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Author Topic: rude 'n' ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by  (Read 19749 times)

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Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #300 on: December 01, 2012, 08:53:44 PM »
@ Ryu

A very interesting story, and I'm glad you shared it and especially glad that you've found someone to be with presently -- wish I could say the same, alas!

Truthfully I think the kind of situation you're describing, although I can relate to it somewhat from past personal experiences, doesn't have too much in common with the unhappy circumstances that precipitated the drunken rant I posted further above.  That Facebook message -- which BTW I already apologized for in a subsequent message, and now I'm leaving that person the heck alone and hoping she doesn't think terribly of me -- was sent to someone whom I have thankfully and deliberately had no romantic dealings with whatsoever, because she was married to one of my best friends the whole time I knew her.  I was always unusally frank with both of them about the simple fact that I thought she was hot as hell, but that observation was in the form of innocent flattery rather than intended as a come-on.  Although it probably sounds like a come-on coming from a stupid souse like I was being above!  Alas!  Alcohol, demon alcohol, she's undone far better men than I ....

Ryu, you don't drink?  I'm surprised, only because the majority of people over 21 do drink, even though that leaves a sizable chunk of the public who don't, also.  The reasons for not drinking always interest me because they can be so dissimilar from one person to the next.  Many if not most of the teetotallers (I used the term descriptively, not derisively in the slightest) I've met were religious conservatives or Christian conservatives, although I've also met some who either avoided alcohol for medical or personal reasons like having a history of alcoholism in their families.

I likes me a nip now and then, a wee dram ... sometimes more than wee, I confess.  But I don't consider it a point of personal pride (as some less-than-mature folks do), nor do I consider it any sort of personal flaw -- nor personal accomplishment, necessarily, for that matter -- to avoid the sauce altogether.





There's a long story behind the dissolution of my friendships with the person addressed in that rant above and with her husband (now ex-husband; learning of their divorce from a mutual friend was a highly disturbing recent development) ... And it's a history I have no one else to really share with in real life, so like much of this blog, it might get dumped here for anonymous public viewing, since it's such an emotional and disturbing and intensely personal detail of my little ole' existence ... Anyway I might try to describe later the details of all that, but not today.

I think I've almost caught up on visitor comments and have been trying to reply to the latest ones quickly rather than waiting, but that still leaves a couple older ones that I'm very interested in replying to, and I'll get to that soon and hope that the commenters will check back to see the replies.  One never knows!

Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #301 on: December 01, 2012, 09:35:41 PM »
All of Christianity in seven words or less

Thanks to Jesus, everything will be okay.

Believe that fully, and you can be in heaven right now.  I usually don't, but I get close now and then. 

You'd be amazed how effing hard it is to simply believe the truth.

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #302 on: December 01, 2012, 10:01:00 PM »
Ryu, you don't drink?  I'm surprised, only because the majority of people over 21 do drink, even though that leaves a sizable chunk of the public who don't, also.  The reasons for not drinking always interest me because they can be so dissimilar from one person to the next.  Many if not most of the teetotallers (I used the term descriptively, not derisively in the slightest) I've met were religious conservatives or Christian conservatives, although I've also met some who either avoided alcohol for medical or personal reasons like having a history of alcoholism in their families.

"I'm Staight Edge (not because I specifically want to associate with that crowd, but that's the phrase used for what I am), as long as you definition of straight edge doesn't have anything to do with sex (which depends who you ask). I believe that altered mental states are a weakness (lots of things are weaknesses, I'm not trying to insult anyone). I don't medicate my bipolarity for the same reason. I am in control of me, and it will remain that way til the day I die if I have anything to say about it."

"Also, my romantic involvement with Allie... I'm not sure it can be called that. However, if you loved the woman you were talking about, and were also sexually attracted to her, I'd say that's enough for me to consider it the same type of circumstance. Unless you meant it was different for some other reason."

Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #303 on: December 01, 2012, 11:54:35 PM »
Yeah the word "love" in the drunken rant was meant to be taken platonically rather than romantically or sexually; I mentioned in the same rant, I think, that I also "love" the woman's husband still, and that love was certainly not romantic or sexual!  Regardless, the element of sexual tension was their in the relationship, because she was hot as hell and I'm a normal horny straight dude, but fortunately for everyone concerned, this woman never seemed attracted to me, and even if there was mutual attraction, I hope that neither of us would have acted on it anyway, since she was married.

As you can perhaps tell, these were dear friends of mine whom I still think a lot about, probably too much in fact, but the friendships were so close and ended so disastrously for me that even now, years later, the memories haunt me some.  Now and then.  Lately especially, because I just learned that their marriage didn't work out.

Anyway, I dunno how much similarity or dissimilarity between the different past relationships you and I were describing, Ryu, but it's a pleasure to learn more about you and your past anyway, and a pleasure to bend your ear about mine.

I'm amazed and somewhat delighted to learn that "straight edge" is still a term that's being used among any group of people, but especially among people much younger than me, as I think you are, by at least a decade or more.  I'd love to hear about how you came to that philosophy and what you know about the history of the term; AFAIK, with very limited knowledge, the term originated with an old band that is near and dear to my heart, but that detail might be forgotten or inconsequential in the current iteration of being called "straight-edge."  Is it a formal philosophy with key texts or key figures or music or anything else associated with it?  Not to bombard you with questions, you don't need to explain everything at all, but I'm interested in anything more you have to say about it.  I considered "straight-edge" to be one of the most unusual and fascinating and tiny movements among people when I was a teenager in the late 80s and 90s, so rare that I didn't know of anyone personally who claimed that term for themselves, even though the term was well-known among those my age back then, or at least among any who followed either the alternative music scene or the youth culture of the time.

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #304 on: December 02, 2012, 12:08:48 AM »
"Love, to me, is love, it is either all the same or all different. I don't see platonic or romantic love. It could be 'Allie love' or 'Suzaku love' (in my case), or it's all just love. That's how I see it, and as far as I'm concerned, marriage isn't something that gets between me and another person (in any way). I would respect their desire to remain faithful, but 'being married' means little to me. These are just statements of how I perceive things, and thus why I don't see them as 'dissimilar', not judgments against you or your way of seeing it."

"As for being 'Straight Edge', I just use that phrase because it's a way to describe what I am in the least amount of letters so that if it comes up again, I can just say that. I don't associate with any group that refers to itself that way. Hell, the only group I associate with is me and my friends. Even as an agnostic and anarchist, I don't associate with any 'group' (especially since I think both groups are basically made up of people who are way too far apart in similarities). I don't care about 'music scenes', I like what music I like, so I wouldn't know the answers to those questions. It's a term I've heard, and a term I understand the basic meaning of (the only thing I can tell that is true pretty much universally is that all users abstain from alcohol or drugs). I'm not even that strict, I might drink sometime, but I seriously doubt it. I don't know that I came to that decision in some specific moment, if I had to pick one, it would be the first time I saw my mom get drunk (she wasn't a drunk, it was just unpleasant to see her like that even once)."

"I hope that sufficiently covers your questions."

Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #305 on: December 02, 2012, 12:53:14 AM »
Yes that covers everything, and in very interesting ways, as usual.  :)  There's no obligation for you or anyone here to reply to my questions, necessarily, but you probably realize that, Ryu, since you aren't a newcomer to this blog.

I'm so glad to know that "straight-edge" as a term didn't disappear long ago, and not only that, but it's lost its narrow associations from the distant past.  In the late 80s and 90s, the term originated (AFAIK) with one particular post-punk band, one of the founders of what's known as "hardcore" music, a group called Minor Threat.  Great effing band, insane and brilliant.  The philosophy of the band and its fans can (and apparently has) become totally separated from their music, probably because it's a convenient and non-derogatory descriptive term for anyone who abstains from alcohol and drugs.

Straight-edge people tend to align with the far left politically, or at least that was the case in the past, while their refusal to use mind-altering substances gave them a good deal in common with religious conservatives on the far right of the political spectrum.  It's a funny and fascinating paradox to me.

Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #306 on: December 02, 2012, 01:43:35 AM »
A few more replies to things

For what the tangent is worth, what I like in a song is joy.  I want to be able to sing it at the top of my voice, slide on my knees onto the dancefloor when it comes on and generally use it as accompinent to good times.  80s rock gives me that, and god I love it for that.

I've nothing much to say about this except that it delighted me.  :)

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... lets imagine I was stood next to someone who had managed to never hear of the Beatles.  He turns to me and says "Wow, this is incredible.  Are all their songs like this?"  Could you, in good faith, say "Well, if you like that you should definately check out Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band".  The Beatles are an extreme example but quite honestly I'm always confused when people say they love the Beatles.  I don't see how you can have a favourite band who recorded both "She Loves You" and "Revolution 9". 

Their unprecedented and unequalled versatility was one of their defining accomplishments and evidence of their genius; it's usually cited as a justification for loving them rather than a reason to not love them.  :)  But to each his own!  I happen to love them.

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Someone likes "I Saw Her Standing There", you point them at Elvis, not at Abbey Road

Okay, except don't you point them to the other music the Beatles released around the same time as "ISHST" first, before you suggest any other artists?  To do otherwise would seem illogical and counter-intuitive to me.

People who like one song from an artist are likely to enjoy other songs from the same artist, and people who like one song released in a particular time period are likely to enjoy other songs released in the same time period.  You seem to be suggesting that the latter fact trumps the former and does so consistently and routinely.  I would say the only time that's true is when you have a long-lasting artist whose music changed with the times throughout their career and happened to closely resemble the music of several other contemporaneous artists.  There are many such examples anyone can cite, but there are far more counter-examples to disprove such a curious theory.  IMO.

It's a curious theory, and one I disagree with, but it's also unique and fascinating, so I'm glad you shared it, and I admire your willingness to stick to it if it's really what you think.  To each his own.  Speaking of which ...

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... yeah, I think you're right, we do think about music differently.  But hey, isn't it awesome that we're both right and neither one of our views excludes the other's enjoyment?  I know that sounded, I dunno, patronising but it wasn't meant to.  I genuinely think that's awesome.  Someone's love of Justin Bieber takes literally nothing away from my love of my music and I think its kinda cool that the musical world is big enough that we can both be happy with the bands and songs we love.

Yes yes yes!  Well said indeed.

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Did you know music has got less varied since the sixties?  Proven by SCIENCE.  I'm under the impression that I can't link to external sites here as they don't track back to E but if you're interested then PM me and I'll throw you the links.

Feel free to leave the links -- I link to outside stuff all the time -- but don't feel obligated to.  I'm a lazy sod and might not look them over for long if they require a lot of reading -- painfully-slow reader here.  But I'm interested nonetheless.

Any glance over the top album charts or the top singles charts in the late 60s quickly demonstrates that the stylistic variety of pop music back then hasn't been equalled before or since, and marvelously so.  Rock's apotheosis is right there; everything since has paled by comparison.

Can you tell that I love talking about music?  It's a lot more reader-friendly of a topic, and a hell of a lot more "cool" to talk about, than any of the nutty philosophy that bogs down this blog.  (Bog, blog.  I like that.)  (I'm so easily amused ....)







"Most of my beliefs are like that... I hold one principle to be the ideal, the one I try to follow in a situation in which I am dealing with intelligent and reasonable. Sadly, that usually means, just with the people closest to me, because there are just way too many people not worth my time or effort. This is why I've generally given myself a similar ban, or at least, I've decided that anytime I start to say what I *really* think on a topic, I just leave the topic."

I've noticed these acts of self-restraint on your part now and then, and I feel I can relate to that kind of an impulse, so it makes me imagine that we have that trait in common, and I like that.  However I think it's a shame whenever a range of opinions isn't openly aired on any given topic over in PROC, as long as politeness and appropriate decorum is maintained. 

I've probably heaped far too much unfair criticism on that section and its moderators and on Elliquiy in general, though, and I feel a little guilty about it, so I'm trying to drop the subject.







