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Author Topic: Shoutbox Rules.  (Read 2568 times)

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Offline KarmaTopic starter

Shoutbox Rules.
« on: April 22, 2009, 06:50:17 AM »
I think we need them. I've seen enough conflicts, confusion, and general lack of knowledge about what's okay and what isn't that if we don't get a reference point for it that EVERYONE can see, including unapproveds, it's just going to keep getting worse as the site continues to grow. Hell, I had a problem with this myself before I was approved. As in real life, what seems to be common knowledge usually isn't, so if it isn't stated outright somewhere, it's unreasonable to expect everyone to know what's okay and/or scorning them for not. This has actually caused me to diminish my presence in the SB recently, not only because I'm never quite sure what's okay (even though I'm not that often in danger of going over the edge) but because I keep seeing people doing things that are or probably will be over the limit and simply not wanting to be involved. It's impacting the accessibility of the site, as far as I'm concerned.
Sorry if I ranted or didn't make sense.

Offline Duncan

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 06:57:22 AM »
I found this in my time away from the SB maybe it will help.

here

Offline KarmaTopic starter

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 06:59:44 AM »
Yeah, that's a help, but I'm not talking only about ratings-related things. I'm talking about member conduct in general, which includes a very wide range of things. If we want to keep the Shoutbox as the "face" of the site, we're going to need more guidelines than that as everyone's opinions of what's acceptable is different.

Offline The Golden Touch

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 06:59:53 AM »
I agree with Karma that we need to have clear rules posted.  I know there have been many rants that include problems with multiple things, the Shoutbox included.  To prevent ourselves from having to constantly, constantly, constantly point out to unapproved members, as well as the approved, we need to have something that everyone can clearly find and read.

It could include the rating, and explain in very simple terms what that means.  Give examples and so on and so forth.  And rules, perhaps what will happen if you decide to start stripping and dancing around in the nude...

Just my opinion, hope that helps.


Offline Xillen

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 08:40:05 AM »
The shoutbox as the face of the site? *shudders*

The shoutbox on times is far, very far from being an accurate example of the site. The chat comes a lot closer as it's more averaged out, and people can handle their particular interests over PM/different channels.

Offline KarmaTopic starter

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 08:41:23 AM »
Even though I don't use the IRC regularly, I have to agree.

Offline Bliss

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 08:54:11 AM »
Some of you are newer, or may not have a tendency to go back occasionally and re-read the rules, and therefore might be unaware - not too long ago, we had a LOT more rules. There were rules, subsets of rules, delineation of extreme and extenuating circumstances... it became unweildy, and whats more, the more rules we had, with more specificity, the more it ended up actually giving some troublemakers wiggleroom to flout things and then complain that it wasn't EXPLICITLY verboten.

It was a pain in the ass, and was making all the admin staff very, very cranky. Have you seen me when I'm cranky? Have you seen TRIESTE when she's cranky? Combine that, and then multiply it by a cranky Elandra and exponent to the power of an irritated Vekseid, and you've got an idea of what a problem this was. Therefore, for our sanity and to let the whole site breathe better, we took a big shiny hatchet to the rules and pared it down to the true essentials. For the most part, we have all the rules we actually NEED - pretty much any issue refers back up to what is laid out.

Even our insistence that people keep the SB PG-13 has unfortunately kind of failed - it led to people attempting to use the false veil of a "PG-13 curtain" or "censored boxes" to indulge in things that they knew were not okay behaviors. That led to Trieste's post here.

And even still, we are having issues.

We are limited, as staff; would that I had truly goddessly powers - I would be able to stop problems in the SB before they begin, and most of us would be happier creatures for it. We cannot police the SB 24/7, and what's more, we should not have to. The shoutbox is a public area of the site, perhaps the singlemost visible part of it to anyone who comes to these forums, whether a member, an Applicant, or an unregistered guest.

I strongly encourage everyone to go reread the Rules, and in particular, I will here copy the two that most directly relate to the issues of misbehavior in the shoutbox:

Quote
2. Just because we do not say something is forbidden, does not mean it is welcome here. Be civil, be polite, and be respectful. If you are constantly rude, inconsiderate, or otherwise act like a jerk, we will smack your privileges around until you get the hint and behave. If you can't behave, you will be directed elsewhere.
Quote
6. Explicit content stays in the private forums and channels - for the forums, this means the right two columns of the site, and for the chat, it means outside of #Elliquiy. In general, keep the material on the public part of the site appropriate to a teenage audience. This includes signatures, avatars, and possibly other things in your profile. A slight exception is made for the various Wanted boards, but things should be talked about rather than explicitly described.

The second requires just a little extrapolation to understand its relevance - the shoutbox is a public area of the site as well, and should be kept appropriate. It should be a place for civil chat and discussion.

