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Author Topic: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?  (Read 9844 times)

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Offline KateTopic starter

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2009, 10:08:31 PM »
And others seem to be assuming america is doing as good a job as what the un could.

Simple.

Intention.

What is the intention of the UN

What is the intention of America

Offline Will

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2009, 10:12:06 PM »
Intentions don't solve problems, and that doesn't really answer my question.

And for the record, I never said the U.S. was doing a good job.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 10:15:10 PM by Will1984 »

Offline Revolverman

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2009, 10:18:47 PM »
And others seem to be assuming america is doing as good a job as what the un could.

They are.

They are both utter shit.

Offline Oniya

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Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #78 on: November 11, 2009, 12:02:58 AM »
My point is that whoever the deciding body is, and no matter who they side with - or even if they side with no one - there are going to be people on one side, the other, or both that disapprove of the decision.

Offline KateTopic starter

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #79 on: November 11, 2009, 12:39:27 AM »

I am stunned others don't beleive the UN is the best
method to resolve issues between countries,
however flawed it may be.


Offline Revolverman

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #80 on: November 11, 2009, 12:41:23 AM »
I am stunned others don't beleive the UN is the best
method to resolve issues between countries,
however flawed it may be.

Why is that? what has it done in the past to prove to you its anything but a waste of valuable real estate?

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Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #81 on: November 11, 2009, 12:55:50 AM »
Why is that? what has it done in the past to prove to you its anything but a waste of valuable real estate?

You do seem to be rather shortsighted.  What Kate proposes is the ideal that is behind the United Nations.   Now the truth of that idea is often not the same as especially evident in the voting records of all of the security council  members of nations.  As it is open info and you can look it up and see each ones voting records.   

But to say it is a waste now that is pure ignorance.   The relief it brings to millions.  Allowing nations that normally would not work together to come together under the cloak of the United Nations in general humanity in helping out those hit by a disaster man made or natural.   Bringing about peer pressure of nations on human rights.  It might not end such, but does bring the pressure and keeps it in the focus of the world.

There has been many instances of UN using forces dedicated to the UN mission in securing the peace of a country and disputed area.   Just as there has been failures at this.  But the world is a complex place especially when it comes to the various peoples and there values and beliefs.  Which often leads to conflicts.

BUt over all the idea of the United Nations is sound.   And if you think I have singled you out. Your arguing with no information to defend your opinion.  As it seems your almost just posting to be contrary to others.   

Offline Oniya

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Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #82 on: November 11, 2009, 01:24:52 AM »
I never said that it wasn't a good method of settling disputes - provided that the two nations want to settle disputes, it is a less-biased way of doing it than having one country play Peacemaker.  The problem is that Israel and Palestine seem to both want the verdict to be 'You're right, the other side has to pack up and leave.'  In that case, even King Solomon would be hard pressed to deliver a verdict everyone was happy with.

Offline KateTopic starter

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #83 on: November 11, 2009, 02:32:54 AM »
Im not saying the UN would solve it easily or quickly.

It would be messy for a while.

But it is the most independant structure countries have.

Saying "well it doesn't work so its a waste"

is like saying
 
"well failures exist in the court system - it doesn't "work" so lets all just throw it away"

Offline Cythieus

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #84 on: November 11, 2009, 04:23:31 AM »
The problem with the UN and why many don't see it as a good judge is that they turn a blind eye to many of the things Palestine do and when Israel retaliates they jump all over them and act as if it was unprovoked. The UN even allows Palestine to do things that if done by anyone else would be considered blatant acts of war and gives them a free pass. For instance when Palestine elected Hamas as their defense force, that's pretty much a reason to go to war right there.

When you have a group who's goal is to eradicate you and they don't see you as having right to be there and then someone goes and votes them into power, Israel has a right to protect itself.

The UN also turns a blind eye to the things done to them by Hamas, such as the Hamas stealing food from the people in Palestine. Or the fact that Hamas constantly uses Human sheilds and sets up attacks and mortars on the roofs of schools, hospitals, and other places like that. During the last beat down Israel gave them, they were reported by Palestinians as having fired mortars from behind a building where people were taking shelter.

