What's in the news?

[Tolvo]

“I admire the very generous and compassionate approaches that were taken particularly by leaders like Angela Merkel, but I think it is fair to say Europe has done its part, and must send a very clear message – ‘we are not going to be able to continue provide refuge and support’ – because if we don’t deal with the migration issue it will continue to roil the body politic.”

I did read the article I posted. And she is specifically talking about appeasing fascists in the EU. It is an interview about how to combat "Right Wing Populism" that amounts to "Just give them what they want."

And no I don't think everyone to the right of me is a Nazi. Thank you though for making such an assumption about me for some reason.

[Icelandic]

“I admire the very generous and compassionate approaches that were taken particularly by leaders like Angela Merkel, but I think it is fair to say Europe has done its part, and must send a very clear message – ‘we are not going to be able to continue provide refuge and support’ – because if we don’t deal with the migration issue it will continue to roil the body politic.”

I did read the article I posted. And she is specifically talking about appeasing fascists in the EU. It is an interview about how to combat "Right Wing Populism" that amounts to "Just give them what they want."

And no I don't think everyone to the right of me is a Nazi. Thank you though for making such an assumption about me for some reason.

Outside of the Golden Dawn party in Greece, there are literally no other fascist parties of note in the EU. You don't know what fascism is.

The idea of straightening Europe's borders after the migrant crisis is a moderate idea that the majority of Europeans want. You can't just go around dismissing whatever argument comes your way as being 'fascist' because you don't have any better argument. Veksied talked to you about this. Extremists who demonize moderate and reasonable ideas push those people to further extremes themselves.

[Tolvo]

You understand a country in Europe doesn't have to have a leading political party in government that call themselves outright fascists for there to be fascists and fascist movements in that country right? Modern fascism is typically characterized as being anti-immigration, pro nationalism, pro-populist, pro authoritarian, anti communist, and anti socialist. There are other factors, but those are big factors. Also the UK alone has the British National Party, Britain First, English Defense League, and UKIP are also fascist leaning.

Right Wing Populism is very fascist.

Populism itself isn't, and technically you can be a right wing populist who is not a fascist, but by and large they are very fascist.

I am calling things by the terms as they are commonly used by people who understand them and the history of their use. And I point out what those things are actually called and often why.

[Icelandic]

You understand a country in Europe doesn't have to have a leading political party in government that call themselves outright fascists for there to be fascists and fascist movements in that country right? Modern fascism is typically characterized as being anti-immigration, pro nationalism, pro-populist, pro authoritarian, anti communist, and anti socialist. There are other factors, but those are big factors. Also the UK alone has the British National Party, Britain First, English Defense League, and UKIP are also fascist leaning.

Right Wing Populism is very fascist.

Populism itself isn't, and technically you can be a right wing populist who is not a fascist, but by and large they are very fascist.

I am calling things by the terms as they are commonly used by people who understand them and the history of their use. And I point out what those things are actually called and often why.

Nope. Fascism is the belief in a one-party ethno-state that utilizes a mixed, planned economy and autarky to develop itself. Beyond that, Fascism also requires a belief in a strongman leader in order to guide the state that is inseparable to the individual.

Fascism does not equal right wing, or even right wing populism. In fact, fascism has always been VERY anti-populist in practice.

Also, you believe that taxes are necessary? Then you are a socialist. You see how stupid that argument sounds? You are using the same kind of argument. And yes, you don't need to call yourself a fascist to be one, but that still does not mean that you have any idea of what fascism actually looks like.

[RedEve]

Extremists who demonize moderate and reasonable ideas push those people to further extremes themselves.

I don't buy this idea, it basically translates as "give xenophobes what they want, or else".

[Icelandic]

I don't buy this idea, it basically translates as "give xenophobes what they want, or else".

Except a lot of the people calling for moderate reforms are not xenophobes.

[RedEve]

Except a lot of the people calling for moderate reforms are not xenophobes.

The tone of the moderate reformers can be pretty xenophobic. When it quacks like a duck...

[Tolvo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-fascism

I mean, I know you like wikipedia so here you go. If you want to you can read about modern fascism, also called Neo-Fascism, and what they believe. You can do more research on it if you want, but I'll try to stick to using the terms and what they mean like I've been working to do. If you want to discuss ideologies more might go better in the thread about ideologies. But honestly I'm kind of tired of someone posting factually inaccurate statements while trying to slander me.

[TheGlyphstone]

While it's more a philosophical point than directly related to this argument, how frequently do people voluntarily acknowledge themselves as extremist/non-moderate? It's been my experience that most people tend to define 'moderate' as being within a small band around their own position, with anyone outside of that being unreasonable/extreme.

[Tolvo]

Yeah pretty much everyone calls themselves moderates since extremist has a very negative connotation. Like a lot of people are extreme about good things, a lot of people are extreme about things also. And you might not support a good thing because you're too moderate about it. Like there are 1st Amendment extremists, even though a lot of people would consider that a good thing the word extremist makes people view that as in line with terrorists. This is though because extremes generally disturb the status quo, and terrorist groups are generally extremists wholesale because you don't really blow up something because "I sort of believe in it."

[Icelandic]

While it's more a philosophical point than directly related to this argument, how frequently do people voluntarily acknowledge themselves as extremist/non-moderate? It's been my experience that most people tend to define 'moderate' as being within a small band around their own position, with anyone outside of that being unreasonable/extreme.

