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Author Topic: Classic Werewolves OOC  (Read 12015 times)

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Offline Remiel

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #150 on: June 08, 2016, 02:47:36 PM »
As an idea that I'm rolling around in my head, how do people feel about a larger game (like... 30 players) with three teams? :o

I've always wanted to do something like this.  I wanted to run a Game of Thrones-based Mafia Game over in Valerian's Vault, but abandoned the project when I realized it wouldn't fly.

Offline ThatRPGuyTopic starter

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #151 on: June 08, 2016, 03:15:20 PM »
Run it here!!

I've done three team games before, I think I did one here with a vampire team. They do work pretty well....

You just gave me an idea for something. Something that would almost require two GMs.... I'm going to PM you tonight, but what if we ran a game that took place over two threads players could migrate between under certain conditions...

Offline Verasaille

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #152 on: June 08, 2016, 03:19:36 PM »
I am game, but how do you work three teams? Are they all working against each other? Explain please.

Offline Saffron

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #153 on: June 08, 2016, 03:29:04 PM »
That was my idea. There would be all sorts of UTTER NONSENSE to make it a Saffron trolledrun game though. I'm thinking quite a bit of game forced alliances. Romances and blood. ;) Muahahaha. 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 03:31:10 PM by Saffron »

Offline Aiden

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #154 on: June 08, 2016, 03:33:11 PM »
Needs some smut and it is destined for infamy!

Offline yugi006

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #155 on: June 08, 2016, 03:39:34 PM »
That was my idea. There would be all sorts of UTTER NONSENSE to make it a Saffron trolledrun game though. I'm thinking quite a bit of game forced alliances. Romances and blood. ;) Muahahaha.

That will be great.

Offline Verasaille

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #156 on: June 08, 2016, 03:49:39 PM »
Sounds more and more like a GOT clone! Go for it!!

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #157 on: June 08, 2016, 04:39:14 PM »
I only skimmed through this, but GoT and team game was mentioned, so an idea popped in my head. What if every player was assigned one of three houses and a role (leader, spy, assassin, etc), but everyone goes into the game with no clue who their teammates are? You'd have to lie, cheat, and kill your way to eliminate the opposing players.

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #158 on: June 08, 2016, 05:00:09 PM »
I only skimmed through this, but GoT and team game was mentioned, so an idea popped in my head. What if every player was assigned one of three houses and a role (leader, spy, assassin, etc), but everyone goes into the game with no clue who their teammates are? You'd have to lie, cheat, and kill your way to eliminate the opposing players.

+100000!!!!!!

Offline Saffron

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #159 on: June 08, 2016, 05:02:33 PM »
I briefly considered that idea, with events that would co-relate party members to help clue them in on their teammates. But it's a lot of work and it moves out of complex Mafia game and into short-term group game territory for me.

Offline James Moriarty

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #160 on: June 08, 2016, 05:28:54 PM »
A boy would try this game.

Offline Derwaysh

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #161 on: June 08, 2016, 05:47:39 PM »
So much potential! King Julien's always willing for a three-group Kingsmoot as well.

For what is red may never dye. 8-)

Offline Verasaille

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #162 on: June 08, 2016, 05:55:27 PM »
I like that idea a lot!! Even as a group game it would be fun, but I still think it would work as a Mafia game. Secret assigned roles and the possibilities of alliances and betrayal...oh my!!!

Offline Ceralilly

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #163 on: June 09, 2016, 12:48:01 AM »
Ive been sick today guys...sorry for the inactivity.

Offline yugi006

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #164 on: June 09, 2016, 01:12:36 AM »
Hope you are feeling better soon Ceralily.

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #165 on: June 09, 2016, 01:22:13 AM »
Feel better Cera!!!! <3

Offline Intimate Ink

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #166 on: June 09, 2016, 07:52:44 PM »
I might be in the minority here, but I 'd find it more... comfortable to move meta-game discussions to this, clearly labeled OOC, board.  If someone tells me that they aren't going to be voting or not around much due to a 'real life' reason, I accept it without question, and I similarly expect people not to manipulate that respect of boundaries to move forward in a game like this.  In short:  I really am much happier seeing meta-discussion in a clearly OOC location where it isn't going to be mistaken as 'evidence'.   I think the clear label also causes people to think twice before putting up something that is an in-game manipulation up here:  let me be clear, I don't think anyone has done that.  I just like my lines drawn and clear.

