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Author Topic: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.  (Read 35278 times)

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Offline Dashenka

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2013, 10:23:39 AM »
And that is why I think the Islam is more tolerant than Christianity. The islam acknowledges other religions whereas Christianity is the ONLY right way to go for Christians.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2013, 10:27:58 AM »
I'm not sure how that reconciles with what Formless just said?

However , For Muslims , they believe and are taught that Christianity was the previous holy religion , and Judaism before it. Since to a Muslim , these are all religions brought down by God himself. So for me , I see a Christian & a Jewish , as another who worships my own god , in a different manner. But that is not the case since Muslims are also taught that Islam came down and ' cancelled ' every other religion. Making it the only true religion for this era.

It looks to me as though both religions (Christianity and Islam) are claiming the same thing.  ???

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2013, 10:32:49 AM »
And that is why I think the Islam is more tolerant than Christianity. The islam acknowledges other religions whereas Christianity is the ONLY right way to go for Christians.


I think it is because Christiany was born before Islam. You can understand how some may not believe in Islam because they were already following God's word. Some chooses to deny the ' new ' faith because it is new and not what they grew up to know. And that is a natural human instinct. Yet sins are one and the same in these religions. Of course you cannot force the old faith to acknowledge the new one. You can only show how appealing and harmonious each faith is to appease to the other.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2013, 10:34:46 AM »
It looks to me as though both religions (Christianity and Islam) are claiming the same thing.  ???

Really? The way I phrased the bolded text was how we Muslims were taught. It hardly applies in the same format to Christianity since it was already there a thousand years before Islam was born.

Perhaps what I mentioned in response to Dashenka would show my own view about this.

Offline alextaylor

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2013, 09:41:22 PM »
That raises the question of ' So why did god change the way people worships him? ' I have yet to know that myself. And any Islamic teacher consider it a sin to question such a thing. As for other religions , they do not believe that Islam is a holy religion to begin with , rendering it a moot point to discuss that question with them.

There's not really much controversy about that, it's been strongly hinted at 1:7. 'The ones who have evoked [Your] anger' refers to the Jews (who are not necessarily astray). 'The ones who are astray' refers to the Christians and the Trinity, as Islam is strictly monotheistic. Also if you look at it historically, Islam was established in a region where people were highly polytheistic, but also worshiped Allah.

Also I recall something an Islamic teacher said that "Jesus and Moses was sent to Israel, whereas Muhammad was sent for the world".

Offline Kythia

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2013, 10:08:50 PM »
There's not really much controversy about that, it's been strongly hinted at 1:7. 'The ones who have evoked [Your] anger' refers to the Jews (who are not necessarily astray). 'The ones who are astray' refers to the Christians and the Trinity, as Islam is strictly monotheistic. Also if you look at it historically, Islam was established in a region where people were highly polytheistic, but also worshiped Allah.

And not just the trinity.  Veneration of saints and various Marian cults were in full swing by that point.  Christianity must have looked, from an outsider's point of view, polytheistic in all but name.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2013, 10:24:56 PM »
And not just the trinity.  Veneration of saints and various Marian cults were in full swing by that point.  Christianity must have looked, from an outsider's point of view, polytheistic in all but name.

Someone made an interesting point to me about the struggle against arianism back in the fourth century, just after the church had triumphed in the Roman empire. The feud really shook the Christian church from inside and the efforts to rebuff Arius' teachings have often been derided in modern times, cast as a big brawl of ignorant monks and powerhungry, hellbent bishops and their mobs of people knocking each other about - but it was an essential struggle. The basic idea of the Arians was that Jesus had not been fully human at all, his divine nature was the only one that really mattered, but the god was cloaked as a human. That would have cast him as a demigod really, someone like Hercules or Orion, a truly pagan concept.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 10:26:37 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2013, 05:53:44 AM »
There's not really much controversy about that, it's been strongly hinted at 1:7. 'The ones who have evoked [Your] anger' refers to the Jews (who are not necessarily astray). 'The ones who are astray' refers to the Christians and the Trinity, as Islam is strictly monotheistic. Also if you look at it historically, Islam was established in a region where people were highly polytheistic, but also worshiped Allah.

Also I recall something an Islamic teacher said that "Jesus and Moses was sent to Israel, whereas Muhammad was sent for the world".

During the time when Mohammad was born. People worshipped ... Idols ( Lack of vocabulary had me choose this word ) They believed Allah was there , just never worshipped him directly , and instead worshipped these idols in hope they would send their prayers to God.

Now in regards to Jesus and Moses , that is true. Well , true based on what we're told. That still brings up questions that no one can answer while keeping their ' faith ' strong in God.

