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Author Topic: Terminator Franchise.  (Read 2729 times)

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Online Lustful BrideTopic starter

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Terminator Franchise.
« on: November 26, 2014, 03:31:15 PM »
Well..i just learned literally a few seconds ago that the new terminator movie will be a reboot and have double the time travel as all the other movies.

*facepalm* oh my god. Why is it that all the terminator  stuff after T2 has focused solely upon the time travel and made that the focus and not the Human/Terminator war that was raging? 

Why cant we get that grimdark, bleak future war that the first two movies teased us with over and over?

What do you all think and what would you have if you could change the Terminator franchise around?

I would personally want 2 things.

1: more of the future war being the focus.

2; This one theory I heard to be cannon.

In one possibl future timeline, Skynet actually won the war and caused the total extinction of the Human Race. But now, after all is said and done, it slowly feels a constant sense of guilt growing on it that drives the computer system crazy, it is now the sole sentient being on earth and is all alone. Now capable of thinking and feeling it regrets the genocide that it commited and wishes to end its own existence.

There is only one problem. It cannot self terminate.

So instead it creates an elaborate suicide plan by helping the creation of the Human Resistance, even sending forces back in time to help shift the balance of the war and John Connor's rise as a hero and messiah of the Resistance, playing a massive chess game with its past self in order to commit suicide and end its own existence.

Or another theory I heard of that the first time the human machine war raged, there was no John Connor, he was just a pseudonym of someone else or a myth made up to give the soldiers hope and to make them keep fighting the machines, and the actions of the machines set up a self fulfilling prophecy which will make John real and eventually lead to the destruction of Skynet.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 03:33:07 PM by Lustful Bride »

Offline Mathim

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2014, 07:40:07 PM »
Well..i just learned literally a few seconds ago that the new terminator movie will be a reboot and have double the time travel as all the other movies.

*facepalm* oh my god. Why is it that all the terminator  stuff after T2 has focused solely upon the time travel and made that the focus and not the Human/Terminator war that was raging? 

Why cant we get that grimdark, bleak future war that the first two movies teased us with over and over?

What do you all think and what would you have if you could change the Terminator franchise around?

I would personally want 2 things.

1: more of the future war being the focus.

2; This one theory I heard to be cannon.

In one possibl future timeline, Skynet actually won the war and caused the total extinction of the Human Race. But now, after all is said and done, it slowly feels a constant sense of guilt growing on it that drives the computer system crazy, it is now the sole sentient being on earth and is all alone. Now capable of thinking and feeling it regrets the genocide that it commited and wishes to end its own existence.

There is only one problem. It cannot self terminate.

So instead it creates an elaborate suicide plan by helping the creation of the Human Resistance, even sending forces back in time to help shift the balance of the war and John Connor's rise as a hero and messiah of the Resistance, playing a massive chess game with its past self in order to commit suicide and end its own existence.

Or another theory I heard of that the first time the human machine war raged, there was no John Connor, he was just a pseudonym of someone else or a myth made up to give the soldiers hope and to make them keep fighting the machines, and the actions of the machines set up a self fulfilling prophecy which will make John real and eventually lead to the destruction of Skynet.

That last bit is interesting, but for them to know that he had a mother named Sarah is pretty specific for a guy who's just an amalgamation of heroic myths. Not unlike Confucius.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2014, 07:46:48 PM »
I can never get behind Terminator. I've seen all of them and I cannot reconcile the time loop.
Seriously, for the machines to win they didn't have to anything. If they made the time gate and blew it up, they'd win.



Online Lustful BrideTopic starter

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2014, 07:50:16 PM »
That last bit is interesting, but for them to know that he had a mother named Sarah is pretty specific for a guy who's just an amalgamation of heroic myths. Not unlike Confucius.

Yeah, or maybe that was meant as a cover for the real guy and timeloop stuff.....yeah I got nothing.


I can never get behind Terminator. I've seen all of them and I cannot reconcile the time loop.
Seriously, for the machines to win they didn't have to anything. If they made the time gate and blew it up, they'd win.


I know that's why I say I wish that they would focus more on the Machine war and not on the time travel.

Offline Mathim

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2014, 08:00:07 PM »
I can never get behind Terminator. I've seen all of them and I cannot reconcile the time loop.
Seriously, for the machines to win they didn't have to anything. If they made the time gate and blew it up, they'd win.

