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Author Topic: Winter is Coming...  (Read 36989 times)

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Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #225 on: May 14, 2012, 05:35:18 PM »
OK, for my "I told you" moment: I did say that Ygritte would lead Jon to Mance. ;D I doubt that Qhorin will make any more appearances.

I really like how they handled Jaime's escape without Riverrun and the story arc from the books, that was well done.

I actually enjoy the scenes of Arya and Tywin a _lot_, I think Maisie and Charles have a great chemistry together.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
But I think her escape will happen during the commotion of Tywin's march on King's Landing (not sure who will Weasel Soup free, though). Tywin now suspects she's highborn, I still wouldn't rule out the suspicion he connected the dots and that he thinks she's Arya, under no circumstance would he leave her behind.

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #226 on: May 15, 2012, 09:19:46 AM »
OK, for my "I told you" moment: I did say that Ygritte would lead Jon to Mance. ;D I doubt that Qhorin will make any more appearances.

I must tell you that I almost groaned yesterday, when the wildlings appeared. I really hoped it wouldn't come to this.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Still, I suspect that Qhorin *will* appear again. My guess is that he was captured by the wildlings, too. When in captivity, he will urge Jon to turn coat - and to kill him, so that Jon wins some trust from the wildlings... I'm trying to think like a show writers here: why bother even casting Qhorin, if you're not planning to do anything with him?
Quote
I really like how they handled Jaime's escape without Riverrun and the story arc from the books, that was well done.

I'm not sure I like it, myself...

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Jaime murdering his cousin in cold blood? It's too close to unrepentant evil - and, as we learn in Storm of Swords, Jaime's not as evil as other people think him to be. This whole captivity arc is supposed to be about Jaime deciding to redeem himself. A cold-blooded murder is not a good way to start such an arc...

Quote
I actually enjoy the scenes of Arya and Tywin a _lot_, I think Maisie and Charles have a great chemistry together.

Oh, these scenes are very nicely done, indeed. I'm just confused where does this whole subplot lead to...

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #227 on: May 21, 2012, 04:06:10 PM »
Hey Jouzi, I just watched the newest episode...

I was pleased to see that everything seems to be going according to my expectations...  ;D

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
See? Qhorin and Jon are now captives - and Qhorin seems to be setting up his own death. And Daenerys *will* go to the House of the Undying - and, then, she will sail to Astapor. I'm regaining my trust in this series. :)

On the other hand: no Weasel Soup?

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #228 on: May 21, 2012, 06:47:19 PM »
Hey Jouzi, I just watched the newest episode...

I was pleased to see that everything seems to be going according to my expectations...  ;D

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
See? Qhorin and Jon are now captives - and Qhorin seems to be setting up his own death. And Daenerys *will* go to the House of the Undying - and, then, she will sail to Astapor. I'm regaining my trust in this series. :)

On the other hand: no Weasel Soup?
I watched it this morning (for me, anyway). :-)

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Definitely, definitely glad that Daenerys will sail for Astapor (that still doesn't mean she will conquer all the three slaver's cities, I'm betting she will conquer only Astapor and Mereen). I adored the scene between her and Jorah when she told him that the Dragons are likely the only babies she's ever going to get. Emilia is so tiny and feminine, yet child-like against Iain, in that scene, even though it was moved to different location, the two of them looked as if they just walked out of the books. Loved it. <3

So very wrong on how the thing with Jaime played out, though. Rob was supposed to succumb to charms of a certain Lady (YAY for it being Talissa) before he learned that Cately set Jaime free, thus having forgiven her (and Catelyn him) even before they got together. This seriously messes the relationship between the two.

No Cleos Frey. :-\ And since there's no Bloody Mummers, I assume that it will be the Brotherhood Without Banners to cut off Jaime's hand. The same company that will eventually capture Arya and her friends.

No Weasel Soup :'( That was so, so clever plan. Moreover, though, Arya doesn't deserve the coin, in my opinion. You were right that she wanted to send Jaqen after Tywin. I'm really thinking of what now. The Mountain apparently stayed behind, does that mean that he won't be Cersei's champion for Tyrion's trial? :o That there will be no Oberyn Martell? :o But but but... that fight. o.O

I absolutely adored the whore scene with Tyrion and Cersei. Would have been happier to see Alayaya, but Ros made up for it nicely.

I wish there was more Davos. ;D

As far as Jon and Qhorin, though... that arc is so buggered. >.< Looks like they will lead him to Mance and it will be Mance's idea to keep Jon and kill Qhorin. I still keep fingers crossed for Mance not looking like everyone's grandpa. Rattleshirt looked every bit of the part, though. XD

Offline Lilias

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #229 on: May 22, 2012, 06:58:56 AM »
Next week... Blackwater Rush! \;D/ I think I have equal amounts of floatyhearts and dread for this.