You are probably right. I think it's important however to define groups using ideas that are not especially tied to their own ideologies. It's likely an impossible task, but one that we need to push for unless we have people like Tolvo deciding who is a fascist or not. And I don't really trust an antifa sympathizer with that job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-fascism

I mean, I know you like wikipedia so here you go. If you want to you can read about modern fascism, also called Neo-Fascism, and what they believe. You can do more research on it if you want, but I'll try to stick to using the terms and what they mean like I've been working to do. If you want to discuss ideologies more might go better in the thread about ideologies. But honestly I'm kind of tired of someone posting factually inaccurate statements while trying to slander me.

That link literally is just supporting my argument.

And it's not my fault that you can't understand your own arguments when I repeat them to you. Maybe that's a sign that your beliefs are not formed on solid ground?

Also, stop crying about 'muh slander'. In our first conversation you accused me of spreading nazi propaganda. And that whole conversation had to stop because you were refusing to accept my explanations for my beliefs.

Let me ask. What conservative groups or parties are you aware of that are not far-right or fascist?

The tone of the moderate reformers can be pretty xenophobic. When it quacks like a duck...

Xenophobia is not moderate though. If a 'moderate' reformer is acting like that, then they are not moderate.

I'm curious. What parties or groups do you consider to be fascist?

[RedRose]

Some people consider Front National fascistic. In that case, most countries have an equivalent. That said, I think all parties or almost in Europe agree that there are problems caused by unvetted immigration.

I laughed, but this isn't funny. It's just… no word. Too many crazies.
Cops discovered a mummified arm, WWII guns, autopsy pics, a dead piglet (and not fun at all, babies) in a "satanist and sado maso decor". Reminds me of the guy who kept a rocket launcher and a lion at home, just more fucked up.
http://www.europe1.fr/faits-divers/deux-foetus-et-un-bebe-momifie-decouverts-dans-un-appartement-a-paris-3805589

[Tolvo]

I said you used a white nationalist talking point. I didn't even call you a Neo-Nazi and still haven't.

But you are making a lot of personal attacks on me and claiming I believe things I don't and that I'm a someone who shouldn't be listened to because I support anti-fascist ideology. Also we've had a lot of non-fascist right wing parties and governments, recently we have had a spike in fascist ones. The modern republican in the USA was less extreme before Donald Trump and until he leaves office we don't know how it will go for them for example, whether they'll go harder right or further towards the center.

Now I'll please ask that you stop lying about me and insulting me.

https://apnews.com/6dbebae486064291bccd840bca1ab996?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP

Oh yeah I meant to post this a few days ago but in case anyone hasn't already seen the CDC warning on Romaine Lettuce.

[Icelandic]

No. You explicitly said that my argument was neo-nazi propaganda, and you even said that my argument did not belong on E. You also said that I was advocating for protections for the privileged when I explicitly told you multiple times that I was not doing that, and then you said you did not believe me for some reason.

Stop crying about how much I 'lie' about you.

[Icelandic]

oh lol wut I quoted my own post.

[TheGlyphstone]

https://apnews.com/6dbebae486064291bccd840bca1ab996?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP

Oh yeah I meant to post this a few days ago but in case anyone hasn't already seen the CDC warning on Romaine Lettuce.

I heard about this yesterday in the store. Good thing i don't eat lettuce.

[Icelandic]

I heard about this yesterday in the store. Good thing i don't eat lettuce.

But ya gotta. It's good for you.

[Tolvo]

I quite like lettuce, though not as big on Romaine. Some nice dried cranberry and bleu cheese as well as cucumber and grape tomato and you got yourself a meal.

https://www.salon.com/2018/11/21/ohio-republicans-declare-motherhood-necessary-want-to-make-it-mandatory

Oh yeah if anyone hasn't seen the anti-abortion news lately, warning the headline is a bit misleading that is not official legislation, they probably want that, but are focusing on abortion rights currently and one member simply said that.

[TheGlyphstone]

The only lettuce I can tolerate is iceberg because it's crunchy, but even then it's iffy. My ideal salad has no leafy greens in it at all.

[Icelandic]

The only lettuce I can tolerate is iceberg because it's crunchy, but even then it's iffy. My ideal salad has no leafy greens in it at all.

... What salads have no leafy greens?

[TheGlyphstone]

... What salads have no leafy greens?

Pasta salad comes to mind. Potato salad too, but that stuff is nastier than green salad.s

[Icelandic]

Pasta salad comes to mind. Potato salad too, but that stuff is nastier than green salad.s

Oh yea that shit's nasty.

Also because I fucking love Lamborghinis: https://carbuzz.com/news/lamborghini-aventador-and-huracan-successors-will-be-plug-in-hybrids1

The next generation Aventador and Huracans are gunna be hybrids.

[Tolvo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGwmZq2XVdc

Also does it count as news that we got to see Goku in the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade? Frankly I consider it important. And something something international politics Goku!

[TheGlyphstone]

Eh. The Macy's Day parade hit its peak when Rick Astley personally rickrolled everyone watching it. Ever since then it's been downhill.

[Tolvo]

B-but Goku

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/22/politics/house-judiciary-committee-james-comey-loretta-lynch/index.html

Also looks like subpoenas for James Comey and others are coming, despite his willingness to talk on record in the open rather than behind closed doors, but they want to control what gets out it seems like.