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Author Topic: Will feminism really bring women happiness?  (Read 9182 times)

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Offline Ack Arg

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #200 on: March 12, 2013, 01:09:45 PM »
 
I'd like to propose that perhaps the divorce rate didn't 'skyrocket' so much as simply was legalized and recognized. The 'skyrocketing' may be reflective of what portion of society as a whole already had failed marriages.

Marriage is work. I think Eugene Levy said that in a movie. And since lots of that work is biologically determined to be lumped on one side, (taking out the garbage, keeping the money safe, killing spiders) it's not surprising there's a lot of tension in the workplace.

Some people seem to do the marriage thing well. I'm sure someone is doing experiments with those people using a particle accelerator and will one day learn why and give us a pill for that but for now it's a mystery.

Ah, but would we trade the spiffitude of women being people for the contentment of order? No more than we'd trade our schizoid democracy for the order of obeying a king. Well, actually us Canadians haven't tossed out our queeny bits yet but we'll get around to it eventually. We will. Just as soon as there's nothing good on TV.

Hate to say it but feminism did more for men than it did for women just like civil rights did more for white folks than it did for black. If not for feminism, I'd be a (slightly larger) bigot than I am now. I'm not about to give that up just because it's going to make the geese happier to have me treat them like the baby machines they are.


Jokes aside:
I think feminism has and continues to make us more more civilized. When problems come up we sort them out as best we can. If one of those problems is militant manhaters ("From Mars!" injects a friend over my shoulder,) then it's one of them problems. I don't think it is, or at least, it's still a really small problem compared to other ones.


Michael Bay is a cheap shot, as is Disney, but here's one of those things that shows how deep this sort of thing goes. I've been reading feminists for years I'm still getting head slapping revelations about how oblivious I am.

[noembed]http://www.flickfilosopher.com/blog/2012/07/dr_seuss_the_lorax_review.html[/noembed]

Huh, yeah, the protagonist is superfluous. Never noticed that.

I think I'm rather happy to have a Martian or two around, they've got something I want. Even if that means they dent my doors at the supermarket while they try to park their flying saucers... what am I even talking about at this point?

Right.

Ack Arg say Feminist Critique of Western Civilization good. Ack Arg want more Martians, not less.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 09:28:27 PM by Ack Arg »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #201 on: March 12, 2013, 02:43:03 PM »
Marriage is work. I think Eugene Levy said that in a movie. And since lots of that work is biologically determined to be lumped on one side, (taking out the garbage, keeping the money safe, killing spiders) it's not surprising there's a lot of tension in the workplace.

Yeah, it's amazing how fast the garbage, overdue bills and cobwebs would pile up if I didn't do any of that.  (Although, I do prefer the 'catch and release' technique in most cases.)  ;)

Offline Trieste

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Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #202 on: March 12, 2013, 03:32:10 PM »
I was just reading that thinking, "That's a joke, right? Surely that's a joke."

Offline Bandita

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #203 on: March 12, 2013, 04:14:36 PM »
First off, I notice that the author above who double-typed has been unapproved.  However, I'm gonna answer his post anyhow.


Marriage is work. I think Eugene Levy said that in a movie. And since lots of that work is biologically determined to be lumped on one side, (taking out the garbage, keeping the money safe, killing spiders) it's not surprising there's a lot of tension in the workplace.



So, assuming that he's stating that "men" do things like taking out the garbage, killing spiders, and keeping the money safe, let's just assume that that's true. 

That means that the woman is left with nothing to do at all!!!!

Other than laundry, dishes, vacuuming, dusting, de-cluttering, cleaning the bathroom, walking the dogs/cleaning the litterbox, making all the meals, cleaning up the kitchen, mopping the floors, washing the windows, miscellaneous stuff like changing lightbulbs, I could really go on and on and on....

Do people actually think this way?  I mean, hell, I take out the garbage about half the time, and I get rid of spiders, I also pay the bills.  My husband does the laundry.  This is just archaic.

Offline Rhapsody

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #204 on: March 12, 2013, 04:17:35 PM »
First off, I notice that the author above who double-typed has been unapproved.  However, I'm gonna answer his post anyhow.


So, assuming that he's stating that "men" do things like taking out the garbage, killing spiders, and keeping the money safe, let's just assume that that's true. 

That means that the woman is left with nothing to do at all!!!!

Other than laundry, dishes, vacuuming, dusting, de-cluttering, cleaning the bathroom, walking the dogs/cleaning the litterbox, making all the meals, cleaning up the kitchen, mopping the floors, washing the windows, miscellaneous stuff like changing lightbulbs, I could really go on and on and on....

