Could we talk about magic, mysticism etc. here?

[Beorning]

Just wondering:

I'm trying to learn about more about actual magic (for research purposes, not to do anything practical with it). So, would this forum be a right place to ask around about Crowley, Tarot, Wiccan magic etc.?

[Jag]

If you have questions about these sorts of things, we do have a nice thread for it:

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=191550.0

[Beorning]

Thanks! I'll definitely be looking at that thread :)

That said, not sure everything I'd like to talk about falls under Paganism and Wicca? I mean: Crowley, Thelema..?

Also, I'm curious about shamans, ecstatic experiences etc. And I'm curious whether this thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Sf4V1NQVg

seems like a legit bit from real Christian TV show, or some sort of parody (my sisters claims it must be)?

Overall, a lot of questions!

[Missy]

If that's not a parody, then it's the most bizarre religious junk I've ever seen.

[Callie Del Noire]

Yeah.. there are some of that speaking in tongues with in certain christian groups, typically the ones I know of are similar to the folks who handle snakes.

I had folks I went to high school with who said they received the 'gift of tongues' at prayer meets or at least saw it happened.

[Missy]

It's pretty amazing the stuff your brain can concoct if it's what you want it to do. I mean quite literally perception is reality and you actually don't need any real external stimuli in order to fathom something you want to fashion for yourself.

[Beorning]

Yeah, but this..? Hm. On the other hand, that woman doesn't seem to be acting...

I wonder if this is similar to how shamanic states work? Do you guys happen to know something about such experiences?

[Caela]

Yeah.. there are some of that speaking in tongues with in certain christian groups, typically the ones I know of are similar to the folks who handle snakes.

I had folks I went to high school with who said they received the 'gift of tongues' at prayer meets or at least saw it happened.

I will admit, this made me laugh. A lot Pentecostal churches have this to some degree without getting into the fully on crazy of handling snakes and such. I went to one for years before I escaped any form of organized religion and saw people have mind altering moments during deep prayer sessions. There was some speaking in tongues and people would lay hands on others and pray for healings (though not like revival tents where people would suddenly jump up and claim to be healed, it was usually just more supportive and positive energy in the form of prayer) but none of it was like the image most people have in their heads of snake handlers. Most of the folks were pretty normal and most services were pretty quiet most of the time.

[Humble Scribe]

It's a bit odd to me that Speaking in Tongues, which in the New Testament was the Holy Spirit giving the Apostles the gift of speaking foreign languages so that they could preach across the whole world, has come to mean "talking random gibberish". But evangelical Christianity is a bit odd in general.

[Humble Scribe]

Although I did enjoy the Neal Stephenson version of it in Snow Crash, where it is [SPOILERS] a memetic 'virus' that can hack into the 'programming language' of the brain.

[Regina Minx]

It's a bit odd to me that Speaking in Tongues, which in the New Testament was the Holy Spirit giving the Apostles the gift of speaking foreign languages so that they could preach across the whole world, has come to mean "talking random gibberish". But evangelical Christianity is a bit odd in general.

Well. Not really. See, Acts depicts speaking in tongues as the miraculous power to speak foreign languages fluently in an untaught way. But this is a mythic development of the far more mundane babble in random syllables that was practiced by early Christians then as Pentecostals do now. We know this because the Apostle Paul, writing way before Acts was composed, gives us the far more mundane version of speaking in tongues. In 1 Corinthians 14, we read "Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit." In fact, Paul describes the phenomenon thoroughly in 1 Corinthians 12-14

[Skynet]

The speaking in tongues and snake-handling, at least in the United States, grew up from Pentecostal movement. Which can easily be summed up as Christians who believe that faith can grant them supernatural powers wielded by the prophets of old. Furthermore, they believe that the act of worship is meant to be a joyous occasion and many of their churches encourage positive and emotional outbursts. Partially as a means of releasing pent-up feelings, and partially as part of religious rites. I personally have little problem with Pentocostals as long as they perform their faith in a healthy way; when you start teaching your congregation that you can handle dangerous animals without training and that does who die from snake venom merely didn't believe in Jesus hard enough, you're misusing your authority to encourage harmful behavior.

[Chulanowa]

Yeah, but this..? Hm. On the other hand, that woman doesn't seem to be acting...

I wonder if this is similar to how shamanic states work? Do you guys happen to know something about such experiences?

It's similar in that both utilize an ecstatic state to connect to a sense of divinity or nonordinary reality. Lots of faiths and practices incorporate ecstasy, trance, and removal from ordinary reality; Pentecostals speaking in tongues, black congregations engaging in spontaneous dance, sufi dervishes and Shia flagellants, the Lakota sun dance and Vodoun drumming and dances, and the NAC's use of peyote, for example. i would be extremely hesitant to label these as "shamanism' though. They use similar techniques to achieve similar states, but for different goals. A shaman isn't just disconnecting from ordinary reality, but actively seeking out a DIFFERENT reality, in order to find something in particular and bring it back.

[Shade74]

All these topics remind me of hearing about Helena Blavatsky. She was adamant that many people accessed lower spiritual forms often and didn't know how to truly access the spiritual world.

Russel Targ one of the initial members in remote viewing was very interested in magic stage shows and traded that for parapsychology. Seeing this as the real magic. I also read a book by Joe Gallenberger on PK (psychokinesis) where they light fluorescent light bulbs make seeds grow and bend metal objects.

From readings we did on mediums that passed on it is very clear that this reality is very much what you want from it. What is real and not is but an illusion. So magic is getting the most out of life I think.

Altered states can be achieved by breathing exercises or sensory deprivement, sweat huts, flotation chambers or certain forms of meditation. You can condition yourself to reach these. I am only interested in healing and not really altered states.

Hope this is informative.