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Author Topic: Star Wars sequels  (Read 4179 times)

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Offline Shale

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2019, 07:43:01 AM »
Wow, tried to skim this thread, but there's a lot to read here. So I'll just jump in with my two cents. My apologies if it's been covered.

When it comes down to it, I think the sequels suffered from one major factor. Time. I was so excited to hear Disney had aquired Star Wars—up until I heard there would be a movie every year. Right out of the gates I knew there were problems when JJ abrams tries to campaign to get the movie's release date pushed. Disney compromised by keeping it in the same year, just at the end of the year.

Simply put, there wasn't enough time to plan, and there wasn't enough time to make a proper story. Yes Marvel somehow makes it work, but Marvel is an exception. No other studio does this well. Even then, not all their movies hit the mark.

I enjoy the new Star Wars movies, to a certain extent. You can tell they feel rushed, the stories not refined nor polished.

The Force Awakens: I enjoyed it, as one would a popcorn flick. In the end that's what Star Wars is, but my biggest issue is the same as many others—but with a tweak. I hate that the story took a 180 to the familiar. What do I mean by that? Yes I didn't like that it was just another death star... but more importantly it diverted from the story—which was to find Luke Skywalker. They get the plans to find Luke Skywalker, but then it becomes about Rey being captured—and then blowing up the death star...er I mean starkiller base. Eventually Luke's Skywalkers map became less a plot device, and just a replacement for the Death Star plans. It could have been about a race between Rey and Kylo to find and kill/warn Luke. They also introduce a missing piece of the map... which is conveniently in R2D2 when he decides to wake up at the end... I rolled my eyes at this point.

Rogue One: I enjoyed this film very much—as a Star Wars fan who enjoys war films. That's what it was to me, a war film set in the Star Wars universe. So I can certainly understand the many people who don't enjoy it, because Star Wars was always more about adventure than about war, despite having "war" in the name. I didn't like the main characters much though, and hated how Jyn was a passive character only until the second half of the film—but it was still enjoyable.

The Last Jedi: Ooof, where to go with this. First, I hate the toxic fans mostly for the hate they give this film. I didn't like the film, but I had to take a step back from the hate bashing that came along with it, and especially when they turned against the actors, like the woman who played Rose. She didn't deserve it, she just wanted to be in a Star Wars film. Blame the writer for her character, not her.

I also didn't hate that Luke was different—and quite enjoyed it. I don't get the fans who complain about him not being him. People are allowed to change over the period of 30 years, especially if all your students are killed and your academy destroyed.

So I don't have the usual gripes most of the fans have. But I still didn't enjoy it. What I hated was this was clearly a response to the backlash of the Force Awakens. "They wants something different, so I'll give them something different." I think even on the press junket the actors pushed their buzz line of "things won't happen the way you think they will happen." So they gave us a traitor who--remained a traitor. A teacher who didn't teach. A bad guy who kills the "emperor" but doesn't turn good. It was more of a gimmick to me, and I just didn't get how that makes for a good story.

Then the lovers of the film have responded by "why do you hate it? They gave you exactly what you wanted!" How is the opposite of what's expected, exactly what we wanted? We wanted different. There are many places you can take a story—The Last Jedi was like the same, but just the opposite. They follow the same beats, but just turn them on their head.

Not to mention the writing was lackluster. It didn't feel like star wars, right from the beginning with Poe pretending he couldn't hear their transmission while he waited for the weapon to charge—then how he zipped around blasting all the turrets with ease—then the bombers with gravity (if the bombs were propulsion—why didn't they just launch them from far away?). So many things made me irk, like that purple haired woman who didn't tell them her plans because... reasons... then Rose and Finn who were able to get away... then the fact that they were being chased down—despite the first order having hyperspace capabilities... and I assume more than just a few ships? The jokes weren't landing, and then the Canto scene just made me think of the prequels. I sighed when they took those horses and stampeded everywhere... Time and time again, there were things that made me scratch my head and irk. I wasn't looking for these strange oddities, nor was I trying to analyze it while watching. I was trying to turn off my brain and enjoy a film—but there's only so much you can take. It just didn't feel like Star Wars, and that was the most disappointing part.

