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Author Topic: It's time for a third gender option.  (Read 5469 times)

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Offline VekseidTopic starter

It's time for a third gender option.
« on: May 29, 2009, 08:38:26 AM »
We have about thirty here at this point that I am at least vaguely aware of, and the real number should probably closer to sixty to a hundred. Each month we get a more clearly intersexed person, though we've had them from the very beginning.

I hate the word 'other' though - it's a cop-out. It's done elsewhere but that doesn't quite fit here. "Hijra" is sometimes considered derogatory and may imply an unneeded cultural aspect.

So instead of Lord or Lady, does anyone have any suggestions? This is something I'm rather set on doing at this point and you will have a difficult time convincing me that it is not needed. Originally I was just thinking of made up words but that may just confuse people (it often does).

The Knight/Dame and other equivalents are a lot easier - Sentinel, Justiciar, etc. As with Satyr we'll burn the promotion bridge when we get to it : )

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2009, 08:39:24 AM »
Hairy suggested 'Noble', which is probably what I will pick if ideas are otherwise scarce.

Offline Greenthorn

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2009, 09:02:42 AM »
sovereign- 1 a: one possessing or held to possess sovereignty b: one that exercises supreme authority within a limited sphere c: an acknowledged leader : arbiter

Consul- During the time of ancient Rome as a Republic, the consuls were the highest civil and military magistrates


Offline Valerian

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2009, 09:07:51 AM »
Gentry might also work, as in landed gentry -- usually referring to the social class just below nobility, also including those who are given the non-inheritable title of knight or dame.

Offline Oniya

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Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 09:10:22 AM »
I'd go with Gentry for the Lord\Lady level, followed by Consul for the Knight/Dame tier, and maybe Sovereign for one of the higher levels?  Although I would say that English really sucks as far as options for the gender-free go.

(Not that I had much luck with other languages - the closest I could find for a term that wasn't potentially insulting was 'kinnar', which is a term used in India to replace the more pejorative 'hirae'.)

Offline Greenthorn

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 09:19:43 AM »
I'd go with Gentry for the Lord\Lady level, followed by Consul for the Knight/Dame tier, and maybe Sovereign for one of the higher levels?  Although I would say that English really sucks as far as options for the gender-free go.

(Not that I had much luck with other languages - the closest I could find for a term that wasn't potentially insulting was 'kinnar', which is a term used in India to replace the more pejorative 'hirae'.)

I like that Oniya.  I agree with Gentry, then Consul and Sovereign would be in place of Siren/Satyr  ;D

Online HairyHeretic

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Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 09:23:56 AM »
Consul and Sovereign would work, but you'd kinda lose the mythological feel you have with Siren and Satyr. I think I'd have to poke around to find something suitable there. Given the shapeshifting some of the fae types were reputed to be able to do, Gentry might fit in with Siren and Satyr (or maybe Sidhe, since that's the local one here).

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 09:34:36 AM »
Well, there's a reason I used warrior-style titles for the donor titles.

Offline Oniya

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Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2009, 09:35:05 AM »
Sidhe would be perfect (in my humble opinion) for the Siren\Satyr level.  You have both the mythical being (Gentry may have been used to describe the Fair Folk, but it is also used in a more mundane sense) and the ambiguity.

Offline Valerian

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2009, 09:45:43 AM »
There aren't a great many gender-neutral/ambiguous mythological creatures, unfortunately.  Sidhe is probably the best option as far as I can think of... the doppelgänger isn't inherently male or female, but that's awfully long, and who wants to mess with umlauts?   :P

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Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2009, 09:46:04 AM »
Well, there's a reason I used warrior-style titles for the donor titles.

Well, Justiciar would fit there. Hatamoto might as well. Guardian is a fairly neutral term too.

Offline Valerian

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2009, 09:50:13 AM »
Justiciar does have a nice ring to it.  *nods*  More of a legal warrior, but the title was first used to refer to the person acting as regent while the king was away, so it does imply power.

Offline Xillen

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2009, 09:53:58 AM »
Sidhe is also starting with an S and 5 letters just like Siren and Satyr, making it easy to recognize.

On that account, something short starting with an L would be nice for an alternative to Lord/Lady, but my english ain't well enough to offer suggestions.

I don't like Consul. I could be off here, but to me it sounds like someone you can consult, ask for information, which seems inappropriate.

Likewise, I don't like Justicar either, as it implies some kind of moderator level.

Noble sounds more like the Knight/Dame level to me.

Offline Bliss

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2009, 10:16:27 AM »
I'm with Xillen, in that I think Sidhe would work really well for the same stated reasons for the S-level staff... the big concern here though is simply what term to use for the basic level of non-donating membership.

I was also trying to think of something to fall in line with the Lord/Lady convention... Short, noble, starting with L. I'm not fond of Gentry, just because (initial letter concerns notwithstanding) it's a word that refers to a group of people, not a single person.

