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Author Topic: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group  (Read 7983 times)

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Offline CaeliTopic starter

M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« on: January 26, 2012, 04:01:16 PM »
M.A.D @ Elliquiy
A Manga/Anime Discussion Group

Welcome! This is an online anime/manga club created for the purpose of gathering anime fans on Elliquiy so we can discuss TV anime series, manga, and anime films with other like-minded Elliquians. All fans are welcome, whether you're into mechas, magical girls, sports, or comedic fanservice.

Though discussions about related topics will also take place in this thread, we also vote on series to watch and discuss together. These series are not limited to any single genre. Even if you don't think it's something you'll enjoy, give it a try - you might surprise yourself, or at the very least, you'll be able to spice up any ensuing discussions that take place here!

Don't be shy, you can jump into the discussion at any time. ;D Introduce yourself, make some new friends, and be ready to have an excuse to watch more anime!





An Important Message Regarding Thread Policy and Elliquiy Rules

Before I begin, I would like to state as a disclaimer that I do not work with copyright law, nor am I an expert in the field, and thus anything that I say here is gathered from other sources, and my own interpretation and understanding of those sources. Where possible, I will provide links so you can also read them yourself and familiarize yourself with the information. It is not necessary nor required for you to read any of the external links provided in order to understand what I am trying to say.

This message exists because I would like to keep all activities and conversations in this group completely free of rule-breaking activity and infringement of Elliquiy's rules, especially this one:

Quote
5. This server is governed by the laws of the United States. You will not link to or provide warez, illegal pdfs or mp3s, and so on. Threats will be dealt with accordingly.

There is to be absolutely no discussion of how to find free episodes (or fansubs), where or how to download them, or where to stream them, etc. unless the source is a legal provider of the anime series in question. If you obtained your anime elsewise, please don't share how. That doesn't mean you can't watch fansubs or stream it somewhere not listed in the below; you just can't say how you got those episodes or where you watched them.

Below is just some general information about fansubs, their legality, and where you can find legal anime online that is purely for informative purposes.



The Legality of Fansubs
The Legality of Fansubs

Fansubs are illegal. The inherent creation and redistribution of fansubs violates most of the protections that Japanese copyright law gives to the creators of an anime. International treaties such as the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works allow for countries to protect their copyrights in other regions of the world (mainly, the signatories of said treaties). Thus, copyright applies even in countries where the series is not distributed.

A fellow anime fan put together a page that addresses myths and questions regarding fansubbing. I have reproduced the page in its entirety in the spoiler below in case the page is ever taken down. It is a very concise FAQ that answers the most common questions about fansubbing, and if you read nothing else, please read that.

Fansubbing: Myths and FAQ by DarkMirage
Fansubbing: Myths and FAQ
By DarkMirage - 11/12/2004

Recently, Media Factory Inc. issued a legal statement to AnimeSuki, requesting the removal of the site's BitTorrent listings for MFI intellectual properties. This turn of events took the fansubbing community by surprise as it was not an American company, but a Japanese one that made the request. The responses were loud and violent, as teenagers with questionable language abilities flocked to forums and chatrooms, each and every one of them eager to express his/her discontents through deep and profound posts that often consisted of words not exceeding four-characters long. The opinions expressed can generally be summarized as "confused" and "misguided", with some even nearing the realm of "retardation". This has significantly lowered my hopes for the future of humanity and so I have decide to create this semi-FAQ to facilitate my crusade against idiocy and ignorance. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against fansubs. I am part of a fansubbing group and I find fansubbers in general to be fine folks. I just hate those morons going on in forums about their constitutional rights to download and watch fansubs.

Pardon my poor English, for, unlike many of those forum-goers, it is not my mother-tongue.

Fansubs are legal.
The unauthorized reproduction and distribution of copyrighted material is far from legal. See: Copyright.

Fansubs are legal as long as the series in question is not licensed for distribution in the region where the fansubs are being distributed in.
Completely false. Fansubs are illegal whether the series is licensed for distribution or not. This is because the copyright (which is completely unrelated to the right of distribution) applies even in countries where the series is not distributed in. See: the Berne Convention, specifically the parts about nationality of author, rights of translation and rights of reproduction. Here's a full list of signatories to the Convention. It is interesting to note that the mere act of making an unauthorized translation available for public usage is already illegal, much less the actual copyrighted footage.