Aside:  another personal mistake

Which reminds of another stupid thing I regret doing recently, sort of.  Actually I don't regret that it happened because I think I learned something from it, but it was misbehavior on my part, so I regret it in that sense.  I got upset about a rude comment and proceeded to heap scorn on lots of Elliquians in a general way (without referring to any individuals).  This was over in the "Lords Only" section.

I regret it and shouldn't have done it.  It was precipitated by a truly rude comment from someone who was later denied membership at Elliquiy for reasons unknown, but I wouldn't be surprised if his inappropriate comments had something to do with it; the comment that upset me was flagrantly offensive in my opinion, even exuberantly so.

I have a very strong and probably natural inclination to get on my high horse and look down my nose at people; it's such a strong and deep-rooted tendency that I often do it without realizing it until after the fact.  I abhor that tendency.  It's a genuine and serious character flaw.  It's one that I'm slowly (so damn slowly!) learning to recognize and correct, but it seems to require incidents of misbehavior on my part for me to learn better.

Some of us are such stubborn and intractable beasts that we turn up our noses at any carrot offered and therefore require heavy, regular application of the stick.  It's a humbling and hard way to learn; I don't recommend it ... But one way or the other, it's better to learn than to not-learn!

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #307 on: December 02, 2012, 01:55:59 AM »
"I don't care about politeness personally, because when I'm talked down to (which someone can do perfectly fine while remaining 'polite'), I tend to respond with ire. That's what such people deserve, by my book, and I only restrain myself because it's often not worth the aggravation. Meet me on neutral ground and talk down to me and see if I don't react (that's aimed at a general 'you'). Anyway, as you said, topic drop."

"Anyway, I don't mind answering any and all questions (okay, maybe not all, or at least, I may answer all the questions, but they may not always be satisfactory). I welcome people to get to know me because I want to know other people."

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #308 on: December 04, 2012, 07:09:38 AM »
"Hey... so I thought I'd leave you a little follow up to my story in response to your drunken rant... I ended up sending a message of my own (which I won't repost, this isn't my blog), but the reason I did so was not because of my own (non-drunken) regret... Well, at least, that wasn't the trigger. You see, I decided to look Allie up today, because I do that. In doing so I came across a blog she kept for about 5 months, right smack dab around the time I 'dated' her. Reading it.. was probably totally stupid, because it makes me quite sure that my regret is totally founded on how stupid I was... So, I managed to retroactively have my heart broken from events that are almost a decade past..."

"Just thought it was interesting that your entry managed to prompt me to do something I expected I wouldn't ever do again."

Offline mrsjaz

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #309 on: December 04, 2012, 11:30:00 AM »
Quote
If Christianity originated out of the mythologies and events of older cultures, how does that make the fundamentals of Christianity corrupt?  Logically speaking, I don't see why that must follow.


Well my understanding is that the bible was taken from many sources, added to over a period of time, certain “books” left out,  different versions created, etc. ( I know you know all of this so let me not labour this point too much) - oh that reminds me of something I wanted to say but I’ll think on it more, maybe it’s taking things too far.)  Ultimately though the bible, stems from myths, spiritualities, beliefs, traditions and ideas etc, in other words always a version of something else. I don’t consider a version of something, especially a book, as original, never mind a whole idea like spirituality.
The corruption stems from the idea that those “fundamentals”  you attribute to Christianity came from elsewhere, and they were themselves not unified ideas. Gathering together the various icons, ideas, real histories, elaborate myths, beliefs and so on, of the world and putting them into a book and culture and calling that truth, is a corruption of the actual real history of how and why the book and religion and faith was created.


Quote
Christianity makes life-altering propositions about the nature of reality that may or may not be true, but whether or not those propositions are unique to Christianity would not necessarily make them true or untrue.

True Rick, but then I don’t think you’re calling the “adoption,” by Christianity, or the religious ideas and beliefs of others as a truism are you? I am, so when those life-altering propositions are traced back to mere myth, and adopted idea(s) I can not argue that it is true only untrue.

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I would suggest that they are unique to Christianity in at least this way:  Christianity's propositions about the nature of reality are centered on Christ.  I don't think that's the case with older mythologies, although I understand that some people think Christ was just another version of a mythological figure who appears in older religions also, but I don't believe that or see any reason to believe that.  Yet.  Perhaps you can persuade me otherwise!  :)

Well you’re right. ( I know that you knew this too) I too have heard it said the name “Christ” has been applied to others in history. Still, fact or knowing is, as I said before, not belief.

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I arrived at Christianity with serious thought and rejected every alternative I've heard yet,


An alternative to Christianity? It’s hard to take this as a serious proposition, as all religions (Christianity included)  appear to me to be cultural phenomena designed by man for man’s benefit.

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Why is empathy important?  If you don't mind the question.  I may ask others here too, but it's fine if you don't reply to them, although I'd be interested in your replies to any of this.  I like discussions and dialogs when I can have them.

As I understand it, this shows great insight into Christianity.
I was not too sure what you meant, important to me? Or society? Or humans?  Or to the example I gave?   

Empathy is important to me firstly because of it’s definition;
…  understanding of another's feelings: the ability to identify with and understand somebody else's feelings or difficulties.

Sounds like the Christian… do onto others to me, so I thought you would understand my connection. That empathy is not Christian per say. I can call myself a Christian but that does not mean I have empathy.
I pride myself on my ability to feel empathy for other humans, not just sympathy but empathy. George Lakoff’s is interesting isn’t he? I only came across his name recently somewhere on E, I‘d never heard of him but his conclusions hopefully advance our ideas of who we are, and more to he point, how we are programmed with certain values and moral codes (including empathy or the lack of it ) I can imagine the idea goes against the grain of some though. >:) 

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It's a free choice rather than anything I feel that I "have" to do.  Your points about the challenge of associating oneself with others as historically and utterly reprehensible as my fellow Christians are well taken.  I hate associating myself with them but choose to do so anyway

We have different ideas of free choice, if you have adopted Christianity, or have been brought up a Christian, your “choice” was not only given to you, but was also pre set to attract people to believe by others in the past. If you reject that which is given to you, then to me, you are expressing freedom from that which was given to you to “choose from.”  As a Christian you have to believe, you have no other choice,  If I had to believe because I had no other choice then I’d find that oppressive and not born of free will. 

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But it's so important for anyone who reads any of this blog to realize that there are knowledgeable and authoritative and trustworthy people out there who can talk to you or to anyone about Christianity, and I am not one of them, so if anyone wants to consider Christianity seriously, they should talk to one of those people.  Nothing I say and nothing you can learn from any source besides one of those trustworthy Christian leaders is a remotely-adequate substitute for what they can tell you in person.

I understand the point your making. Don’t you think trust, knowledge and authority come from experience, I would have to know that person, and possess knowledge that the person is a basically good person, that could takes years, so it’s a bit impractical. Moreover if… and I know I can’t, but if I could see into that persons mind what would I find. Urg! Probably best not to have that ability eh? The point though is we all can be one thing on the outside and another in our minds. Putting ones trust in what one cannot see, feel, touch, etc is not reassuring to me.
 
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Right, I believe there's only one God, a "universal" one, who made every person and has a purpose for every person which he chose to tell all of us, as mentioned previously.


And that purpose is to save ourselves in Christ’s name right?

What of those who are suffering. Rick seriously, Have you ever suffered? I know you know about suffering, you’ve written about it in the blog, we all know of suffering, but to experience starving to death, or to be killed in an violent way, these are sufferings we have not experienced. And you say god has a  plan/purpose for these people? 


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Christianity claims that God chose to reveal certain truths about his purposes and actions and intentions, and he didn't reveal those exclusively to me but to everyone who hears about Jesus and understands what he did on behalf of humanity.  I have no special knowledge or special access to God whatsoever, but I believe the things I've been told about him in Christianity, as anyone could.

But I still wonder what happens to those not privileged to know your god / Jesus and their plans. How do you save yourself if you do not know of the Western European ( but not coloured ) god?

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Personally Jesus's ethnicity isn't important to me very much.  I think it's funny that so many Westerners and so many Christians picture Jesus, an ethnic Jew of Middle Eastern origin, as a white dude.  :)  It's so silly to think that. 


It’s not silly to those West Africans whom have the picture of their blue eyed Jesus on their walls.

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I'm not white.

Oops sorry about that I should not have assumed you were.  Many images show a white god figure, how do you not imagine  god as white, given the onslaught of religious racial imagery that pervades our psyche ?


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They (and perhaps you) believe the same about me and consider my belief in Christianity to be foolishness of the first order.

Not at all. I understand belief or believing in something, but I don’t respect it as much as knowing, that’s all. And I suppose that’s one of the main reasons why I read your blog and why I posted here, because I could never understand why intelligent people like yourself, or say the very the eloquent and charismatic Archbishop of  Canterbury Rowan Williams, would use words like belief and faith. With respect Rick, you have to be a believer to believe. I’m a knower and so I respect only what I know. 


I said I had a point I wanted to bring up but wasn’t too sure about how to do it in a respectful way. So here goes...

Throughout your blog, I’ve had a sense of the unreal about some aspects of it. Its remarkable that you can type and think for instance after drinking heavily. I have tried and failed  many times while on the booze. My writing certainly wasn’t coherent, my spelling was worse, and yours looked… good! In fact, apart from what looked like to me, some well placed “errors.”  I really thought you were just joking about being under the influence.
Also;       
It’s hard, as I say, to reconcile the intelligent Rick with the Rick that writes in a Devils advocate type way. I‘m not saying you should know all things or that you should let us (the reader) know all that you do know, but equally it’s clear you do have a very good knowledge of the counter arguments to the whole religious debate thing and that seems
strange to me because your manner seems questioning while at the same time knowing. (That’s the way it sometimes reads to me ). You seem genuine in your responses, Sometimes you sound like a reporter or a researcher, giving compliments to prompt replies, and now I’m not too sure if I should even say how I feel about someone’s blog it seems not very respectful. Then again perhaps I'm reading too much into it.  :-X

Anyway thanks for responding to my reply, I hope I was respectful, especially with that last bit.     
 


.
 


Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #310 on: December 09, 2012, 12:15:11 AM »
Note.  Even if nobody cares or notices or checks back, I will soon catch up on replying to all the visitor posts in this blog, not because I feel obligated to do so, but because I genuinely want to do so.  :)  But sorry for being so slow and late about it.



Saturday night drinking vodka and yammering in a highly inelegant fashion.  Is that a word?  "Inelegant"?  "Unelegant"? ... Welcoming newcomers to Ye Olde Ricke's Blogge.

Probably unelegant.  Better:  awkward fashion.  Yeah, that's better.  Whoops, spellcheck likes "inelegant."  Live and learn.  Boy computers is smart nowadays.

Is this your first time visiting my blog?  If so, welcome!  Come right in!  Sit a spell, have some coffee or cookies, make yourself at home!  Here are some things you should know about this hellhole you have foolishly and tragically stumbled upon.

Most of the blog comprises ramblings from me about either my Christian beliefs or my embarrassing personal life or both at the same time.  (heheheheh I just lost almost everybody, right there!  What a world!)  Also I talk sometimes about politics and music (love of my life) and other stuff.  (No I got no girlfriend right now, so sue me.)  I complain about Elliquiy sometimes because I'm a dick.  Elliquiy is full of good peoples, you should join.

I desperately and somewhat pathetically solicit responses from visitors and encourage discussions of any and all kinds here.  It rarely occurs, but it does now and then, and that thrills me to no end.  Look, the truth is that if I had a healthy, normal social life -- or, hell, if I just had a freakin' girlfriend again, which I haven't had in longer than I care to admit -- I wouldn't be sittin' here typin', you know what I'm sayin'?  I'd be doing stuff that's a little more fun and less intellectual than writin' stuff.  In other words, I get lonely and use Elliquiy sometimes as an outlet for that awful but inescapable feeling.  I figure I'm not alone in that.  Elliquiy makes it possible for people to connect in unexpected and enjoyable and surprisingly meaningful ways.  Quite a place, that Elliquiy.  Oh, anyway.  I like comments and discussions in part because it makes the business of bloggation seem less solitary of an endeavor.