How do you mean? Because the John Connor we know would never have come from the time-traveling Kyle Reese's sack? Doesn't mean there wouldn't have been another, possibly more effective, John Connor to lead the humans and inspire Skynet to make a time machine to assassinate him. The only thing about it that bothers me is that they didn't send something further back to ensure that things went more favorably for them. I mean, almost every terminator they sent back was able to shape-shift so why not have them pose as certain key people, arrange for a certain Connor family and a few of his future lieutenants' families to be in one place and, just before the bombs launch, ensure they all meet some other grisly end?

I had thought, after the announcement of T3 that they should make another actually IN the future world, but the one the did eventually make...just sucked. So bad. I really don't think they'll succeed with this new one, though. It's really hard to come back from big clusterfucks, just look at Highlander 2.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 08:03:43 PM by Mathim »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2014, 08:05:28 PM »
How do you mean? Because the John Connor we know would never have come from the time-traveling Kyle Reese's sack? Doesn't mean there wouldn't have been another, possibly more effective, John Connor.
There are a million headache inducing things I could point out, but I don't want a headache.

Let's just say that that would cause a branching timeline which means anything is possible anyway and blows up the movie anyway. :P

Offline Mathim

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2014, 08:11:10 PM »
There are a million headache inducing things I could point out, but I don't want a headache.

Let's just say that that would cause a branching timeline which means anything is possible anyway and blows up the movie anyway. :P

Isn't a branching timeline an intrinsic property of time travel, in virtually every story it's used in? (Apart from Back to the Future). That was the least of my concerns. Them attempting to destroy an enormous android by blowing up a gas station around it was just moronic. Since when did fire hurt sturdy metal machinations?

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2014, 08:16:07 PM »
Isn't a branching timeline an intrinsic property of time travel, in virtually every story it's used in? (Apart from Back to the Future). That was the least of my concerns. Them attempting to destroy an enormous android by blowing up a gas station around it was just moronic. Since when did fire hurt sturdy metal machinations?
The only time travel that works is time travel where you can't actually change anything (a la H.G. Wells's book), and that's only from a narrative standpoint. The very concept of time travel generally breaks our understanding of physics. It's literally like a pot of water boiling before any heat source is applied.

Could things change? Yes, but even alternate timelines is basically a literary conceit.

EDIT: Time travel plots where the villain has affected the change are the exception, but that's usually about a group of heroes restoring the original timeline, not causing it to happen.

Does gas fire hurt sturdy metal machinations? All the time. It's called heat fatigue, but I'll believe a new metal alloy compound could be found before I believe you can casually break physics by having the villains lose by winning. :P
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 08:19:56 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Beorning

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2014, 08:20:51 PM »
Isn't a branching timeline an intrinsic property of time travel, in virtually every story it's used in?

Actually, there are a few instances in fiction of time-travel that doesn't change the past... Have you read Heinlein's All You Zombies?

Offline Mathim

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2014, 08:24:38 PM »
The only time travel that works is time travel where you can't actually change anything (a la H.G. Wells's book), and that's only from a narrative standpoint. The very concept of time travel generally breaks our understanding of physics. It's literally like a pot of water boiling before any heat source is applied.

Could things change? Yes, but even alternate timelines is basically a literary conceit.

EDIT: Time travel plots where the villain has affected the change are the exception, but that's usually about a group of heroes restoring the original timeline, not causing it to happen.

Does gas fire hurt sturdy metal machinations? All the time. It's called heat fatigue, but I'll believe a new metal alloy compound could be found before I believe you can casually break physics by having the villains lose by winning. :P

Eh, I'm skeptical about the heat and metal thing, given the controversy about jet fuel temperatures and skyscraper girder melting points. Plus if you're talking about future-super-robots, that's just cranking up the defense of such things. I'd believe an RPG could cause some damage, but not just open flame.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2014, 08:30:29 PM »
I don't argue that they couldn't come up with some new alloy.

Though it should be noted that Cameron's original vision was a human-machine war, but the budget was too small and the effects not there so the time travel plot was slapped in there. :P
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 08:32:05 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Mathim

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2014, 08:38:15 PM »
I don't argue that they couldn't come up with some new alloy.

Though it should be noted that Cameron's original vision was a human-machine war, but the budget was too small and the effects not there so the time travel plot was slapped in there. :P

It works well as far as future-deadly-tech dropped into the middle of present-day America. Still, a well-done human-machine war would be awesome. Better than those Transformers failures.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2014, 12:24:19 AM »
Oh please do not start on Transformers...I do not wish for everything to literally blow up in my face. If there is one thing I could have done with the franchise? Prevented T3 from ever even making the pitch to the board that approved the movie to begin with.

