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Author Topic: Winter is Coming...  (Read 37102 times)

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Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #350 on: June 04, 2013, 04:10:11 PM »
X-posted from the Hilarity! thread


Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #351 on: June 04, 2013, 04:11:32 PM »
The third one... is what happens in the epilogue. I don't dare spoiling *that*!  ;D

If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, we'll most likely see it next week.

Offline Rogue

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #352 on: June 04, 2013, 05:49:44 PM »
If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, we'll most likely see it next week.

Heard rumors that if what we're talking about is what I think it is, we won't be seeing it until next season. Because HBO is being run by evil santa.

Offline Formless

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #353 on: June 04, 2013, 05:56:40 PM »
OK this whole " What I think is what I think " remind me of this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV-2

Specifically during 0:50-1:05 :P

Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #354 on: June 07, 2013, 03:53:23 PM »

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #355 on: June 08, 2013, 11:29:53 AM »
As much as I would love to see the next big shocker in Storm of Swords, everything points to it being part of next season. Which would mean there would be two shocks coming next season for those that have not read the books.

What I am finding funny is all the comments around the net where people who haven't read the books are screaming "I'm not watching anymore! He's cruel! It's wrong! It was suppose to be a happy ending!" To which I can only think "First, nothing guarantees a happy ending and second, who said it wouldn't be a happy ending... just with someone else?" In all honesty, I do not expect a happy ending. GRRM writes realistically and he does not write fairy tales. Expecting Prince Charming to swoop in and save the day with his perfect consort/Queen is just... well... ridiculous.

Offline Formless

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #356 on: June 08, 2013, 11:51:15 AM »


What I am finding funny is all the comments around the net where people who haven't read the books are screaming "I'm not watching anymore! He's cruel! It's wrong! It was suppose to be a happy ending!" To which I can only think "First, nothing guarantees a happy ending and second, who said it wouldn't be a happy ending... just with someone else?" In all honesty, I do not expect a happy ending. GRRM writes realistically and he does not write fairy tales. Expecting Prince Charming to swoop in and save the day with his perfect consort/Queen is just... well... ridiculous.

Well said.

One of the main traits of George Martin in this book series is how he isn't reluctant to kill of a character. Now I am waiting for certain characters to meet their demise in the last two books. I can hardly wait. >:)

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #357 on: June 10, 2013, 09:44:04 AM »
I am confused. Well, that is a normal state of things, but now more so than ever. I am at an utter loss why would Varys beckon Shae to leave for Tyrion's sake.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
For reasons revealed at the end of Dance with Dragons, Varys' loyalty does *not* lie with the people of Westeros (although he presents it so heartfelt) and it is not his aim to see the realm restored. For all we know, this state actually serves him *very* well, so... is he betting that she would be more likely to stay and help tear Tyrion down when he tries to nudge her away?

Also, something that just nudged me today. The Boltons were made Wardens of the North, supposedly until Tyrion's son by Sansa comes of age. As if... Tywin thought the Boltons were just going to give up the title then? That doesn't really sound like Tywin to me; can he truly know them so little and so bad? Roose has just back-stabbed the Starks... I know that one of Tywin's wisdoms is to be generous with enemies once they bent the knee, but giving them a title and then expecting them to give it back after they've rid the land of invaders (the Ironborn) doesn't sound too much of a gift to me....

Offline Rogue

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #358 on: June 10, 2013, 10:03:13 AM »
I am confused. Well, that is a normal state of things, but now more so than ever. I am at an utter loss why would Varys beckon Shae to leave for Tyrion's sake.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
For reasons revealed at the end of Dance with Dragons, Varys' loyalty does *not* lie with the people of Westeros (although he presents it so heartfelt) and it is not his aim to see the realm restored. For all we know, this state actually serves him *very* well, so... is he betting that she would be more likely to stay and help tear Tyrion down when he tries to nudge her away?

Also, something that just nudged me today. The Boltons were made Wardens of the North, supposedly until Tyrion's son by Sansa comes of age. As if... Tywin thought the Boltons were just going to give up the title then? That doesn't really sound like Tywin to me; can he truly know them so little and so bad? Roose has just back-stabbed the Starks... I know that one of Tywin's wisdoms is to be generous with enemies once they bent the knee, but giving them a title and then expecting them to give it back after they've rid the land of invaders (the Ironborn) doesn't sound too much of a gift to me....

Most likely plans to marry the families together or have an accident come to the bastard "Bolton" and place Sansa's son in his care as ward. Thus, when the elder Bolton dies, he'll place the Sansa's hypothetical child as the Warden of the North, making it of Stark blood. After all the Bastard is the only Bolton left and he sure as hell isn't going to be made Warden of the North.

Dance With Dragons spoiler
Of course this doesn't matter as Sansa won't be having a child by Tyrion anyways, nor do we know if the Lannisters will even hold Casterly Rock by the end of this

As for Varys... imo, he views Tyrion as someone he'd like to keep around and we know Shae is just a problem waiting to happen....
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
I mean Tyrion finds Tywin fucking her. Come on now...
That or his aim is to break him completely... Who knows what the Spider is thinking.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #359 on: June 11, 2013, 08:00:26 AM »
There are so many things that are changed in the show that I am constantly going "errr...". Like....