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #230 on: May 22, 2012, 08:19:45 AM »
I watched it this morning (for me, anyway). :-)

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Definitely, definitely glad that Daenerys will sail for Astapor (that still doesn't mean she will conquer all the three slaver's cities, I'm betting she will conquer only Astapor and Mereen). I adored the scene between her and Jorah when she told him that the Dragons are likely the only babies she's ever going to get. Emilia is so tiny and feminine, yet child-like against Iain, in that scene, even though it was moved to different location, the two of them looked as if they just walked out of the books. Loved it. <3

So very wrong on how the thing with Jaime played out, though. Rob was supposed to succumb to charms of a certain Lady (YAY for it being Talissa) before he learned that Cately set Jaime free, thus having forgiven her (and Catelyn him) even before they got together. This seriously messes the relationship between the two.

No Cleos Frey. :-\ And since there's no Bloody Mummers, I assume that it will be the Brotherhood Without Banners to cut off Jaime's hand. The same company that will eventually capture Arya and her friends.

No Weasel Soup :'( That was so, so clever plan. Moreover, though, Arya doesn't deserve the coin, in my opinion. You were right that she wanted to send Jaqen after Tywin. I'm really thinking of what now. The Mountain apparently stayed behind, does that mean that he won't be Cersei's champion for Tyrion's trial? :o That there will be no Oberyn Martell? :o But but but... that fight. o.O

I absolutely adored the whore scene with Tyrion and Cersei. Would have been happier to see Alayaya, but Ros made up for it nicely.

I wish there was more Davos. ;D

As far as Jon and Qhorin, though... that arc is so buggered. >.< Looks like they will lead him to Mance and it will be Mance's idea to keep Jon and kill Qhorin. I still keep fingers crossed for Mance not looking like everyone's grandpa. Rattleshirt looked every bit of the part, though. XD

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
I was wondering about who's supposed to cut off Jaime's hand myself. I briefly suspected that it was going to be Gregor Clegane, but that makes no sense - he's a Lannister ally, he knows who Jaime is. Who knows, maybe Vargo Hoat will be introduced in Season 3 after all...

Regarding Cleos Frey - hey, I may be wrong, but I think he *was* shown in the series! Wasn't the name of the minor Lannister cousin Jaime murdered Cleos? I suppose they changed his surname not to confuse the viewers...

Regarding Arya - I keep wondering about the coin myself. Maybe's she going to do something to earn it in the next episode? Anyway, I don't mind her getting the idea of sending Jaqen after Tywin - in the book, she was actually sorry that she hadn't thought of it at the right time.

Regarding Mountain - hey, he has plenty of time to come back to King's Landing for Tyrion's trial. I wouldn't worry about that yet.

And I'm still convinced that it will be Qhorin's idea to sacrifice himself and have Jon infiltrate the wildlings.

Regarding next week's episode: I'm kind of worried myself. There's just no way they can show this battle in its full epicness... not with a TV series' budget. I know it's HBO, but it's still just a TV series.

Oh, and I'd like to make a prediction regarding Episode 10:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
The season's final scene will be the White Walkers's attack on the Night's Watch. I mean, it's the perfect cliffhanger, right?

Offline Lilias

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #231 on: May 22, 2012, 10:17:19 AM »
Regarding next week's episode: I'm kind of worried myself. There's just no way they can show this battle in its full epicness... not with a TV series' budget. I know it's HBO, but it's still just a TV series.

They won't.


Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #232 on: May 22, 2012, 10:40:25 AM »
I find it amusing that HBO saved budget money by not using weather machines, and instead just filming the scenes during actual bad weather.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #233 on: May 22, 2012, 11:04:07 AM »
Which all works fine until lightning strikes that overhead boom mike.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #234 on: May 22, 2012, 11:12:31 AM »
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
The season's final scene will be the White Walkers's attack on the Night's Watch. I mean, it's the perfect cliffhanger, right?
Yes, I think that Chett's prologue from Storm of Swords makes a great cliffhanger for the series. :-)

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #235 on: May 22, 2012, 11:25:47 AM »
Which all works fine until lightning strikes that overhead boom mike.

Well, now they're saving money on corpse makeup as well. :D
[/TVexecutivelogic]

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #236 on: May 27, 2012, 09:11:21 PM »
All things considered - I think the battle was alright. How dark it was became something of an aggravation but I dealt with it. Considering the budget I do not think they did bad. Drove home the hatred for Joffery and his mother.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #237 on: May 27, 2012, 09:32:43 PM »
I haven't seen the episode yet. :-\

But I have to say, I'm starting with Feast for Crows and reading about Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy gives me gooseflesh. Stunning character!

