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Author Topic: Scott Walker, Union Buster  (Read 26758 times)

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Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #300 on: March 11, 2011, 09:04:18 AM »
Walker also (theoretically) can't do a lot of the things he's been doing, but he keeps on trying.  However, given his earlier bluster at the White House to "stay out of Wisconsin's business," I'm hoping he still has some fear of federal laws and will restrain himself there.  Of course, it would be fascinating to see how he would respond to any federal interference, but I think he might be just smart enough to realize he needs to avoid that.

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/wi-senate-majority-leader-lets-cat-ou

Quote
[State Senate Majority Leader Scott] FITZGERALD: Well if they flip the state senate, which is obviously their goal with eight recalls going on right now, they can take control of the labor unions. If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions, certainly what you’re going to find is President Obama is going to have a much difficult, much more difficult time getting elected and winning the state of Wisconsin.
Emphasis mine.  Confusion also mine.  Yes, this would prevent large campaign contributions to Democratic candidates by said unions, but I'm not convinced they even need large campaign contributions at this point.  The Republicans have already done enough negative campaigning against themselves to last years; and I can already picture people sweeping in to vote and just selecting every Democrat they can find on the ballot.

The next election in Wisconsin happens 5 April, for State Supreme Court.

http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=32705

Quote
"Two weeks ago, [Justice David] Prosser looked like he had a commanding lead," reflects Mike McCabe of Wisconsin Democracy Campaign. "Now this race has been made into a referendum on Scott Walker."

Prosser, an appointee of Gov. Tommy Thompson who was reelected without challenge in 2001, agrees this is happening, and he doesn't like it one bit: "They don't want to vote against my record; they want to vote against Scott Walker."

But even Prosser's supporters cast the April 5 election in partisan terms, seeing it as integral to Walker's determination to transform Wisconsin.

His opponent, JoAnne Kloppenburg, a state assistant attorney general, says she's running to "preserve the role of the court as a coequal and independent branch of government that serves as a check and balance on overreaching by the executive and legislative branches."  Even so, she doesn't want to make this partisan, either, refusing to comment specifically on the current situation.

Since at least three separate legal complaints have already been filed against the Republican passage of the amended bill, the composition of the Supreme Court takes on extra, immediate importance.

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/an-overview-of-legal-challenges-to-the-controversial-vote-wisconsin



And, just when you think Walker can't get any worse:

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/governor-walker-admits-bill-is-fiscal-but-still-claims-no-quorum-is-needed

Quote from: Wisconsin State Statutes
On the passage in either house of the legislature of any law which imposes, continues or renews a tax, or creates a debt or charge, or makes, continues or renews an appropriation of public or trust money, or releases, discharges or commutes a claim or demand of the state, the question shall be taken by yeas and nays, which shall be duly entered on the journal; and three−fifths of all the members elected to such house shall in all such cases be required to constitute a quorum therein.
Quote from: Scott Walker
They're not in conflict with that requirement for a quorum, but they are indeed fiscal. They give a fiscal benefit to the state, for the remainder of the year it'll allow us to save 30m, which allows us to save 1500 jobs, and for the next two years thereafter in the next budget it gives us the equivalent of $300 million worth of savings, which allows us to save 5-6,000 jobs.

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #301 on: March 11, 2011, 11:20:57 AM »
I noticed that Alaskan Dream Barbie weighed in on things:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/11/palin-wisconsin-union-bosses-acting-like-thugs/

Turn down the rhetoric? I'm sorry, ma'am, but I can't hear you over all of the people you told, "Don't retreat; reload". *eyeroll*

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #302 on: March 11, 2011, 11:48:58 AM »


It's not as if there's no wage negotiation a availible whatsoever and the cap in place is set to scale with the Consumer Price Index. Essentially, it allows for negotiation for higher pay when it can be sustained. 


Didn't he set the raises to be voted on if they were higher than standard of living? Which pretty much kills any option for effective pay raises till the law is repealed?

Offline Kuroneko

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #303 on: March 11, 2011, 12:36:53 PM »
It's interesting to me that the people who withdrew the $192,000 from the M and I bank in Madison were all firefighters, according to reports here in the state. 

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #304 on: March 11, 2011, 12:41:35 PM »
It's interesting to me that the people who withdrew the $192,000 from the M and I bank in Madison were all firefighters, according to reports here in the state.

I am betting at least the Firefighter/Police Union leadership knows that sooner or later that Walker will be using the 20 grit on them.. and they are watching him like hawks.  I'm betting there have been some interesting phone calls over to his office from them already.

