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Author Topic: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy  (Read 3158 times)

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Offline KurzykTopic starter

Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« on: December 04, 2009, 02:59:13 PM »
Globe Life: Family and Relationships

This is really interesting. The gaming world has been stereotypical in roles for a long time. It's about time it diversified.


Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 03:09:12 PM »
It's funny; this is being hailed (on one hand) as a liberal, epoch-defining event, that a video game has a well-developed gay relationship... Except that the character in question, Zevran, explicitly states that it's a one-off fling, merely for the fun of it.  Ha ha.

Though I will say, it's nice to see the article not that yes, this game is marketed and designed for adults, not children.

Offline Jude

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 04:06:20 PM »
In the case of Dragon Age Origins, the gay relationship is such an incredibly tiny unimportant part of the game.  They put very little effort into creating it.  All of the romance scenes in that game are incredibly hilarious in how crudely (not in a good way) done they are.  This is also far from the first game to include hints of homosexuality in it.

First game I can recall was Shadow Hearts:  in every one of those games, there was at least one important homosexual (or in the latter games homosexual couple) posing at a merchant.  They helped you out, but there were also stereotypical homosexual jokes involved.  Lets see if I can dig up any links...

Here:  http://gaygamer.net/2006/07/top_20_gayest_video_game_chara_17.html

Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 04:22:32 PM »
Jade Empire allowed M/F, F/M, M/M, F/F, and M/F/F relationships.  Yes, your character can get into a polyamorous relationship.

Sex and relationships tend to be a recurring theme for Bioware games.  Jade Empire had it, KOTOR had it, NWN had it, Arcanum had a gorram brothel, and of course Mass Effect had sex outside of your species (though then again, so did Arcanum...).  It's just one of their things, like using elevators to disguise load times.

In the case of Dragon Age Origins, the gay relationship is such an incredibly tiny unimportant part of the game.  They put very little effort into creating it.  All of the romance scenes in that game are incredibly hilarious in how crudely (not in a good way) done they are.  This is also far from the first game to include hints of homosexuality in it.

Interestingly, both Zevran and Morrigan can be romanced 'out of the gate,' i.e. you can get their sex scenes very quickly.  It's Alistar and Leliana who take more time to develop.  It's an interesting and very subtle difference between the characters, and nicely done.  Considering that all previous Bioware games the sex scenes were basically at a predetermined point in the game, it shows a bit of progression in their storytelling.  It makes me hopeful for ME2.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 06:00:16 PM »
I'm still trying to score with Leliana. Allistar is soo pissed at me right now (wasn't able to save the boy without blood magic.. man was he MAD.)

Offline Brandon

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 07:57:15 PM »
I believe it was fear effect 2 that showed the first fully gay couple in video games (or at least the first that I know of). There was actually a plot between the lesbian couple that was beautiful and seemed natural to me.

The controversy IMO is only because its 2 men. Our soceity as a whole seems to either accept or ignore lesbian couples yet if its 2 men together its like some holocaust.

Offline Serephino

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 08:45:06 PM »
Actually, Lesbian action is poular with the general public... men anyway.  I remember when the TV show Friends I think it was had a Lesbian kiss.  Shortly after that many other shows did it too for ratings.  The kiss between Brittney Spears and Madonna at some award show was hot.  When Adam Lambert did a homosexual kiss this year the complaints rolled in.  So yes, it is one sided, and no, it isn't fair.

Anyway, the first game I ever played where you could have a gay couple was Fable.  I enjoyed going around and marrying a man in every village.  Then came Sims 2.  I made gay couples on that game too.  The only part that sucked was that to have kids you had to adopt.  There was supposedly a way to get a male sim pregnant by an alien, but i never tried it. 

I think it's great that the option exists in games now.  Hetero males aren't the only ones that play games.  If there's going to be romance in a game, hetero shouldn't be the only option.  It certainly isn't the only option in real life. 

Offline Cold Heritage

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2009, 01:55:48 AM »
The controversy IMO is only because its 2 men.

Any sex in video games can be enough to send people up in a tizzy, even when the sex in question is grossly exaggerated. Remember the controversy over Mass Effect?

Offline Braioch

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Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2009, 05:05:33 AM »
I was actually quite impressed with Bioware's move on including sex scenes like that. They were done classy enough, yet you knew exactly what was going on at the same time. They were really no different than some of the sex scenes you see in movies.

Yes it was mildly irritating to have the M/M relationship in the game be a stereotypical fling (while my lesbian friend pointed out that the lesbian relationship was pretty stereotypical, ya know, lesbians second date involves a moving truck and all that), but you take what you can get I suppose.

Still, a M/M with Allistar would have been hot XD

Anyways, people will always make a fuss about the most stupid of things, and I honestly enjoyed the game and the little side bits of having a relationship with some of your party members is a small yet enjoyable part of the game that you can CHOOSE to partake in.

Offline Jude

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 06:51:47 AM »
I don't think it's bad that they've included homosexual relationships in video games; in fact I think it's good, but saying that they should make an effort to include homosexual primary characters?  Yes and no, it depends on the type of game.

It makes absolute sense in a "choice" game to add that in as a main-plot point for people who choose to game that way.  So for BioWare games, yes, that's no a brainer to cater to that audience.  However, when you start getting into games without "choice" and dedicated narrative, it's important to give your game mass-appeal.  If you work homosexuality heavily into the plot in a way that people can't relate to, it will result in a disconnect for immersion.