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #238 on: May 27, 2012, 11:04:01 PM »
"I will pray for your safe return, my Lord."
"Will you?"
"Just as I pray for the King's."

LMAOROTFLBTCSTCNDBFOOTWIFOAGWLLBGWTHROOTSAIAKBAYB XD

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #239 on: May 28, 2012, 10:54:49 AM »
Ok, a few things (I'll use spoilers so those who haven't seen the episode won't have it ruined)...

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
First - Tyrion's Chain. Not in the episode damn it. I was really hoping for it to be but oh well. Second - I think the reason I liked this episode better than the rest is because they actually showed the fear in the characters. The Hound - you see it when he is watching the fire, Tyrion as he is staring out over the bay, Joffrey, the soldiers (the one vomiting at the beginning). I liked the interaction between Davos and his son - common sense and logic vs fervent faith and enthusiasm. The interactions between Cersei and Sansa - you get to see the cynicism full force in Cersei with the way she tries to tell Sansa what it means to be queen.

Second - I love how they gave Tyrion his moments. They showed how intelligent he is - how very clever he is. And they showed that he has the balls to do what needed to be done to keep the army together when Joffrey abandoned the forces to retreat. I absolutely adored the fact that they showed The Hound's fear of fire - the crack in his armor so to speak. The last interaction between Sansa and the Hound - his disillusion with everything and her last ditch effort to cling to innocence and what she believes.

Third - Joffrey. Oh my Gods I have always loathed this character because of his despicable actions and personality! But for just a moment in this episode you see it in his face when he realizes he is an utter coward. He has, from the beginning, believed the tripe his mother has told him. He is the chosen one to sit on the throne, that everyone will bow to him, that he is this great warrior that everyone will bow to him just because of who he is.... and then he sees what battle really is. He sees the enemy coming and panics. He retreats in fear and leaves his people to live or die and knows deep down that he is nothing like his uncle (father) Jaime or his father (step father) Robert. There is also the moment after the wild fire is lit where he is watching the destruction - the look on his face is telling of his personality. He is enthralled with it. He likes the utter destruction, the screams from the soldiers dying.

Fourth - Cersei takes a bigger role in this episode. We see her hatred of her lot in life - how very much she rages against the fact that she is a mere woman and cannot fight. She understands that she and the other women are the spoils of war should Stannis win and she takes steps to ensure that those highborn enough to be invited into the room with her will not be those spoils. Callous? Yes. Realist? Most definitely. She's preparing for either outcome (like a smart person would). The way she so cruelly 'teaches' Sansa about the realities of being a queen, of how a woman's sex is her greatest weapon - so telling of how she views the world and her place within it. Even at the very end, when she is with Tommen on the throne, telling him the same story she told Joffrey of how it is his given right to have others bow to him because of who he is, is so telling of her mind.

Fifth - Sansa. Oh my gods I actually liked her in this episode! How she tried to goad Joffrey into going where the battle is thickest! You just know that she is making it clear she thinks him a coward and hopes he rises to the bait so that he dies. And then her comment to Shae about how she knows he will come back because the worst ones always live. You actually see how much she has learned about surviving in captivity in this episode, how she is strong despite how naive she is.

Now then, I've stated before that I absolutely love the character Tyrion. The other character that I adore is Varys. There is so much about him that is not shown in the shows - he is a complicated character with so many layers.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 10:59:32 AM by Iniquitous Opheliac »

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #240 on: May 28, 2012, 04:14:37 PM »
My reaction after seeing the episode: well, I guess they couldn't do anything better with the TV budget... A good episode, all things considered.

BTW. A question: somehow, when I read the book, I pictured the battle taking place during daytime. Have I missed something or did the show writers changed it so it would be easier to present the battle on TV?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 04:25:07 PM by Beorning »

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #241 on: May 28, 2012, 08:08:22 PM »
I too think that in the books the battle happened during the day, considering that Davos saw the chain glittering under the water.

It was probably a budget decision. Also, in the books they were oh-so-confident they would win - they didn't send scouts ahead, nothing, so it makes sense they would attack during the day.

More edit: I also found the lack of horses rather unrealistic, although I understand budgetary reasons.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 08:12:55 PM by jouzinka »

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #242 on: June 03, 2012, 11:53:06 PM »
Got sent this by Beorning, thank you, lovely... :-)

The Rains of Castamere by The National (Game of Thrones s02e09 End Credits)

Anyway, thoughts as I watch:

Why do they keep the best writing for the last ep?