Also, more importantly perhaps, it helps me to imagine that at least one or maybe even two whole human beings besides me actually reads these posts.  See that "view count" that says like three-thousand-something by now?  Yeah that's bullshit.  And I like to bitch about it a lot.  Those are almost all robots, fuckin' searchbots.  If I had three thousand human beings listening to anything I said, I'd freak the fuck out and get stage fright or something.  I think it's nearly certain that many if not most of these blog posts get read by nobody at all but me, because I really ramble a lot, and it's usually not very interesting, so why would anybody read it?  On the other hand, I like to imagine somebody does, anyway.  (Oniya maybe?  Oniya is omnipresent at Elliquiy and we're all glad for that fact.  You'll see her name here and there and might even interact with her now and then, and you'll be glad you did; she's good peoples.)  Anyway, sorry if I embarrassed you there Oniya if you're around,  ;)  what I meant to say was that if you wanna reply to absolutely anything in this blog in any way, that would please me.  But you can also just read something and then find better things to do.  That's probably what I would do if I were you.  :)







Moving along.

Very interesting people turn up at Elliquiy on a regular basis.  This is a huge reason to join the site, if you aren't already a member.  There seems to never be a shortage of new, fascinating people who happen along.  Some stay, some leave, that's how it goes, but there's always more.  Thanks to the Mentors and Staff who make the effort to screen applicants and welcome them and show them the ropes.  Makes the place what it is, and that's good.

Here's somebody who showed up at Elliquiy some time in the past couple months and then promptly got banned.  I'm not going to mention his screen name or mention enough details for you to identify him, except you could do so pretty easily if you went digging around in old threads and posts, but why would you bother to do that?  Why are you even reading any of this again?  Oh, because you're really kewl and find my prattle mildly diverting and not-too-annoying for a few minutes?  Eh, that's good enough for me!  Come right in, sit a spell, etc.  See above.

This guy turned up at Elliquiy.  I don't know the guy in real life, but I paid a little attention to him at Elliquiy; I looked through his post history, which is something I do routinely with lots of folks, because it's easy to do, and also because I assume that's a normal and permissible thing to do, since the software makes it possible, even though I've noticed from looking at the page where it tells where people are that very few others ever look through people's post histories.  I do that frequently and don't understand why anyone else wouldn't.  Our posts are public because we figure maybe somebody besides us might look at 'em, right?  Otherwise ya oughtta be private messaging, I would think.  I do both.  Doesn't everyone?  I dunno.  I've seen a couple people or more who think it's creepy and stalker-y to look at posts written by other people whom you yourself aren't RPing with.  Personally I'm delighted and flattered whenever I think that someone besides me has read anything I've written and posted in a public space like Elliquiy.  I like to think most people would feel the same.

So this guy turns up at Elliquiy.  My first impression of the dude is incredibly negative.  He posted to this one thread and said stuff I thought was sexist.  I got mad about it and said so.  People at Elliquiy are usually respectful and mature as all get out.  (Well, I'm not always, but everybody else, I mean.  ;)  )  This guy was sayin' awful sexist shit and I thought he wasn't being sarcastic but being totally serious about it, so I called him out and got all mad and cursed him out too.  It was bad of me.  It was wrong.  I feel guilty.  I wish I could apologize to him because I mistreated him and disrespected him in public.  I regret it.  I can't apologize to him though because he got banned from the site so I don't know how I could get a message to him, plus he probably never saw those posts anyway, plus he's probably forgotten all about Elliquiy by now, since he got banned.  Hope so at least, no reason for him to dwell on it.

Why am I talking about this person I've never met?  Couple reasons, plus there's the vodka, which you never know what that's gonna bring out of ya.  :)  This guy was smart as fucking hell.  Genius guy.  Gifted writer.  Probably better than I'll ever be.  When I was younger, I used to fantasize about becoming a gifted writer who could get his fiction published.  It's not a fantasy I have much anymore because I'm already thirty-soadas;tehring and haven't written anything publishable yet, not enough close, so I probably never will; that's not my personal gift or destiny, it seems.  Then again, I'm only thirty-a;lskfd;ling, so you never know; maybe I'll blossom as a writer in my forties.  ;)  hehehehehe

This dude could write.  I admire that.  I envy that.  He used vocabulary words I've never even fucking seen before, much less have any idea what they mean.  He had the music.  He had the feel.  He had the touch.  Fucker could write some interesting stuff.  Guy was smart.

Also, guy just happened to have some really awful personal habits in real life, and he thought he could freely talk about those habits at Elliquiy.  I would have thought that he could do so also.  Why not?  He didn't do anything illegal or even unusual.  He was the kind of guy (even if he exaggerated his conquests, this was the vibe he put out there) who gets laid a lot and understands how to make that possible.  It takes certain skills and knowledge; he claimed to have said skills and certainly sounded convincing to me.  He also sounded like a sexist prick.  But you know, everybody's got their faults, right?  hehehehehe

Why am I talking about this dude at all in my stupeed blogge?  Here's why.  Guy was some kinda genius writer with all kinds of of fucked-up sexist attitudes.  Guy got himself banned from Elliquiy.  I'm really upset about that.

Before I talk about that, let me talk about something else that isn't related to that, although you might imagine otherwise.  This guy made this sexist remark in a thread that pissed me off so much that I totally disrespected him and talked shit about him, in that thread, in public, where people could see it.  I was angry.  I was offended.  I lashed out in anger.  It was wrong.  I was wrong and I regret doing it.  I would apologize to the guy personally but he got banned from the site so he probably never saw my response anyway or else doesn't give a shit anymore.  I have no idea how I could contact him and assume he wouldn't care enough to want that anyway.  I misbehaved.  I do that sometimes, even in public in front of people like you.  It's bad.  (oops I just mentioned that twice didn't I, the whole thing about my disrespecting that guy?  oops sorry.  I'm drinking.)

I regret talking shit about that guy and wish I hadn't done it, but even that isn't what this never-ending post is really about.  This post is about how amazed I am at the fact that you can be a mindblowing genius and still be a fucking prick who mistreats and disrespects others.  He probably didn't think that he did that, but he confessed to doing things that certainly sounded disrespectful and inappropriate in his dealings with women, and that's just sad and unfortunate.  But you know, I'm no better than him, or no worse either, so it's not my place to judge him, even though that impulse comes so naturally; he might be a better human being and far more moral and useful and selfless than I'll ever be, in spite of his occasional misbehavior.  I hope so; I hope he lives well and does good for many people.  He might.  Smart guy, he was.

How does a person get to be so effucking smart and eloquent and gifted and still do horrible things like fucking lots of women and then discarding them like human trash?  He wasn't bashful about describing it.  He even recommended it to others.  Probably that's what got him banned, I dunno.

That's what I meant to get back to, though; sorry, vodka ya know?  ;)  This guy got banned after making a few public comments at Elliquiy that vividly demonstrated that he enjoys treating women like inhuman cum receptacles.  Some men are like that.  Not too many; not that much, at least; although we're all animals when it comes to fucking, and no woman should ever imagine otherwise about any male of the species -- we like to stick it in warm soft crevices and do what comes naturally, even when it destroys our careers or relationships or livelihoods or dignity or reputation or whatever else.  David Petraeus much?  Poor guy.  He has a penis.  I guess he wasn't supposed to, because he was CIA Director.  I guess that makes sense.  Also, having a penis doesn't mean it's okay to cheat on your wife.  But it sure makes it understandable and likely, if not okay.

Dude got the boot from Elliquiy because he admitted in public to enjoying strings-free, guilt-free one night stands. 

What the -- ?

Look.  I'm a simpleton.  I'm an asshole.  Here's this website where lots and lots and lots of people go so that they can write about raping other people or getting raped.  Some people like to write about raping their relatives or getting raped by them.  Some people like to write about raping and then killing their relatives and eating their corpses and somehow fucking them too.  Or something.  hehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehhe Vore.  God bless us one and all.  God help us.  Anyway.

Elliquiy:  openminded place?  FUck naw.

FAscist place?  Maybe ...

Dude got banned for admitting to being a sexist dick and recommending that others do the same.  That wasn't illegal last time I checked.  It wasn't even uncommon.  What was that masterpiece of a movie by that young Mormon guy ... uhhhh ... "Husband and Wives" maybe?  Lemme check.  Naw, got it wrong.

Neil LaBute.  Genius.  In the Company of Men.  Have you seen that movie?  You need to see it.  Especially if you're a woman, a straight one; or one of these Elliquiy dudes who kicked this guy out.  YOu will learn things about men that you should know, things many people don't know.  Shall I summarize?  Men are animals.  Men are pigs.  Men are always horny.  Men are the lowest form of scum.  Men will fuck anything that moves.  Men will fuck over one another in order to fuck anything that moves.  See the movie.  You will hate certain characters; they will repulse you; they will amaze you with their repulsiveness.  Then, here's what you must do.  If you are a man, recognize that the most repulsive man in that movie is not all that different from you.  Not really.  REally.  That was you and me on the screen, buddy.  Assholes.  Motherfucking evil selfish scum.  FOod for thought.  If you are a woman, instead, recognize that your husband or boyfriend or father or brother or son is that gigantic irredeemable unrepentant asshole on the screen.  Deep down, every man you know is just that evil and just that ravenous and just that a;sflwdkfj;asdf.  It's terrifying.  It's human.  It's real.  See the movie; it's an important film from an important filmmaker with top-notch, world-class actors.  It will make you think if you take it seriously.  It might very well piss you off or offend you.  The best art does that sometimes.  Most of all it will show you truths about reality that you can't learn elsewhere.  That's what Art is for, silly wabbit.

Some jerk got banned from Elliquiy because he confessed in public to being a human male asshole.  I am a human male asshole.  I have urges and impulses that any sensible person should condemn.  I have personal beliefs that any sensible human being should either agree with and submit to and be transformed by or else consider absolutely offensive and unacceptable and impermissible.  Christianity is offensive as fuck.  Did I say that loud enough.

Christianity

is

offensive

as

fuck.

Marilyn Manson, back the first time I saw them -- yes I saw them multiple times, although never as a headliner -- they were selling hats and t-shirts that said stuff like "GOD OF FUCK" in big capital letters.  Now just where in public on the planet can you walk around wearing shit that says stuff like that?

I love Marilyn Manson.  Great fucking live band.  Not as good on record, but still, they had their moments.  Their first album was a landmark of heavy music, important to this day.  If you're a parent, you might benefit from studying its lyrics; it may remind you of the disdain for cultural norms and the yearning for primal destruction that creeps out of the souls of every thirteen-year-old male, something you knew yourself so long long ago and hopefully dismissed and outgrew immediately, but not all of us were so lucky.  I am Marilyn Manson and he is me.  I hope your son isn't, but if he is, then studying that album (or whatever its current cultural equivalent would be) might teach you some things.

That reminds me of something.  I keep reading about this current music star who is named "Ke$ha" or "Kee$ha" or something like that, and I hear she's doing stuff that is really fucked-up and vital and new.  I plan to find out about that.  There used to be a bleeding edge of conformity and social propriety that one famous band after another made it their business to piss upon, starting probably with either Black Sabbath or Alice Cooper and then proceeding with all of the original punk rockers and eventually Metallica before they got rich and certainly Korn and Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails and others I can't think of.  Peaches!  I learned about her a few years ago from a wonderful Elliquian.  Sooo fuckkkked uppp!  Peaches!  Yes!  Blood and pus!  Self-mutilation!  Give it to us!  Take us back to Iggy and the Stooges and G.G. Allin and razor blades and broken glasses and public defecation and every vile abomination we can think of!  This is part of rock and roll; it has been since at least Black Sabbath and maybe before.  Sabbath -- ALMIGHTY Sabbath -- brought the self-immolation and nihilism that the Sex Pistols and others perfected without recognizing that it had been done by anyone else before.  Were there other pioneers?  PRobably.  Cut the skin and flay the flesh.  Give us mud and piss and pain. 