Han Solo - This one felt more solid to me. It wasn't a great film, but it was fun, enjoyable. It had a bit of trouble taking off, and I wasn't sure if I liked him as Han Solo—but it worked. But this was more what I was expecting out of Star Wars, a different story. Sure it was a bit of fan fare, showing us a story about a well known character, showing us how he got the millenium falcon and showing us the kessel run. But for what it was, it was well done. It even felt a bit like a western, and was solid in that regard. A bit disappointing that this may not get a sequel due to the backlash of the return of the Jedi.


In the end, if they had just taken their time with it—I think they would be a lot more solid. They all lacked a bit of refining, a bit of polish.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #76 on: January 27, 2019, 12:25:34 PM »
My big thing was they had plenty of content to incorporate into new movies until they declared all that the "Legends" continuity and non canon.

I actually have a friend who was confused as hell as she skimmed some stuff that was Post Return of the Jedi in the Legends lore until I cleared it up.

I also have to agree the "Marvel Schedule" is also really straining the quality

Marvel can get away with several movies a year on the grounds they are pulling from decades worth of comics. They take something from the comics and adapt it to the history they already built up from past movies.

The guys in charge of Star Wars are trying the schedule, but are doing things mostly from scratch. (Yes Kylo Ren is basically inspired by Jacen Solo, and the Solo Movie does rely on still canon details). With the occasional snippet remolded to fit this new continuity.

It doesn't have to be a word for word adaptation, but they had history they could have used that was well received but opted out of it.

That said, glad Thrawn is canon and I'm still hoping we get a badass Old Mara Jade someday on the screen. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Offline Tolvo

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #77 on: January 27, 2019, 01:35:21 PM »
Well they are still using a lot of the EU. Even the First Order is from the EU, as it is Thrawn's concept of the Empire of the Hand(And in the Disney books it was based on Gallius Rax's orders, using Thrawn's concept and knowledge of the Unknown Regions, formed by the leader of the Imperial Remnant Grand Admiral Rae Sloane). Before Disney I never thought I'd see Thrawn in anything but books and comics and the odd video game, now he's been the primary antagonist of a TV series and I wouldn't rule out him showing up in a movie in the future. Much of the EU is back in the books and the new movies are referencing the new books and comics quite a bit. Ransolm Casterfo was even originally in the script for the Last Jedi(They even wanted Tom Hiddleston to play him) and he's from Star Wars: Bloodline(The book explaining much of the politics and backstory of the New Republic and the Resistance). Darth Maul surviving and him being a crime lord from Clone Wars is now movie canon. A lot of what they talk about of fleets and organizations of the Empire are from the old EU. A lot of things are back and many are slightly altered but still similar to their original form. KOTOR is now loosely canon. Darth Revan even almost appeared in Clone Wars(Though George Lucas decided not to allow it, not because he didn't want Revan to be canon but he doesn't want any Dark Siders to have Force Ghosts). Republic Commando's events aren't canon but the squad appears in Clone Wars. Darth Bane and his story is still pretty similar and the Ruusan Reformation is back, much of the Old Republic main plots are the same(Even the Massassi are back though whether there is a full Sith Species yet is unknown). It's mainly the broad history that is different. But lots of characters are being made canon again(Dash Rendar is even back). They're more canon than they were under Lucas and Disney is being very specific and not making a difference between book and film canon and just considering them all canon(Other than ones marked as clearly non-canon, like the LEGO games).

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2019, 05:15:59 PM »
LEGO Star Wars will always be in my canon...

Offline Tolvo

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #79 on: January 28, 2019, 05:24:29 PM »
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ackbar_Tonight

At least in LEGO Star Wars Ackbar is still alive.

Offline Azuresun

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2019, 07:42:46 AM »
I'd agree with you about the graphics needing a redo, but other than that, I have only a couple of corny lines of dialogue to complain about (Some of Anakin's interactions with Padme were stilted and cringe-worthy). However, the same can be said about a lot of aspects regarding the originals as well.