Feast For Crows spoiler
Jeyne (Talisa in the show) was not at the Red Wedding and you find out in Feast For Crows that her mother conspired with Tywin to engineer Jeyne's marriage to Robb solely for the purpose of destroying Robb, the Starks and the northern army by betraying (breaking Robb's oath to) the Frey's (... which Tywin engineered the whole Red Wedding with late Lord Frey) so that her son could be made Lord of Castamere and her daughters could gain noble husbands. With them putting Jeyne (Talisa) at the wedding are they not bringing out this bit of information?

As for Varys trying to send Shae away... I was a little surprised by that considering that....

Storm of Swords spoiler
She is instrumental in Tyrion and Sansa being 'convicted' of Joffrey's death.

A coworker of mine who watches the show (but has never read the books and is constantly asking me how the books portrays the episodes) made a hypothesis that was quite interesting. It is obvious that this is not a happily ever after book nor is it a book of a son avenging his father's wrongful death. He theorizes that the central plot still hasn't truly been seen and that it is actually between Baelish and Varys.  Both are playing a massive game of chess - moving people where they want them (or at least attempting to while trying to keep others in line - ex: Cersei) but you haven't really seen exactly what they're main goals are. It is definitely something that had me thinking last night and pulling out Feast For Crows and Dance With Dragons again since....

Feast For Crows spoiler
I remember well that Varys disappears at the same time as Tyrion and Cersei elevates Qyburn to position of spymaster.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 08:02:35 AM by Iniquitous Opheliac »

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #360 on: June 11, 2013, 10:04:07 AM »
If that's the case, then we haven't see the central plot after how many years books?

Offline Nameless One

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #361 on: June 11, 2013, 10:32:22 AM »
I think that for Season 3 HBO did a better work than for Season 2... I experienced far less WTF-moments. Maybe the choice of splitting Storm of Swords in two seasons gave the team more time to work on the details.

I was SO hoping to watch the full Unsullied force kick ass at Astapor, with their perfect combat technique and discipline! But I fear large battles are too expensive...

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #362 on: June 11, 2013, 03:02:08 PM »
There are so many things that are changed in the show that I am constantly going "errr...". Like....

Feast For Crows spoiler
Jeyne (Talisa in the show) was not at the Red Wedding and you find out in Feast For Crows that her mother conspired with Tywin to engineer Jeyne's marriage to Robb solely for the purpose of destroying Robb, the Starks and the northern army by betraying (breaking Robb's oath to) the Frey's (... which Tywin engineered the whole Red Wedding with late Lord Frey) so that her son could be made Lord of Castamere and her daughters could gain noble husbands. With them putting Jeyne (Talisa) at the wedding are they not bringing out this bit of information?

The whole Talisa story arc is actually my biggest WTF moment. This is exactly what I mean when I say that when the writers are leaving out characters, changing them or replacing them, they are doing so in an environment that is still alive and changing; the changes can come around and bite them.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
As in... theories are rampant about Jeyne Westerling not really being THE Jeyne Westerling by the end of book five, due to discrepancy of her description between Jaime and Catelyn (sorry for spoiling *that*).

So, if Jeyne actually really escaped and she is pregnant with Robb's child, the writers of the show possibly do have a big problem.

Edric Storm? I don't find that story arc too redundant either.

I think they are purposefully dumbing Tywin down. I don't know why, but that's about the only explanation I can come up with. They don't have enough screen time to "explain" him, so they just turn him into another piece on the chess board.

As for Varys trying to send Shae away... I was a little surprised by that considering that....

Storm of Swords spoiler
She is instrumental in Tyrion and Sansa being 'convicted' of Joffrey's death.

A coworker of mine who watches the show (but has never read the books and is constantly asking me how the books portrays the episodes) made a hypothesis that was quite interesting. It is obvious that this is not a happily ever after book nor is it a book of a son avenging his father's wrongful death. He theorizes that the central plot still hasn't truly been seen and that it is actually between Baelish and Varys.  Both are playing a massive game of chess - moving people where they want them (or at least attempting to while trying to keep others in line - ex: Cersei) but you haven't really seen exactly what they're main goals are. It is definitely something that had me thinking last night and pulling out Feast For Crows and Dance With Dragons again since....

Feast For Crows spoiler
I remember well that Varys disappears at the same time as Tyrion and Cersei elevates Qyburn to position of spymaster.
I actually think that Varys and Baelish work together. Remember
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
it was Petyr who persuaded Lysa to poison Jon Arryn and had her write to Catelyn that it were the Lannisters, thus starting the whole shift and rebellion. And Varys is nursing the (IMHO) fake Aegon Targaryen to get on the throne.

The only question I have is whether it's unfolding to their satisfaction.