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2013, 06:14:19 AM »
Now in regards to Jesus and Moses , that is true. Well , true based on what we're told. That still brings up questions that no one can answer while keeping their ' faith ' strong in God.

True, though the mission of Christ was very soon understood to be aimed at all mankind. No big news for anyone here I'm sure, that most Christians have held (and still believe) that Jesus saw himself as a man sent to save all men, "the new Adam" as it was put later.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

-Matthew 28:19 (traditionally seen as the next-to-last words before ascension)

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

- Paul to the Christians of Galatia, 3:28. Jews and Greeks (those coming to the Lord from the gentiles/pagans), slaves and free, men and women are equal before God.

"
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 06:15:54 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2013, 10:07:28 AM »
There has always been a Prophet. Or perhaps we should call them , Messengers of God.

Noah being the first. In Islam , every Prophet was sent to a certain group , or perhaps a Nation? Except for Mohammad who was sent to the whole world. And the same can be said about every Messenger. Though the means to confirm it lies within your ' faith ' to do so. Is your faith strong enough to acknowledge that or deny it?

Offline ladia2287

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2013, 09:57:58 PM »
Thank you for this insight Formless. I have met many of Islamic faith and I have always endeavoured to increase my understanding of the religion, particularly as several of my staff are Muslim and so I need to be mindful of certain religious and cultural expectations that may cause distress if they are not allowed to be followed.

I am one of a fortunate few in my area whose education about Islam has been balanced and unbiased, and so I am more knowledgeable than many non-Muslims I know, but I am always eager to understand better.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2013, 12:16:09 AM »
So I read that Ibadi Islam is a distinct form of Islam, most practiced in modern-day Oman.  It mentioned 3 major doctrinal differences with Sunni Islam, but I was wondering if anyone here can further elaborate on the differences as well as its development and history.

Offline littlerooster

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2013, 02:42:00 AM »
And that is why I think the Islam is more tolerant than Christianity. The islam acknowledges other religions whereas Christianity is the ONLY right way to go for Christians.

Are you serious?

Look at recent history, the Turks committed genocide on the non Muslim Armenians, in the Middle East the Muslim Lebanese killed and drove out the Lebanese Christians, Egyptian Coptic Christians are still persecuted to this day, in Pakistan Christians are discriminated against, even in the West Muslims wage war against non Muslims in various way, lets not forget the Taliban in Afghanistan, Muslims in Indonesia who routinely are violent against non Muslims and Muslims who do not share their perspective, then there are the fights between Shiite Muslims and Sunni Muslims, so it is obvious they cannot even tolerate each other let alone outside religions.

Let us also note that non Muslims have to pay a tax to live in a Muslim country.

Offline ladia2287

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2013, 02:55:51 AM »
Are you serious?

Look at recent history, the Turks committed genocide on the non Muslim Armenians, in the Middle East the Muslim Lebanese killed and drove out the Lebanese Christians, Egyptian Coptic Christians are still persecuted to this day, in Pakistan Christians are discriminated against, even in the West Muslims wage war against non Muslims in various way, lets not forget the Taliban in Afghanistan, Muslims in Indonesia who routinely are violent against non Muslims and Muslims who do not share their perspective, then there are the fights between Shiite Muslims and Sunni Muslims, so it is obvious they cannot even tolerate each other let alone outside religions.

Let us also note that non Muslims have to pay a tax to live in a Muslim country.

And Christians and Jews alike have also heavily persecuted each other and those of the Muslim faith. And I'm sure that even Muslims have to pay taxes in Muslim countries, just the same as citizens of other countries pay tax. You're discussing politics rather than religion littlerooster. And yes, even various branches of Christianity cannot live together in harmony, so do not single out Islam when other faiths are guilty of the same faults, if not worse.

As far as I can gather, Islam, like every other religion widely practised, has fractured and split over time, in much the same way as the Christian and Jewish sects as differences in interpretation have emerged, and like many Western leaders, I'm sure there have been Islamic leaders who have twisted the Qu'ran for their own ends.

I can't comment very specifically on these various sects, but as I understand the two oldest and best known are Sunni and Shi'a, referred to sometimes as Shi'ite. Every sect, naturally, believes that their interpretation of Islam is the true and correct way, as the Prophet intended Allah's followers to live and worship, just as Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, etc Christians believe that their version of Christian teaching is correct.

I believe it is generally understood that Sunni is the equivalent of 'orthodox' Islam. It's followers keep the teachings of the Qu'ran as close to word for word as possible. It is my understanding that Sunni Islam teaches benevolence and tolerance as wise qualities to possess, which may in part explain their more accepting attitude towards non-Muslims.