One interesting thing about the prequels is that the bits without speaking are usually pretty good. When the actors aren't struggling with clunky dialogue that nobody could have made sound good, and can just express emotion. For example, there's a great bit at the climax of the first movie when the Jedi are seperated in the middle of the fight. Obi-Wan seethes with impatience, Darth Maul stalks up and down like a caged predator, never looking away from his prey, while Qui-Gon takes advantage of the moment of quiet to sit down and mediate.

Also, they gave us Backstroke of the West. :)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 07:51:00 AM by Azuresun »

Offline Tolvo

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2019, 08:02:34 AM »
One interesting thing about the prequels is that the bits without speaking are usually pretty good. When the actors aren't struggling with clunky dialogue that nobody could have made sound good, and can just express emotion. For example, there's a great bit at the climax of the first movie when the Jedi are seperated in the middle of the fight. Obi-Wan seethes with impatience, Darth Maul stalks up and down like a caged predator, never looking away from his prey, while Qui-Gon takes advantage of the moment of quiet to sit down and mediate.

A lot of problems with the prequels that aren't rooted in technology I think would be solved with "Show don't tell." But much of the story is told to us not shown to us. We don't see a lot of little friendly moments between Anakin and Obi Wan, we get told they're good friends and they make action movie quips and get told they like each other, then are shown they are completely different people that don't get along and if Obi Wan knew about even half of the things Anakin does he'd hate him, and does when Anakin does them openly(Purging the Jedi). Same goes for the romance, Padme and Anakin fall in love purely based on physical attraction. With a lot of lines basically being from Romeo and Juliet and Anakin at one point kills an entire village and talks about how while doing so he didn't even see them as people, and that he killed everyone trying to run who were just innocents, and that specifically he killed all the children. That's not attractive unless Padme is also a really evil person, and just the announcement of the Empire was enough to make her flip on Palpatine so she doesn't strike me as uncaring about the lives of others.

Show Anakin and Obi Wan having actual friendly moments, show that they have anything in common, show them outside of battle helping each other. Show these sorts of things and don't just show us how they are not even remotely compatible and end up trying to kill each other. Dexter and Obi Wan seem more like friends than Obi Wan and Anakin. I'm struggling to think of anything positive Anakin does in Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith that isn't just personally advantageous to him or killing his enemies. He doesn't go back and free all the slaves on Tatooine, in general the Jedi don't do many good things more so just what they're personally involved in and what defeats their enemies. In the prequels they're pretty self centered and aren't very altruistic(Something they talk about in The Last Jedi). The closest I'd say is Yoda helping the Wookiees, but that is more war related and for the Republic with the Separatists invading the Wookiees. Yoda I imagine wouldn't want them enslaved but would the Jedi care in the prequel movies if a bunch of non-Sith related slavers came to conquer the Wookiees? In other material we see Jedi that do but we aren't shown this sort of behavior in the movies. The Jedi generally didn't want to even get involved in anything until they found out the Sith were behind it. They don't care about slavery but do care about defeating the Sith.

I think they could be good movies with more modern technology to deal with the really fake looking CG bits, with more editing of the script and someone with a focus on writing dialogue, and fully built sets and aids to help the actors actually get into a moment rather than them sitting in a blank room with an X painted on a wall where the head of an alien would be and "ACTION!" As well as someone who is going to work with the actors(George was really notorious during the prequels for not giving any acting directions and just telling everyone to wing it or that it didn't matter or not even say anything when asked questions other than "I don't know").

Offline pandorarose3

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #82 on: January 30, 2019, 01:06:39 AM »
I found they were very rough. It's hard to relate to Rey as she's pretty unstoppable, feels no fear, and has no real attachments to anyone. She also outclasses her teachers( Han and Luke, who both then die soon after) within minutes, showing no need to improve on anything really, even all the jedi texts (which she never even glanced at) which were then blown up by yoda, maybe as a nod off in an attempt to destroy what the old movies and characters represented.

Finn i found was much more relatable, and it was unfortunate to see him reduced to even more of a gag in the second movie when he showed major character development from being a coward wanting to run from the first order, to then face off against kylo ren in a 1 on 1 lightsaber duel in order to save his new friend. With the actions he took, you could see the fear and hesitation in his eyes and the incredible will it took to push forward and overcome them, something greater than fancy force powers will ever be.