Fansubs are legal because they are not being done for commercial purposes.
False. Fansubs are illegal whether they are being exchanged for objects of monetary worth. Just like copies of pirated software are illegal whether they are being offered for download or sold at roadside stalls. See: Statutory Damages. As for the so-called "educational" purposes claimed by some fansubbing zealots, please refer to the question below.

Fansubs are legal in America and some other countries under the Fair Use / Fair Dealing clause.
No. No they are not. The unauthorized reproduction, translation and subsequent distribution of the entire length of a copyrighted animation is not protected by Fair Use in anyway whatsoever. The only protections Fair Use might give would be, for example, if you were to make a self-subtitled copy of a work you own legally and view it in your own privacy. This can include close friends and family, but whether all two hundred of your fellow anime club members count for close friends will be decided by the jury and not you. Using parts of a copyrighted work for the purpose of parodies, reviews, news report, teaching material etc. is also covered under Fair Use as long as they do not constitute a huge portion of the work in question. This means that fansubs do not qualify. For a more detailed explanation of Fair Use, see here.

Fansubs are legal... somehow.
No. They are not. Just give up already.

My friend/brother/uncle/cousin-twice-removed/random guy on IRC/etcetera told me that fansubbing is legal because of [insert reason here].
He/she/it lies.

If unlicensed fansubs are illegal, why were they tolerated? And why the sudden change?
To put it simply: fansubs helped to promote anime back when the word "anime" was not part of English and most animations on TV were Hana-Barbara, Disney and whatever else you Americans had. They were tolerated by Japanese companies for this purpose. Most studios also felt that it was not worth the effort to sue North American fansubbers, as they had, at that time, no assets in North America to protect. Suing could also potentially isolate their new fans and close up a potential market.

Today however, you ("you" being North Americans) can watch anime on cable TV, buy anime DVDs from any DVD stores, join an anime club in school and read about all the latest anime news on the internet. Fansubs today no longer play that single vital role in promoting a new series to foreign audiences. Yet because of their mass-availability through the internet, they are now hurting the sales of legitimate DVDs in North America, Asia and other regions. For this reason, Japanese companies have slowly started to take actions against fansubbers instead of waiting for a foreign distributor to do the job.

Japanese companies cannot sue American fansubbers and need to do it through American distributors.
False. Japanese companies have always been able to take legal actions against North American fansubbers. They just chose not to because they decided that committing the resources to do so was not worth the effort. Contracting an American law firm to represent you in US court is not exactly cheap and certainly time-consuming. It was, and still is, simpler to let an American distributor do the job. However, more Japanese companies are now willing to take actions directly to protect their interests due to developments in recent years such as the high broadband internet penetration and the exponential growth of anime subculture in North America.

I am poor! I can't afford legitimate DVDs! Those evil money-hungry companies have no right to make me pay so much for my anime!!!
The companies made those DVDs and the contents within. They, as the copyright holders, have complete control over what they want to do with their intellectual properties. No one is "making" you buy anime DVDs. You have logical thinking skills and free-will (or so I'd like to believe); if a product is overpriced, then don't buy it! As for companies being money-hungry, please see: Capitalism.

I don't live in North America or any place where legitimate anime can be purchased!
Tough luck. Entertainment isn't a basic human right. The companies have no obligations to make sure that their products are made available to everyone. It's not oxygen for god's sake.

If you find any factual errors in this FAQ, please feel free to e-mail me in a non-threatening manner. I will correct any mistakes ASAP.
You may use the contents of this page in anyway you deem necessary to raise copyright awareness in the fansubbing community.
2004 DarkMirage

Legal Streaming and Download Sites for Anime
Legal Streaming and Download Sites for Anime

One of the users on Crunchyroll created a list of legal anime streaming and download sites from which you can get your anime fix. I have provided a shortened list of the most popular sites in the spoilers below.

Quick notes about these sites:
- Most of these services are only available for the North American audience, unless stated otherwise.
- All the streaming sites, unless otherwise noted, offer free viewing of their content.
- If an episode is available for download, usually a nominal fee is required, about $1.99.