Do people actually think this way?  I mean, hell, I take out the garbage about half the time, and I get rid of spiders, I also pay the bills.  My husband does the laundry.  This is just archaic.

Quote
Jokes aside:
I think feminism has and continues to make us more more civilized. When problems come up we sort them out as best we can. If one of those problems is militant manhaters ("From Mars!" injects a friend over my shoulder,) then it's one of them problems. I don't think it is, or at least, it's still a really small problem compared to other ones.

Emphasis mine.


Offline Kythia

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Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #205 on: March 12, 2013, 04:43:50 PM »
And, just for clarity, Ack Arg is still unapproved rather than "has been" unapproved.  That is to say, his approval process isn't complete yet.

Offline Ack Arg

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #206 on: March 12, 2013, 06:25:56 PM »
First off, I notice that the author above who double-typed has been unapproved.  However, I'm gonna answer his post anyhow.


Really sorry about that. As soon as I find the edit button I'll fix... whatever happened there.

I really look like a... more of an ass than usual. Lovely.

I think Bandita was joking too.

Dear god where's that edit button...

Offline Trieste

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Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #207 on: March 12, 2013, 06:32:17 PM »
Really sorry about that. As soon as I find the edit button I'll fix... whatever happened there.

I really look like a... more of an ass than usual. Lovely.

I think Bandita was joking too.

Dear god where's that edit button...

No worries, Ack Arg - you don't have an edit button unless you are approved, but most members realize that and give some leeway there. ^^

Offline Formless

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #208 on: March 12, 2013, 06:59:42 PM »
Well I seem to have joined this dicussion a tad late.

Feminism is just another concept that was once intended for a good purpose , but the modern world turned it into another " tool ".

Sometimes you see Feminists pointing out accurate &  proper points in thier arguements.

And sometimes you see Feminists making the most inexcusable stupid arguements.

Just like how chairty was once a pure concept that brought relief to the unfortunate . But the Modern age suddenly made it a " cover " for whatever things that may happen.

It is easy to thwart down a feminist arguement by mentioning some of the great female historical figure that thier accomplishments transcende time and language.

But do Feminists understand that some women are unwilling to change?

Some women grew accustomed to a certain life-style and cannot adapt. yet some may interefer and break a harmonious bond that was formed through years of marriage.

besides no offense but the way I see it most people use feminism as lure to help them gain more support. in elections , status or whatever.

A woman first and foremost is a Human & deserves what a Human does. Sadly who even understand this anymore?!!!

Offline Ephiral

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Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #209 on: March 12, 2013, 07:07:15 PM »
A woman first and foremost is a Human & deserves what a Human does. Sadly who even understand this anymore?!!!

Feminists. This is a pretty good statement of the core principle of feminism as a movement. Yes, there are radical outliers that claim the label and spew hateful crap - but they're just that, radical outliers. They are no more representative of feminism than Ken Ham is representative of Christianity.

Online Blythe

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #210 on: March 12, 2013, 07:46:08 PM »
It's hard for me to respond to the original argument in the OP's post. The explanation of a woman's place vs. a man's place comes from a religious source, and I don't ascribe to a religion. It's hard for me to look at that and agree that it would ever apply to me or to any nonreligious woman.

My second issue that makes it hard to respond is that the original argument seems to assume that women are trying to attract men. Not necessarily. Lesbians would find that idea repugnant.

Long story short--the initial idea of feminism, which allowed for gender equality, a life outside of the home that could include work, and the idea that women do not need a man to necessarily have a fulfilling life (although some might still, and there's nothing enslaving or wrong with that), are still good principles.

Radicalism always ruins a good idea.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #211 on: March 12, 2013, 07:49:51 PM »
I donít think that statement is as true as you think it is.  Culture has a great deal more to do with how women are treated than religion.  One only has to look at Muslim women and the gradient on how they are treated across the world to see how much variation than can be with just one religion.  Much of how a woman is treated depends on the patriarchy of that society and not simply the strength of the Muslim religion in that area.  Altering religion is not the key to pushing forward with the rights of women, changing culture and minds is at the center.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #212 on: March 12, 2013, 08:00:13 PM »
Actually, Blythe was pointing out that the initial post in the thread is arguing from the point of religion.  It's in the second spoiler.

The bit about assuming that women are trying to attract men is in the first spoiler.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #213 on: March 12, 2013, 08:02:13 PM »
Ah, then please forgive me.