Actually, I think you missed it, Rey took the texts with her they were in the drawer that Finn got the blanket from.  Remember what Yoda said "That Library contained nothing that the girl doesn't already have."

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2019, 06:10:26 AM »
One interesting thing about the prequels is that the bits without speaking are usually pretty good. When the actors aren't struggling with clunky dialogue that nobody could have made sound good, and can just express emotion. For example, there's a great bit at the climax of the first movie when the Jedi are seperated in the middle of the fight. Obi-Wan seethes with impatience, Darth Maul stalks up and down like a caged predator, never looking away from his prey, while Qui-Gon takes advantage of the moment of quiet to sit down and mediate.

Also, they gave us Backstroke of the West. :)
Agreed. The scene where Anakin is slowly coming to his decision to disobey the council while stuck in the council chamber is one of the tensest moments in the franchise and not a single line of dialogue.

I'd never seen Backstroke of the West, so thanks for that :D Not sure if you've already seen Auralnauts' Star Wars Parodies?

Offline Fierbali111

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2019, 02:24:55 AM »
Actually, I think you missed it, Rey took the texts with her they were in the drawer that Finn got the blanket from.  Remember what Yoda said "That Library contained nothing that the girl doesn't already have."

Yes it was already explained, though it was odd why yoda would blow up the place where they were kept, i mean what was the point?  also why did he answere luke in a way that could be easily misinterpreted(also for anyone that wasn't looking at the screen in the 2 second cut to the books).

Offline Tolvo

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2019, 08:03:04 AM »
As we see in Empire, Yoda loves to mess with Luke. He is quite a jokester. And it's supposed to make people think he really did destroy them until the reveal and you realize what Yoda meant.

Offline Dice

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Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2019, 10:26:33 AM »
I liked most of 8, but I fear 9 will be an overcorrection to "fix" issues that where not issues. Rey, regardless of what you think about her skills, being just a girl who happened to have the force was a nice touch. Now I hear that people involved in the project want to retcon that.

I know it's small, but it shows me why I will not follow the series as Disney carry it forward. The base is too regimented and static to allow something new to happen. The issues I hear about 8 are often that it broke the mold and people didn't like that. The issues about 7 was that it was just 4 all over again. Wtf? How does anyone win here.

The lore of the world is interesting, the concepts, the opportunity for building upon a complex world and reacting to the sins of the past. (Let's take children that have power away from their parents during the time of their life they need them the most, teach them to suppress emotions causing stunted emotional growth and then wonder how the hell this ever went wrong...) But I feel very little of the world can be explored to any satisfactory degree, because if you break the mold in any way...

That said, yea, the casino was a great show not tell about the seedy side the world has, but that needed to be done better. Also killing what felt like 99% of the rebels? Wow. That was drastic.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 10:29:57 AM by Dice »

Offline Tolvo

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #87 on: February 01, 2019, 10:42:54 AM »
I wonder if a part of the problem with the casino as well could be rooted in them wanting to show abused child workers, but not adults. If there were adults there that they could sneak out or get to rise up rather than just releasing the animals to rampage, I feel it would thematically fit more as a resistance helping the people. The adults could also then watch over the children after the breakout meaning they don't have to find a new safe place for the children. As well that could set it up so that the adult workers could help replenish the Resistance ranks in the future. And set up the message of "Hey the Resistance is freeing people everywhere and these people are going to help fight the First Order."

I also feel like while showing corporations and industries having people selling arms to both sides and how war profiteering is benefiting these people who don't care about who is in power, they should have also showed New Republic politicians there and how they're very willing to work with these people for money. To establish similar to Bloodlines how the First Order can get away with so much being that many in the New Republic are either sympathetic to the First Order or simply are greedy enough to support them.