Shi'a Islam is a branch-off of the original, Sunni Islam. This most well-know sect split off from the main faith after disagreements regarding who should succeed the Prophet in spreading the word of Islam and enforcing its teachings, much in the same way that the Protestant Church split away from the Catholic Church. As far as I am aware there are no major differences in belief between the two but differing interpretations of certain aspects of the Qu'ran have resulted in different practises.

Another sect is known as Ba'ath Islam, which fundamentally believes, unless my sources are mistaken, that all Islamic countries should unite to become one, all-inclusive Muslim nation. The well-known Iraqi President Saddam Hussein claimed to be of this sect, though my personal opinion is that he merely exploited the growing Ba'ath movement to justify his invasion of Kuwait in the first Gulf War.

That's the extent of my current knowledge without delving into my books for more detailed answers. Naturally if anything I have said is incorrect I welcome feedback on that.

Offline littlerooster

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2013, 03:50:51 AM »
And Christians and Jews alike have also heavily persecuted each other and those of the Muslim faith. And I'm sure that even Muslims have to pay taxes in Muslim countries, just the same as citizens of other countries pay tax.

You missed several of my points, for a start non Muslims in Muslim countries pay a tax for NOT being Muslim, this is a special tax additional to all the other taxes that would apply to everyone.

As it seems Islamic countries are a mess and the followers of Islam prove their violence time and again I will repeat, Islam is not a tolerant religion.

Offline ladia2287

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2013, 04:08:15 AM »
And so-called Christian countries are not a mess? As for violence, what would you call the atrocities of European countries against civilians whose faith differs from that of the masses of their population? Again, you're confusing politics with religion. Just because the politicians of Muslim countries exercise no better political judgement than the politicians of largely Christian and Jewish countries does not mean you should paint all Muslims with the same brush and declare that the religion is intolerant as a whole.

A country is entitled to levy any taxes and laws it likes, so long as they do not impede on the laws of another sovereign nation or result in a breach of UN protocols. Muslim countries impose laws that are designed to strictly implement the laws set down in the Qu'ran; the imposition of an extra tax on non-Muslims may appear unethical but is that really any reason to paint the entire religion as an evil, intolerant thing? Those who twist the Qu'ran's teachings to justify violence against others are, by the very nature of Islam, committing a sin as any well-educated Muslim could tell you.

By your logic, one could declare that all Christians are evil and prone to violence and exploitation against non-Christians, owing to the behaviour of groups such as the Nazis and the KKK, both of which twisted religion to suit their own ends.

Offline littlerooster

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2013, 04:37:22 AM »
And so-called Christian countries are not a mess? As for violence, what would you call the atrocities of European countries against civilians whose faith differs from that of the masses of their population? Again, you're confusing politics with religion. Just because the politicians of Muslim countries exercise no better political judgement than the politicians of largely Christian and Jewish countries does not mean you should paint all Muslims with the same brush and declare that the religion is intolerant as a whole.

A country is entitled to levy any taxes and laws it likes, so long as they do not impede on the laws of another sovereign nation or result in a breach of UN protocols. Muslim countries impose laws that are designed to strictly implement the laws set down in the Qu'ran; the imposition of an extra tax on non-Muslims may appear unethical but is that really any reason to paint the entire religion as an evil, intolerant thing? Those who twist the Qu'ran's teachings to justify violence against others are, by the very nature of Islam, committing a sin as any well-educated Muslim could tell you.

By your logic, one could declare that all Christians are evil and prone to violence and exploitation against non-Christians, owing to the behaviour of groups such as the Nazis and the KKK, both of which twisted religion to suit their own ends.

Why do I feel that if this was Christians especially White Christians imposing taxes on a specific group you would be up in arms? I do feel that you are jumping on the Politically Correct band wagon and trying to support Muslims when in reality they would very much like to see the West crumble.

And the people of Islamic countries are the ones who carry out the atrocities, so again it is not a case of separating politics and religion, especially as Islam is a form of politics in itself.

I really do feel you need to acquaint yourself with current events and recent history, Islam is a serious threat to anyone who actually believes in freedom and peace.

   

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2013, 05:32:58 AM »
Skynet
So I read that Ibadi Islam is a distinct form of Islam, most practiced in modern-day Oman.  It mentioned 3 major doctrinal differences with Sunni Islam, but I was wondering if anyone here can further elaborate on the differences as well as its development and history.