Saint Patti Smith, "Rock N Roll Nigger": 

"Jimi Hendrix was a nigger
Jesus Christ and grandma, too
Jackson Pollock was a nigger
Nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger
Nigger, nigger, nigger

Outside of society, they're waitin' for me
Outside of society, if you're looking
That's where you'll find me"

It's supposed to offend you.  That was 1978, when I was alive but too little to grasp anything (or little enough to grasp everything, perhaps, and I've been trying to remember it every since).  Is that still as shocking as it was in 1978?  Hell no.  Is it still a little shocking and offensive?  God I hope so.  I don't know if want to live anywhere where they're so jaded and sick that even that doesn't phase them, it bounces off their hides without so much as a flicker of disturbance.  We're all like that now, of course; after South Park and Hostel and all the other cufushnkits. 

(Back to Saint Patti.)  It's supposed to offend you and open your mind, enlighten you, just like the fifth of vodka sitting next to me with my Bible sitting next to it.  What?  I don't know.  "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."  Free Your Mind... and Your Ass Will Follow.

I'm just spewing nonsense by this point, don't expect any better.  :)  Check this out, something from the liner notes for a Patti SMith record, or something.  Copied and pasted and found on Wikipedia, that cesspool of putridly-written and incoherent information ......

    "nigger no invented for color it was MADE FOR THE PLAGUE the word (art) must be
    redefined-all mutants and the new babes born sans eyebrow and tonsil-outside logic-beyond
    mathematics poli-tricks baptism and motion sickness-any man who extends beyond the classic
    for is a nigger-one sans fear and despair-one who rises like rimbaud beating hard gold
    rythumn outta soft solid shit-tongue light is coiling serpant is steaming spinal avec ray gun
    hissing scanning copper head w/ white enamel eye wet and shining crown reeling thru gleem
    vegetation ruby dressing of thy lips puckering whispering pressing high bruised thighs silk route
    mark prussian vibrating gushing milk pods of de/light translating new languages new and
    abused rock n roll and lashing from tongue of me nigger
    20.10.74 r.e.f.m."

Aargh, ack, pthew.  Patti Smith is a GODDD DD E SS S with her mustache and her heart the size of South Dakota.  Do young people even know who the fuck she was?  IS?  Fuck she ain't dead, she might even still be releasing music for all that I know.  You know why I know who she was?  Because U2 cited her as an influence and covered one of her songs, and in spectacular fashion, I must say, although to this day I've only heard the original maybe once -- the cover probably hundreds of times, oh fuck with that guitar solo -- so I can't claim to know the Patti Smith version well at all.

U2 are considered a total joke by the latest iteration of the pop culture cognoscenti.  This fact amuses me.  U2 are considered a joke.  hehehehehhehehe.

U2 are the single most successful rock band of not only their generation but every generation since, and that's why it's "coooL" and hip and funny to hate their shit.  Because they beat every one of the odds.  Who else?  No one else.  Not one of them.  PEarl Jam?  NO.  R.E.M.?  NO.  Nirvana?  NO.  Readioheahd?  Pleez.  (I love the hell out of them.  But no.)  There was a time I can remember -- not long ago?  no; decades!  -- when INXS was mentioned in the same breath as U2.  That was 1987, a flash of pop culture, an instant, the very instant when U2 crossed over from the music fans to the general public, with the first or second single from The Joshua Tree.  Have I told you that U2 was my favorite band for a brief but absolutely crucial period in my childhood?  Not without good reason.

Most U2 fans either don't remember or totally misunderstood the best material they ever produced.  I'm too self-conscious and sensitive to even identify the album here, it meant so much to me and defined so much of me.  To this day.

Yah.  A U2 album.  You think they're a joke?  Well, so do I, these recent years, in most ways.  But they weren't always and might not be again, someday.  You can never tell when these older masters will turn around and surprise you with an unexpected masterpiece.  Dylan did it, more than once, amidst all the mediocre dreck in between.  Who else?  I dunno.  Rock is about that last fifteen minutes of culture; no one lasts as long as it takes you to even explore their catalog.  Not any more at least.  The last "current," "popular" and "hip" band I paid attention to was either the Shins or the Arctic Monkeys.  Both bands who unexpectedly lived up to their hype.  That was, like, TEN YEARS ago or more.  What happened since then?  I dunno, should I care?  I heard a couple songs from Arcade Fire and got too bored to get to the end of them.  They weren't bad, I guesssss .... Pop culture is such utter bullshit.

It was bullshit when I was a kid too.  Commercial money-driven soulless shit.  The cognoscenti's version of The Price Is Right.  Huh, what?  I'm just making shit up now, it's true.  Sorry!

(Here's the secret.  The young ones, the ones who get it, the little children who have the power, the power to change the whole goddamn world and remake it in their own image, if they would only seize it.  Pop culture has always been 90% bullshit, 10% genius.  If you can't tell the difference, you'll end up a sheep.  Learn to tell the difference -- yeah, you can learn it, it isn't hard or special -- and then find the 10 percent and hang onto it.  The ten percent you find will soon become so insignificant and irrelevant to the rest of society that it will astonish and depress you.  That doesn't matter a whit.  Hang onto them.  Buy their albums.  See them in concert, even if -- especially if -- god my heart breaks -- if the room of the nightclub is occupied by you, the pal you went with, and the band, and nobody else.  Oh, there's the sound guy in the back corner of the room, maybe, if the club had one (the band couldn't afford one of their own, that's fer sure.)

GO SEE THEIR SHOW TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW.  You, your buddy, and the motherfucking greatest band on the goddamn planet, in a little empty room in a major city where everyone couldn't care less except you and them.  Do you think it's impossible for life-changing, spirit-exploding, world-shattering art to happen in that little lonely space?  I've seen it happen soo mannnyy timessss

What was this about earlier?  Oh, this guy who I won't name got banned from Elliquiy for admitting that he liked to do terrible but legal things, and frankly, it BUGS THE LIVING FUCK out of me.  This guy was smart, which matters to me, but much more importantly, he was always civil and even friendly.

HIs opinions were so offensive and shameless and flagrant and unrepentant that I myself got so pissed off about one of his posts that I called him a "motherfucker" in public.  That was wrong to do, because it's never okay to call anyone that and really mean it, but also because I knew in advance that the guy had been banned from Elliquiy already and probably wouldn't see the comment and certainly wouldn't be able to respond to it in that thread where I made the comment.  You know what that's called, boys and girls?  That's called

cowardice.

Yep, that was me.  Feckless shameless shitfaced coward.  Talking shit about somebody in part because I knew they couldn't possibly respond.  Coward.  Ugh.

This dude got banned from Elliquiy and for the life of me, and even though it's totally none of my fuckin' business personally, although it kinda is if I care about things like free speech or about Elliquiy as a virtual community, for the life of me I can't figure out the justification for him getting banned.  Elliquiy's staff are not at all likely to jump to rash conclusions or make decisions without careful consideration.  I understand that there was a discussion (can you imagine?  Jeezus.  I really admire these folks.  I do.) a discussion amongst the staff about how to deal with this psycho sicko dude, and then somehow the decision got made to ban the poor guy.  Whatever.  Elliquiy isn't heaven or anything; it's not someplace you want to live forever.  It's not important in the grand scheme of things, and this guy was fucking smart, so I assume he realized that sooner or later (probably sooner) and got over his "banishment" without a tear shed or a night's sleep lost.  Good for him.  Me, I'm just stupid enough and dumb enough to mull shit like this over for more time than anyone should, and then tell you about it on top of that, God knows why.  :)  THis blog is so dduuuumb.

Since I bitched and moaned and rambled for so so so so long about all that, I should probably conclude by summarizing how come I was so personally upset about the fact that guy got banned, but I'm too intoxicated and lazy to really do that, considering that I still, to this day, am not convinced anyone but me reads every line of this silly wordy blog.

Let's see.

Look, I have opinions that most people consider to be WRONG, and not only that, but I tell other people that they really oughtta agree with my opinions because my opinions are right and every alternative opinion is wrong.  (ONly my most important opinions, the Christianity ones.  Nothing else I say means jack-shit compared to those, and people should disagree with everything else anytime they want.)  How pompous and conceited and unfair and pretentious and terrible is that?  PRobably a lot.  Look, the only opinions I have that really matter are about Christianity, and those opinions, at their root, aren't any different from what many other Christians have believed for nearly two thousand years.  I'm not manufacturing any of it myself or asking you to buy something new and unheard-of.  Does that make it true necessarily?  Hell no.  It's all true, but not because of that.  ;)

This poor guy thought that he could let his hair down at Elliquiy and be himself.  This was a smart guy.  He knew that there are very few places in the world where any person can openly express his personal opinions or describe his personal habits and experiences without getting scorned by everybody.  He imagined that Elliquiy was that rare haven where even the misfits could find acceptance.  It is exactly that kind of place for certain people, for many people, even for me, although I've never felt that I belong at Elliquiy; my presence and ongoing activity is tolerated if not encouraged, and that's good enough for me and earns from me great appreciation and respect, since I could not get that much from most or perhaps from any other virtual community, although I haven't looked much, but I'm so cynical that I assume it would be much worse elsewhere.  Seriously, there are so many kind and smart people at Elliquiy, from Vekseid on down, you gotta respect that, no matter how much of a jerk or critic you might be; these are nice folks who participate in a fun and pleasant mutual endeavor, and that's no small feat in this sad, sorry old world of ours.  IMO IMO.

This guy got the boot.  I wish he hadn't.  I wish I hadn't spoken ill of him in public.  I think he had every right to his opinions and deserves to find a place where he can be himself and be open about his opinions and still find acceptance with all his faults intact and all his sins unrepented.  Look, isn't that what each of us cherishes about this silly stupid tiny insignificant wonderful remarkable singular astonishing place called Elliquiy?  There's a lot of tolerance and openness and wisdom at this site, from its basic design on down to the men and women who keep it running each and every day, and that's a small but not insignificant feat that everyone involved should take some pride in.

Still.  I wish that Elliquiy had found room for that ingenious but shameless fellow.  I wish I had found much more room for him than I did, sooner than I did, in my own heart and mind.  (He loved some music I also love.  I learned that too late to let him know, and -- really -- that means so much to me.  He loved the Dead Kennedy's, for god's sake.  Jello Biafra.  PUnk!  Real punk.  And, And Thelonius Monk!  oH mY GOD!  Oh my god, oh.  It makes me want to cry.  Anyone who loves Monk can't be a bad guy, right?  Cna't be.  God I'm crying right now typing this.  That dude had Monk records.  I have one or two Monk records that I haven't heard in years because they're packed away, but I will cherish them till the day I die, because they are as brilliant as any music recorded in the 20th century.  Thelonius Sphere Monk.  I had never encountered or learned Monk's middle name until today, and I learned it because this stupid stranger strange sexist dude mentioned it in a thread somewhere, and I'll probably never forget that.  Damn, how fucked up.)  And I hope the fact that there wasn't room for him around here isn't an indication of intolerance in the community that could eventually come down upon my head too, because I also have a great many strongly-held personally views which the vast majority of Elliquians consider foolish at best and downright immoral at worst, and I too am guilty of offensive speech and stubborn adherence to at least one offensive philosophy that I would sacrifice my Elliquiy membership for sooner than I would do the reverse -- sacrifice it to preserve my membership and good standing around here.

Alright I'm gonna go finish my vodka and put together some nachos for a midnight dinner.  Life is good, what can I say?  Thanks for reading, you insane nut, you.  :)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 12:21:03 AM by rick957 »

Online Athos

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #311 on: December 09, 2012, 12:26:40 AM »
Quote
That was wrong to do, because it's never okay to call anyone that and really mean it,

No, it's not. There are plenty of times I have called people that and I promise you, I meant it every friggin time and I would do it again. I'm not saying that every person who annoys you needs to be chewed out, but there are legitimate scumbags in this world and they need to be stood up to every chance you get. Just my humble  opinion, but there it is.

Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #312 on: December 09, 2012, 02:30:10 AM »
Quote
No, it's not. There are plenty of times I have called people that and I promise you, I meant it every friggin time and I would do it again. I'm not saying that every person who annoys you needs to be chewed out, but there are legitimate scumbags in this world and they need to be stood up to every chance you get. Just my humble  opinion, but there it is.

I respect your opinion, Athos, and I thank you for stopping in and sharing it.  You've raised an interesting topic, and since I so luv to hear myself talk, I think I'll elaborate on this point.  :)

I suppose I don't disagree with you in the sense that there are definitely individuals all over the place who do terrible things and ought to be called out for doing those things and held accountable for doing those things, if possible.  However, I also believe that, even though I usually don't feel this way -- especially about the most reprehensible scumbags whom you or I could name -- I'm not really any different from the worst human scumbag you can find. 

I don't want to go through a lot of rigamarole here about my personal beliefs -- there's plenty to be found in this blog, if you look backwards, and there's more to come -- but I believe there's only one kind of goodness that actually matters in the grand scheme of things, and there's only one way to get it, and no one can get it by working hard or doing lots of selfless good deeds, no matter how many they do.  Christianity teaches -- and I choose to believe it -- that every human being alive is equally and totally corrupt, and not really any better or worse than each other, unless we choose to believe Christianity and become transformed into totally different people who are finally capable of actual goodness.

Not even all Christians understand that teaching the way that I do, so I hardly expect to find many people anywhere who see it that way, but that's where I come from, personally.  If you or others have different opinions on the topic, I'm interested and eager to hear them and perhaps even to engage in some polite discussion or debate.  Any chance to dialog with thoughtful visitors is a pleasure, even if we end up disagreeing (as we probably will, since my personal beliefs are so narrow and relatively unpopular).

EDIT Oh I should add this.  I think it's possible and appropriate and even important sometimes to find a respectful way to call out someone or at least to point out that they've done something wrong that should not be allowed.  That takes balls, and tact, and great wisdom and maturity, in my opinion.  I've seen it done at Elliquiy, even quite recently, and I respect that impulse and admire it and seek to emulate it.  But it's not a simple or easy thing to call attention to misbehavior without disrespecting the person behind it.  It's possible though, and that's important to recognize.

My calling somebody "motherfucker" definitely fell into the disrespectful, inappropriate category, in my opinion, at least.  :)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 02:42:05 AM by rick957 »

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #313 on: December 09, 2012, 03:49:52 AM »
"I say this as a bisexual, anarchistic, agnostic polygamist: I am so over tolerance. I just am... I think it's mostly because we 'tolerate' gay people, and black people, and people of other religions. Personally, I think we ought to be respecting gay people (and straight up putting .44 calibers in the faces of everyone who doesn't), accepting the differences between any two races (and not pretending they don't exist in any way), and honestly, the things I'd do to religious people varies pretty greatly, but tolerance is not something I'd put on that list. I respect true Buddhists, and if you're Christian (like you are rick) and capable of being reasonably open-minded and not pushing your religion where it doesn't belong (like you rick), than good for you. However, I don't think I should tolerate Christians just because they aren't evangelists, because pretending that a lot of bullshit doesn't happen in the name of religion is beyond stupid."

"The point here, in relation to the current topic, is that I'm tired of letting stupid people say what they want to say and just shrugging it off. They're fucking up the world, and they make up the majority of it (I never once doubt myself when I say that). This is why I don't speak quite openly anywhere, because honestly, the thought there's even a 1% chance that humanity will be put out of its damn misery this month, brings me more hope than the 99%+ chance that it won't happen. That tends to earn me a pass from other people who somehow don't understand why I think our species doesn't deserve one tiny bit of its existence. That tends to get me labelled as evil and/or insane."

"Moving on, the topic you brought up about the guy who got banned... Funny thing is, if he is everything you said, I don't think he should be banned, because of certain principles I hold about 'authority'. Yet, I do believe he should be doused in oil and set ablaze for being a piece of human scum. So yes, to me, banning him is uncalled for, setting him on fire, is not."

"I dunno, anyway, I'm done, and I doubt I'll bring up these sorts of things again. I don't need the grief I get from those particular opinions. Still, you get drunkenly, stupidly honest so very often, rick, that I figure I'd give you a taste of my equivalent. I feel like you'll appreciate that, even if you don't agree or like it."

Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #314 on: December 09, 2012, 04:47:29 AM »
... Still, you get drunkenly, stupidly honest so very often, rick, that I figure I'd give you a taste of my equivalent. I feel like you'll appreciate that, even if you don't agree or like it."

Damn straight I appreciate it, and enjoy it too, even if we don't agree about every point or even most points.  (Also I'm taking your acknowledgment of my stupidity as a roundabout compliment, whether you meant it that way or not.  ;)  J/K )  You make the effort to be respectful and civil even when you're expressing an opinion that you know in advance is not likely to be popular or shared by members of your audience; that takes far more maturity and intelligence and consideration than many others are able to muster when they're discussing difficult topics, ones where people are likely to disagree and must somehow figure out how to discuss them in a civil and productive way, or else not discuss them at all.

I respect you for sticking to your views and especially for having the candor and courage to express them openly, Ryu.  Also it's a pleasure and honor to have your many comments in this humble blog.  ;)  Because if there are other readers, and there might be some now and then, I'm sure your posts may give voice to their personal views much more accurately than mine.  Of course you also probably have certain views that are completely unique to you, but that too impresses me and interests me.  Speaking of which, Ryu -- if you ever say anything I consider offensive or inappropriate here, I'll let you know quickly in a respectful way (hopefully!), so feel free to share as many of your views and go into as much detail as you like. 

I try to respond to each visitor's comments whenever it seems appropriate and enjoyable, and whenever I get around to it -- but even when I don't reply, I read everything and pay close attention to what gets said here.

I have no earthly idea why so many smart and interesting people have chosen to visit, read, or comment in this blog, but I certainly enjoy whenever anyone does, whether they're a newcomer or a familiar face.  That sort of thing is just what I need to keep enjoying this blog business and keep it going.  :)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 04:52:46 AM by rick957 »

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #315 on: December 09, 2012, 05:10:45 AM »
"One need not be 'stupid' to 'be stupid'. It wasn't exactly a compliment, but a simple acknowledgement that you are happy to be honest about yourself, and I appreciate that."

Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #316 on: December 11, 2012, 09:27:12 AM »
Loss, insufficiency, awe, opportunity, all bound together, as they often are.

Today it's snowing where I live.  Mid-December.

Someone very dear to me died unexpectedly this week.  We hadn't been in touch in decades, and I imagine he would have been surprised to know the lasting impact he had on my life, considering how limited our contact was.

I was glad to see the snow today, especially glad, in part because it seems comforting and fitting.  The world is a colder place than it was three days ago, because a great man who was with us then is with us no more.  We all have to get by without him.  We were lucky to have him as long as we did.

It's a loss for those left behind, and now is a time for mourning; I wasn't close to the man who died, so my mourning is brief, but I'm sure a great many others whose lives he touched will feel the loss very acutely, and I'm mindful of their loss.  But the mourning time will not last forever; not for long, really.

Because I wasn't close to him anymore -- never was really, even though he mattered a lot to me -- I'm not emotionally distraught or anything.  I mourn his passing nonetheless. 

While being mindful of those who were close to him and have had their lives shattered by his sudden departure, I can also recognize that it's not just a time for mourning but a time for celebration.  Celebration.

Each person is such a wonder and so utterly irreplaceable and so amazingly unique and such a miracle.  Here was one person whose life just ended, but the life he lived was a great one indeed; I know, along with many, many, many others; here was greatness.  Here was a man whose example I will strive to emulate for the rest of my life, and whose goodness and kindness I have not forgotten and hope I never do.

Language is a magical and powerful thing, but there are many things that language fails miserably to express, except perhaps from those among us with the greatest gifts for weaving words ... even they are sometimes at a loss.  Who can get ahold of a human spirit, reconstruct it with a handful of letters and pauses?  It's like counting grains of sand.

Sometimes I wonder if it's a good thing to try to express something that cannot be expressed, or cannot be expressed well by me.  I have certain gifts, but they usually pale compared to similar gifts in others; maybe that's to be expected.

Only a few of us know it, but today the whole earth reels from the departure of a great and good man.  It falls on certain people to mark the passage, to name it and word it and announce it.  But the strange thing about mourning is its inseparability from celebration. 

See this greatness that was given to us, and now it's been taken away, and we mourn, but we are also thankful and honored.

Words fail.


Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #317 on: December 11, 2012, 10:27:38 AM »
Can't get enough of that old replying stuff

I just learned (or perhaps just remembered) a little something about these forums:  did you know that you can click on the blue header in the quotation below, and it links you back to the original post being quoted?  I don't know why that hasn't always been obvious to me.  It was obvious to you, I'll bet, but you're a bit smarter than me!

"Since you posted extensively on this, I'll touch on this. My take on God and Christianity is this... I entirely believe that there is a possibility God and Christianity exist. I also believe, wholeheartedly, that if they do, I'd rather go to Hell. I mean that, entirely, even if it's the most awful and worst torture possible, I'd rather suffer it than bow and scrape for an entity that is so low as to insist I suffer if I don't worship him. Put it any way you like, that's what is being said, and if you would place all the good things as acts of God, I would only accept that if all the bad things are also acts of God."

Very good, as always, Ryu:  if you're going to reject Christianity, you've found a very sound and sensible reason for doing so, better than the reasons some other people have.  Here is some food for thought; not to change your mind, necessarily, but maybe worth thinking about.  Your mind is yours to change or not to change, as you see fit, and I respect that.

God is not responsible for human suffering.  Humans are.  Christianity says this:  God loves us so much that he gave us the freedom to turn against him, or to embrace him of our own free will, and every one of us turned against him, and that's why we have suffering.  Because God knows everything, he knew we would do it and suffer the consequences, and he already provided for us a very easy and simple way to be free once more of all our pain and suffering, but even this he won't force us to do.  He gives us the choice to reject him yet again, reject the solution he offers us, because he loves us too much to force it on us.

Our freedom is a very great gift, but it doesn't come for free.  Freedom means that the choice is in our hands, yours and mine, not God's.  Ryu, have you read "The Grand Inquisitor" from Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamozov?  Everyone should read it at least once.  I'm not smart enough to fully understand it, because there is lots there to understand (and misunderstand), but at least in part, it's about how much easier and nicer it would be if someone with the power to do so would just take away this damn freedom of ours. 

Our world is a mess because God was stupid enough or cruel enough to give us the power to either follow him or reject him, and we all rejected him and continue to do so; but as long as we each have breath, we have the freedom to change that, and no one can or will take it from us.  It's a great gift indeed, but it's also a very heavy burden. 

Would you rather not have it?  Sometimes I would.

Quote
"Also, religion is, by definition, a belief system for that which we cannot quite understand: the afterlife, the creation of the universe, and whatever else. Moral codes often go hand-in-hand, but quite honestly, even if the only thing Christianity tells one to do is to believe in, trust in, and worship God, that's still a code of what is right and wrong. Even if it boils down to, worshiping God is right, and not doing so is wrong. This is an area I find exceedingly irritating, that has nothing to do with religion. People love to insist that 'this thing' is not under the definition of 'this word', insisting that whether something falls under 'this' or 'that' word even means that much. This comes up often with the word 'art', and even the word 'religion'."

Language is very important, in my opinion.  Words have intrinsic meanings that are built into them, and then they have further meanings (connotations) that are associated with them based upon the way that people use the words over time.  Anyone who wants to communicate well about anything has to be mindful of both intrinsic meanings and connotations, especially for the most important words.