Offline pandorarose3

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #88 on: February 03, 2019, 12:04:24 AM »
Yea I never thought of Rey as being a 'Mary Sue' character.  The power of the force was always within her, it just happened that as Kylo was searching her mind he flipped a switch causing them to become activated?  Then when she pushed back and read his mind she probably saw his own training.  As far as knowing how to fight with a lightsaber, had people missed the fact that she beat the asses out of two guys earlier with her staff?  She grew up having to defend herself so I don't find it hard to believe that she could defend herself and even defeat him.  But her being the only woman he would ever want ever?  I find that one hard to believe though.  I mean come on didn't he know any females when he was a child or even a teen?  That is where I kinda pull the bullshit card at.

Yep Yoda was like that for sure, and basically destroyed the tree because Luke was being a pussy about doing it, after all the end of 7 the start of 8 showed us Luke having just standing after yet another attempt at destroying the tree it was his way of saying 'Hey dumbass when you going to learn to do what you set out to do.'

I liked parts of 8, if they would have cut the Canto Bite scene in half, as that clocked in at almost 45 minutes of filler, then they could have kept in the scenes they put on the blue ray that they said they had to cut due to time.  I mean Rose and Finn spent more time running around looking at things like WOW rather than for the codebreaker, then the fater(can't remember the spelling) chase scene was WAY too long too I mean Rose was about 'Oh the ship is running out of fuel' but you guys had time to play the fuck around.

Also, time made NO fucking sense in 8.  In space, the resistance had only 24 hours of fuel, but yet Rey was on Act-oo for 3+ days????  That made absolutely no sense.

Then the whole Snoke created the bond I call BS on because if he did then they wouldn't be able to still connect after he died, that would have been gone I think he just took and knew about it and took credit for that shit to fuck with them.  Sorry, Snoke, you are not that smart.  Then there is the whole not telling the plan to any one thing on Holdo's part.  Made her a major bitch.

Don't get me started on the boomer scene.  I mean WTF?  Why were they so fucking close together?

But aside for that.  Anyone in the US, or where you can get the Super Bowl on TV, ready?  I can't wait for the first teaser trailer and the title to finally be revealed for episode IX.  It is the ONLY reason I am watching.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2019, 01:16:35 AM »
I never thought Rey was a Sue of some kind, because all her milestones were ones Luke hit in his first movie. But that also meant I didn't really care about her or her story, because she was simply walking in the footsteps of a more interesting character and hitting the same requisite story beats. Finn's story was far more interesting to me in Ep7, Rey was just...there.

Quote
I liked parts of 8, if they would have cut the Canto Bite scene in half, as that clocked in at almost 45 minutes of filler, then they could have kept in the scenes they put on the blue ray that they said they had to cut due to time.  I mean Rose and Finn spent more time running around looking at things like WOW rather than for the codebreaker, then the fater(can't remember the spelling) chase scene was WAY too long too I mean Rose was about 'Oh the ship is running out of fuel' but you guys had time to play the fuck around.

Also, time made NO fucking sense in 8.  In space, the resistance had only 24 hours of fuel, but yet Rey was on Act-oo for 3+ days????  That made absolutely no sense.

As I had mentioned in my first post, this was what hurt Ep8 for me more than anything else. It felt like three fragmentary scripts stapled together, except someone forgot all three were running on different internal timescales.

Quote
Don't get me started on the boomer scene.  I mean WTF?  Why were they so fucking close together?

Poor formation station-keeping was a far smaller flaw for the boomers compared to their very existence. B-Wings and Y-wings exist. Y-wings in particular were a staple of the Rebellion forces, particularly in the heavy bomber role. The whatever-they-were's were a new design that managed to be inferior to an existing design...unless it was a major plot point that the Resistance was so cash-strapped they had to buy out someone's failed prototype design instead of getting real starfighters, it's just bizarre.

Quote
But aside for that.  Anyone in the US, or where you can get the Super Bowl on TV, ready?  I can't wait for the first teaser trailer and the title to finally be revealed for episode IX.  It is the ONLY reason I am watching.

Star Wars Episode IX: R. Johnson Is A Talentless Hack, Signed JJ. Abrams

Offline RedRose

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2019, 04:02:16 AM »
Kylo is the obsessing type LOL. I can see him fixating on Rey like forever, since he didn't have someone already.

Canto Bight, agree.