Speaking of the last little fight, Israel was on a cease fire to which they were the only ones abiding. Hamas continually fired rockets into their settlements and nothing was said or done by the UN to speak out on the attacks. When Israel lashes back and kicks the shit out of them, everyone wonders why.

No one in here could believe that if your neighboring country just shot at you on a near daily basis for six weeks that anyone has a right to get mad at you for stopping them, especially after such a long time of it happening.

I've always thought it was shitty that Palestinians had their country taken away.

Wasn't their land when it was given away I don't think. And a lot of countries get borders drawn on them without anyone else's say so. Instead of trying to co-exist with them they've taken the stance that they must be killed off and even voted people into government to fulfill this.


Using the Bible for justification of anything like this really pisses me off.  This is a big world and not everyone follows the same religion.  I don't believe the Jews are entitled to shit.  If they lost the land that's their problem.  It's not anyone else's place to step in and do anything. 


Where did anyone say the Bible anything, I love how people act like the Jews are so religious when they're actually pretty secular. How about the fact that Palestine didn't actually own the land when it was handed over. Palestinians in WWII in some ways sided with the Axis powers. When you lose a war or pick the losing side you lose your shit. That's how it goes, too bad so sad. And if its no one's place to step in and give it to them as you said, how come all of a sudden when Israel is taking more of it back does someone have to step in and stop them?

To everyone who compares the Palestinians to the Native Americans the WWII thing is the big difference. Why isn't anyone in here complaining about how we keep the Germans or the Japanese on a short leash? Why is it not okay to do the same with Palestine? They're plight is a direct result of them siding with the loser.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 04:48:33 AM by Odin »

Offline Jude

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #85 on: November 11, 2009, 07:50:20 AM »
The problem with the UN and why many don't see it as a good judge is that they turn a blind eye to many of the things Palestine do and when Israel retaliates they jump all over them and act as if it was unprovoked. The UN even allows Palestine to do things that if done by anyone else would be considered blatant acts of war and gives them a free pass. For instance when Palestine elected Hamas as their defense force, that's pretty much a reason to go to war right there.
The UN doesn't really slap either side on the wrist honestly.  They have more right to punish Israel than Palestine, considering it was under UN terms that Israel even formed.  They've broken those terms repeatedly with their colonization.  Not to mention they've killed UN Peacekeepers by accident with their various offenses on numerous occasions.  I have no doubt Palestine's guilty of the same thing however.  Just pretending like Israel is so faultless is well, ridiculous.

When you have a group who's goal is to eradicate you and they don't see you as having right to be there and then someone goes and votes them into power, Israel has a right to protect itself.
Ask why Hamas got put into power to begin with.  If the situation wasn't so bad, they never would've been able to seize control really.

The UN also turns a blind eye to the things done to them by Hamas, such as the Hamas stealing food from the people in Palestine. Or the fact that Hamas constantly uses Human sheilds and sets up attacks and mortars on the roofs of schools, hospitals, and other places like that. During the last beat down Israel gave them, they were reported by Palestinians as having fired mortars from behind a building where people were taking shelter.
I'm not really sure how you can claim to even be remotely unbiased in your statements when you use the phrase "beat down" to describe a military offensive.

Speaking of the last little fight, Israel was on a cease fire to which they were the only ones abiding. Hamas continually fired rockets into their settlements and nothing was said or done by the UN to speak out on the attacks. When Israel lashes back and kicks the shit out of them, everyone wonders why.
Again, really biased language.  Your facts are sort of suspect in that you talk about the UN not speaking out as if it's a single entity.  Lots of member nations condemned what was going on, did the UN as a whole?  Possibly not.  Have you seen the list of UN Security Council Resolutions against Israel that the United States exercised veto-power to single handedly shoot down?

No one in here could believe that if your neighboring country just shot at you on a near daily basis for six weeks that anyone has a right to get mad at you for stopping them, especially after such a long time of it happening.
Ignoring context.

