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Author Topic: Scott Walker, Union Buster  (Read 26761 times)

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Offline RubySlippers

Re: General Union Stuffs (was: Scott Walker, Union Buster)
« Reply #225 on: March 08, 2011, 06:54:23 PM »
http://politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2011/jan/01/look-scott-walkers-campaign-promises/

So your problem is he is doing what he promised to do when he ran for office?

Isn't that rare in any politician what the hell did people think they were voting for him to not do what he promised that is not the kind of man he is?

Like my governor in Florida people are hating him for doing what he promised to do, why?

I find this refreshing you vote for the man or woman and they do what they promised to the best of their ability I may not like the person but I have to respect the person if they do this.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Re: General Union Stuffs (was: Scott Walker, Union Buster)
« Reply #226 on: March 08, 2011, 07:09:35 PM »
Okay, according to that link, he's 'kept' 7 out of 65 (less than 1/8), 'compromised' on one, has 6 out of 65 (less than 1/10) 'in the works', and hasn't started on 51 out of 65 (almost 5/6).  That's assuming that all of them are of equal importance.  Just sayin'.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Re: General Union Stuffs (was: Scott Walker, Union Buster)
« Reply #227 on: March 08, 2011, 07:12:04 PM »
Let's see..

-He's said that he'd talk to the unions..then refused to.
-He's said that he said he'd curtail collective bargaining during his campaign but he didn't.

He's lied and lied and lied

http://filterednews.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/20-lies-and-counting-told-by-gov-walker/

Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #228 on: March 09, 2011, 12:32:54 AM »
Russell King is a member of Talking Points Memo, a left-wing website known for its artful vagueness and spin. Most notably for dismissing the voter fraud convictions of ACORN employees.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #229 on: March 09, 2011, 12:48:40 AM »
Russell King is a member of Talking Points Memo, a left-wing website known for its artful vagueness and spin. Most notably for dismissing the voter fraud convictions of ACORN employees.

So you're saying the things listed..and not just by that site (I used it because I didn't want to put a BUNCH of sites) didn't occur?

Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #230 on: March 09, 2011, 01:49:24 AM »
Nope. I'm saying he's part of an organization that's skilled at slating the news against Conservatives or toning it down when it's related to negative Democrat practice.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #231 on: March 09, 2011, 05:11:43 AM »
OK, can you provide information from a source you prefer about the same information? Because the stories look to be confirmed by other sources (as Callie mentioned) and you're not really contributing to the conversation by just shooting stuff down, or trying to.

Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #232 on: March 09, 2011, 07:01:29 AM »
Oh hey, I can't use biased sources but everyone else can? Cool, glad that got cleared up.

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #233 on: March 09, 2011, 07:12:51 AM »
You've been warned before about the sarcasm, Lyell.  If you would like to refute the claims point by point, you're more than welcome to.  If you have nothing constructive to add, then please avoid the thread.


After a quick check, it looks like most of the points mentioned are, indeed, confirmed by other sources.  In fact, several of those other sources are actually very conservative news outlets.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #234 on: March 09, 2011, 07:16:36 AM »
Oh hey, I can't use biased sources but everyone else can? Cool, glad that got cleared up.

Dude, read what I wrote. The conversation was essentially thus:

Lyell: Hey, that's a biased source so I question the validity.
Me: Like Callie said, the info is supported by other sources. Can you provide a refuting source?

Before you decide people are being ZOMG UNFAIR, please entertain the notion that someone is asking you to elucidate out of curiosity, not to mow you down. After all, the whole point of talking to other people instead of just being satisfied with our own views is to explore other points of view.

Thanks.

Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #235 on: March 09, 2011, 08:40:01 AM »
"Lie" #1

Walker: His bill is about fixing a budget crisis.

The truth: Even Fox News’ Shepherd Smith couldn’t swallow that one, declaring that it’s all about politics and union busting, and “to pretend that this is about a fiscal crisis in the state of Wisconsin is malarkey.”

What is excluded: The Walker link goes to an article (by TPM) posted on February the 17th, 2011, the same day the democrat senators skipped state and two days after the union protests started. The bill was proposed on the 11th. The link to "the truth" (also by TPM) quotes a segment of a newscast on February 23rd, 2011. Union leaders did not publicly announce that they were accepting of the financial adjustments Walker proposed until the 21st, two days prior to the newscast and well after the bill proposal, senator expedition and protests were under way.
 The financial side had already been addressed when Shepard said the current state of the Wisconsin situation was all about the politics.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 08:46:36 AM by Lyell »

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #236 on: March 09, 2011, 09:08:37 AM »
I don't see how that refutes anything.  Walker is still, to this day (possibly at this very moment), insisting that the bill is solely to repair the budget and there is no political or union-busting agenda.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #237 on: March 09, 2011, 11:49:25 AM »
I don't see how that refutes anything.  Walker is still, to this day (possibly at this very moment), insisting that the bill is solely to repair the budget and there is no political or union-busting agenda.

And don't forget he ABSOLUTELY refuses to take any sort of modified version the bill under consideration. Even ones offered by his OWN party.

