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Author Topic: Yet Another Abortion Thread  (Read 6895 times)

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Offline LunarSageTopic starter

Yet Another Abortion Thread
« on: November 21, 2012, 04:07:54 PM »
I can't believe I never saw this video before... but good old George puts things pretty close to how I feel on this topic.  It's hard to argue with his logic.  I really didn't see anywhere else that was appropriate to share it in.

George Carlin - Pro-Life is Anti-Woman!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and hazard a guess that E has way more folks leaning toward the Liberal side of the spectrum than Conservative.  I could be wrong, but  I don't think so based on my experience.  I do wonder what those who disagree with George's views on this matter would say. 

Offline Lux12

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2012, 05:10:28 PM »
*applauds wildly*It's like someone stole my thoughts and then uploaded them to youtube.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2012, 10:12:13 PM »
I don't think I have ever said this about anyone before, but I think I disagree with just about everything he says lol... It's amazing... I would love to meet this guy... we would argue for days, and somehow, I would come out of the conversation feeling like an absolute idiot...

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2012, 10:23:26 PM »
I don't think I have ever said this about anyone before, but I think I disagree with just about everything he says lol... It's amazing... I would love to meet this guy... we would argue for days, and somehow, I would come out of the conversation feeling like an absolute idiot...

Unfortunately you're years too late.  George Carlin passed on in 2008. 

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2012, 10:31:23 PM »
That is terribly unfortunate...

Edit: I don't mean any sarcasm in this message, btw...
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 10:34:54 PM by Deamonbane »

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2012, 10:35:06 PM »
That is terribly unfortunate...

He was VERY good at challenging your beliefs. 

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2012, 10:36:08 PM »
No doubts about that... a very convincing speaker...

Offline Serephino

Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2012, 10:41:09 PM »
He made some good points. I'm actually for social programs and birth control, which is why I don't consider myself pro-life even though I'm anti-abortion.  It's just crazy.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2012, 10:44:42 PM »
I don't know... my thought is that a mother's connection to her child should be so strong that she wouldn't even consider abortion... and if she is then, well...

Offline Lux12

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 10:49:13 PM »
I don't know... my thought is that a mother's connection to her child should be so strong that she wouldn't even consider abortion... and if she is then, well...

It's always more complicated than that.A vast number of women who get abortions think it would be more merciful to prevent a child from being born to unfit parents  than make them to suffer for their faults.We should focus on taking care of the life that is before we make more, and there are many problems that adoption does not solve.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 10:55:02 PM »
Well, there is always the option of adopting... of course, I am not a woman, and have never had any children, so I am unfit to be an accurate judge in this respect...

Offline Serephino

Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 10:55:12 PM »
I will admit, there are some good reasons for it.  I've had to do some soul searching myself, and came to the realization that with all my issues, pregnancy would probably not be a good thing for me.  The medications I take have serious risks for major brain development problems.  I wouldn't want a brain damaged child, as well as I don't know what pregnancy hormones would do to me.  Add to that, we're barely making ends meet as is.  We couldn't afford to care for a child, and I'm sorry, but I don't want to make taxpayers care for it either.  This is why I try to avoid pregnancy in the first place, but should it ever happen, I'm going to have a lot to think about.

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 10:55:53 PM »
I don't know... my thought is that a mother's connection to her child should be so strong that she wouldn't even consider abortion... and if she is then, well...

"Based primarily on nothing, and no experiences you can possibly have. Except your strong fatherly connection to the contents of your testicles, which you totally have, right?"

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2012, 11:02:33 PM »
Of course I do... I made that point clear in my last post... I am not a woman, neither have I ever had any children, so I am basing my argument on hear-say... which would usually mean that it is inaccurate, and incorrect...

Offline Lux12

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 11:13:14 PM »
I will admit, there are some good reasons for it.  I've had to do some soul searching myself, and came to the realization that with all my issues, pregnancy would probably not be a good thing for me.  The medications I take have serious risks for major brain development problems.  I wouldn't want a brain damaged child, as well as I don't know what pregnancy hormones would do to me.  Add to that, we're barely making ends meet as is.  We couldn't afford to care for a child, and I'm sorry, but I don't want to make taxpayers care for it either.  This is why I try to avoid pregnancy in the first place, but should it ever happen, I'm going to have a lot to think about.


We of the pro-choice mindset believe in prevention, but prevention doesn't fix everything either, nor does adoption.There are many things it does not address. There are women who die in the streets of countries around the world because they cannot get legal abortions. I am one of two sons conceived and born to a pro choice family. I've also known women who have had to suffer through wanted pregnancies, one of whom is a devout Christian. There are some things it just does not fix.

http://atheosemanon.deviantart.com/art/Adoption-will-NOT-solve-the-abortion-problem-321252061?offset=20


http://goldencoathanger.com/2010/06/14/adoption-is-not-an-alternative-to-abortion/


Offline Torch

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2012, 11:15:39 PM »
A vast number of women who get abortions think it would be more merciful to prevent a child from being born to unfit parents  than make them to suffer for their faults.