Skynet , I am not very familiar with the concept. But basically the Ibadi is hardly a branch of it. They were formed based on the controversies that surfaced after the death of Mohammad , and no one was there to solve it.

The one and grandest controversy was a group of Mohammad's followers claimed that the Qur'an was ' created ' rather than spoken. Every Muslim is taught that the Qur'an is ' God's words '. So by saying that it was created they brought forth a conundrum ( I did not find a better word , sorry. ) Now many of Mohammad's followers stood up to that claim. However , those claimers never refrained from taking that idea into their own faith , simply because the Prophet ' Mohammad ' is no more to disprove them.

That is the basis of their foundation and critical difference between them and any other Islamic branch. Though Muslims do not really count them as true Muslims , but that is not the case nowadays. As Oman is a Neighbouring country to mine and there's a relationship of ' brotherhood ' between the two nations.

There are other different basics to their faiths. For example to the Ibadi , you can ' believe ' in god , but you do not have to follow his orders. Practicing prayers and anything else is ' optional ' to them. Unlike the rest of the branches were you're considered a sinner and you must repent.

Another difference is how they view other branches. They view them as ' heathens ' , but they are allowed to mingle and interact with them because God will be the one to punish them and not human kind.

They do not believe in the after life , however , this concept is quite vague and I could never find a reliable source to explain it.

To a non Muslim , this branch may seem the most ' laid back ' and best kind of Islam. But as stated in several posts , Muslims tend to take their faith seriously and saying the Qur'an is created means that you do not believe Islam.

The reason behind this controversy is said to be because if Qur'an is created , that means it is a creature , thus giving someone an excuse to ' worship ' it. By the time Mohammad was born and became a profit , people still worshipped ' idols '. So Mohammad's followers feared that the same might happen to the Qur'an.

I hope that helps.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2013, 05:43:22 AM »
Ladia2287
And Christians and Jews alike have also heavily persecuted each other and those of the Muslim faith. And I'm sure that even Muslims have to pay taxes in Muslim countries, just the same as citizens of other countries pay tax. You're discussing politics rather than religion littlerooster. And yes, even various branches of Christianity cannot live together in harmony, so do not single out Islam when other faiths are guilty of the same faults, if not worse.

As far as I can gather, Islam, like every other religion widely practised, has fractured and split over time, in much the same way as the Christian and Jewish sects as differences in interpretation have emerged, and like many Western leaders, I'm sure there have been Islamic leaders who have twisted the Qu'ran for their own ends.

I can't comment very specifically on these various sects, but as I understand the two oldest and best known are Sunni and Shi'a, referred to sometimes as Shi'ite. Every sect, naturally, believes that their interpretation of Islam is the true and correct way, as the Prophet intended Allah's followers to live and worship, just as Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, etc Christians believe that their version of Christian teaching is correct.

I believe it is generally understood that Sunni is the equivalent of 'orthodox' Islam. It's followers keep the teachings of the Qu'ran as close to word for word as possible. It is my understanding that Sunni Islam teaches benevolence and tolerance as wise qualities to possess, which may in part explain their more accepting attitude towards non-Muslims.

Shi'a Islam is a branch-off of the original, Sunni Islam. This most well-know sect split off from the main faith after disagreements regarding who should succeed the Prophet in spreading the word of Islam and enforcing its teachings, much in the same way that the Protestant Church split away from the Catholic Church. As far as I am aware there are no major differences in belief between the two but differing interpretations of certain aspects of the Qu'ran have resulted in different practises.

Another sect is known as Ba'ath Islam, which fundamentally believes, unless my sources are mistaken, that all Islamic countries should unite to become one, all-inclusive Muslim nation. The well-known Iraqi President Saddam Hussein claimed to be of this sect, though my personal opinion is that he merely exploited the growing Ba'ath movement to justify his invasion of Kuwait in the first Gulf War.

That's the extent of my current knowledge without delving into my books for more detailed answers. Naturally if anything I have said is incorrect I welcome feedback on that.

What you said is true , however one thing I'd like to clarify.

The Ba'ath movement , or ' League ' . Its not a sect or a branch as much as it is a movement.

Their called ' Hizb ' which usually means ' League '. The same as Hizb Allah. Its is a league that follows the Shi'ah branch. As for the Ba'ath , it is the strongest ' political ' group in Iraq. Now as to Saddam being one of them I cannot really say. As this will delve into a political side and I WILL NOT link religion with politics.

Thank you for your input though. A delight to see someone so understanding. :-)

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2013, 05:50:40 AM »
Littlerooster: I will speak for my country when I say , no one pays a tax in Saudi Arabia for being a non-muslim. The only thing you'll pay for if you plan to live there is the renewal of your ' residency permit ' , which is the equivalent of a ' Visa ' in most countries across the world.