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« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 07:57:56 AM by RedRose »

Offline TheDarkness1123

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2019, 12:58:58 PM »
I found they were very rough. It's hard to relate to Rey as she's pretty unstoppable, feels no fear, and has no real attachments to anyone. She also outclasses her teachers( Han and Luke, who both then die soon after) within minutes, showing no need to improve on anything really, even all the jedi texts (which she never even glanced at) which were then blown up by yoda, maybe as a nod off in an attempt to destroy what the old movies and characters represented.

Finn i found was much more relatable, and it was unfortunate to see him reduced to even more of a gag in the second movie when he showed major character development from being a coward wanting to run from the first order, to then face off against kylo ren in a 1 on 1 lightsaber duel in order to save his new friend. With the actions he took, you could see the fear and hesitation in his eyes and the incredible will it took to push forward and overcome them, something greater than fancy force powers will ever be.

I have to agree with everything Fierbali writes here. I found it also so sad how the aftermath of Hans death was handled with Leia hugging Rey after they come back all the while Chewy just walks past. Sure, ignore Hans 30 years or so long friend. Also in the Last Jedi Chewbaca doesn't comes immediatly with Rey to greet Luke and we get literally just one scene about Hans death. The rest of the Luke acts like Han wasn't a his best friend for years and the father of his nephew. For me Star Wars died with "The Last Jedi", at least until I hear that one of the upcoming movies is worth watching.

Love the rest of Star Wars. I think the first six movies were great and I also like the CGI series at least from what I've seen so far.

Offline Shale

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2019, 02:04:00 PM »
I don't get the Mary Sue argument. A character can be perfect — and still carry a story. The problem is likability. I don't much care for Rey, which to me that's the problem. People try to pin point why, usually pointing to the fact that she's perfect and can do anything... which is only half right.

There are so many characters out there that are considered perfect, yet people enjoy them. I really like Captain America, and it's honestly hard to find a flaw with him in any way, shape or form. Look at the first film of his, he has no growth as a character. Sure he was weak physically, but he certainly wasn't weak mentally or morally. Yes at one point he figures being a show act is helping the troops and almost gives up trying to get into the fight, but then gets coaxed back into that desire. Aside from that, he's morally perfect and has no character arc. As with the rest of the films.

The same with Gladiator. Maximus has no character arc, and he's perfect as a character. Morally good, fighting for what's right, strong, smart, strategic, and he's super bad-ass.

So why does it work for them and not for Rey? Is it because she's female and we have different societal expectations when a character is female vs male? I'm not sure about that, but I do know that she doesn't resonate with me. She was a bit likeable in the first film, especially because she had this endearing doe-eyed attitude towards Han Solo and Luke Skywalker as legends... but in the second film that went away for obvious reasons.

I think because when you're a perfect character, you need what's called a linear story-arc. This is when the character doesn't grow, but instead is oppressed somehow, and makes those around them grow. Gladiator, for example, has Maximus being the moral center, but he becomes a slave, and everyone around him is only about gold and power, or survival—but he changes their minds and makes them join him to fight and do good. Captain America is a bit the same, especially as the films progress, and people join his ranks because they believe what he's doing is right.

Rey did change Luke's mind... but it was done in a way that it seemed more like his story rather than hers. Same with the first film, she influenced Han Solo I believe (it's been a while), but they attempted to give her a story arc (wanting to stay at Jakku) which just made it muddled.

Also for her, perhaps the problem was she learnt too easily. I don't mind that she used a mind trick despite not being taught it (I'm sure she's heard stories), which would show she's strong with the force. Yet it was when she fought Kylo Ren, someone who destroyed Luke's temple and is an apprentice... and when she just learnt on her own how to fight in the second movie by fighting a rock... that's when it was too much for me. Yes she may have fought with a stick before, but it's stretching it a lot.

In the end it's not that she's a perfect character, but it's that she's not oppressed as a character, and things come too easily to her with little struggle. She can be a perfect character, but she needs a big struggle, something we can relate with, and several characters she would change around her.

Or just give her a proper story arc...