Online Blythe

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #214 on: March 12, 2013, 08:14:53 PM »
No problem, Pumpkin Seeds.  ;D Thanks for the save, Oniya. <3 Although I did like that you mentioned culture, Pumpkin Seeds. Feminism varies widely globally.

I assume this thread discusses the USA?

Offline Rhapsody

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #215 on: March 12, 2013, 08:25:35 PM »
My second issue that makes it hard to respond is that the original argument seems to assume that women are trying to attract men. Not necessarily. Lesbians would find that idea repugnant.

Pansexuals find the notion parochial.

Offline Shjade

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #216 on: March 13, 2013, 12:06:13 AM »
I'll admit, there have been times when I've thought the discussions of how hard women had it in the workplace were exaggerated. That study really turned my head around on that one. It really shows how much gender influences people's reactions.

Indeed. One of several reasons some women choose to go by masculine nicknames in their various lines of work: no one's going to trust some pretty little thing named Josephine to get the job they need done as a private detective, but Joey? Sure, ol' Joe's gotta be reliable!

Offline MHaji

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #217 on: March 13, 2013, 02:39:30 AM »
If people discussed other subjects the way they discuss feminism and feminists:

Doctors: "I think doctors usually have an okay idea, but you can't deny that some of them actually poison their patients. It's a shame that serial killers ruin the good name of doctors."

HIV: "Well, it used to really be worth getting worked up about, but now with all these crazy antiviral cocktails, don't you think we're going too far? What are you demanding, that we just get rid of the virus everywhere, is that what it will take to make you happy? And those drugs have awful side effects... Don't you ever wonder if we were better off without them?"

Handicapped: "Back in Ancient Sparta, they let the handicapped die. Of course, I'm against that and I'm all in favor of equality, but don't you think these handrails and ramps are special treatment? It's like they want special privileges. I don't get a ramp, but it's like these people are trying to be BETTER than everyone else."

Offline Formless

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #218 on: March 13, 2013, 02:58:46 AM »
Mr. MHaji. As Medical professional I have to say.

Your post threw me off my chair with laughter. But I understand your point.  ;D

Offline Beorning

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #219 on: March 13, 2013, 05:12:45 AM »
And I disagree. There *are* unreasonable, fanatical feminists. I've talked to them myself, people...

Of course, I've said it already, so I'll shut up now.  :-X
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 05:22:22 AM by Beorning »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #220 on: March 13, 2013, 07:06:25 AM »
I don't think anyone doubts that, Beorning.  But just like we don't judge all doctors because of the freaky serial killers, it's a little unfair to brush the entire subject of 'gender-equality' feminism off because of the 'Men bad!' feminists.

Offline Ephiral

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Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #221 on: March 13, 2013, 10:51:23 AM »
And I disagree. There *are* unreasonable, fanatical feminists. I've talked to them myself, people...

Of course, I've said it already, so I'll shut up now.  :-X

There are outliers and extremists in every group. Why is feminism special, in that it must be judged based on this tiny minority rather than the 90%+ of its members who shun them?

Offline MHaji

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #222 on: March 13, 2013, 12:57:46 PM »
Quote
I don't think anyone doubts that, Beorning.

(Raises a hand.)

They exist, but my experience has been more like this:

Dude: "Those feminists are crazy! I talked to one, and she bit my fucking head off!"

MHaji: "What exactly did you say?"

Dude: "Oh, women lie about being raped to get attention, guys have to be protected from crazy bitches like that."

MHaji: ...

Dude: "Not that I have anything against women."

MHaji: (bites his fucking head off)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:59:46 PM by MHaji »

Offline Beorning

Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #223 on: March 13, 2013, 01:11:20 PM »
There are outliers and extremists in every group. Why is feminism special, in that it must be judged based on this tiny minority rather than the 90%+ of its members who shun them?

Because the so-called "extremists" aren't a "tiny" minority and are *not* shun by the rest of them.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but feel free to read my previous posts. I have given examples of clearly misadrist statements by Magdalena Środa, who is considered to be one of the *leaders* of feminists in my country.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Will feminism really bring women happiness?
« Reply #224 on: March 13, 2013, 01:18:38 PM »
The problem with extremists in general (no matter what the topic) is that they are, as a rule, loud.  Because they are so 'in your face' about their chosen issue, they collect loud followers, which makes them look like A Force Of NatureTM.  Meanwhile, the sane and rational ones are shuffling sideways trying not to be associated with them.