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Author Topic: Winter is Coming...  (Read 37161 times)

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Offline Stella

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #525 on: June 08, 2014, 05:47:21 AM »
I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #526 on: June 08, 2014, 05:51:26 AM »
I thought it was hysterical, then I got too distracted trying to identify the figures. XD

Offline BCdan

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #527 on: June 09, 2014, 12:24:28 AM »
The Watchers on the Wall episode spoiler (S4E9)
Drop the sides?  OH! You mean drop the scythe. 

« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 11:06:59 AM by BCdan »

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #528 on: June 09, 2014, 04:47:57 PM »
Hello, everyone! Let me tune in to discussing the show - a bit late, I know...

I was wondering: are you satisfied with season 4? Because I admit that I'm not. Somehow, it's not working for me at all... :(

For once, I can't understand why HBO made Oberyn and his lover (I forgot her name) into sex crazies? I may be misremembering things, but I don't think that they were presented that way in the books. In the show, half of their scenes take place in the brothel! What's up with that, HBO?

Overall, I feel that the show is getting worse and worse... What do you think?

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #529 on: June 09, 2014, 04:51:40 PM »
I thought Oberyn was absolutely spot on. In my opinion Pedro Pascal played him like he just stepped out of the book.

Yum.

And I do remember them being in stark contrast with the rest of the Westerosi of King' Landing - being openly bisexual and that...

Offline Stella

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #530 on: June 09, 2014, 04:53:46 PM »
I thought Oberyn was absolutely spot on. In my opinion Pedro Pascal played him like he just stepped out of the book.

Yum.

And I do remember them being in stark contrast with the rest of the Westerosi of King' Landing - being openly bisexual and that...

I agree. Perfect casting right there.

I've been happy with season four for the most part!

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #531 on: June 09, 2014, 04:56:40 PM »
I thought Oberyn was absolutely spot on. In my opinion Pedro Pascal played him like he just stepped out of the book.

Yum.

And I do remember them being in stark contrast with the rest of the Westerosi of King' Landing - being openly bisexual and that...

Really??? Hum...  ???

Where exactly was Oberyn's bisexuality mentioned? Not arguing, just genuinely curious... I must've missed that completely.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 05:03:22 PM by Beorning »

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #532 on: June 09, 2014, 05:04:52 PM »
I think I remember the exchange when he said "When it comes to love I don't choose sides and enjoy both of them equally." Only in the books he says it to Tyrion as opposed to that whore.

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #533 on: June 09, 2014, 05:17:29 PM »
Hmmmm. Maybe I did miss it, then.

BTW. Jouzi, what did you think about the added material this season? Bran being at Craster's home and so on...

Offline consortium11

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #534 on: June 09, 2014, 05:49:58 PM »
Really??? Hum...  ???

Where exactly was Oberyn's bisexuality mentioned? Not arguing, just genuinely curious... I must've missed that completely.

In pretty much his first appearance (where Tyrion meets him) we get the following:

Quote
He knew the man only by reputation, to be sure . . . but the reputation was fearsome. When he was no more than sixteen, Prince Oberyn had been found abed with the paramour of old Lord Yronwood, a huge man of fierce repute and short temper. A duel ensued, though in view of the prince’s youth and high birth, it was only to first blood. Both men took cuts, and honor was satisfied. Yet Prince Oberyn soon recovered, while Lord Yronwood’s wounds festered and killed him. Afterward men whispered that Oberyn had fought with a poisoned sword, and ever thereafter friends and foes alike called him the Red Viper.

That was many years ago, to be sure. The boy of sixteen was a man past forty now, and his legend had grown a deal darker. He had traveled in the Free Cities, learning the poisoner’s trade and perhaps arts darker still, if rumors could be believed. He had studied at the Citadel, going so far as to forge six links of a maester’s chain before he grew bored. He had soldiered in the Disputed Lands across the narrow sea, riding with the Second Sons for a time before forming his own company. His tourneys, his battles, his duels, his horses, his carnality . . . it was said that he bedded men and women both, and had begotten bastard girls all over Dorne. The sand snakes, men called his daughters. So far as Tyrion had heard, Prince Oberyn had never fathered a son.

