You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 09, 2016, 09:30:06 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy  (Read 3157 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2009, 10:10:30 PM »
Ah, yeah, that was it. Gender bending thing, yeah.

Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2009, 10:33:55 PM »
From what I can tell from reading, you download a mod to get a gender bending ring that turns your character female.  Then you start up the romance and you can change back.  The biggest downside is your body changes, but your face doesn't.  It's a good thing you can change back once the romance is initiated.

So, ergo, not in the original game.  Heck, I could mod the game to put Flemeth or the Archdemon into my game; doesn't change the game-as-shipped.

Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2009, 09:16:13 AM »
Right. But the glory of PC versions of such games is modding. :P

Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2009, 09:31:11 AM »
Except that the "controversy" it generates is false.  Remember back to Bethesda's Oblivion; that game allowed you to completely disrobe your avatar and see them in their skivvies.  The dangly bits existed on the models, there just wasn't a way to remove a model's underwear.  Enter a modder who did just that, and it was the game publisher who had to modify their code to remove said dangly bits.  The fault wasn't on Bethesda, it was on the modder, but it was the good folks at Bethesda who had their name tarnished and had to change their video game.  Sort of like if I painted an erect penis on the hood of a 2010 Firebird, and folks sued the Ford Motor Company for the indecent image.

Most mods to include nudity are on the level of "nude Zoe;" tits just to titillate.

Offline Serephino

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2009, 09:40:25 AM »
Well in the original game you can have a gay relationship with Zevran, which is the controversy.  You can also be a lesbian with Liliana.  It's just Allistair you need the mod for... which by the way... IT WORKS!!!!  *does a happy dance*

For anyone who is interested;

http://social.bioware.com/project/566/#details

I had to go into the game files and use the update.  Then you use the ring
like you would a potion.  You turn female, flirt, then turn back.  IT WORKS!!
You also get a ring to re roll your talents and stuff too.

Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2009, 09:45:24 AM »
And Gary Gygax thought the Belt of Gender-Bending was a bad thing.

Offline Will

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2009, 01:11:39 PM »
Except that the "controversy" it generates is false.  Remember back to Bethesda's Oblivion; that game allowed you to completely disrobe your avatar and see them in their skivvies.  The dangly bits existed on the models, there just wasn't a way to remove a model's underwear.  Enter a modder who did just that, and it was the game publisher who had to modify their code to remove said dangly bits.  The fault wasn't on Bethesda, it was on the modder, but it was the good folks at Bethesda who had their name tarnished and had to change their video game.  Sort of like if I painted an erect penis on the hood of a 2010 Firebird, and folks sued the Ford Motor Company for the indecent image.

Most mods to include nudity are on the level of "nude Zoe;" tits just to titillate.

That's actually more like if Ford painted the erect penis on the car, and then covered it up.  It's a lot like the Hot Coffee situation with GTA and Rockstar Games, since their developers were the ones that included the sex in the game.  Even if you cover it by making it inaccessible, it's still strange and inappropriate to even have it on there to begin with.

Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2009, 01:18:14 PM »
So if I use a pornographic image or video as the wallpaper to every computer in a high school -- something possible with an out-of-the-box version of windows -- that would mean that Microsoft is responsible for the smut because their programmers did not explicitly stop me from doing do?  I'm sorry, but that argument seems fallacious to me.

Offline Will

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2009, 01:24:18 PM »
If Microsoft including a pornographic image with the installation of Windows, which required only a VERY small mod to access and use as your desktop, then yeah.  In the end, they provided the content.  The only thing the modder did was access it.

As was mentioned before, modding is a HUGE part of PC gaming.  Game publishers are well aware of this.  The idea that they left this content on the disk, knowing that it would only take a small modification to access it, is (at best) extremely irresponsible.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 01:26:16 PM by Ghost of Will Yet to Come »

Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2009, 01:31:33 PM »
You had to go on the Internet, download a file, and follow some instructions to unlock Hot Coffee.

You had to go on the Internet, download a file, and follow some instructions to unlock naked avatars in Oblivion.

You would have to to go on the Internet, download a file, and follow some instructions to put porn as your Windows desktop.

I'm not seeing how these things are so very different that one is irresponsible, and the other is simply good business practice.

Offline Will

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2009, 02:51:13 PM »
O.o

I don't see how any are good business practice.  Beyond the usual "any publicity is good publicity" approach.  They are all irresponsible.

Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2009, 02:59:29 PM »
My point is, to put porn as your desktop requires no change to the original code.  Getting to see Hot Coffee or twigs & berries in Oblivion does.  So I don't understand your point that one is irresponsible and negligent, and the other is simply business as usual.

Offline Will

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2009, 03:56:21 PM »
Oh, I see.  It takes exactly as much work to put porn as your desktop on Windows as it does to access the sexeh stuff on the vidya games, right?  This, however, is a bad analogy, as Microsoft does not provide you with the adult content, while the developers of these games do.  The providing of the easily-accessible content is what makes it irresponsible.

Anyway, we're way off topic... >.>

Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2009, 04:17:49 PM »
Why is it irresponsible to have adult content in video games? Note that any game with such content is rated M, meaning it's for adults.

Offline Will

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2009, 04:38:12 PM »
It's irresponsible because it was snuck into the games without warning or telling anyone.  An M rating doesn't suffice for full-frontal nudity and sex; I believe that would warrant an "AO" rating.