Usually when someone insists that a word means one thing and doesn't mean another, they're saying that one of those connotative meanings is invalid and ought to be rejected.  Sometimes they're right; sometimes they're wrong.  Usually they're probably wrong.  But they aren't just picking nits or making molehill-mountains; they're grappling with the very meat of existence:  language.  Words have power.  Words can change lives; words can topple empires; words can lift up a person's spirit, or break it.

You're good with words, Ryu; that's a gift.  Anyway, these are more things for you to ponder, or not, as you see fit.  I don't just write these responses for the person I'm responding to, but for anyone else who happens along and reads any of it.

Quote
"Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I am honestly not one bit thrown by your acceptance of God or even Jesus. Hell, by technicality, that makes you a Christian no matter what else you believe.

Yes, I am a Christian by choice and will admit it to anyone, or at least, I hope I would admit it to anyone.  I've never faced much hardship over admitting it personally.  Then again, it's not exactly a way to make oneself popular, except perhaps with other Christians, and I don't relish the idea of being popular with them.  I talk shit all the time about Christians, but make no mistake, I'm one of them; and I'm guilty of a great many -- perhaps all -- of the criticisms I hurl at them.

I'm probably more of a hypocrite than you are.  Probably more of an asshole.  You're probably (hopefully) neither a hypocrite or asshole.  I am, very often indeed, even though I try not to be, boy do I fail a lot.

Quote
It just slams me that you believe so many reasonable, intelligent things, yet your discussion of Christianity is so full of what is essentially (as you described it in music before) full of propaganda. I suppose, in the end, I don't honestly care. I doubt I'd change your mind, and I don't know that it would be something I'd want to accomplish. I just figured I'd say something, since you have been talking about it so much lately."

"If you respond to this, do me a favor and don't try to evangelize or pity me. I presume you're better than that, but I seriously mean what I said before. I consider the Christian God a possibility, but if he does exist, he knows that I think he can kiss every last part of my ass. I consider him completely unworthy of my worship. I'm fine with you being a Christian, I accept that and still respect you, and I'd rather it stay that way."

But Ryu ... what do you really think?  ;)  hehehehehe Your candor and chutzpah inspire me; always do.  I hope I never pity you or try to evangelize you, but I hope I also am able to be honest with you about my beliefs, and some of my beliefs pose existential and immediate challenges to anyone who disagrees with them.  You have the right to reject and even piss all over my beliefs, as does everyone else, and if you do so with enough civility and/or sufficient flair, then I won't even mind that much.  :)  It's a complicated thing, though.  Many smart people consider it offensive, inappropriate, disrespectful, and reprehensible for any person to believe something and then claim that it's true not just for that person but for other people too.  I do that.  A lot.  About Christianity.  That offends some people, lots actually, and maybe it should. 

I don't plan to stop, though, and I'm grateful whenever people who reject Christianity find it in their hearts to still be friendly with me.  I have a great many personal flaws, and I'd much rather be open with you (everyone) about them, because I will always have many flaws, even though I strive to correct them constantly.  I will never be perfect or perfectly likable.

Next up, responding to FireflyWhisper's comment.  Hope she makes it back to see the response; I've been looking forward to trying to make one.  Also a bit intimidated by it.  I fret about these things because people say stuff that's really smart and thoughtful, and I feel like I need to try to respond in a way that's at least half as smart and thoughtful as they are.  That's hard to do with a lot of these comments!  I'm still glad to hear from such amazing folks, though, even the ones who disagree with me.







Today's installment of my hate.

I hate things a lot.  I hate people sometimes.  Sometimes I hate people so much I want to kill them.  If you never do that, then you're probably a better person than me.  I hope you don't mind my admitting to having this horrible tendency though.  I know it's wrong to hate people and certainly wrong to want to kill people, and I hope to eventually become mature or caring enough to stop hating and wanting to kill people, but I'm not that mature or caring yet.  Are you?  Perhaps you can help me learn how to do that too.

I live with two dogs who are the sweetest, most adorable, most harmless, beautiful creatures; they are happiness and joy in the shape of dog.  One of them has all these ghastly-looking patches on her skin where her thick fur has completely stopped growing.  The reason is because I took her to get groomed over the summer and asked them to shave her hair off and instead they pushed hard enough to permanently damage her coat in all those places.  If I had realized that had happened at the time, I would have ... I don't know what I would have done.  But every time I look now at my sweet wonderful beautiful dog I see the ghastly patches all over her and I want to go kill people.  I hate myself too for putting her through that and not even realizing it; it hurts. 

Me, that is.  The dog, being a much more sensible creature than any human being, couldn't care less.  She's a dog, and a smart one.  She's more interested in licking her genitals and howling at other dogs who pass by than worrying about some momentary pain caused her by some stranger at the pet grooming place months ago.  She might not even remember that horrible experience and certainly doesn't waste energy thinking about it.  I do though.  I love my dogs so much.  They aren't mine actually.  I love 'em anyway.

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #318 on: December 11, 2012, 05:42:45 PM »
~Stuff about mourning...~ (No to be disrespectful, it was just a lot of stuff.)

"Since my mother's suicide, I've done everything I can to stop mourning death. It's in human nature to do so, and I doubt I'll ever be able to stop myself from the painful, selfish fear that I'll suffer the death of my dearest love... Other than that, though, I don't mourn death. Someone dying is just a thing that must happen, and c'est la vie... Or I guess, 'c'est l'morte', I think that's right. Anyway, mourning really has more to do with my sense of loss, than their deaths, and honestly, I'd just rather do something better with myself. I believe that I should spend every part of my life either learning or trying to be happy, and if I'm not doing one or the other, I'm wasting time. I waste a lot of time, but humans are flawed that way, doesn't mean I should encourage it."

"I dunno, that's just my thoughts. I know that it doesn't change the fact that loss hurts, and I feel for you, I just don't know how to empathize the way most people do about death. I have felt a great loss in my life once, I know how much that sucks, but if I could go back in time, I'd tell myself to suck it up and not ruin years of his (my) life over it."

Very good, as always, Ryu:  if you're going to reject Christianity, you've found a very sound and sensible reason for doing so, better than the reasons some other people have.  Here is some food for thought; not to change your mind, necessarily, but maybe worth thinking about.  Your mind is yours to change or not to change, as you see fit, and I respect that.

God is not responsible for human suffering.  Humans are.  Christianity says this:  God loves us so much that he gave us the freedom to turn against him, or to embrace him of our own free will, and every one of us turned against him, and that's why we have suffering.  Because God knows everything, he knew we would do it and suffer the consequences, and he already provided for us a very easy and simple way to be free once more of all our pain and suffering, but even this he won't force us to do.  He gives us the choice to reject him yet again, reject the solution he offers us, because he loves us too much to force it on us.

"Not all human suffering comes from other humans... However, I don't care either way. My objection to God doesn't come from 'why do bad things happen?' I think that's kinda shallow and self-involved. My objection to God comes primarily from being told I'll be punished if I don't worship him, or even just that he deserves worship. I think that's even more shallow and self-involved. If someone demands worship, no matter their power, they probably don't deserve it. I won't be ruled because I'm afraid of the consequences, that's called tyranny."

"I'm sure you don't see it that way, or if you do now, I'd be pretty amazed. Still, that's how I feel about it, and I've thought about it plenty for... about a decade now. Stupid people and intelligent people have told me all kinds of views on the subject, so there's likely nothing left to be said. I honestly hope, for your sake, there is a Heaven and you end up there. I mean, if that God exists, or any other reason exists for you to go to Heaven, at least one worthwhile person should get that reward."

I'm probably more of a hypocrite than you are.  Probably more of an asshole.  You're probably (hopefully) neither a hypocrite or asshole.  I am, very often indeed, even though I try not to be, boy do I fail a lot.

"I'm totally an asshole, all the time. I find, often, someone's gotta be willing to be the asshole to get stuff done."

I hate things a lot.  I hate people sometimes.  Sometimes I hate people so much I want to kill them.  If you never do that, then you're probably a better person than me.  I hope you don't mind my admitting to having this horrible tendency though.  I know it's wrong to hate people and certainly wrong to want to kill people, and I hope to eventually become mature or caring enough to stop hating and wanting to kill people, but I'm not that mature or caring yet.  Are you?  Perhaps you can help me learn how to do that too.

"I don't 'know' that it's wrong to hate people. Why is it wrong to hate and not wrong to love? They're two sides of the same thing... I bet you don't even really *hate* people in the way you use that word. 'Hate' is the opposite of love, it's a consuming, dark feeling, and I have a fuck of a lot of it. I have a black pit of it deep in my soul, and I hate the fuck out of a lot of things. I just happen to have a lot more love, because I'm that kind of person. I love quickly and deeply, because I don't think there's any other way to be. Also, I find it hard to find people both worthy of my time, and worthy of my ire, which are things I would say are both necessary for hate."

"There are lots of people I think are worthless, meaningless trash, but I don't hate them. They're worthless, and I wouldn't save their lives if someone paid me, but hate requires an investment of my time. It requires my ire, a continued, echoing, spiteful feeling..."

"Of course, this plays into your description of the meaning of words, but if hate is the opposite of love, it should be its equal opposite. If you don't hold malice towards a person on the same level that you can love another, I just wouldn't call it hate."

"As for wanting to kill people... Lots of people deserve to die, I don't begin to understand this idea that people intrinsically have a right to live that goes above and beyond their actions. Life is paid for with life, constantly, to say that life itself has a value is to say that it costs more than it is worth, and that everyone deserves to die. Every day you wake up, it's probably because millions of microorganisms died to keep you alive, and everytime you eat you're killing something (or at least allowing something to die to keep you alive, even if it's a plant, who are you to say a plant has less value than you). If you were to subsist entirely on human meat (assuming this was a reasonable thing to do), it would take hundreds of humans to keep just one alive."

"So if you're above killing or destroying a life, either you've deemed non-sapient things as less than yourself, or you need to seriously consider suicide. This isn't just directed at you, rick, or an attack, it's a logical progression of thought. If one is to have a philosophy, they should consider every aspect of it."

Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #319 on: December 11, 2012, 09:37:19 PM »
Can you hear me, major Tom
(What's the frequency, Kenneth?) 
No babyfood this time.  No babies.  Lock him up and throw away the key!



... I believe that I should spend every part of my life either learning or trying to be happy, and if I'm not doing one or the other, I'm wasting time. I waste a lot of time, but humans are flawed that way, doesn't mean I should encourage it."

If you don't mind the questions -- and don't answer if you don't feel like it, of course -- why is learning such a high priority for you?  Also, how do you tell whether you're happy or not -- do you define it as pleasurable feelings, or something else?  Finally, why is it that wasting time is a bad thing to do?

These questions are not an attempt to criticize your perspective but merely an attempt to understand it better.  I'm always interested to learn what people care about most in life and how and why they live the way they do.  Not everyone thinks much about such broad topics, of course, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.  I do though.

Quote
"I dunno, that's just my thoughts. I know that it doesn't change the fact that loss hurts, and I feel for you, I just don't know how to empathize the way most people do about death. I have felt a great loss in my life once, I know how much that sucks, but if I could go back in time, I'd tell myself to suck it up and not ruin years of his (my) life over it."

I see great value in the mourning process but know very little about it; I have yet to lose one of my closest loved ones.  (Well, not to death, at least.)  It sounds like you're being awfully hard on yourself here; I hope you try not to beat yourself up too much over things.

I beat myself up over far too many things far too often, but I try not to, and I'm learning not to.

Quote
"Not all human suffering comes from other humans... However, I don't care either way. My objection to God doesn't come from 'why do bad things happen?' I think that's kinda shallow and self-involved.

Sorry that I misunderstood or misinterpreted your position.  It's a bit funny for me to hear someone say that human suffering doesn't matter or that it seems shallow or self-involved to think about it; that may or may not be true, but it's been an unavoidable topic of interest to me for my whole adult life, at least in part because my mental illness (depression) involves frequent and intense emotional or psychological forms of pain/suffering.  You too, right, Ryu?  Being bipolar?  But I suppose different people have different responses to things.