It's the same reason why in RPGs the "main characters" tend to be younger, male, and white.  They're appealing to their key demographics to give gamers "eyes through which they can relate" to view the story.  A lot of RPGs have a love story in them which is important to the plot, if the featured love story (which is not the case in BioWare, love stories are all side/optional in BioWare games) was homosexual I bet it would hurt the sales of the game.  Due to their interactive nature, Video Games tend to cater towards the majority rather heavily when they try and create immersive stories.

As a minority myself, I understand this, and just realize it's a consequence of capitalism.

Offline Talia

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 08:31:53 AM »
The only way you are going to change the way that people view and accept life style choices, is to build positive awareness to it, show it, train the mind. Maybe then people can get more comfortable, or at the very least accept that it's OK to be different, even if its not something your in agreement with.

If your not absolutely on board don't buy the game.

 They should have taught more options in sex ed...more about respect and the tolerance of others whom choose to live differently from the "norm".

Offline Kotep

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2009, 10:22:17 PM »
What I find interesting is that while both Mass Effect and Dragon Age had controversy surrounding their sex scenes, there was near to nothing in the Mass Effect hooplah about the lesbian option; it was all about the fact that there was sex.  There really is this weird double standard to homosexuality; when it's with with two men it's more disgusting than when it's with two women.  Maybe it has something to do with sexism, where it's easier for people to see two girls in love than two guys.

It's also interesting how the fact that you can have sex in this game is more controversial than the fact that killing a couple of rats in a cellar in the prologue leaves your character splattered head to toe with blood.

Offline Jude

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 10:45:57 AM »
I think the double standard on homosexuality between the sexes isn't nefarious, but that it just has to do with what we consider our ideal of beauty to be.  Take Ancient Greece for example:  men were considered the ideal standard of beauty, lesbians were thought of poorly, and homosexuality between males was widely accepted.  Now we live in a society where everything is the exact opposite; I think it's just a function of that.

Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 11:16:09 AM »
Hm. I was trying to type a post up, but I think it is just going to end up turning into a squee of my human female mage/Leliana pairing.

Zevran is easy to sex up, but harder to get an actual relationship out of. You can, though!

I'll also note that both he and Leliana are actually bisexual.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 06:16:22 PM »
Yet, Grand Theft Auto IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony which is lauded for its well-developed homosexual namesake (though you don't play him) is not even bliped on the radar. Interesting.

Offline Ryven

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Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2009, 06:30:23 PM »
I was actually quite impressed with Bioware's move on including sex scenes like that. They were done classy enough, yet you knew exactly what was going on at the same time. They were really no different than some of the sex scenes you see in movies.

Yes it was mildly irritating to have the M/M relationship in the game be a stereotypical fling (while my lesbian friend pointed out that the lesbian relationship was pretty stereotypical, ya know, lesbians second date involves a moving truck and all that), but you take what you can get I suppose.

Still, a M/M with Allistar would have been hot XD

Anyways, people will always make a fuss about the most stupid of things, and I honestly enjoyed the game and the little side bits of having a relationship with some of your party members is a small yet enjoyable part of the game that you can CHOOSE to partake in.

My boyfriend was so disappointed when he found out Allistar was not one of the characters you could have a relationship with.

Also, they'll be updating the game with content and more people in the world you could potentially form relationships with.  I'm hoping that when more potential gay partners are added, they are not flings like the first one.

Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2009, 06:40:35 PM »
I've heard you can make Zevran not-a-fling, but it's harder than just sleeping with him, because of the kind of character he is. I've not played a male, or a female romancing anyone but Leliana, so I've got no first hand information.

Offline MercyfulFate

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2009, 07:13:24 PM »
I love that this is controversial. The only controversy should be how unbelievably awkward the "sex" and banter are.

I want a day where I can simulate real sex, more like the Hot Coffee mod, in a game. I know there's some out there that do this, Japanese manga style games but more mainstream.

Something like Heavy Rain in terms of the choices you can make, and sex. Imagine being able to choose whether or not to wear a condom, and other nuances? It would be amazing.

Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2009, 07:51:26 PM »
I've liked the dialog in DA:O a lot. But I'm also a biased fangirl.

The sex is a lot better with certain mods to remove certain bits of remaining clothing from the girls. :P

Offline Serephino

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2009, 08:22:53 PM »
My boyfriend was so disappointed when he found out Allistar was not one of the characters you could have a relationship with.

Also, they'll be updating the game with content and more people in the world you could potentially form relationships with.  I'm hoping that when more potential gay partners are added, they are not flings like the first one.

That's odd because I found a video on youtube with Allistair and a male character.  There seems to be conflicting info on this.  I intend to find out though.

Offline Brandon

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2009, 08:50:03 PM »
They should just start making all the characters bisexual that way you have the greatest freedom in the game.

Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2009, 09:14:27 PM »
They should just start making all the characters bisexual that way you have the greatest freedom in the game.

But it would hardly be realistic.

That's odd because I found a video on youtube with Allistair and a male character.  There seems to be conflicting info on this.  I intend to find out though.

Citation Link, please?

Offline Serephino

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2009, 09:17:11 PM »
Dragon Age: Origins- Alistair likes men.

There's the video, but I found out you need a mod to get it to work

Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2009, 09:37:58 PM »
A mod or something. Alistair's not an in-game gay option, 99% sure.

Offline Serephino

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2009, 09:45:39 PM »
From what I can tell from reading, you download a mod to get a gender bending ring that turns your character female.  Then you start up the romance and you can change back.  The biggest downside is your body changes, but your face doesn't.  It's a good thing you can change back once the romance is initiated.