See here.
"No video game console manufacturer has yet to allow any game to be published in North America with the harshest ESRB rating, "Adults Only", signaling that the game is only appropriate for ages 18 years and up. Additionally, no major retailers are willing to set aside shelf space for AO-rated games. Although Grand Theft Auto San Andreas was given a rating of AO after widespread surfacing of an add-on originally deleted from the game, "Hot Coffee," in which the player controls a fully clothed sexual encounter. It was later fully removed and the game retained the M rating. GTA San Andreas is the best selling game to ever receive the AO rating."

Offline Serephino

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2009, 09:21:18 PM »
But from what I've seen, the sex in video games isn't that graphic.  Granted I have limited knowledge, but in Fable the screen fades and you hear cheesy moaning.  In Dragon Age it just shows random images of them together from the chest up (and females are wearing bras).  In Sims 2 they dive under the bed covers and it looks like they're wrestling or something.  Honestly, I've seen worse in PG-13 movies.

The romance/sex thing is just something that adds to the rpg experience.  You're role playing the character, and sex is part of life.  This very forum is the perfect example.  People role play sex here.  So is everyone who does something with adult content irresponsible?

The rating M means 17+  Is there really a difference between 17 and 18 year olds?  I know there's a legal difference, but I have to tell you, when I went to bed the night before my 18th birthday and then woke up 18 years old, nothing really changed.  I didn't suddenly become wiser or anything.  And let's not forget that most 17 year olds have had sex themselves or watched porn.  What you see in video games is tame.



Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2009, 09:11:59 AM »
It's irresponsible because it was snuck into the games without warning or telling anyone.  An M rating doesn't suffice for full-frontal nudity and sex; I believe that would warrant an "AO" rating.
In the case of Hot Coffee, nothing was 'snuck in'. Cut content was still locatable on the disk--but never within game. Only somebody LOOKING for it could find it. In the case of nude mods, that has nothing to do with the game creators. And even if something was 'snuck on', I don't see how that's irresponsible. There's nothing dangerous or harmful about nudity and sexuality!


Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2009, 09:14:54 AM »
The rating M means 17+  Is there really a difference between 17 and 18 year olds?  I know there's a legal difference, but I have to tell you, when I went to bed the night before my 18th birthday and then woke up 18 years old, nothing really changed.  I didn't suddenly become wiser or anything.  And let's not forget that most 17 year olds have had sex themselves or watched porn.  What you see in video games is tame.

Is there a difference between 20 and 21?  How about 19 and 20?  I know I was as much of an idiot when I was 18 as when I was 19.  We could keep pushing this back to 7, and then argue that 7-year-olds should be able to buy booze.  Yes, it's a ridiculous argument, but it's a conceivable one.  The way our justice system works, the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Oh, I see.  It takes exactly as much work to put porn as your desktop on Windows as it does to access the sexeh stuff on the vidya games, right?  This, however, is a bad analogy, as Microsoft does not provide you with the adult content, while the developers of these games do.  The providing of the easily-accessible content is what makes it irresponsible.

It's irresponsible because it was snuck into the games without warning or telling anyone.  An M rating doesn't suffice for full-frontal nudity and sex; I believe that would warrant an "AO" rating.

It was not snuck into anywhere.  It was impossible to access by normal means and then someone yanked it out into broad daylight.  It wasn't the video game developers that put the bewbies on screen.  Folks went into the game code, pulled out the bewbies that were never meant to see the light of day, and shoved them out there.  You could not take an out of the box version of Oblivion or GTA: San Andreas and see pixelated bewbies because IT WASN'T A PART OF THE GAME until someone opened it up.

Offline Will

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2009, 11:29:31 AM »
It could be argued that it was, in fact, part of the game because it was on the disc.  If it was "never meant to see the light of day," then why didn't they remove the content completely?  That's what is irresponsible.  And that's assuming the best of intentions on their part; they could have even slipped it into the game knowing that it would be accessed by modders, thinking it would be a cool joke or a good way to sell more games.

Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2009, 04:11:40 PM »
Sometimes, the way code works, cutting something out entirely may have unexpected effects. And there's still no irresponsibility. It's not like it's anything harmful being put  on the disc,

Offline Cythieus

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2009, 04:58:10 PM »
Not the first game to have gays really, not sure why its a big deal if there are gays in something. To each their own.

Offline goalt

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2009, 12:12:06 AM »
It's a deal because of the continual bigotry in much of the world.

Offline Raveled

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2009, 09:11:13 AM »
It's a controversy because there are still people who view video games as something that exists only for children, and the idea that sex exists in something that their kids might view shocks and scares them.  I'll agree that Little Johnny and Susie May shouldn't be playing GTA or Dragon Age or Mass Effect, just like they shouldn't watch the Departed, Lethal Weapon, or the first couple Die Hard movies.  It's part of a parents job to monitor the sort of stuff their kids are watching and playing and step in if it's not appropriate.

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Video Game's gay love scene stirs controversy
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2009, 03:16:20 PM »
It's a controversy because there are still people who view video games as something that exists only for children, and the idea that sex exists in something that their kids might view shocks and scares them.

I think this is the main problem. If a game contains as graphic of a sexual encounter as an R movie it is somehow "pushing sex on children", despite the fact that  the age limit for accessing the content of that game and gaining admittance to an R movie is identical. Nude characters in an M game (which Oblivion is) should be perfectly reasonable. There are plenty of nude figures in R rated movies and you need to be seventeen to access each. I see this as a fairly glaring double standard.