The Others look awesome. ;D

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #243 on: June 04, 2012, 07:29:36 AM »
I love the way the Others look!

House of the Undying was a little disappointing, but hey - I got to see Drago again! Mmm... Drago.

I am still trying to decide who I dislike more - Margery or Cersei.

And, I'm ready for Season 3 now.

Offline Beorning

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #244 on: June 04, 2012, 04:17:30 PM »
Quote from: jouzinka
Anyway, thoughts as I watch:

Why do they keep the best writing for the last ep?

Agreed! Just watched it. This episode was *awesome*. And the cliffhanger..!!!

Offline Nameless One

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #245 on: June 07, 2012, 05:03:06 AM »
Great finale for season 2, even if I agree with Iniquitous Opheliac about the House of the Undying. And why did the made a traitor of Doreah??? Poor girl...

Margaery is a great character, very very dangerous in her sweet, soft, doe-eyed way!

And a small error I noticed (as a Faceless Men fan... What a nerd I am!):
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
When Jaquen says goodbye to Arya, he tell her that the names on her hit-list might be offered to the Red God - namely R'hllor, the lord of light and fire - one at a time. But he's a Faceless Man of Braavos and they have nothing to do with any Red God: they serve the Many Faced God, a god of death...

Maybe he told so to decieve Arya... And afetr all, it's really a tiny thing!  ::)

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #246 on: June 08, 2012, 06:54:54 AM »
Hello, Nameless One, welcome to E. :-)

I actually got a lot of WTF with what's happening with Dany. A lot of the things that weren't supposed to happen... did. The death of Rakharo, the death of Irri (or was it Jhiqui?)... Doreah, at least, was not supposed to make it to Qarth as she was supposed to die during the crossing of the Red Waste before they reached Vaes Tolorro (which is a whole arc that was very diminished in the series), so that makes things even on that front at least.

Likewise for the visions. I'm actually disturbed... a LOT. None of the originals were kept, although I do like the one one with Drogo and Rhaego, that was a nice touch. But... the whole point of them... :-\ They could at least include the vision of the Red Wedding. And, hum... no prophecy? Quite an important one, as far as later occurrences go.

The entire thing with Qhorin totally boggles my mind as to why change it so much. Anyway, I really laughed at Rattleshirt's: "You don't want this one coming after you." XD The Others looked amazing, but honestly... if this lot found Sam, he wouldn't survive. Nor are they, apparently, in any way this organized.

The whole thing with Robb and Talissa and wedding for love. >.< In the book, at least, he wedded Jeyne for honor. Really bold changes to the characters. My brain is still stalled from Cersei trying to poison Tommen.

I think they really summed up Margery with the: "I want to be THE Queen." I'm looking forward to see the Queen of Thorns appear, hope she makes the cut. :-\ She was great in the books and having her in puts a really grey area over who's behind what happens on Margery's wedding to Joff. I really hope they don't have Margery to plot all that herself. :-\

And Jaqen did tell Arya that she stole three souls from the Red God, R'hllor earlier in the series and in the books as well. I think it doesn't pertain as much to Jaqen's belief as a faceless man (which he wasn't supposed to reveal, by the way), as it does to the fact that the cart he, Rorge and Biter were chained to was on fire, which is R'hllor's domain, which means he would have gotten the three of them if she didn't throw them the axe. Also, since Braavos and Asshai isn't that far apart, I'm willing to bet that this many-faced God of Death is the one that Melissandre calls "the one who must not be named." Thus, they are two sides of the same coin and to believe in one, you have to believe in the other as well.

Or maybe Jaqen is just suggesting that R'hllor might take those souls, if she somehow offers them.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Given how Thoros of Myr repeatedly revived Beric Dondarrion whilst serving to R'hllor, I wouldn't be too surprised.

Too bad they couldn't keep the same actor for Jaqen, I think he did an excellent job. :-(

All in all, I keep thinking that these books didn't deserve a show with a tight budget. :-\

Offline Nameless One

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #247 on: June 09, 2012, 09:21:57 AM »
My SO would totally agree with you, she fell in love with Tom Wlaschiha (Jaquen version) as soon as she saw the teaser pictures...

And yes, looking at season 2 as a whole, there are lots of WTF moments... Especially the "across the Narrow Sea" part. As in:
- They crossed the Red Waste in single episode? And they arrive directly to Qarth?
- Xaro Xhoan Daxos proclaiming himslef the king of Qarth?
- The dragons kidnapped?
- No 3-betrayals-prophecy for poor Dany?
- Why make a traitor of Doreah  (if she's Doreah and not someone else)?

