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Author Topic: Winter is Coming...  (Read 37159 times)

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Offline RhapsodyTopic starter

Winter is Coming...
« on: April 01, 2012, 04:58:27 PM »
Game of Thrones, Season 2 Episode 1, tonight!

Who's with me?

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 08:57:22 PM »
Sooooo cannot wait to see Ceresi and Joffery get what is coming to them! Awesome first episode of Season 2

Offline RhapsodyTopic starter

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 09:21:36 PM »
I couldn't watch the last few minutes, but otherwise, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Man, those direwolves are huuuuge.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 09:46:21 PM »
The last few minutes of the first episode will make you hate Cersei more than ever lol

Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 10:24:12 PM »
I was, personally, impressed by the digital effects and CGI.  Specifically with the dragons and Grey Wind (Robb's direwolf).

As always, if you're doing to discuss plot points from the books that haven't been seen yet, please cover it with a spoiler:

Code: [Select]
[spoiler]Spoilery text goes here![/spoiler]
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
I heard that Eddard Stark gets killed off before the season ends!

Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2012, 10:27:14 PM »
Oh, and Rhapsody, the last few minutes were mostly concerned with

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Joffrey hunting down and killing all of King Robert's known bastards, to eliminate any possible claim to the throne.

I particularly liked the scene where

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Cersei confronts Littlefinger and reminds him that, while knowledge may be power, and he may be Minister of Coin, she can still have him killed off whenever she wishes.

I can't remember if that scene was in the book.  I don't think it was.

Offline RhapsodyTopic starter

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 05:59:03 AM »
Oh, and Rhapsody, the last few minutes were mostly concerned with

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Joffrey hunting down and killing all of King Robert's known bastards, to eliminate any possible claim to the throne.

Yes, I know.

Offline Shjade

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 01:52:10 PM »
Eh...I have to admit, the show kinda lost my interest when they skipped over the dwarf's entire battle scene by having him KO'd before it started instead. That's a bad precedent to set in your first season of a series like this. :|

Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2012, 06:00:07 PM »
I think it was a matter of production values and sheer logistics.  I think the producers thought, "yes, we could spend millions of dollars setting up an elaborate battle scene with thousands of extras, choreography, and sets, or we could just show Tyrion sleeping through the whole thing and arrive at mostly the same place."  I really can't fault them for that decision.

Offline Shjade

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 06:37:33 PM »
...or we could just show Tyrion sleeping through the whole thing and arrive at mostly the same place."

I'd say there's considerable distance between "the snotty bitter dwarf gets knocked out by his own men and sleeps through the war" and "the snotty bitter dwarf actually mans up (to a degree) and learns some things about himself and the world in surviving a real battle," in terms of where you arrive after the event is over. It was a fairly important character development moment and they decided, Nah, not important.

If they were going to black-screen it, at least cut it off with him charging in with the rest, then cut to afterward where he's beaten up, bloodied, but was there and involved. It's not just that they skipped it, it's how they did the skipping.

Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2012, 06:38:33 PM »
I have to concede the point, Shjade.

Offline RhapsodyTopic starter

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2012, 07:22:04 PM »
Tyrion in a lot of ways is comic relief. He's a strong character with demons and issues, but he's a funny character. And I got a good laugh from him being bashed in the head by happenstance while his men were charging, but yeah... The battle could have been done just as well.

I think it was a matter of production values and sheer logistics.  I think the producers thought, "yes, we could spend millions of dollars setting up an elaborate battle scene with thousands of extras, choreography, and sets, or we could just show Tyrion sleeping through the whole thing and arrive at mostly the same place."  I really can't fault them for that decision.

It's HBO. They don't tend to stress about budgets the same way other entertainment companies do.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2012, 07:42:19 PM »
I was not so upset about Tyrion being bashed in the head and knocked out for that particular battle. Now, if they do the same with the next one ....

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Where he ends up with his face disfigured

.....then I will be upset.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2012, 08:35:32 PM »
I still have more than two thirds of the book to finish, so no watching for me yet. :-\

Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2012, 09:32:08 PM »
How did you guys think they portrayed Stannis and Melisande?  Personally, they weren't quite what I had pictured.

Offline Shjade

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2012, 10:10:19 PM »
I was not so upset about Tyrion being bashed in the head and knocked out for that particular battle. Now, if they do the same with the next one ....

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Where he ends up with his face disfigured

.....then I will be upset.
Yeah, this is what I meant about it being a bad precedent. :\

I mean really, with him having been one-shot KO'd by his own guys in his first battle, how is anyone going to believe he can actually look after himself in the later, larger, even more chaotic battle to come? To anyone who hasn't read the books it's going to look like a massive "wtf when did he learn how to fight" moment. ...unless they just remove his part in it, which is going to make later plot points completely messed up.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 10:12:13 PM by Shjade »

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2012, 10:26:24 PM »
For some reason I pictured Stannis as a bear of a man. Other than being surprised at his stature, I think they nailed it with the attitude. "I didn't love him and he didn't love me."