Quote
My objection to God comes primarily from being told I'll be punished if I don't worship him, or even just that he deserves worship. I think that's even more shallow and self-involved. If someone demands worship, no matter their power, they probably don't deserve it. I won't be ruled because I'm afraid of the consequences, that's called tyranny."

This doesn't sound unreasonable to me, and I confess that I don't have a ready-made response to it, but here are some of my personal thoughts on these subjects.

Christianity claims that things are a certain way whether people believe that things are that way or not, and whether people like how it is or not.  Furthermore, it claims that people can know how things are, because the truth about reality was made available to everyone, in Christianity itself; and finally, it also claims that the truth about reality is actually really really good news.  It's the best news there is.  The truth is beyond wonderful, it's so wonderful that it boggles the mind, it's hard to get one's head around it.

This is why it's so important in my opinion for each person to at least look into Christianity enough that they clearly understand its claims, and many people do not seem to understand those claims properly because there's so much misinformation out there.  I think -- hope -- that each person takes the trouble to consider Christianity seriously and learn about it before tossing it out the window, because it might be true -- Christianity has not been disproven by science or logic; none of the counter-claims or counter-evidence make it possible to totally rule it out.  Many people look into it, I suppose, and still reject it afterwards.  That's too bad in my opinion, but it's way better than never looking into it in the first place.

It's not as easy as it should be for non-Christians to get a clear reading of what Christianity actually does and does not say.  That's the fault of Christians, because we all do a great fuckin' job of misrepresenting Christianity and convincing lots of others that it's full of shit.  The only way to get a clear picture is to listen to the Christians who know what they're talking about and ignore all the jackass Christians who are full of crap.  Which of those two categories do I fall into?  Others have to decide that for themselves.  I believe the truths I've been taught by trustworthy Christians and try to share those truths in turn with others, without being disrespectful, and in the most honest way that I am capable of.  Sometimes I do okay with that, and sometimes I fuck up like crazy.  :)  (hehehehe keep readin' ...)

I'm discussing this stuff here because I want to, not because you, Ryu, or anyone else needs to pay attention to me.  I trust you to use your own judgment and skim through or ignore stuff that I say that either doesn't interest you or sounds like bullshit to you ... and we all know this blog has plenty of both!  heh.

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"I'm sure you don't see it that way, or if you do now, I'd be pretty amazed. Still, that's how I feel about it, and I've thought about it plenty for... about a decade now. Stupid people and intelligent people have told me all kinds of views on the subject, so there's likely nothing left to be said.

This is very good to hear; if you have heard about Christianity from people who seemed "intelligent," which I hope means something like they seemed reputable or relatively trustworthy compared to all the stupid crackpot Christians, and if you thought about the things those people told you, that's all anyone can expect.  ... Except that there is more to be said.  Perhaps I'm not the one to say it to you, or to anyone out there, but what I think doesn't matter, really. 

The truth is out there waiting for each of us, and it is chasing after us.  You and me both.  It wants us.  It will not stop chasing you or me until each of us breathes our last breath.  Anyone -- anyone -- who looks for the truth can and will find it, eventually, as long as they don't give up the search.

Those are my opinions and my beliefs.  Already each one of us knows so many true things, and we each have so much we can learn from each other and teach each other. 

I hope and pray that none of us stop looking until we find it.

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I honestly hope, for your sake, there is a Heaven and you end up there. I mean, if that God exists, or any other reason exists for you to go to Heaven, at least one worthwhile person should get that reward."

This is very kind of you, Ryu.  :)  But of course I deserve nothing better than you or anyone else, and I've done nothing better than what you or anyone else has done to merit any better of an outcome.  We are the same, my friend (if I may presume to call you that); we are all the same ... And the truth is that none of us deserve any rewards, but the nice thing about that is that it also means that all of us are equal.  Equally undeserving, and equally given the same access to the same gift, any time we choose to accept it.

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"I'm totally an asshole, all the time. I find, often, someone's gotta be willing to be the asshole to get stuff done."

Yeah, I get that, but that makes a person sound less like a real asshole and more like someone good or useful.  I don't think I'm better than you, and I don't really think you're better than me in any big way, but still, I think I'm often an asshole, and I have yet to be convinced that you are one.  So go figure.  I can bend my logic if I feel like it.  :)

I often think other people are assholes, but that's because I'm arrogant and judgmental.  I'm learning not to be though!  Slowly.

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"I don't 'know' that it's wrong to hate people. Why is it wrong to hate and not wrong to love? They're two sides of the same thing... I bet you don't even really *hate* people in the way you use that word. 'Hate' is the opposite of love, it's a consuming, dark feeling, and I have a fuck of a lot of it. I have a black pit of it deep in my soul, and I hate the fuck out of a lot of things. I just happen to have a lot more love, because I'm that kind of person. I love quickly and deeply, because I don't think there's any other way to be. Also, I find it hard to find people both worthy of my time, and worthy of my ire, which are things I would say are both necessary for hate."

"There are lots of people I think are worthless, meaningless trash, but I don't hate them. They're worthless, and I wouldn't save their lives if someone paid me, but hate requires an investment of my time. It requires my ire, a continued, echoing, spiteful feeling..."

"Of course, this plays into your description of the meaning of words, but if hate is the opposite of love, it should be its equal opposite. If you don't hold malice towards a person on the same level that you can love another, I just wouldn't call it hate."

It's a popular misconception, in my opinion, that hate is the opposite of love.  Hate is not the opposite of love.  Indifference is the opposite of love.  In order to hate something, you have to care about it; you have to think it's important; it has to matter to you.  Otherwise you wouldn't bother to hate it; as you correctly point out, hate takes time and energy and attention.

(None of the rest of this is directed at you, necessarily, Ryu; I've just used your comments as a springboard to wander into something that is directed at anyone reading along.)

It's better to hate Jesus than to simply not give a shit about him.  It's better to hate Christians than to simply ignore them or not give a damn about them.  The ones who care enough to hate are closer to the truth than the ones who don't give a shit.  The ones who don't give a shit -- oh, man.  That's so far gone.  That is the danger; that is the end.  And that is the temptation, the big lie of this day and age.

Hate the Christians.  Me too, hate me too.  Hate them, burn them, stone them, curse them.  Because they represent something that cannot be tolerated.  It is offensive, and if it doesn't offend you -- if Jesus doesn't offend you -- then Your not paying attention.  (link.)

Aargh.  I'm telling you, it's all in the Dostoyevsky, in "The Grand Inquisitor."  Jesus turns up one day on planet Earth, and you know what happens?  The man at the very top of the Christian church wants to destroy him.  He knows exactly what Jesus represents, the threat, the offensiveness, the danger; and he knows that he cannot let this Jesus live.  Just like the first time around; it was the religious leaders who were out to kill him, because they knew exactly what he represented, and they could not and would not allow it.

That is the reality of Christ:  we must bow to him, or be broken by him. 

Fuck this bullshit about Jesus being a role model. 

Fuck this bullshit about Jesus being a wise man, a great teacher. 

Lies!  Bullshit!  Don't fucking buy it, not for a second! 

He was God.  We give him everything, we give up everything else and everyone else and follow him, or else we lose everything.  There's the choice that each one of us must make.  And each one of us makes it; one choice or the other; there is no third option.

Dylan said it!  "You Gotta Serve Somebody".  He's been acting like a crazy fool for decades now, people expect it from him.  He knows things the rest of us don't; bet on it.

Do you think you can ignore Christianity and go about your life?  You cannot; no one can.  You must give up your life to Christ or else you will lose it.  He said it himself.

Do this.  Go find a Christian and punch them in the face.  Tell them God told you to do it; see if they thank you.  If they don't, hit 'em again. 

Keep punching out Christians until you find one that doesn't respond the way that all the others do.  Then talk to that person.  He or she might have something important to tell you.  All the rest were full of shit and had it coming to them.

If you run into me and punch me in the face, I don't know what I'll do; I know what I hope I would do.  Maybe someday I'll find out.

I'm telling you, the lies are so thick.  We are each and every one of us blind, deaf, and dumb, stumbling around, trying to find our way.  So much darkness.  Liz Phair, pre-bullshit:  "For every truth there are half a million lies".  She knows a thing or two as well.  Knew at least.

I might regret posting this, but there's something here; something hear.  Something you need to hear.  Probably something I need to hear.  Or needed to say.  Something.

I can't be trusted; I'm not good or wise.  I don't have all the answers.  I don't have the answers you need, you, whoever is reading this.  I don't; I can't give you the truth.  Jesus does.  If you can see past me altogether, if you can look beyond me, somehow, you might get a glimpse of truth, but you have to get past me first, my bullshit half-assed fucked-up insane attempts to draw something alive out of this fucking dead nightmare whirlwind all around us.  I'm screaming into the whirlwind.  Don't even try to listen to me. 

Listen to it.  To the whirlwind.  Then come back and tell me what you learned, because I. need. to. know.

Since the dawn of Christianity, Christians have been expecting the end of the world to happen any moment now, in their lifetimes.  Everyone else always laughed and will continue to laugh.  The thing is that they were all right, all of them.  The time is short.  The end is nigh, it's right around the bend, but there's still time for you and me, and that's what matters.  You; you.  and me.







I wonder sometimes what it takes to get at the truth any more.  All the old ways and old words are used up and empty, polluted, corrupted, evacuated, hollow.  Cussing a whole lot helps, in my opinion.  :)  Can't hurt!  Went a little nuts with the links there.  Matthew, Paul, Dostoyevsky, R. A. Zimmerman, Marilyn Manson, John Lydon.  If you're gonna steal, steal from the best!  And put 'em back to back.  I'd rather throw my lot in with an honest Christian-hater than most Christians I've met.  Not all though.  Thanks for reading (?), ya'll ...

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #320 on: December 11, 2012, 10:44:05 PM »
If you don't mind the questions -- and don't answer if you don't feel like it, of course -- why is learning such a high priority for you?  Also, how do you tell whether you're happy or not -- do you define it as pleasurable feelings, or something else?  Finally, why is it that wasting time is a bad thing to do?

"Most of those questions are entirely subjective and philosophical. Learning is important because it is. I could give you a bullshit spiel about how I believe that the ultimate goal is to be reincarnated again and again, and learn everything there is to know (or something like that) so that your soul may begin to accept a Nirvana-like state. However, I only accept or believe that because I believe learning is important, not the other way around. My beliefs serve the purpose of reinforcing my own state of mind, and are based on about as much nothing as any religion. However, the difference is, I'm not hung up on it, and I'd never evangelize or harm someone over my 'religion'."

"How do I know I'm happy? Again, this is basically, because I do. I am happy when I feel happy, when I am satisfied and pleased (both mean different things than just 'happy', and both are important). It's very simple, yet those two words have such deep, rich meanings behind them. I think everyone should truly explore what it means to be both of those things. Hell, I can't say that's even all there is to it."

"As for why wasting time is a bad thing... because I, Ryu, the Earth human, have only so much time. I don't plan to live that long, fuck that, life's a bitch. I plan to live exactly as long as it takes to be done with life, and when I feel like I'm done, I'm out. That might be tomorrow, or a decade from now, or when I'm 50, but it won't be when I'm too old to give a shit. My soul can move on, or it can not exist, I dunno... However, that won't be me, that entity won't have my life, so I can't rely on how much time it may or may not have."

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I see great value in the mourning process but know very little about it; I have yet to lose one of my closest loved ones.  (Well, not to death, at least.)  It sounds like you're being awfully hard on yourself here; I hope you try not to beat yourself up too much over things.

I beat myself up over far too many things far too often, but I try not to, and I'm learning not to.

"I was a shitty person in my late Middle School, early High School years. I fucked up a lot of things, and even if I learned from it, I know I could've done better. I think it's important that I look back and remember how shitty I was, so I can remember not to be that shitty now."