I had the impression that the gap between screenplay and novels widened in season 2, and althought it's not a bad thing on its own, many changes made the characters involved look... Dunno... Dumber? More naif? Like Dany and her stolen dragons. Or Robb marrying a Volantene herbalist (he, the KING!) in place of Jeyne. Or Jon getting taunted into fight by the Halfhand and not informed of his plan... -___-

Oh, and maybe you're right about the Many Faced Good, but I don't think he's the Red God's archenemy in Melisandre's rantings. In the novels, he (or it?) doesn't sound evil and destructive at all, but a quiet, somber God, providing eternal rest to troubled souls... I accept your bet.  ;D

Let's see who will be in Olenna Tyrell's thorny clothes. And the Blackfish? I like that man, let's hope for a good casting in season 3, too.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #248 on: June 09, 2012, 10:18:48 AM »
I think that we really have to think on how low a budget this series is and they apparently (and thankfully) decided to spend it on actors, this time.

But that means they have to do considerable shortcuts in the storyline as to include less locations and less characters because they don't have the money to spend on another actor and they don't have the screentime to introduce all of the characters from the books. I still mourn Brynden and Vargo Hoat. :'( I don't think we'll see either and I don't think we'll see Riverrun. Harrenhal is standing, I think Robb will retreat there and march North from there, if he moves at all between now and the Red Wedding. As far as the Westerlings, well... in the long run, it's not really important whether he marries Jeyne (unless she's supposed to become important later), who herself was no Princess, or Talissa, who apparently is of a higher birth, just that he marries someone and that someone isn't a Frey.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
It just takes away a considerable chunk from Tywin, who plotted the whole thing.

A few pages back I made a post that showed Sansa in three different episodes in the same dress - that does speak volume on how much they have to cut.

I too have a feeling that the show deviates more and more from the books. I don't mind it so much, but they are changing core characteristics of the characters and they are changing events that are potentially important (the Houses of the Undying). While I understand that they did away with Jacelyn Bywater, who died in the Blackwater battle and placed Bronn in the command of the gold cloaks and Cleos Frey for the same reason, I think that omitting Jeyne Westerling can become a problem, considering there are still two books to be written. And let's not forget about the Reed kids. I dislike that they leave the wolfs out so much as well. Ghost and Summer at least are essential for Jon and Bran.

It's actually a common thing to dumb someone down to make another character appear smarter. I've seen it in a lot of movies/shows and head-desked every time. ;D

Anyway, as far as the Narrow sea
- I think they crossed the Red Waste in two episodes, though you're right, it wasn't nearly as long or pricey as it should have been. Vaes Tolorro wasn't really that important. The only important thing that happened there was Dany realizing Jorah lusts for her, although it did give Mormont a few redeeming points too. Otherwise it was a completely expendable occurrence. Apart from Doreah's death on the way, maybe, but that in turn makes her an expendable character in Qarth that they could shut behind. Literally. XD
- I don't really get the arch with the King of Qarth either. I mean... if they meant to get rid of Xaro (and I'm sure we'll see him again, all hungry for revenge), it felt completely moot.
- Yeah, no three-something prophecy for Dany. We may yet hear it from Quaithe, though, instead of the "To reach West, you must go East" one... or maybe all of them.

I think that they are actually going to make Jon come up with the plan that was originally Qhorin's, although he did hint it to Jon. What I don't get is how is the 300 watchmen going to defend the Fist against that many Others long enough for some to escape. And Sam, Chett and whoever else outside it? Ehm... excuse me? :o

Offline Remiel

Re: Winter is Coming...
« Reply #249 on: June 09, 2012, 04:03:23 PM »
Quote
Or Jon getting taunted into fight by the Halfhand and not informed of his plan...

There was a moment, two episodes ago, when Quorin hinted to Jon of what he would have to do.  He said something like "a Watch man in Rayder's camp is worth a dozen out in the wilds."  So I suspect Jon had some inkling of what Quorin wanted.   I dislike, however, the way that, in the show, the whole reason that the rangers are captured by Rattleshirt and company was basically because of Jon fooling around with Ygritte.    It pretty much makes Quorin's death Jon's fault, whereas in the book it was pretty much inevitable. 

It will be interesting to see how the Red Wedding is set up without Edmure Tully.  The writers will have to come up with a reason for Robb and Catelyn to go back to the Freys.

Also, I was intrigued by the scene with Varys and Roz.  I wonder what Roz's future will entail, especially once
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Littlefinger leaves King's Landing for the Vale.