Legal Streaming Sites
crunchyroll: http://www.crunchyroll.com/
*http://www.crunchyroll.com/library/IndexAnime
- Basic membership lets the user view almost everything, but there is a "week" waiting period for the newer content.
- The site requires a Star Membership to use some of it’s features like “advanced” viewing, 480p or “720p” "quality," and to access some of it’s contents.
- Episodes can be purchased and downloaded here http://www.crunchyroll.com/store.
- The shows' episode release dates are here http://www.crunchyroll.com/launchcalendar.

FUNimation: http://www.funimation.com/
*http://www.funimation.com/video/
*FUNimation Download-To-Own Video Store: http://www.funimation.com/f_index.cfm?page=vod
*Veoh Channel: http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/publisher:FUNimation
- Shows update weekly with maybe one or two episodes.
- Episodes are available for download for $1.99.

The Anime Network: http://www.theanimenetwork.com/
*http://www.theanimenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_vods&Itemid=62
- A registered account is required to access the series. Most series are subjected to a subscription fee, which is $6.95 a month.

Hulu: http://hulu.com
*http://www.hulu.com/search?page=1&query=anime&sort_by=relevance&type=episode
- Like that of regular T.V. shows, there will be the "occasional" commercial breaks.
- Most of the videos allow the user to watch the video at either 360p or 480p quality.

Netflix: http://www.netflix.com/
- A memberships is required to view the content. Plans start as low as $4.99/month.
- Show of the content here can or can't be viewed online. It just depends.

Legal Streaming on YouTube
YouTube Animation & Cartoons: http://www.youtube.com/shows/animation?l=en&pt=g

FUNimation: http://www.youtube.com/user/FUNimation
- Some of these videos are in parts.
- There is a HQ, high quality, option for some of the series.

Bandai: http://www.youtube.com/user/BandaiEntertainment

animenetwork: http://www.youtube.com/user/animenetwork

Kadokawa Entertainment: http://www.youtube.com/user/KADOKAWAanime
- Available Worldwide

GONG: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=GONG&view=playlists

I will not provide the links to the pay-to-download sites, because I want to advocate free legal options for everyone here. If you are interested in purchasing your anime, DudelRok suggests that, "If you are gonna buy (as that's the only way to get legal downloads) just go find yourself a full on physical copy. Such a better deal and you get pretty box art!"

If you live in a region that is not North America and would like to have some region-specific links added to this page, please PM me.

Last Words

It is not against Elliquiy's rules to watch anime (or any television/movie shows/etc.) that is not legally obtained; it is only against the rules to mention the methods that you used to obtain them. This notice is meant to be reasonable step to make those resources available to those who want to use them.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 07:55:28 PM by Caeli »

Offline CaeliTopic starter

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2012, 04:06:40 PM »
So, first post just to iron out the first series we're watching together - is there at least a general consensus (or no objections) to Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei? It seemed to have more interest than some of the others, for the first series.

For more information about the series, read on for some quick snippets, or you can head on over to Anime News Network or Wikipedia.



Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei (さよなら 絶望先生 Sayonara Zetsubō Sensei?, literally "Goodbye, Mr. Despair") is a Japanese manga by Kōji Kumeta, serialized in Weekly Shōnen Magazine. It is a comedy about a teacher who takes all aspects of life, word and culture in the most negative light possible. It satirizes politics, media, and Japanese society. In 2007, the manga received the thirty-first Kodansha Manga Award in the shōnen category, and was adapted into a twelve-episode anime series.  -- Wikipedia

Itoshiki Nozomu is the world's most negative person. To his way of thinking, there is no hope or meaning in this existence. Even the three kanji of his name become the two-kanji word zetsubou, "despair", when compressed. What an ironic twist of fate, then, that he becomes teacher to a class containing his precise opposite, the invincibly positive-minded Fuura Kafuka. -- Anime News Network
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 04:07:53 PM by Caeli »

Offline Tiaan

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 04:21:25 PM »
No objections from me, I am looking forward to it!

Offline Sure

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2012, 04:24:44 PM »
I'll join in, if you'll have me. And I have no objections to Sayonara, Zetsubo-Sensei.

Offline Tiaan

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2012, 04:38:25 PM »
Welcome Sure! *waves*

Offline Chris Brady

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2012, 04:42:37 PM »
Sure I guess.   Seeing as each of his students is a living embodiment of a psychological 'problem', should amusing to watch...

Offline Haibane

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2012, 04:48:44 PM »
I'm here!