Offline Xillen

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2009, 10:21:30 AM »
Also, what color are they going to get? I'd say teal, save to the fact that we're using overly much shades of blue already.

Will there also be a third Gender option in your profile?

Offline grdell

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2009, 10:22:48 AM »
Here's a wild idea - feel free to shoot it down, you won't hurt my feelings  ;) - what about not specifying gender at all in the title? You already use non-gender specific words for the number of posts (Seducer, et al), it could easily be accomplished to come up with more to indicate their position in the hierarchy. Rely instead on the Mars/Venus symbols (which some members lack... why?) for those that identify themselves with a gender, allowing those that do not associate with a specific gender to leave that blank or insert a different symbol, possibly of their own design? In that way, it would be obvious to everyone for all who identify with a specific gender to make it clear, and those that do not to choose to remain ambiguous or specify that they do not identify with a binary gender.

Just a thought.

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2009, 10:25:12 AM »
Sidhe is currently a post member rank, but that's easily fixed. Currently the only member at that level is MadPanda >_>  Guardian works for the knight/dame level.

And English has no problem with mugging other languages in a dark ally and rifling through their pockets for loose vocabulary. If you have a foreign L word that implies nobility and is not obviously lord/lady, please let us know :-p Unfortunately I only know the formal terms of Japanese, which has no real 'l' sound, just a cross between r and l that most English speakers interpret as 'r' with the tongue nearer to the front of the mouth rather than the back.

Here's a wild idea - feel free to shoot it down, you won't hurt my feelings  ;) - what about not specifying gender at all in the title? You already use non-gender specific words for the number of posts (Seducer, et al), it could easily be accomplished to come up with more to indicate their position in the hierarchy. Rely instead on the Mars/Venus symbols (which some members lack... why?) for those that identify themselves with a gender, allowing those that do not associate with a specific gender to leave that blank or insert a different symbol, possibly of their own design? In that way, it would be obvious to everyone for all who identify with a specific gender to make it clear, and those that do not to choose to remain ambiguous or specify that they do not identify with a binary gender.

Just a thought.

You know the Lord's only forum? Have any idea how much grief I had because Sirens could read it?

Yeah.

Offline Bliss

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2009, 10:26:19 AM »
While not an issue for everyone, for some of our members it does quite matter what gender of writer they're working with. We've always had a deliberate separation of writer from characters, and a push toward honest revelation of basic information; specifically gender, age (at least that it's above 18).

Writing aside, gender also matters in terms of the gender-specific boards. We have one for Lords, and one for Ladies; to obliterate gender assignment of members would mean getting rid of these areas that I know at least for the Ladies are often a source of information and encouragement, and I imagine are likely also a haven for the Lords as well.

Edit: Yeah, what Vek said. :D

Offline grdell

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2009, 10:28:03 AM »
While not an issue for everyone, for some of our members it does quite matter what gender of writer they're working with. We've always had a deliberate separation of writer from characters, and a push toward honest revelation of basic information; specifically gender, age (at least that it's above 18).

Writing aside, gender also matters in terms of the gender-specific boards. We have one for Lords, and one for Ladies; to obliterate gender assignment of members would mean getting rid of these areas that I know at least for the Ladies are often a source of information and encouragement, and I imagine are likely also a haven for the Lords as well.

Edit: Yeah, what Vek said. :D

I'm not talking about obliterating it completely - I just meant getting rid of the words. Couldn't you filter based on different criteria? That symbol's got to be coming from somewhere.

Offline Bliss

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2009, 10:29:44 AM »
We'd be retaining the badges for other levels, though, including donators (Knights/Dames) and staff.... it wouldn't look right to deny badging for everybody else.

The gender symbol is coming from gender being set in your profile.

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2009, 10:30:06 AM »
People actually consider the color distinction between genders here to be a feature - I plan on reworking the mentors to duplicate that, even.

Offline Greenthorn

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2009, 10:32:58 AM »
IMO and I've said this before..why not trash the lord/lady/dame/knight titles altogether and use the symbols.

It would greatly get rid of the need to create a new name! 

This one for those who wish:




Minus the colors on the pic..they are obnoxious

Offline Greenthorn

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2009, 10:35:00 AM »
Err and why not just do grouping...

lords and ladies in ONE group

dames/knights in another

I mean mentors are ONE group despite gender...and aren't mentors supposed to be reg members who help?  So ummm yeah..

(excuse any strangeness in the above...Today is day one without a cigarette for me arghhhhhh)

Offline Xillen

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2009, 10:36:27 AM »
While not an issue for everyone, for some of our members it does quite matter what gender of writer they're working with. We've always had a deliberate separation of writer from characters, and a push toward honest revelation of basic information; specifically gender, age (at least that it's above 18).

But it seems that in the past few months, it's shifted more towards what you like to have up there, instead of what you really are, which kinda defeats the purpose.

http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=29801 for details on this.

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: It's time for a third gender option.
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2009, 10:40:06 AM »
...that's part of the reason for the new title, Xillen.