Wasn't their land when it was given away I don't think. And a lot of countries get borders drawn on them without anyone else's say so. Instead of trying to co-exist with them they've taken the stance that they must be killed off and even voted people into government to fulfill this.
What're you basing this off of exactly?  Figureheads of various Jihadist organizations love to state the whole death to Israel mantra, but I'd love to see some actual figures that prove that the majority of the Palestinian people would settle for nothing less than the destruction of Israel.

Where did anyone say the Bible anything, I love how people act like the Jews are so religious when they're actually pretty secular.
Generalize much?  Again, statistics.  If you're gonna make a claim that Israel is primarily secular, prove it.

How about the fact that Palestine didn't actually own the land when it was handed over. Palestinians in WWII in some ways sided with the Axis powers. When you lose a war or pick the losing side you lose your shit. That's how it goes, too bad so sad. And if its no one's place to step in and give it to them as you said, how come all of a sudden when Israel is taking more of it back does someone have to step in and stop them?
Justifying current action by past wrongs is a little silly.  First of all, the Palestinians you claim sided with the Nazis are all dead, dying, or in the twilight of their life.  The young people there did nothing to deserve this.  Secondly, it isn't about justice in returning the land to its rightful owners, et cetera, et cetera.  This is about resolving the conflict more than anything and the "too bad so sad" attitude doesn't really... resolve much of anything.  All it succeeds in is being incredibly callous and counterproductive.

Even if you're a supporter of Israel some of the views exposed in your post are quite honestly shockingly extreme.

To everyone who compares the Palestinians to the Native Americans the WWII thing is the big difference. Why isn't anyone in here complaining about how we keep the Germans or the Japanese on a short leash? Why is it not okay to do the same with Palestine? They're plight is a direct result of them siding with the loser.
I missed the part where post-war Germany and Japan were treated anything like Palestine.  You can't honestly believe that being kept "on a short leash" is an accurate description of the way they're being treated.

Palestine isn't guiltless, but Israel isn't perfect.  And the pro-Israel attitude to the extreme of refusing to even consider that the country has made its own share of mistakes is essentially plugging your ears and going "la la la."
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:52:16 AM by Jude »

Offline Jude

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2009, 08:11:48 AM »
That is an extreme option, and would certainly lead to a lot of problems.  BUT, since it does seem that we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, I could go along with that.  We could stop throwing money and resources (and lives) at a problem we can't solve, and turn it toward making things better here.
Before I explain why that's an inaccurate reading of American Foreign policy, I'd like to say I actually agree with you.  The Middle East situation isn't our problem and I think we should pull out of there and let the people over there deal with it.  I don't care if we went into Afghanistan and Iraq when we shouldn't have, I don't think it makes us responsible to stay unless the people actually want us doing that.  And I really don't think they do.

But as far this misconception of America as the World Police trying to help the world be a better place, that's a nice fairy tale, but completely ignorant of the reality.  America does what America does in the world in order to promote regimes, political ideologies, and rulers that are in its best interest.  People may disagree with me here, but the facts are with me.  I won't even touch on the Native American land grabbing, that's far too easy, lets start with...

Spanish-American War:  Propaganda War in the media incited by business interests (who want freer economic access to Cuba) creates public outcry for Cuba's liberation from Spain.

Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine:  Excuse to bully South American Nations to open up their markets for free/favorable trade and American investors.

World War I:  America wanted to stay out until the Germans attacked the Lusitania and committed a few acts of sabotage.  It also helped that the allies incurred a larger debt, so if they were defeated we would've been out a lot of money.

World War II:  The money thing also comes into play here, but more than that Japan drew us into this war.

Post WWII US intervention in Greece:  This one's rarely mentioned.  Fear of Communism led the United States to involve itself here.  Communism meant closed economic markets and essentially the death of a trading partner.

The Marshall Plan:  Can't export goods to devastated countries if they can't afford to pay for them.  It was an investment on their recovery so that we wouldn't suffer the same overproduction/no where to trade problems that led to the Great Depression.  Also, again, fear of Communism.

Korean War:  Fear of Communism; wanted to keep markets open for our influence.

Viernam:  See above.