As for his whoring, from the same interaction:

Quote
“While we are speaking of amusement, I heard a curious tale from Lord Buckler’s steward. He claimed that you had put a tax on women’s privy purses.”

“It is a tax on whoring,” said Tyrion, irritated all over again. And it was my bloody father’s notion. “Only a penny for each, ah . . . act. The King’s Hand felt it might help improve the morals of the city.” And pay for Joffrey’s wedding besides. Needless to say, as master of coin, Tyrion had gotten all the blame for it. Bronn said they were calling it the dwarf’s penny in the streets. “Spread your legs for the Halfman, now,” they were shouting in the brothels and wine sinks, if the sellsword could be believed.

“I will make certain to keep my pouch full of pennies. Even a prince must pay his taxes.”

“Why should you need to go whoring?” He glanced back to where Ellaria Sand rode among the other women. “Did you tire of your paramour on the road?”

“Never. We share too much.” Prince Oberyn shrugged. “We have never shared a beautiful blonde woman, however, and Ellaria is curious. Do you know of such a creature?”

From later on when he meets Tyrion in his cell:

Quote
The man took a sip, sloshed it about in his mouth, and swallowed. “It will serve, for the moment. I will send you up some strong Dornish wine on the morrow.” He took another sip. “I have turned up that golden-haired whore I was hoping for.”

“So you found Chataya’s?”

“At Chataya’s I bedded the black-skinned girl. Alayaya, I believe she is called. Exquisite, despite the stripes on her back. But the whore I referred to is your sister.”

“Has she seduced you yet?” Tyrion asked, unsurprised.

Oberyn laughed aloud. “No, but she will if I meet her price. The queen has even hinted at marriage. Her Grace needs another husband, and who better than a prince of Dorne? Ellaria believes I should accept. Just the thought of Cersei in our bed makes her wet, the randy wench. And we should not even need to pay the dwarf’s penny. All your sister requires from me is one head, somewhat overlarge and missing a nose.”

In one of the Winds of Winter sample chapters it's also noted that he and Daemon Sand were rumoured to be lovers.

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #535 on: June 09, 2014, 06:02:21 PM »
Ah, thanks. I wonder why I forgot about these bits...

Offline consortium11

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #536 on: June 09, 2014, 06:08:34 PM »
I think I remember the exchange when he said "When it comes to love I don't choose sides and enjoy both of them equally." Only in the books he says it to Tyrion as opposed to that whore.

I'm fairly certain that was a line invented for the show.

The books heavily imply that Oberyn is bisexual (albeit in the form of "there were rumours" style insights by the POV characters) but they don't flat out say it in the way the show presented it.

Truth be told we arguably got less characterization of Oberyn in the novels then we did the series. In the novels he only really plays a major role in three scenes (the first conversation with Tyrion when he arrives, the one in the cell and the trial by combat itself) two of which are as much general exposition on Dorne and its recent history (including one paragraph where he literally just reels off titles) as they are insight into him... most of the insight we get is from Tyrion's thoughts on the aforementioned rumours.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #537 on: June 09, 2014, 06:13:16 PM »
You do have a point. Given that Westeros doesn't particularly favor gay interactions, it's probable he wouldn't admit it aloud.

I am looking to HOPEFULLY see Doran Martell in the next ep... and Areo Hotah. Really really hope.

Wasn't particularly happy with the last recast of the Mountain. The actor was huge, fine, but he was about as fearsome as Hodor, which isn't really the Mountain.

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #538 on: June 09, 2014, 06:45:09 PM »
What about the Daario recast? Which of the two actors do you prefer?

Personally, I prefer... neither. None of them fits the mental image I have of Daario...

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #539 on: June 09, 2014, 09:54:15 PM »
I've only read the first book for sure, it was a long time ago and I remembered a lot of stuff that happened in the second season, so I probably read the second as well, but honestly, they're ponderous to me.

That said, I'm glad the show is not trying to be the books, and I honestly can't stand when people complain that things on the screen don't match things in the books. Sometimes truly bad choices are made, or really interesting moments are left out for no good reason (Tom Bombadil being left out of the first LotR movie is something that bugs the hell out of me, especially since it wasn't even in the extended versions, and it speaks so much to the Ring). However, time constraints are a valid reason, pacing is a valid reason, and even moreso is the reason that the story is being retold in full, which is the case I see with GoT.