Melisande - yeah. She fit what I pictured.

Also - Shjade, if they remove Tyrion's part in it they are going to either have to find a way to explain the changes in him or remove those too. And if they remove those, I will be upset - because that is integral to the character.

Offline Shjade

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 04:26:23 AM »
Exactly.

Offline Anjasa

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 07:48:16 AM »
Eh...I have to admit, the show kinda lost my interest when they skipped over the dwarf's entire battle scene by having him KO'd before it started instead. That's a bad precedent to set in your first season of a series like this. :|

I don't like battle scenes, so I thought it was fantastic, personally.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2012, 01:57:48 PM »
I think they skipped and changed -so- much in the first season that the battle change is just a speck of sand in a desert. :-[

Offline RhapsodyTopic starter

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2012, 04:16:54 PM »
They didn't really change a whole lot besides that.

Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2012, 06:59:10 PM »
There are significant changes.  For example, the character of Ros, a prostitute who leaves Winterfell and journeys south to King's Landing, never appears in the books although she gets significant screen time in the series:


Her presence, however, fleshes out the characters of Tyrion, Theon Greyjoy, and Littlefinger, so I certainly see why the scriptwriters invented her.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2012, 07:21:20 PM »
They didn't really change a whole lot besides that.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Besides that they made everyone at least two years older (which makes Sansa even dumber and puts a lot of things out of perspective), besides removing Littlefinger's interest in Sansa, which in turn makes Jorah Mormont sound like an utter creep for his interest in Daenerys, besides making Ned incredibly flat, naive and bordering on dumb, besides removing a lot of Tyrion's style and class and leaving only the boor, besides ridding Tywin Lannister of the epic buildup he received in the book, besides stripping most of Catelyn's wits (namely in the battle with the Mountain Men, but not only there), besides totally failing to convey the grittiness of Westeros...

I liked a lot of the minor things they did, but way too many of the major ones changed, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 07:22:59 PM by jouzinka »

Offline Shjade

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2012, 07:40:24 PM »
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Besides that they made everyone at least two years older (which makes Sansa even dumber and puts a lot of things out of perspective), besides removing Littlefinger's interest in Sansa, which in turn makes Jorah Mormont sound like an utter creep for his interest in Daenerys, besides making Ned incredibly flat, naive and bordering on dumb, besides removing a lot of Tyrion's style and class and leaving only the boor, besides ridding Tywin Lannister of the epic buildup he received in the book, besides stripping most of Catelyn's wits (namely in the battle with the Mountain Men, but not only there), besides totally failing to convey the grittiness of Westeros...

Littlefinger's interest don't really bloom until a bit later on, as I recall, do they? Plenty of space for that to develop in season two. Jorah is a creep. Ned is a fairly one-dimensional guy whose sense of honor completely blinds him to the way the world actually works; it's only made more obvious because the story is compressed, putting his many, many mistakes all into one short space rather than stretching them out across the entire book (thereby making his foolishness not quite so apparent at a glance, but there none the less)...

They didn't really change the core of the characters all that much. The changes that are there are in large part due to the medium's limitations, time being the biggest one. The dwarf's absent opportunity to prove himself in combat is one of the larger examples of something directly changing in an existing character. Aside from that, the new made-up characters, like Ros (Roz?), are bigger changes to the story than most anything else, and they're pretty much just there for exposition fodder.

That and all the extra sex. The books have a lot of sex in them, too, but...not quite that much. At least not on the page, where the reader has to sift through it to get on with the story.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2012, 07:50:35 PM »
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Littlefinger's interest don't really bloom until a bit later on, as I recall, do they? Plenty of space for that to develop in season two. Jorah is a creep. Ned is a fairly one-dimensional guy whose sense of honor completely blinds him to the way the world actually works; it's only made more obvious because the story is compressed, putting his many, many mistakes all into one short space rather than stretching them out across the entire book (thereby making his foolishness not quite so apparent at a glance, but there none the less)...

They didn't really change the core of the characters all that much. The changes that are there are in large part due to the medium's limitations, time being the biggest one. The dwarf's absent opportunity to prove himself in combat is one of the larger examples of something directly changing in an existing character. Aside from that, the new made-up characters, like Ros (Roz?), are bigger changes to the story than most anything else, and they're pretty much just there for exposition fodder.

That and all the extra sex. The books have a lot of sex in them, too, but...not quite that much. At least not on the page, where the reader has to sift through it to get on with the story.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Littlefinger makes himself pretty apparent as soon as the Hand tourney. Mormont is creep? With all respect due, not by the rules of that world. Ned's world, the North, actually works the way he behaves, but we never get to see that in the series.