Iraq:  Fear of Communism Terrorism; wanted to keep markets open/create a market to for our influence by creating a stable Capitalist Democracy in the region that would (in theory) spread.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 08:12:54 AM by Jude »

Offline Will

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #87 on: November 11, 2009, 09:18:35 AM »
Kate, you still never answered my question.

Exactly why are you so sure the U.N. can solve the situation in the Middle East?  "Because it's meant to" falls a little flat, as does saying it will do a "better job than the U.S."  That's not really saying much. ::)

And Jude, I'm not really trying to paint the Iraq/Afghanistan actions as something altruistic.  Motivations do not enter into this.  Whatever the reasons for the U.S. being there, it's a broken situation now, and there's no sense in wasting our time, money, resources, and lives on it.  That is all I'm saying, period.

Offline Cythieus

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #88 on: November 11, 2009, 12:03:57 PM »
The UN doesn't really slap either side on the wrist honestly.  They have more right to punish Israel than Palestine, considering it was under UN terms that Israel even formed.  They've broken those terms repeatedly with their colonization.  Not to mention they've killed UN Peacekeepers by accident with their various offenses on numerous occasions.  I have no doubt Palestine's guilty of the same thing however.  Just pretending like Israel is so faultless is well, ridiculous.
Ask why Hamas got put into power to begin with.  If the situation wasn't so bad, they never would've been able to seize control really.
I'm not really sure how you can claim to even be remotely unbiased in your statements when you use the phrase "beat down" to describe a military offensive.
Again, really biased language.  Your facts are sort of suspect in that you talk about the UN not speaking out as if it's a single entity.  Lots of member nations condemned what was going on, did the UN as a whole?  Possibly not.  Have you seen the list of UN Security Council Resolutions against Israel that the United States exercised veto-power to single handedly shoot down?
Ignoring context.
What're you basing this off of exactly?  Figureheads of various Jihadist organizations love to state the whole death to Israel mantra, but I'd love to see some actual figures that prove that the majority of the Palestinian people would settle for nothing less than the destruction of Israel.
Generalize much?  Again, statistics.  If you're gonna make a claim that Israel is primarily secular, prove it.
Justifying current action by past wrongs is a little silly.  First of all, the Palestinians you claim sided with the Nazis are all dead, dying, or in the twilight of their life.  The young people there did nothing to deserve this.  Secondly, it isn't about justice in returning the land to its rightful owners, et cetera, et cetera.  This is about resolving the conflict more than anything and the "too bad so sad" attitude doesn't really... resolve much of anything.  All it succeeds in is being incredibly callous and counterproductive.

Even if you're a supporter of Israel some of the views exposed in your post are quite honestly shockingly extreme.
I missed the part where post-war Germany and Japan were treated anything like Palestine.  You can't honestly believe that being kept "on a short leash" is an accurate description of the way they're being treated.

Palestine isn't guiltless, but Israel isn't perfect.  And the pro-Israel attitude to the extreme of refusing to even consider that the country has made its own share of mistakes is essentially plugging your ears and going "la la la."

Israel Secularism: http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,469996,00.html

And I'm not putting my hands to my ears going lalala. I don't support Israel's blowing up ambulances for no reason or the other wacky stuff they get away with but at the same time I see a lot of stuff the Palestinians do and everyone feels so sorry for them. And that military assault was a beatdown. There's other more colorful, accurate terms to describe it but that's what it was. If we (the US) beat someone that badly we'd make it a nation holiday (in fact when the Texas revolution had a battle like that...it was a Holiday)

Israel might have run one of the most successful military campaigns in the past decade, they hit their targets when they were gathered, worked to lower casulties on their side and with the civilians and they did it all cleaner this time.

Offline KateTopic starter

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #89 on: November 11, 2009, 09:24:25 PM »
Will - I was addressing this comment of yours

Quote
But the U.N. can't make everyone happy any better than the U.S.  No matter what they decide to do, it will leave large groups of people feeling screwed.  Who is going to get the blame then?  The U.N.?  I'm doubtful.