I will not speak for Egyptians , I will not speak for Indonesians , I will not speak for any other country for how they treat their civilians or their guests.

As for Islam being intolerant , it is. Muslims being intolerant? That is up to the person. You have your views about Islam , and they are your own views. I won't defend any Muslim , because what they do is their own personal deed and it is not mine to harbor or encourage. I speak for myself when I say that I see the world one individual at a time and not as a group.

I hope this will clarify the issues at hand.

Offline ladia2287

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2013, 06:04:56 AM »
Ladia2287

What you said is true , however one thing I'd like to clarify.

The Ba'ath movement , or ' League ' . Its not a sect or a branch as much as it is a movement.

Their called ' Hizb ' which usually means ' League '. The same as Hizb Allah. Its is a league that follows the Shi'ah branch. As for the Ba'ath , it is the strongest ' political ' group in Iraq. Now as to Saddam being one of them I cannot really say. As this will delve into a political side and I WILL NOT link religion with politics.

Thank you for your input though. A delight to see someone so understanding. :-)

As someone who has several Muslim employees, I find it to my advantage to try to broaden my understanding of the religion as much as possible. Plus, I am fascinated by Arabic culture and history and a sound knowledge of Islam is part of that. I cannot profess to know everything about it but I have found that it helps make life easier to try to understand the religious and cultural implications of certain things for someone of Islamic faith. Plus, from what I can understand the teachings of Muhammed are not so different from the teachings of the earlier prophets of the Bible and the Torah. It is simply that the reception and interpretation of these teachings are different, because the people receiving them in the beginning have different circumstances.

I try to live by the doctrine that what other people believe is their own business, as is their relationship with God. I accept other people's religious beliefs on the condition that they accept mine :)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 06:06:30 AM by ladia2287 »

Offline ladia2287

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2013, 06:34:41 AM »
Why do I feel that if this was Christians especially White Christians imposing taxes on a specific group you would be up in arms? I do feel that you are jumping on the Politically Correct band wagon and trying to support Muslims when in reality they would very much like to see the West crumble.

And the people of Islamic countries are the ones who carry out the atrocities, so again it is not a case of separating politics and religion, especially as Islam is a form of politics in itself.

I really do feel you need to acquaint yourself with current events and recent history, Islam is a serious threat to anyone who actually believes in freedom and peace.

 

I am actually a qualified historian who knows how to get my facts straight before presenting an argument. All you're doing, littlerooster, is repeating biased and ill-informed propaganda. I have actually studied Christian history in depth as well as Arabic history so I find it insulting that you belittle my arguments with such petty comments. Try researching from a reliable source (such as an actual, properly devout Muslim. Maybe even try reading the Qur'an yourself) before you spout wild, bigoted claims that don't even remotely bear any resemblance to the truth and bully those who are actually reasonably well-educated simply because they point out the flaws in your claims.

Offline Dashenka

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2013, 06:43:47 AM »
Why do I feel that if this was Christians especially White Christians imposing taxes on a specific group you would be up in arms? I do feel that you are jumping on the Politically Correct band wagon and trying to support Muslims when in reality they would very much like to see the West crumble.

And the people of Islamic countries are the ones who carry out the atrocities, so again it is not a case of separating politics and religion, especially as Islam is a form of politics in itself.

I really do feel you need to acquaint yourself with current events and recent history, Islam is a serious threat to anyone who actually believes in freedom and peace.

 

The intolerant muslims I know are intolerant about the same things Christians are intolerant towards. It's called Religion. Both Christianity and Islam are intolerant religions, but of the two, in my view and what I know from it, Islam is the most tolerant of the two.

In fact I wish that my girlfriend would still practice the Islam because I think it's very interesting religion from a very interesting region of the world.

Offline Kythia

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2013, 05:10:38 PM »
Littlerooster: I will speak for my country when I say , no one pays a tax in Saudi Arabia for being a non-muslim. The only thing you'll pay for if you plan to live there is the renewal of your ' residency permit ' , which is the equivalent of a ' Visa ' in most countries across the world.

I will not speak for Egyptians , I will not speak for Indonesians , I will not speak for any other country for how they treat their civilians or their guests.

No tax for non-Muslims in Pakistan either. 

Offline Oniya

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2013, 05:33:07 PM »
Ahem.  It's been very refreshing how civil this thread has been.  While differing viewpoints are not discouraged, phrasing your viewpoints in a civil manner is still required by Elliquiy's rules.