And the factual proof of this statement would be....?

Of course, if this is just your opinion you are certainly entitled to it, but to presume you know how "vast numbers" of women think is preposterous.

Offline Lux12

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2012, 11:19:40 PM »
I'm beginning to feel there's a double standard here because you're not asking everyone else to offer a link or a formal citation for what they say.

Offline Torch

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2012, 11:25:40 PM »
I'm beginning to feel there's a double standard here because you're not asking everyone else to offer a link or a formal citation for what they say.

You stated that you presume to know how women think. I'm asking for clarification on that statement. You are within your right to choose to answer or not, just as I am within my right not to ask anyone else the same question.

As I said, you are more than welcome to your opinion, but opinions and facts are not one and the same.

Offline Lux12

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2012, 11:31:06 PM »
Well for one I've known quite a few women who have told me the exact same thing though I doubt you'll accept that since I can't exactly just make them to come on here and tell you that. If that's not enough for anyone, then here's more food for thought:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.html

http://io9.com/5958187/what-happens-to-women-denied-abortions-this-is-the-first-scientific-study-to-find-out


http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

http://womensissues.about.com/od/reproductiverights/a/AbortionReasons.htm

« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 11:52:06 PM by Lux12 »

Offline Torch

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2012, 11:47:16 PM »
Well for one I've known quite a few women who have told me the exact same thing though I doubt you'll accept that since I can't exactly just make them to come on here and tell you that.

That's referred to as anecdotal evidence and is meaningless in a debate thread.


Quote
http://www.sba-list.org/suzy-b-blog/why-do-women-really-have-abortions

You do realize the above link is from a pro-life group, yes?


In any case, according to Guttmacher (the source referenced in all of your other links and thus the only one really needed), the most common reason women give for obtaining a termination is financial neediness, combined with existing responsibilities that are a current priority.

That is a far, far cry from your statement, i.e. "preventing a child being born to unfit parents". You really should choose your words more carefully.

Offline Lux12

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2012, 11:53:40 PM »
Damn.Must have copied the wrong address on that one.I'll have to look up the link I meant to post again.When I say unfit, I do not mean that in the permanent sense.I mean it as in they know they're in a position that would make them unfit at the time.

Who the hell profanes Susan B.'s name by using it for that agenda?Let alone on a sight that also misrepresents facts and statistics by manipulating words and claiming the existence of preposterous conspiracies.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 12:07:46 AM by Lux12 »

Offline Stattick

Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2012, 12:07:10 AM »
I agree with almost everything George Carlin said.

Offline Torch

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2012, 12:08:24 AM »
Damn.Must have copied the wrong address on that one.When I say unfit, I do not mean that in the permanent sense.I mean it as in they know they're in a position that would make them unfit at the time.

That's why I suggest you choose your words more carefully. Usage of the word "unfit" in any sense plays into the agenda of pro-life groups, who like to portray women who choose abortion for any reason as being unfit to be a parent at any time, whether before or even after the fact.

Take some advice from someone who has been active in supporting a women's right to choose longer than you've been alive: Don't use the word "unfit" when explaining your position. I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm giving you useful and constructive criticism.

Offline Stattick

Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2012, 12:14:36 AM »
In any case, according to Guttmacher (the source referenced in all of your other links and thus the only one really needed), the most common reason women give for obtaining a termination is financial neediness, combined with existing responsibilities that are a current priority.

That is a far, far cry from your statement, i.e. "preventing a child being born to unfit parents". You really should choose your words more carefully.

I would say that financial neediness, combined with existing responsibilities that are a current priority DO make one an unfit parent. Take a woman who's barely scraping by while working. She's one paycheck from being out on the streets. Do you really propose that she try to carry the child to term when she can barely afford to feed herself? She's probably going to end up homeless when she has to take maternity leave, and probably loose her job too. How's she going to survive, much less take care of a baby?

Offline Torch

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Re: Yet Another Abortion Thread
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2012, 12:20:07 AM »
I would say that financial neediness, combined with existing responsibilities that are a current priority DO make one an unfit parent. Take a woman who's barely scraping by while working. She's one paycheck from being out on the streets. Do you really propose that she try to carry the child to term when she can barely afford to feed herself? She's probably going to end up homeless when she has to take maternity leave, and probably loose her job too. How's she going to survive, much less take care of a baby?

Because it's a slippery slope when we equate fitness as a parent with financial obligations. If poor folks shouldn't be parents, then there are a whole lot of people on Elliquiy who are unfit parents.