Offline Kuroneko

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #305 on: March 11, 2011, 12:44:02 PM »
Agreed.  I'm sure they're waiting for the axe to fall.  From all accounts at the capitol, the police and firefighters have been very supportive of the protestors, and this is another gesture of support.

Offline Jude

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #306 on: March 11, 2011, 12:53:05 PM »
I wonder what Walker is even thinking at this point.  Even if they successfully pass this legislation, it will be overturned in the blink of an eye when someone else is voted into office.  As is, the public disagrees with what he's doing and that's with all of the misinformation out there.  Take that away and you'll have a public mobilized to support teachers (especially when people see the damage that this does to the state's test scores) and all of the momentum behind the Democrats.  This is going to be a big point of inflection for Wisconsin politics, he's damaging Republicans for years to come.

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #307 on: March 11, 2011, 01:05:11 PM »
Well, he gets to sell off the state power utilities to the Koch brothers now, and that's something that I'm not so sure can be overturned later.

In spite of the money involved there, though, I don't see why Walker still imagines it will be worth what's happening with the larger picture.  Wisconsin is typically a swing state, but now I can't imagine it being anything but Democrat for the foreseeable future.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #308 on: March 11, 2011, 01:07:47 PM »
Agreed.  I'm sure they're waiting for the axe to fall.  From all accounts at the capitol, the police and firefighters have been very supportive of the protestors, and this is another gesture of support.

That's nice to hear, because I'm sure they have to know that he (Walker) is going to screw them next. You don't isolate one union and leave the rest of the civil service unions alone.

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #309 on: March 11, 2011, 01:08:31 PM »
Sell off the utilities to the Koch brothers, 'retire' from politics, and get a cushy job in one of the Kochs subsidiaries?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #310 on: March 11, 2011, 01:14:25 PM »
Sell off the utilities to the Koch brothers, 'retire' from politics, and get a cushy job in one of the Kochs subsidiaries?

More likely as 'success story' that does a speaking tour courtesy of one of their pet 'think tanks'.

Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #311 on: March 11, 2011, 04:01:19 PM »
Didn't he set the raises to be voted on if they were higher than standard of living? Which pretty much kills any option for effective pay raises till the law is repealed?

He set raises to be voted on by referendum if they were higher than the inflation influenced CPI based cap as far as I know. Voter approval. Not entirely killed, I don't think.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #312 on: March 11, 2011, 04:06:03 PM »
He set raises to be voted on by referendum if they were higher than the inflation influenced CPI based cap as far as I know. Voter approval. Not entirely killed, I don't think.

Yeah till you consider all the PACs backing him can hammer any such move into the ground. I can see 'Vote no on #?' ads running already. Sorry, I don't see that as 'fair' or 'balanced'. I see that as vindictive. Particularly since no other member of the state civil employee groups have been singled out.

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #313 on: March 11, 2011, 04:38:20 PM »
I was a school board member at one time in Wisconsin. I don't know of any local  governing body that asked for Walker's help. The local budgets were balanced by law they have to be in the state of Wisconsin. The associations were allready giving concessions to keep their jobs in less pay increases or no pay increases. They took less increases to keep their insurance. When you negotiate the packages it is the whole package. The teacher's pay in Wisconsin is low for the midwest because they wanted better benefits to make up for it.

When the QEO was in acted by Tommy Thompson, which is similar to the CPI idea of Walker's, it included no raises higher then the CPI including benefits. Some teachers had to take a pay cut to keep the insurance and they gladly did. They were upset about it but that was the way it went. The will fight for their bargaining rights however don't expect time to calm them down.

They gave up the right to strike for this decades ago. The point I am trying to make is the last year is a snapshot of tough times that the Republicans are now using to beat up on good hard working people. The people complaining about what the teachers have are not considering the past history of concessions the associations made in Wisconsin.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #314 on: March 11, 2011, 04:52:42 PM »
I find it curious that a LOT of actions on the repair bill that cut money for local/city/municipal governments are hand in hand with things like a restriction on how much they can increase property taxes, fees and other things to cover the short falls. In the trying times we got going, it's not fair or balanced in the way the state government is treating subordinate groups they are dealing with.

Cutting funds with one hand and crippling their options with the other. It seems like he wants them to go under. But why?