Caeli, will you set a date to watch the first episode by, and then open the discussion on Episode 1 on that date? As to keeping the conversation going, will you set a fixed timetable like 1 epiosde per week, or 2 per week, or will you let the conversation about each episode naturally conclude before you open the discussion for the next?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 04:50:00 PM by Haibane »

Offline CaeliTopic starter

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 04:53:25 PM »
I've actually never been in an anime club, so I don't know how best to run discussions like this. I wouldn't mind hearing some input to see how other people feel about having a timetable of sorts to watch the series.

Offline Tiaan

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2012, 04:55:55 PM »
I reckon a set time each week to open up the discussion for the next episode - to avoid inadvertently giving spoilers to any who didn't watch it yet. I guess the previous week's discussion concludes as soon as that day/time is reached. One episode a week would keep it nice and rounded, less confusing than two different days for new discussion~ Those are my thoughts anyway!

Offline Haruki

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2012, 05:12:38 PM »
I'll jump in this one.  Thanks for setting it up, Caeli.  ^_^

Offline Haibane

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2012, 05:17:58 PM »
I reckon a set time each week to open up the discussion for the next episode - to avoid inadvertently giving spoilers to any who didn't watch it yet. I guess the previous week's discussion concludes as soon as that day/time is reached. One episode a week would keep it nice and rounded, less confusing than two different days for new discussion~ Those are my thoughts anyway!
Perhaps we could play it by ear? If there's lots of discussion a week might not be enough, and if there's little it could be too long, so how about we just agree when we've finished discussing an episode and Caeli can put up a bold header for the next episode at which point everyone should assume that spoilers are to be found below that banner.

Offline CaeliTopic starter

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2012, 05:33:54 PM »
I think having a group consensus would work better than a set timetable, since (being an online group) we can technically check in and contribute discussion whenever we want (as opposed to a RL group, which might be limited to a certain day of the week for meetings).

That's another thing to discuss - the use of spoilers. How does everyone feel about those?

Offline Tiaan

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2012, 05:45:30 PM »
What do you mean by spoilers? In our discussions, about the episode we are on? or stuff about how the series plays out further along from people who've already seen it... (forgive my ignorance!)

I think talking about events up to wherever we're at is fine, might be harder to discuss if we need to be careful about revealing anything. We can use a bold banner like Haibane suggested to announce which episode we're on.

Offline NightRabbit

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Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2012, 07:21:09 PM »
Hello everyone! May I join in too?

Offline Haruki

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 09:40:24 PM »
Tiaan:  For spoilers as we watch the episodes, that's what the
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Spoiler Tags
are for.

I'd think during discussion, if we may be giving possible spoilers, cloak that info within those tags.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 11:37:02 PM »
You can count me in for this too!

Offline Koibito

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2012, 02:35:09 AM »
I'm in for the club, but like I said: I'll pick and choose which series I join in on the group reading/watching.

Offline CaeliTopic starter

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2012, 04:12:39 AM »
Hello everyone! May I join in too?
You can count me in for this too!
I'm in for the club, but like I said: I'll pick and choose which series I join in on the group reading/watching.

You're all welcome to join in whenever you'd like. :D


As for spoilers - I think we should try to keep big events hidden to keep from spoiling the episode for someone who might not have watched the episode(s) yet. Not everything needs to be spoilered - for example, if you're discussing a character's traits and behavior, you probably won't need to spoiler anything unless you mention specific events that happen.

Since there isn't really a good way to do in-line spoilers, you can always try using footnotes like so1, or parentheses like so (2), and then placing all redacted information into a spoiler at the end of the post, so people can open the spoiler and use the notes as references, while still being able to read the comments with less disruption to the flow of text.

Those are intricacies though. ^-^

Since I haven't gotten any objects so far, I'm going to assume we'll be watching Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei. Does anyone have a suggested "watch-by" date? I'd say no earlier than Monday or Tuesday of next week (GMT -8), but I feel like a full week would be too long.

Offline Haibane

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2012, 08:41:43 AM »
To all the new arrivals - welcome! You're all very free to contribute.

Personally this is the way I have done this in the past. The thread organiser (in this case Caeli) would put up a post when one episode is finished being discussed and the concensus is we are ready to begin the next episode's chatter. Some kind of bold clear heading is used in a big font that announces the next episiode. That in itself counts as a spoiler marker - if you haven't watched that episide yet then you should not read below that heading. No other spoiler tags are necessary and everything talked about will reveal plot and character info in that episode to everyone who reads it.