"As for the mourning process, I don't value life, so I don't value mourning. In fact, I find it extremely irritating, because there are so many better things to do than to mourn. Remembering, reflecting, and moving on are all important, but mourning implies more than any or all of those things, and all the extraneous stuff is of little value to me."

"Others can mourn, and I'll give them my condolences, but I just can't empathize with it."

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Sorry that I misunderstood or misinterpreted your position.  It's a bit funny for me to hear someone say that human suffering doesn't matter or that it seems shallow or self-involved to think about it; that may or may not be true, but it's been an unavoidable topic of interest to me for my whole adult life, at least in part because my mental illness (depression) involves frequent and intense emotional or psychological forms of pain/suffering.  You too, right, Ryu?  Being bipolar?  But I suppose different people have different responses to things.

"Note. I'm not saying suffering doesn't matter, period. I'm saying, it has nothing to do with my perception of God."

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This doesn't sound unreasonable to me, and I confess that I don't have a ready-made response to it, but here are some of my personal thoughts on these subjects.

Christianity claims that things are a certain way whether people believe that things are that way or not, and whether people like how it is or not.  Furthermore, it claims that people can know how things are, because the truth about reality was made available to everyone, in Christianity itself; and finally, it also claims that the truth about reality is actually really really good news.  It's the best news there is.  The truth is beyond wonderful, it's so wonderful that it boggles the mind, it's hard to get one's head around it.

"Yeah, no offense, but that means jack crap to me. In fact, to me, it's like saying, 'Hitler and Stalin have come back from the dead and resolved their differences, and it turns out Europe's on their side... Isn't that great news?!' Telling me something shitty, but also assuring me it's actually amazing, is patronizing, and way worse than just telling me something shitty."

"This isn't to say Christianity is that awful, but I hope the overall message is clear."

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This is why it's so important in my opinion for each person to at least look into Christianity enough that they clearly understand its claims, and many people do not seem to understand those claims properly because there's so much misinformation out there.  I think -- hope -- that each person takes the trouble to consider Christianity seriously and learn about it before tossing it out the window, because it might be true -- Christianity has not been disproven by science or logic; none of the counter-claims or counter-evidence make it possible to totally rule it out.  Many people look into it, I suppose, and still reject it afterwards.  That's too bad in my opinion, but it's way better than never looking into it in the first place.

It's not as easy as it should be for non-Christians to get a clear reading of what Christianity actually does and does not say.  That's the fault of Christians, because we all do a great fuckin' job of misrepresenting Christianity and convincing lots of others that it's full of shit.  The only way to get a clear picture is to listen to the Christians who know what they're talking about and ignore all the jackass Christians who are full of crap.  Which of those two categories do I fall into?  Others have to decide that for themselves.  I believe the truths I've been taught by trustworthy Christians and try to share those truths in turn with others, without being disrespectful, and in the most honest way that I am capable of.  Sometimes I do okay with that, and sometimes I fuck up like crazy.  :)  (hehehehe keep readin' ...)

"Here's the thing. I'm on board when you tell me there's a God, I'm even on board if you tell me he's a great guy. The moment you lose me is when you tell me he insists that I worship him, and then give me a bunch of stupid, shitty, back-asswards stories. Fuck science, at least within the context of 'scientific knowledge as perceived by humans', I take everything there with a grain of salt because humans are awesome at messing that shit up. Logic, however, may not have God's number, but it's got Christianty's."

"I don't want to debate on that topic, but the basic point is... I don't think God, even a vague semblance of the Christian God, is stupid. Christianity, however, is a bunch of people speaking on God's behalf, thinking they're stupid is not the same thing."

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This is very good to hear; if you have heard about Christianity from people who seemed "intelligent," which I hope means something like they seemed reputable or relatively trustworthy compared to all the stupid crackpot Christians, and if you thought about the things those people told you, that's all anyone can expect.  ... Except that there is more to be said.  Perhaps I'm not the one to say it to you, or to anyone out there, but what I think doesn't matter, really.

"The thing is, the 'truth' is not lost on me. There's nothing to be said, because even if you convinced me that all the things Christianity says are 'true', all you've done is convinced me that the universe is held in check by a tyrant. Anything you could say to convince me otherwise, would be pointless, because you wouldn't be convincing me to support the same God. If the God you want me to support doesn't care who I worship or what I do, I pray to him all the time, seriously I do. I don't know if he exists, and I don't care, because if he's worth my time, he doesn't need shit from me except for me to try to be a good person. If that's the God you're trying to convince me of, then I'm already praying to him, but he isn't the 'Christian' God."


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It's a popular misconception, in my opinion, that hate is the opposite of love.  Hate is not the opposite of love.  Indifference is the opposite of love.  In order to hate something, you have to care about it; you have to think it's important; it has to matter to you.  Otherwise you wouldn't bother to hate it; as you correctly point out, hate takes time and energy and attention.

"By your reckoning, hate IS the opposite of love, not indifference. Indifference is the opposite of caring, but you have to care to both hate and love, as you said. It's like saying 0 is the opposite of a positive number, or neutral is the opposite of good. Indifference is the middle ground, when you don't love or hate something, it's 0."


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It's better to hate Jesus than to simply not give a shit about him... ~Lots of stuff~

"I don't hate Jesus. That dude, if he existed (and I don't at all believe he was God or his son), was awesome. He's about the only good thing the Bible's got in it. However, he's about as awesome as any other guy in history who was awesome. I'm not worshiping Roosevelt (the president, either one, they were both badasses) or Ben Franklin or Tesla... Okay, I might worship Tesla..."

"Anyway, I'm not about to bother hating Christians... If I hate Christians, it's only because they often fall into the broader category of stupid people, and are only worth my hate because there are so many that it's impossible to ignore them."

"Still, I respect anyone's decision to worship whatever they want, if they aren't douchebags about it. I like you, rick, because you're a bit of a blowhard, but you're honest. You're willing to admit you are full of shit, even if its not with regards to God, and if your worst flaw is that you like to talk too much about something important to you... That's cool."





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Cussing a whole lot helps, in my opinion.

"Actually, this is true, depending on the topic. Swearing or exclaiming releases endorphines, it's why you bitch and shout when you get hurt, it makes you feel good again. Bet you learned something today... If not... oh well, it's cool that you knew that anyway."

Offline rick957Topic starter

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #321 on: December 11, 2012, 11:43:59 PM »
I didn't know there was body chemistry involved.  I just figured I was being evil and cool by saying lots of four-letter words.  :)

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"Yeah, no offense, but that means jack crap to me. In fact, to me, it's like saying, 'Hitler and Stalin have come back from the dead and resolved their differences, and it turns out Europe's on their side... Isn't that great news?!' Telling me something shitty, but also assuring me it's actually amazing, is patronizing, and way worse than just telling me something shitty."

Well, this is kinda weird.  :)  Maybe this is one of those popular misconceptions that people have about Christianity.  Let's see ...

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"Here's the thing. I'm on board when you tell me there's a God, I'm even on board if you tell me he's a great guy. The moment you lose me is when you tell me he insists that I worship him, and then give me a bunch of stupid, shitty, back-asswards stories. Fuck science, at least within the context of 'scientific knowledge as perceived by humans', I take everything there with a grain of salt because humans are awesome at messing that shit up. Logic, however, may not have God's number, but it's got Christianty's."

Human logic is not entirely compatible with Christianity, but the flaw is in the humans and their logic, not in Christianity.  IMO.  But leaving that aside for the moment.

The "news" of Christianity is this:  There is a God; he loves each one of us; he wants to have a relationship with each one of us.  To know us directly.  To connect with us directly.  He has arranged a way for that to happen, and it's not hard at all, for any of us.  All we do is hear a few things about Jesus and believe those things, and that's it.  Then we each get to know God directly.

That was all of it.  Now we're done!  :)  If someone told you there was something else involved (not just you Ryu, but anyone who reads any of this), well, whoever said that was wrong.

This notion that God wants people to worship him sounds potentially deceptive, perhaps even dangerous.  It sounds like God wants people to do something for him.  Bullshit.  The good news of Christianity is not that God wants us to do something for him, it's that he wants us to believe in what he has already done for us.  He made it possible for you and me to know him, to have a relationship with him.  Imagine becoming friends with God.  It's better than that even.  Imagine having God as a loving parent who wants nothing more from you than for you to trust him, and if we each do that, then we have nothing but goodness and happiness to look forward to, forever.  No joke.  That's the claim.

Not to push you to believe it, or not; but it's not about doing anything difficult or unpleasant.  It's not about "doing" anything at all except making a simple choice to believe a few simple things.  I suppose that is sort of like doing something, but it's so easy to do that it's odd to think of it that way.  All the work is done for us; we couldn't do it if we tried.  That's part of the point.

There are Christians walking around who think the point of their life is to go do lots of good stuff because God wants them to, or because it will please him.  Aaaaaaa.  Argh.  This is a filthy evil fucking lie.  Anyone who believes that is horribly mistaken.  It's completely upside down and backwards.

That's what I think of when you use that phrase that he insists you worship him.  He does not insist anything.  He asks us to believe that he is real and he loves us more than anyone else ever has or ever will.

All I'm saying is, what's not to like about that?  :) 

Here's how "worship" comes into it, but it doesn't happen first.  First one believes in God's love, in Jesus.  Then one actually experiences that love firsthand.  This is a thing that really happens.  Everyone who believes gets to experience God's love directly.  No one else gets to do that, unless they choose individually to believe.  Once people experience God's love directly, all of a sudden everything in their life changes, and changes for the better.  When that happens, Christians feel gratitude and awe and joy and happiness and other good stuff, so then, they want to worship God.  We do it because we love him and we have received his love.  It's not a duty or a chore; it's a natural response to the bliss of being loved by him.

I hope that didn't sound like I was preaching at anyone.  But I promise you that's exactly how it is.  I've done it, so I know.  But you shouldn't believe me; you can find out for yourself (anyone, I mean), if it sounds like something you would want.  Of course there's more to it, but the other details do not contradict anything I just said.

It's very hard for me to imagine why anyone would not want to be loved by the most powerful and wonderful being in the universe.  That's the news, and that's all he wants from anyone:  for you to let him love you.  If you've heard otherwise, you have been lied to.  The people who lied to you probably had very nice intentions and were probably just repeating the lies they were told by other misguided people.  Don't believe it! 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 11:55:09 PM by rick957 »

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #322 on: December 12, 2012, 12:14:00 AM »
"So you don't believe in the Ten Commandments?"

"As for the whole, 'letting God love me'... Yeah, sure, that's cool, it's not my business if he loves me. I'm not into it, though, what's he done for me? Not to say he needs to do shit for me, but if he doesn't, then I don't have a whole lot of reasons to give a shit what he does. Yes, doing things for me is a prerequisite to me loving you. It's not a prerequisite for me to respect you, but that's not the same thing. I don't need the whole lot of nothing 'He' has to offer. I sure as hell don't need solace, and if he's offering Heaven, well, I'll go ahead and be a good person and when he lets me into Heaven, I'll love him then."

"I seriously just have better things to do than worry about God. Even if he is powerful and wonderful, all that does is change it from 'Hitler and Stalin are coming' to 'Hitler and Stalin are still dead! Isn't that wonderful news?!' Nothing's changed and I still have shit to do. More important things than giving a single crap whether or not God exists or cares. If God's a wonderful being, he should understand that, and if he's not, then fuck him."

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #323 on: December 12, 2012, 12:15:43 AM »
"By the way, I'm not challenging your beliefs, this is an interesting debate and I'm just saying how I feel. I don't know that it's even going to go anywhere, I'm honestly having fun just talking about it. If at any point, you feel offended or you're *not* having fun, we need to stop."

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Re: rude & ridiculous rants + polite but painfully-slow prattle with passers-by
« Reply #324 on: December 12, 2012, 12:24:51 AM »
Rick: You amuse me. Even if your literary composition is shite half the time, it's amusing. Lets make babies.

Kidding. Or am I?

~J