I was SO hoping to watch the full Unsullied force kick ass at Astapor, with their perfect combat technique and discipline! But I fear large battles are too expensive...
I guess they are. They don't even have money for the direwolves, which play a greater part in the books and are vital to the Starks. And I miss them. :(

Offline Aiden

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #363 on: June 11, 2013, 03:25:10 PM »
Considering the popularity of the show, shouldn't that mean they can have a bigger budget?

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #364 on: June 11, 2013, 04:13:37 PM »
Depends on their contract with HBO, I guess. I also think that the fact that GRRM has to be co-producing it for the show to be made speaks volumes.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #365 on: June 11, 2013, 10:45:37 PM »
HBO is making money off the show to be sure - 5.4 million viewers watched the Season 3 finale (that is just subscribed customers and not counting those that stream it through other sites) so you know they are raking in the dough - and yes, Game of Thrones is one of their, as they call it, tent pole shows for one quarter of the year. But they arent going to spend an exorbitant amount on the show. Between set costs, location costs, actors, extras, cgi, insurances, camera crews, etc, etc, etc they are already spending quite a bit of money. There is also the fact that they have to get everything into a one hour time slot and have something like 13 episodes for the season. Kind of makes it hard to go full blown theatrical with the battle scenes. 

Now then - this is worth a laugh. Have fun with the season 4 spoilers!   :o

GRRM gives season 4 spoilers... hilarious

Offline Polymorph

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #366 on: June 12, 2013, 11:27:56 AM »
Hodor.

Offline Rogue

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #367 on: June 12, 2013, 12:04:41 PM »
If that's the case, then we haven't see the central plot after how many years books?

Seeing as we're only getting "side" plot lines (Notice how no king has had a POV: ie: any of the Baratheons, Joff, Robb, etc) and specifically GRRM said no king POVs ever. Not to mention Baelish and Varys will never see POVs since he also said no more new POVs. (Sorry if this is spoilers, but those of you who haven't seen the books still have many fun new people left.) I'm not surprised that we won't know what the actual final plot will be until the last book... or maybe the next one...(It is named the Winds of Winter...)

speculation/potential spoilers
Some have guessed that the true story arc is between the Whitewalkers and the Red God and having to deal with the reawakening of magic by Daenerys and her hatching those Dragons.
End of Dance with Dragons
Not to mention if Melisandre manages to save Jon with her Red God magic. I mean after Thoros resurrected Catelyn it's not that unsurprising that Melisandre would resurrect him since she keeps seeing "Snow" in the fires.
Personally, my theory is that the south is showing how the Westerosi mess up before the long winter comes. Because, as is being shown with it being Autumn and all, and pardon me using the saying but it's appropriate as all get out, winter is coming. And most likely the Whitewalkers with it.

Offline Formless

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #368 on: June 12, 2013, 12:13:38 PM »
I wonder if GRRM believes in a " never ending world " . Where conflict continues and the story we follow is simply one of an era.

The way he portrays the motivations and greed of some houses and their lords , can tell that he doesn't believe in true peace. One king may finally reign as supreme ruler. But soon will be thrown or decay and another cycle of war begins.

Offline Synecdoche17

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #369 on: July 12, 2013, 08:09:35 PM »
I wonder if GRRM believes in a " never ending world " . Where conflict continues and the story we follow is simply one of an era.

The way he portrays the motivations and greed of some houses and their lords , can tell that he doesn't believe in true peace. One king may finally reign as supreme ruler. But soon will be thrown or decay and another cycle of war begins.

The Targaryens ruled for hundreds of years before the current chaos.

Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #370 on: July 12, 2013, 10:36:42 PM »
I wonder if GRRM believes in a " never ending world " . Where conflict continues and the story we follow is simply one of an era.

The way he portrays the motivations and greed of some houses and their lords , can tell that he doesn't believe in true peace. One king may finally reign as supreme ruler. But soon will be thrown or decay and another cycle of war begins.

I think I read an interview once where he said something very close to that effect.  Rather than writing for his characters, as most stories do, he simply writes for the realm.  Heroes and villains come and go, but Westeros persists.

Offline Formless

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #371 on: July 13, 2013, 04:10:44 AM »
The Targaryens ruled for hundreds of years before the current chaos.

I know ... But I meant that what we're reading and watching for years is one era only.

I think I read an interview once where he said something very close to that effect.  Rather than writing for his characters, as most stories do, he simply writes for the realm.  Heroes and villains come and go, but Westeros persists.

Exactly what i mean. I got this notion when he started doing away with the Starks. xD

Offline Stella

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #372 on: July 13, 2013, 04:26:01 AM »
Given the power of the Whitewalkers, there's a good chance that anyone who is still alive by the last book might all have to band together to fight off what's coming from the North...

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #373 on: July 13, 2013, 11:08:54 AM »
'Last'?  What is this 'last' you speak of?  The thing from the North could be another whole series in itself!

Offline Rogue

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #374 on: July 13, 2013, 07:11:34 PM »
'Last'?  What is this 'last' you speak of?  The thing from the North could be another whole series in itself!

 :o Oni! I'd like this resolved before he dies! *is now even more scared*