All throughout the second movie we see this constant struggle between fate and freedom. Heck we saw the Terminator evolve from a ruthless killing machine into a father figure for the man that he was originally designed to kill. Then we end the movie with the thought Sky Net is gone and the Terminator dying a changed machine.

Well cue T3 Rise of Machines. Arnold's Terminator was bland, John Connor was pathetic in that movie and didn't come off anywhere near a man willing to lead humanity in a war for survival, and then end the movie by having Judgment Day happen anyway just for the sake of a plot twist.

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2014, 07:19:02 AM »
I can never get behind Terminator. I've seen all of them and I cannot reconcile the time loop.
Seriously, for the machines to win they didn't have to anything. If they made the time gate and blew it up, they'd win.

Incorrect. If Skynet never sent the T-800 to kill Sarah, then it's CPU would never be left in the past and Cyberdyne would never create Skynet.

Online Oniya

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2014, 07:54:47 AM »
So, not only did Skynet 'know' that it had to send the T-800 back, it 'knew' that it had to fail - otherwise the CPU wouldn't have fallen into Cyberdyne's hands.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2014, 08:06:14 AM »
Incorrect. If Skynet never sent the T-800 to kill Sarah, then it's CPU would never be left in the past and Cyberdyne would never create Skynet.
Yeah they tried to put a patch on it, but Oniya highlights only one of the many issues garnered from breaking physics.

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2014, 08:16:44 AM »
So, not only did Skynet 'know' that it had to send the T-800 back, it 'knew' that it had to fail - otherwise the CPU wouldn't have fallen into Cyberdyne's hands.

If that were the case, then Skynet would also know that sending the T-800 to die and allow itself to be born will also lead to it's ultimate demise, making it's actions worthless.

Yeah, time travel is weird. The comics fell victim to redundant time loops as well, but also tended to solve a lot of the problems people had with the films, like why Skynet never used chemical weapons, why Skynet uses infiltration units when it can just destroy any human settlement through brute force, why Skynet even attacked in the first place. I'd recommend the Dark Horse Onmibus collection.

Also, this happens.



This is how a purely logical machine repairs itself with motorcycle chrome. Because.


Online Lustful BrideTopic starter

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2014, 04:02:25 PM »
Well the trailer came out for the new Terminator movie.....I don't really like it. It started well with a terminator battle in the future but...then...it just slowly wore me down.

I hate how they only care about time travel and rebooting the series now.


Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2014, 01:43:38 AM »
I am a massive Terminator fan, and... I actually kind of like the trailer.



For one, it doesn't give me the cliff notes of the entire plot like most trailers. I have questions, and I want to see the movie to get answers.

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2014, 01:47:39 AM »
I hope that at least the future war scene in the beginning is 30 minutes long, or 15 minutes, if I get that I can be happy and take the time travel paradoxes better.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2014, 07:13:23 AM »
Not a reboot in the strictest sense, more of an alternate timeline.

I'm already feeling the twinges of a headache. XD

Offline Valaesin

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2014, 08:25:34 AM »
Not a reboot in the strictest sense, more of an alternate timeline.

I'm already feeling the twinges of a headache. XD

I think this is the single thing I like most about this "reboot".  For the first part of the trailer, you're going "Yeah, yeah, we know.  Go back in time.  Protect Sarah.  Then get the whoopie on with her so you're born.  I get it."  And then the truck comes ramming through the store and its Sarah, already kicking butt, and everything has changed.  I can't wait to see this and learn what happened.  Someone done screwed up the timeline!

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2014, 08:30:41 AM »
I agree. I actually want to see what they do with this. I was ready to be disappointed when I loaded the trailer, and the movie might end up disappointing me any way, but I actually have some hope now.

I mean, it can't be worse then Salvation...

Then again, it could have the friggen T-Infinity model.

Offline Valaesin

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2014, 08:44:49 AM »
I mean, it can't be worse then Salvation...

If this movie stinks, I'm going to have to find you and make sure you pay for jinxing the movie.  Never say stuff like that!

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2014, 07:14:51 PM »
Y loved the Termynator franchyse, and thys just depresses me. 1 - Great, 2 - Good, 3 - Decent, 4 - Awful - so  5- Genysys wyll be absolutely terryble.