We have an application process on Elliquiy for the purpose of accepting members who are capable of mature and responsible behavior - and therefore we expect people to display mature, responsible behavior. We should not have to police the shoutbox, because, quite frankly, we believe in our members' ability to be capable adults, aware of and responsible for their own behavior and the impression they are projecting.

So ultimately, the rules of the shoutbox already exist, and are painfully simple: It is public space. We have all promised to be mature, civil adults. Behave like one, or risk losing privileges.

Offline KarmaTopic starter

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 08:56:18 AM »
Well, if that's the case, it'll be a public space that's going to see less and less of me, I suppose.

Online Vekseid

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 09:50:51 AM »
Maybe the solution is another round of staff promotions so that it can be better covered? Hm.

Offline Greenthorn

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 10:01:03 AM »
Maybe the SB should not be a default allowance? 


Offline Duncan

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 10:20:16 AM »
Yeah your right GT keep everyone from doing it except a few special people. lol j/k

A SB monitor is a good idea though help keeping people in check and such.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 10:45:06 AM »
I have answered this elsewhere.

Should make it clear that we're not putting in a whole set of rules for the SB.

"Be civil."

"Keep it PG-13, and bear in mind that it is the first thing newcomers see when they visit the site."

That is as much as we really should have to put in, and deliberately leaves a lot to the discretion of staff. It's sufficient until and unless E gets a lot bigger.

While we may need more coverage and enforcement, we do not need more rules.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 10:48:04 AM »
Remove SB = problem solved. ;D

*quickly hides*

Offline Greenthorn

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 10:54:10 AM »
Yeah your right GT keep everyone from doing it except a few special people. lol j/k

A SB monitor is a good idea though help keeping people in check and such.

Ummm..not what I was implying, Duncan. 

Offline Duncan

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 10:55:47 AM »
I know was playing hinse the J/K just kidding.

Offline Desan

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2009, 11:29:38 AM »
Maybe the solution is another round of staff promotions so that it can be better covered? Hm.

That may be the best idea.

Thar or like GT said, don't make the SB default allowance? (Members only?...)

Offline Bliss

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2009, 11:30:17 AM »
That doesn't really help when members are a large portion of the issues.

Offline Desan

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2009, 11:31:41 AM »
Then another round to cover the SB sounds like a better idea.

That way, lessen the burden of you guys having the worry of trying to keep order in the SB.

Offline Duncan

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2009, 11:33:56 AM »
Might need more then one so it is almost always coverd.

Offline Desan

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2009, 11:35:38 AM »
Maybe the solution is another round of staff promotions so that it can be better covered? Hm.
^Yes

Offline Trieste

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Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2009, 12:16:37 PM »
I am against adding more staff to police the SB. No amount of staff can police the SB as well as the members who use it. I think members should be expected to grab staff if they see something and can't say anything themselves, although a "Hey, get a room" kind of comment would probably go a long way toward cutting down on a lot of the crap that goes on in the SB.

The more we hand-hold, the less members will feel is expected of them, and the less they will give us. So, to be blunt, if we say "No. You are adults, you can deal with these rules and we trust your discretion" ... I feel like we will have to work a lot less than an alternative where people will not have to consider their actions as closely because they are so heavily policed.

I've noticed that throughout the internet and in real life, people who are trusted more are more trustworthy, and I think I would rather have a trustworthy membership than one that has been whipped into tired shape by a herd of rules and staffers.

Offline Ket

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Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2009, 12:21:48 PM »
I understand what you are saying Trieste, but at night, we're unable to get a hold of most staff members.  At 2 or 3 am (EST)  I rarely see a staff member's name on the list down there, yet the SB is still going strong...

Offline Greenthorn

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2009, 12:25:11 PM »
And I have to add that...umm...well according to a recent slap on my wrists, us members should not be correcting others...???

Offline Trieste

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Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2009, 12:28:32 PM »
Therein lies the difference: We already know we need a staffer who is on at night, and for that reason, adding staff is acceptable and expected. It's part of running the whole site. We need more coverage at night on the site as a whole at night, not just over the SB.

It's when we start adding staff members specifically for the SB that I get hesitant. Having someone available for general help and coverage? Cool. Having someone essentially sit and wait to curbstomp people who get rowdy in the SB (or IRC, for that matter)? Not so cool.

GT: There is a difference between "Hey get a room" and "ZOMG YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING THAT DON'T DO THAT IT'S WRONG" ... which I notice a lot of lately. Nobody reacts well to 'ur doin it rong'. Even the most mellow people I know get a little prickly at that approach.

Offline Caeli

Re: Shoutbox Rules.
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2009, 01:39:43 PM »
I understand what you are saying Trieste, but at night, we're unable to get a hold of most staff members.  At 2 or 3 am (EST)  I rarely see a staff member's name on the list down there, yet the SB is still going strong...

I am often, if not always, available at 2 or 3am EST, which is 11pm or 12am my time - and if not on E, then certainly on my various messengers. I haven't been maybe for the past week... but there are staff members on that late. =/