Luckily, GoT pulls ratings so hard that I can just sit back and watch book readers bitch (not all of them, and I'm glad for the one's that don't) and enjoy what the writers and directors masterfully place in front of me. I definitely appreciate the book readers who know how to keep spoilers to themselves, but are willing to give insights into the books for those who only watch the show.

Okay, so in response to the most recent question, I prefer the new Daario. I don't really like the character much, which might be a holdover from how little I liked his original portrayal. What I've heard about his incarnation in the books, however, makes me pretty glad they went a very different way with him.

Offline Darkmoon

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #540 on: June 15, 2014, 07:09:34 AM »
Big fan of the book series since 2003. I can assure viewers tonight's episode will be full of top tier surprises.

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #541 on: June 15, 2014, 02:45:23 PM »
I just watched episode 8 (I'm behind, as I'm recording the episodes and waiting for my sister - we watch them together). Please tell me one thing, people: what's the deal with...

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
... Sansa revealing her identity to lords of the Vale??? Doesn't it blow the whole book 5 out of the water? Strange...

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #542 on: June 15, 2014, 03:00:00 PM »
It's how they dealt with the fact that they omitted Marillion from the tale - she told the Lords of the Vale some truth, thus earned credibility and their trust, so they then believed her when she confirmed
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Lysa's death was suicide.

Basic manipulation.

If you do notice, though, they did dye her hair black at the end of the ep when they leave the Erie.

What about the Daario recast? Which of the two actors do you prefer?

Personally, I prefer... neither. None of them fits the mental image I have of Daario...
Neither fits my image of Daario either, but I actually preferred the other one.

If you think about it, Daenerys has had a number of burly knights(ish) around her all her life. The current Daario, Jorah Mormont, Barristan Selmy, Khal Drogo... they are all the same archetype, only in various stages of decay.

Last season's Daario was different. He was sly, he was smarmy. Very different, so it made that much sense for Dany to be so head over heels into him.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 03:04:59 PM by jouzinka »

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #543 on: June 15, 2014, 03:15:47 PM »
Interesting observation about Daario! Although I'd say that the current actor fits the book's original better (but where's the painted beard?).

Regarding the spoiler:
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Doesn't this change destroy Sansa's whole plot from book 5? In Dances, Sansa's story is that she pretends to be Littlefinger's bastard daughter and tries not to be recognized. And it doesn't happen! In the series, she admits to other people who she is... so, no plot for her. And the potential dynamics of her plot for book 6 are grossly changed, too...

I wonder if that change won't come back to bite the showrunner's in the butt.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #544 on: June 15, 2014, 03:39:20 PM »
I guess they will give her something different - they already sped up the learning process.

I mean... the way she told Littlefinger "I know what you want."

That was awesome. ;D

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #545 on: June 15, 2014, 03:47:36 PM »
Hm. We'll see...

BTW. Regarding Oberyn - watch this video (warning: spoilers for episode 8!):

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

I don't know where the comic bits are from, but *that* is like I envision Oberyn! The show's actor didn't look too good to me...

Offline BCdan

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #546 on: June 16, 2014, 12:01:48 AM »
Well that was a good season finale, I wish every episode was extra long like that one.



Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #547 on: June 16, 2014, 12:09:45 AM »
It wasn't extra long. It was an hour long like the rest.

And that was one hell of a MAJOR deviation from the books tonight.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #548 on: June 16, 2014, 01:44:14 AM »
Why? Just... why? :-/

Leaf was cute, though.

Offline roulette

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #549 on: June 16, 2014, 02:04:26 AM »
It was something like 10-15 minutes longer than usual, at least lately.

It's weird to say, but I think my soul is hurting much, much more from this episode than most any of the ones that have happened so far. Most of the big moments have been shock value. This episode was certainly shocking all around, but it wasn't like one moment where you're just open-mouthed for that one thing. There was just a lot of misery and such.

Edit: Happy Father's Day! ;D
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 02:06:08 AM by roulette »