By the simple use of this process it also means that no information of any kind may be revealed about episodes later in the series than that. We're discussing only and up to that particular episode. To those who have seen the series before you'll just have to please try your very best not to aim the points in your posts at future things given in the series.

No spoiler tags are therefore needed.

How does that sound?

Since I haven't gotten any objects so far, I'm going to assume we'll be watching Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei. Does anyone have a suggested "watch-by" date? I'd say no earlier than Monday or Tuesday of next week (GMT -8), but I feel like a full week would be too long.
My understanding is we watch an episode at a time and discuss an episode at a time. So our thoughts and views are limited to events up to that episode. Unless we are a person whose watched the series before, we watch it as we discuss it, thus there can't be any spoilers.

This is the way I have done anime clubs in the past. We discus as we watch, not all watch the whole series first then discuss it.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 08:44:33 AM by Haibane »

Offline Tiaan

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2012, 09:43:25 AM »
I think the 'watch by' date referred to the first episode. Am I wrong?

If that's the case, I think Monday or Tuesday is fine, no need to wait a week from now. Personally I think it's better if we start new discussions on the same time each week, since if someone's offline for a few days they don't miss the discussion because an episode's been watched early. Maybe a 'minimum new episode time', so if the discussion goes on longer we can delay it... but don't watch a new one before?

Offline NightRabbit

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Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2012, 11:48:19 AM »
I agree with Tiaan. I think we should give a couple days grace period just in case the episode discussion goes on for longer than expected and so people who might have been busy can catch up. I also like Haibane's idea of sing the headers to mark when a discussion is starting.

Offline Haruki

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 12:51:44 PM »
Monday or Tuesday works for me.  I just need to go find this anime we're going to do.  I have a lot on hand (on DVD), but some I do not.  Obviously, some haven't been licensed at all for DVD release, but are instead, in streaming form.

I'll have to go find something over the weekend.

Offline Major Major

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2012, 04:49:49 PM »
Just one thing.... Have a heart for us with very, very slow internet connections.

Offline Faustus

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Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2012, 05:15:44 PM »
Just one thing.... Have a heart for us with very, very slow internet connections.
I hear ya, Major Major. My dial-up enjoys keeping me from obtaining things as readily as I want them.

For locations to gather said series, I have sources for most of them. These locations have proven virus-free in the past, and the subtitle quality has been very nice. The subtitling on the series has also been done quite well (I am far from fluent or even conversationally-sound in the language, so I can't say : but a friend of mine is fluent in the spoken language, and she vouches on it).

I also have many of these series downloaded onto harddrives, so for people with slow-connections, if you can obtain high-speed long enough to download the episode direct, I can provide the links for you!

Offline CaeliTopic starter

Re: M.A.D @ Elliquiy - A Manga/Anime Discussion Group
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2012, 06:15:30 PM »
To all the new arrivals - welcome! You're all very free to contribute.

Personally this is the way I have done this in the past. The thread organiser (in this case Caeli) would put up a post when one episode is finished being discussed and the concensus is we are ready to begin the next episode's chatter. Some kind of bold clear heading is used in a big font that announces the next episiode. That in itself counts as a spoiler marker - if you haven't watched that episide yet then you should not read below that heading. No other spoiler tags are necessary and everything talked about will reveal plot and character info in that episode to everyone who reads it.

By the simple use of this process it also means that no information of any kind may be revealed about episodes later in the series than that. We're discussing only and up to that particular episode. To those who have seen the series before you'll just have to please try your very best not to aim the points in your posts at future things given in the series.

No spoiler tags are therefore needed.

How does that sound?

My understanding is we watch an episode at a time and discuss an episode at a time. So our thoughts and views are limited to events up to that episode. Unless we are a person whose watched the series before, we watch it as we discuss it, thus there can't be any spoilers.

This is the way I have done anime clubs in the past. We discus as we watch, not all watch the whole series first then discuss it.

That sounds perfect, Haibane.

I'm going to set our watch-by date for Episode 1 of Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei for 12:00am, Tuesday January 31, at which point we will begin discussing. I'll be providing, large, impossible-not-to-notice text to "section" off when the discussion will start and end.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 05:24:19 PM by Caeli »