I am not trying to say the UN will solve it - but I am not agreeing that america would do an equal or better job than what the UN could do.

then I started going on about how the UN (for all its flaws) is more likely to make the situation more happy (not solve) due to its structure of intention.

Do I beleive the UN will be able to wave a magic wand and everyone is all roses ?

No.

The middle east is so messy to me its like a bitter nasty divorce, that one doesnt ever get "over" - the best of what could be hoped for is a new "love interest" ie a new (economic/trade/debt release/funded infrastructure development) opportunity to spend attention towards ...

the past stays a bitter memory none hope to solve that
... but it becomes less releavent in increasing degrees of being faded and watered down when one has something else to look forward to.

America as the moderator is part of the problem from a Palestinian perspective - even if the USA's actions are more intelligent and 100 percent objective it is a problem - just because of the sour taste some there have of "america"

- its like a mediator is someone you hate passionately - and you beleive is bias against your divorcee and frankly part of the problem etc)

Part of the problem of why the UN could be frustrated "lessening the problem there" is that America does/would VETO many things the UN would propose to do (ie veto less pro-israel stances)

I agree with one thing of yours Will (Not being american myself)... is that america should wash their hands of it as soon as possible ( ie the Americans are sick of hearing about it).

To do that ... America needs to give up their vested interest in that area. Don't try and "win" anything there anymore.

One MAJOR problem comes from stances like

"We will ensure past american deaths in that area are for a good cause ... we will make them MEAN something ... by being hard and continuing and not letting them set us back .. forging our determination to retain or views strongly despite opposition until prevail / win... so history ends with us triumphant .. what is god what is good is americas intention becoming manifest ... ra ra ra"

 ... <groan> ... how about learning from them instead by stop being involved ? Red light - bad debt  - Abort / write off whatever intentions you have there (including pride retention).

How ?


STOP IGNORING OR VETOING UN DECISIONS CONCERNING THE MIDDLE EAST


hmm actually ... if america really wants to grow up,

stop vetoing any UN decision ... period.
.. better - push to absolve veto powers (with so many with nukes now they dont represent who is the most dangerous).

... if a decision is not pro-america ? "Too bad .. so sad"
... swallow the pill ... take your medicine, deal with it, move on.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 09:59:18 PM by Kate »

Offline Will

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #90 on: November 11, 2009, 09:42:51 PM »
I really don't think the Middle East is going to be solved by infrastructure development, or investment, or anything else for that matter.  It is unsolvable, in my opinion, by the U.S., the U.N., or any other acronym you want to throw at it.  There are too many groups who don't want this "messy divorce" to be forgotten (i.e., extremists), and they have the ability to make sure that it is not.

I guess I have to restate my point.  The people there will hate the U.S. no matter what, so there's no reason for us to waste our resources.  I don't even care what the U.N. does after we're gone, but if it involves any American resources whatsoever, I will be against it.  I think even the U.N. would be wasting their time there.

Offline Cythieus

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #91 on: November 11, 2009, 09:49:15 PM »
The problem in the Middle East is that the two main approaches to dealing with something don't work, you can't ignore them because when you do they complain about how the world has turned a blind eye but if you go to help them then you're invading their life and forcing your life style on them.

Offline KateTopic starter

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #92 on: November 11, 2009, 10:05:23 PM »
Will ... (phew)

the thread title is not "how to solve the middle east"

(which america seems to view as peace + "legitimate government" everywhere (ie democracy which is not corrupted by anything other than america)...

as condition for america leaving.

pfft ... may as well invade all those countries and put a few more stars on the american flag)

it is concerning america's stance there.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 10:09:59 PM by Kate »

Offline Will

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #93 on: November 11, 2009, 10:09:05 PM »
How to solve the Middle East pertains very strongly to -my- stance there.  As an American, I thought I was within the thread bounds.

Regardless, this discussion has been rather circular, so I think I'm done with it anyway.

pfft ... may as well invade all those countries and put a few more stars on the american flag)

I also thought it was an intelligent discussion, and not a bash-fest.

Offline KateTopic starter

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #94 on: November 11, 2009, 10:19:05 PM »
Will ...