Offline Kuroneko

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #238 on: March 09, 2011, 05:40:12 PM »
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_8747fa04-4a74-11e0-8e6b-001cc4c03286.html

The GOP now says they can move ahead on the budget repair bill, possibly by removing the fiscal elements of the bill and sending it to committee, leaving the limits on collective bargaining intact.  Since they don't need a quorum for non-fiscal matters, they can now vote without the missing democrats.  Nice.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #239 on: March 09, 2011, 05:44:01 PM »
They could 'succeed' in passing it but losing ALL their standing as the 'high ground budget preservers'. Not that they had much. I don't understand why the Republicans would be willing to take such a politically suicidal move.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #240 on: March 09, 2011, 05:44:10 PM »
"Mr. Walker, sir? I have some changes to the bill you might want to look at. They would-"
"NO COMPROMISES!"
"Uh, but, sir, it w-"
"I SAID NO COMPROMISES!"
"God damnit, it would make the Democrats irrelevant while fucking the unions! Uh, sir."
"Well, why didn't you say so?"

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #241 on: March 09, 2011, 05:53:51 PM »
*headdesks repeatedly*

I can't wait to find out how they try to explain how parts of this entirely budget-related it's all about the budget budgetbudgetbudget bill are now, suddenly, not at all related to the budget and wherever did you get the idea that they were?

*fumes*

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #242 on: March 09, 2011, 05:56:10 PM »
Good luck finding anyone will cooperative on the democratic side after that boneheaded move. Sooner or later they are going to realize that they have profoundly fucked themselves over.

Of course by the time that happens at the polls, they'll have sold off public utilities for a song to folks like the Koch's,  ruined their budget to kick back Walker's backers and thoroughly screw over their education system and civil service.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 05:59:20 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #243 on: March 09, 2011, 06:35:09 PM »
So subverting the democratic process after the strikes and protests already started by fleeing the state for two weeks and counting wasn't a boneheaded move, but subverting the legislative process is? Selective outrage much?

There is no point in my posting the plethora of undeniable left-wing lies and hypocrisy. It would just make a ridiculous argument that has no conclusion. How consumed by partisanship does one have to be not to know that both sides lie and are hypocrites? Does honesty play a dominant role in our politics?

I understand the knee-jerk reaction to demonize politicians who do things you don't agree with but what part of Walker's Union adjustments do not save the state money?

Offline Trieste

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #244 on: March 09, 2011, 06:42:15 PM »
Did you miss the earlier expressed discomfort at what the Dems are doing? Apparently so.

Oh, and you don't have to post all of the so-called lies. Just the ones that refute the points you want to dismiss. :)

Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #245 on: March 09, 2011, 06:49:12 PM »
Did you miss the earlier expressed discomfort at what the Dems are doing? Apparently so.

Sorry, it must have been drowned out by the media channels, most of which exonerating them for their "honorable deeds."

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #246 on: March 09, 2011, 06:52:58 PM »
I didn't think it was a nice move by the Dems either.. but what would you do in their place? The other side REFUSED to discuss things with you, fully intends to bulldoze over you with no consideration to you, the voters or even common rules of parliamentary order?

If the roles were reversed, tell me the Republicans wouldn't do the same thing when the other side was steadfastly refusing to discuss things. Witness the clear move in the Wisconsin senate where they severed bills, using rules of order and procedure to FORCE the law through without proper discussion.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 08:05:50 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #247 on: March 09, 2011, 06:54:56 PM »
Lyell, I don't even care about which party Walker's in.  He could call himself a Whig, a Tory, or make up his own political party of one, and he would still be acting like an idiot.  Yes, all politicians lie and spin things until everyone gets dizzy.  Walker is turning this into a twisted art form.  He is taking lies and hypocrisy to new depths.

Of course Walker claims his "union adjustments" will save money.  I have yet to find anything like an independent, unbiased source that agrees with that statement.

But that's beside the point.  You've somehow managed to completely miss the fact that the outrage here is over Walker's sudden turnaround.  For weeks he's insisted that the bill he so desperately wants to pass is all fiscal, all about money.

NOW, suddenly, when it suits his agenda, parts of it have nothing to do with money and can be passed with a lesser quorum.

Forget about the Democrats, the other Republicans, everything else.  Look at what Walker's doing and stop trying to justify it by saying that other people have done bad things, too.  Are you seriously going to insist that he's doing nothing wrong?  Are you trying to play devil's advocate?  To troll?  Or do you actually support him?

I would appreciate a straight and simple answer to any or all of these questions.

Offline alxnjsh

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #248 on: March 09, 2011, 07:47:27 PM »
It seems that the Wisconsin Republicans were able to pass the bill because it was budget neutral. I don't think Mr. Walker can have it both ways. He can't say it has nothing to do with union organizing and is about saving money only to have it pass because it is budget neutral.

I have a feeling we now will be moving into Phase II which is generally courts. There will be multiple lawsuits filed both within Wisconsin and federally.

Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #249 on: March 09, 2011, 09:08:33 PM »
Do I support Scott Walker's agenda? Yes. Do I support his methods? Yes and no. That question is a little vague if the whole picture is to be taken into consideration. If Walker had started out circumventing the system to get his bill passed, then I would oppose his action. If you're asking whether or not I think retaliating dirty politics with dirty politics is fair play, then I support his action.
 The problem with "two wrongs don't make a right" sentiment is that by bypassing procedural protocol, the precedent is set that bypassing is the only way either side is going to win. It's more or less cheaters vs. cheaters.

Insisting that he's doing nothing wrong? No. Playing devil's advocate? Probably. Am I trolling? If I were, I probably wouldn't admit to it and if I wasn't, my answer would still be no. Do I actually support him? Yes.