Offline Tolvo

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2019, 02:14:27 PM »


I mean, regarding her fighting Ren, Finn did stand up to the severely wounded Ren with a lightsaber, and Finn managed to cut Ren's lightsaber arm deeply before having his spine cut. So someone who lost to another Stormtrooper in melee who is less skilled and experienced than Rey in melee combat(Though he is more trained) was able to even further injure Ren before he fought Rey. Luke's Order also keep in mind Ren was the best of them, as far as we know the others might not even have had any combat training. They may have been even younger than Ren. They weren't even old school Jedi Knights and the person who would be the most trained of them all is Ren since he's related to Luke.

I think Rey's arcs have been working fine, with her having her motivations change. Originally feeling her ancestry is important then learning it isn't. She goes from worshiping the past to try to work on creating a better future. She gets knocked out a lot, fails plenty of fights, Han Solo gets the drop on her.

Offline pandorarose3

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2019, 05:56:03 PM »
Well, I think Rey's character was dropped down to just a toy for Kylo to mess with mentally by Ryan.

I think we can only hope JJ can make things better.  I just can't wait for the teaser trailer today and finally a reveal for the title.  The only reason to watch the Super Bowl for me.

GGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAA 4 hours of my life GONE with nothing to show for it.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 09:37:30 PM by pandorarose3 »

Offline Azuresun

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #95 on: February 07, 2019, 04:48:57 AM »
I don't get the Mary Sue argument. A character can be perfect — and still carry a story. The problem is likability. I don't much care for Rey, which to me that's the problem. People try to pin point why, usually pointing to the fact that she's perfect and can do anything... which is only half right.

For me, Rey's a strong character and that's cool. It's certainly neat to see a woman getting to take centre stage in a main Star Wars movie. But....."strong" by itself doesn't make for much of a character, so she just felt to me like "Star Wars Protagonist Person"--like the first Star Wars OC that everyone (including myself, aged 17) creates.

Offline Shale

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2019, 07:35:59 AM »
For me, Rey's a strong character and that's cool. It's certainly neat to see a woman getting to take centre stage in a main Star Wars movie. But....."strong" by itself doesn't make for much of a character, so she just felt to me like "Star Wars Protagonist Person"--like the first Star Wars OC that everyone (including myself, aged 17) creates.

True, I think the main issue with her is she's so one-dimensional. She shows compassion for her friends and for BB-8 by not selling him, but other than that, and being strong (and determined—to drive the plot), it's hard to describe her.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #97 on: April 03, 2019, 12:00:17 AM »
Well the great issue is Hyperspace Ramming which is now Canon, devastating one small capital class ship to destroy the far bigger one and many of the supporting ships of the enemy had and now the poor writers have to figure out how to solve this why not just ram big ships or FTL weapons into each other. You have the Starkiller Base II ram into it five or six big ships manned by droids or has auto-piloted computers. Done. Seriously its a thing and there aren't a lot of fixes one use lots of small ships so there is no easy target but will the First Order give up its big ships, or you can develop any ramming defenses but that might not work too well or well the bad guys can go there ramming a big ship into a planet at a base could be better than parking over firing on the enemy so it now goes both ways.

I think it was a cool move but the implications are not going to influence warfare forever any ship with an FTL drive little fighters to big ship now have an ultimate weapon if they are willing to suicide themselves or risk a minimal crew to do what must be done. I suspect the safety features need to be pulled but other than that your a weapon a fighter on a full ram could take out a Star Destroyer on a good critical hyperspace hit. Kind of a big can of worms to open up if you ask me and one that you can't just put back in the can.

Offline Lomesa

Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #98 on: April 12, 2019, 02:43:44 PM »


Teaser trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

The Skywalker bloodline redeems itself? Count me in. So killing Palpatine is the thing that Vader started that Kylo is going to finish?

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Star Wars sequels
« Reply #99 on: April 13, 2019, 08:03:25 PM »
I'm fairly certain that Palpatine is only coming back as a ghost to influence someone, hopefully Rey.

Meaning that Ben is probably going to be called in to stop her, hence redeeming him and therefore being the Skywalker that is rising? Though in that case it would make more sense to name it 'The Rise of Solo.'

But that's the only theory I can think of. Not that many Skywalkers left.