I agree ! Dont waste your resources expecting "this thread" to go the way you want to - leaving / washing your hands of this "insanity" is a better option.

Peace in the middle east can not be "solved" while america acts on a vested interest there.

Leave it up to them and the UN ...
america wants to help the peace process there ?

Respect the UN's stances there.

I have NO problem with american troups being in the middle east flushing out "terroists" (right or wrong) or whatever, making poor decisions, or good ones

.. on ONE condition

their uniform doesnt show the american flag, but shows

"United Nations"


with orders and objectives directed by the united nations ...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 10:42:36 PM by Kate »

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Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #95 on: November 11, 2009, 11:01:02 PM »
Will ...

I agree ! Dont waste your resources expecting "this thread" to go the way you want to - leaving / washing your hands of this "insanity" is a better option.

Peace in the middle east can not be "solved" while america acts on a vested interest there.

Leave it up to them and the UN ...
america wants to help the peace process there ?

Respect the UN's stances there.

I have NO problem with american troups being in the middle east flushing out "terroists" (right or wrong) or whatever, making poor decisions, or good ones

.. on ONE condition

their uniform doesnt show the american flag, but shows

"United Nations"


with orders and objectives directed by the united nations ...

Kate I am puzzled at this, there is no American troops in the GAZA strip or West Bank.  The only outside influence that is asserted by your reasoning by the United States is how they vote on the Security council.  In regards in support Israel.   Just as France votes in favor of Iran in regards because of the oil.   

Because contrary to popular belief all of the middle east is not just one nation.  That it is a host of various nations.  That at times hate each other just as much as they hate Israel. 

An speaking of the UN.  the WFP  world food program.    Did you realize that out of the wealthiest nations Arab Muslim states.  Give the least, and part of this is because it could be used to give to non believers. 

Oh and the next time Syria goes into Lebanon under a false pretense in attempt to acquire land.  And of course Israel is the only one to respond.  I guess that will be Israel aggression again.   

I am not disputing you that the UN should take a stronger roll there.   Just don't see what your talking about United States pulling out.  Pull out of what, Iraq, that is a separate issue and aside from being within the middle east.  Is not the Palestinian conflict. 



Offline Cythieus

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #96 on: November 11, 2009, 11:11:46 PM »
The only thing that we have in Israel is weapons systems, but I am pretty sure that they have provided us with some things too (they sure provided Iran with some, or rather Iran photoshopped some Israeli photos to pass off.)

Offline KateTopic starter

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #97 on: November 11, 2009, 11:56:54 PM »
Your both right - I did go off into a tangent myself - my bad.

I did tangent to voice my thoughts on another view of
How to "solve" the Middle East  ... which frankly is a related issue (and a lot bigger one).

I apologize for being two faced on "context relevance"
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 12:24:00 AM by Kate »

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Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #98 on: November 12, 2009, 12:16:25 AM »
I have a hypothetical question regarding the middle east as a whole.   

What happens when the oil dries up and there is no more.  Now will the nations now with invested interest continue to support the various countries.   Or will they back away. I mean France,  Germany are dealing with high unemployment.  I am sure if not for the oil they would not be invested money wise in the middle east.  The same can be said of any of the nations that depend on oil.    So as the world shifts and the oil runs out and new fuel sources are turned to.  Who will still be there.   The only answer I have is the United States.    I mean as noble as the United Nations is by concept it needs to be funded by all the nations.  It does not generate its own revenue.   I mean this is evident right now with the civil war still waging in the Dafur province of Sudan.  Any of your nations could step up and go in and stop the genocide.  But of course the world is waiting on the United States and when we do, we will be instantly condemned.   But then again if we don't act which is likely we will be hated for that.  Regardless no one else acted either. 

Just like now the US will be villain flied.   Because it is a no win situation, if do were dammed and if we don't were dammed in the rest of the worlds eyes.   

Offline KateTopic starter

Re: America what is with your current stance between Israel and Palestine ?
« Reply #99 on: November 12, 2009, 12:25:47 AM »
judging by history....

Same as what happens in africa when a local resource is exhausted by an external mining company.