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #315 on: March 11, 2011, 05:19:32 PM »
See the other thread on Michigan and the appointed executives for local governments from the state. Not sure if i said it completely right.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #316 on: March 11, 2011, 05:26:25 PM »
See the other thread on Michigan and the appointed executives for local governments from the state. Not sure if i said it completely right.

Still not following it. Is this a way to bootstrap your own people into place by forcing failures or am I reading too much into it? The thread Veks put up this morning is a bit beyond me in legalese. (That is why I usually ask my brother the lawyer about things like that)

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #317 on: March 11, 2011, 05:31:56 PM »
From what I am gathering. A local government can't find its way out of a financial hole someone will be appointed to take care of it from the governor's office to deal with it including dealing with the local public employees.


Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #318 on: March 11, 2011, 08:05:14 PM »
Yeah till you consider all the PACs backing him can hammer any such move into the ground. I can see 'Vote no on #?' ads running already. Sorry, I don't see that as 'fair' or 'balanced'. I see that as vindictive. Particularly since no other member of the state civil employee groups have been singled out.

Let me see if I've been following this correctly up until now. A majority of the state is outraged over what Walker is doing now, but a majority of the state won't remember that outrage when votes regarding teacher wage comes up?

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #319 on: March 11, 2011, 08:28:19 PM »
they are outraged by the taking away of bargaining rights. Most agree the teachers had to start paying something for their benefits and pensions.

School districts are funny things the people want local control not state control. It is why you have a school board that is answerable to the local populace. Part of the issue is contract language goes both ways. There is language in contracts that helps management that can no longer be bargained either.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #320 on: March 11, 2011, 08:35:04 PM »
Let me see if I've been following this correctly up until now. A majority of the state is outraged over what Walker is doing now, but a majority of the state won't remember that outrage when votes regarding teacher wage comes up?

I was pointing out what WALKER'S side would be doing. Forgive me if I get the feeling they are petty, vindictive and willing to throw money to kick a group when their down.

Offline Lyell

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #321 on: March 11, 2011, 08:56:27 PM »
I was pointing out what WALKER'S side would be doing. Forgive me if I get the feeling they are petty, vindictive and willing to throw money to kick a group when their down.

But apparently it would be effective enough to make the majority swing against voting in favor of the teachers? I'm not sure I follow.

School districts are funny things the people want local control not state control. It is why you have a school board that is answerable to the local populace. Part of the issue is contract language goes both ways. There is language in contracts that helps management that can no longer be bargained either.

How does not having to bargain impede the school board from making decisions?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #322 on: March 11, 2011, 09:10:27 PM »
But apparently it would be effective enough to make the majority swing against voting in favor of the teachers? I'm not sure I follow.

Proper PR..and you know if it's an off year election only about half the electorate will be involved.

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #323 on: March 11, 2011, 09:23:41 PM »
A contract is written for both party's. I have negotiated for teachers where i work and for the board i served on as well as a park board on purchasing land. There is language in contracts for both sides, it is not one sided. Basically both sides come to the table with issues and if its mutual interest bargaining they try to solve them by brainstorming its a long process. If the language is changed both parties agree. This is what Walker has taken away. The money part he had the concessions allready.

Now if he decrees as king that the language is null and void that would be an unfair labor practice. However lets suppose it is null and void that forces both sides to go to past practice which would be the present contract. Labor law public or private is simple, past practice is binding. That  means neither side can change the past practice as you no longer have the capability to do it in negotiations. Most school districts are free flowing when problems come up. You dint change the contract at that moment but instead you get what is called a memorandum of understanding. when the contract runs out that memorandum can A) go into the contract as stands B) be renegotiated and put in C) be dropped because one side feels it is no longer needed.

That is what this bill has done to the school districts as far as bargaining rights are concerned. Now neither side can change the language. You can't change language unilaterally as that is also an unfair labor practice and that is both federal and state laws.

Offline Kuroneko

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #324 on: March 11, 2011, 09:26:32 PM »
they are outraged by the taking away of bargaining rights. Most agree the teachers had to start paying something for their benefits and pensions.

Uhm, we already were paying for our health care and pensions.  Now we're just being asked to pay more.  In the case of pensions, I used to pay 100% of it.  Now I'll be paying an addtional 5.8% of my salary towards it, and my healthcare premiums will more than double.  All told, it's nearly a $5K per year pay cut.  That's far more than the raise I received for getting tenure.

Oh, also - http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_ed8497da-4c1a-11e0-8669-001cc4c03286.html.  Just an fyi on how the bill is moving along.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 09:37:13 PM by Kuroneko »