I actually spent some time writing a rather lengthy commentary on both why and why not examining inactive players can be a 'good' thing the other day.  It ended up muddled and no longer timely, but I am starting to think this will be a lingering issue this game.  The short summary of it:  There is a balance that needs to be walked between accusing inactive players and active ones.  Rather than drawing explicit lines like I did in my earlier draft, just a few points to consider:

1)  We want everyone to feel welcome here, regardless of personality type, experience, comfort level, etc.
2)  Mafia's roots are founded in the idea of an informed minority vs an uninformed majority.  Consequently, whether someone is on 'team good' or 'team bad' they are going to be making, supporting, and denying theories that are based on imperfect information.  In my experience, lynching is not generally something that is done once a theory has been 'proven'; it is actually part of testing that theory.  While that might sound harsh, the oft-unspoken understanding is that we're actually all friends here and very grateful for eachother's company.  People are missed when they are removed from the game, we hope you stay in contact on this board, and we hope to see you in another game very soon.
3) It is actually the 'duty' of the bad guys to make incorrect arguments and accusations to get the town to turn on itself; the good guys make incorrect arguments and accusations, too, because often times being wrong several times over is the only way you finally land on what the right answer is.  It's part of the game, and I generally think implicit in signing up is agreeing that you are comfortable with you and your friends being falsely (and sometimes correctly,) accused.
4) It is a common tactic for 'team bad' to be relatively quiet in these games.  For better or worse, quiet players tend to largely be indistinguishable from each other.  It's a useful strategy when you want to fly under the radar because if an innocent villager even points at you they can attract shade to themselves:  The question becomes 'why are you pointing to x, they haven't even said anything!'  Obviously, if you are a wolf, if you can make it difficult for people to accuse you and still look innocent themselves, you are doing something very, very right for your team.
5) It is also a common tendency of people who are quiet, thoughtful, or inexperienced to hang back. It goes against the site's policies, and I would hazard to say the policies of most (if not everyone,) here to alienate anyone for experience or personality style.  There needs to be very sharp lines drawn; on the obvious level: no character assassinations of other players, anywhere.  The less obvious levels are more difficult to address because of the nature of this game.

My point?  We need a bit of balance in this.  I feel I am watching it weeble wobble back and forth to one side and the other, so feel a responsibility to simply say my peace.


Offline Ceralilly

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #167 on: June 09, 2016, 08:13:53 PM »
Hope you are feeling better soon Ceralily.
Feel better Cera!!!! <3

Thank you both very much!
I might be in the minority here, but I 'd find it more... comfortable to move meta-game discussions to this, clearly labeled OOC, board.  If someone tells me that they aren't going to be voting or not around much due to a 'real life' reason, I accept it without question, and I similarly expect people not to manipulate that respect of boundaries to move forward in a game like this.  In short:  I really am much happier seeing meta-discussion in a clearly OOC location where it isn't going to be mistaken as 'evidence'.   I think the clear label also causes people to think twice before putting up something that is an in-game manipulation up here:  let me be clear, I don't think anyone has done that.  I just like my lines drawn and clear.

I actually spent some time writing a rather lengthy commentary on both why and why not examining inactive players can be a 'good' thing the other day.  It ended up muddled and no longer timely, but I am starting to think this will be a lingering issue this game.  The short summary of it:  There is a balance that needs to be walked between accusing inactive players and active ones.  Rather than drawing explicit lines like I did in my earlier draft, just a few points to consider:

1)  We want everyone to feel welcome here, regardless of personality type, experience, comfort level, etc.
2)  Mafia's roots are founded in the idea of an informed minority vs an uninformed majority.  Consequently, whether someone is on 'team good' or 'team bad' they are going to be making, supporting, and denying theories that are based on imperfect information.  In my experience, lynching is not generally something that is done once a theory has been 'proven'; it is actually part of testing that theory.  While that might sound harsh, the oft-unspoken understanding is that we're actually all friends here and very grateful for eachother's company.  People are missed when they are removed from the game, we hope you stay in contact on this board, and we hope to see you in another game very soon.
3) It is actually the 'duty' of the bad guys to make incorrect arguments and accusations to get the town to turn on itself; the good guys make incorrect arguments and accusations, too, because often times being wrong several times over is the only way you finally land on what the right answer is.  It's part of the game, and I generally think implicit in signing up is agreeing that you are comfortable with you and your friends being falsely (and sometimes correctly,) accused.
4) It is a common tactic for 'team bad' to be relatively quiet in these games.  For better or worse, quiet players tend to largely be indistinguishable from each other.  It's a useful strategy when you want to fly under the radar because if an innocent villager even points at you they can attract shade to themselves:  The question becomes 'why are you pointing to x, they haven't even said anything!'  Obviously, if you are a wolf, if you can make it difficult for people to accuse you and still look innocent themselves, you are doing something very, very right for your team.
5) It is also a common tendency of people who are quiet, thoughtful, or inexperienced to hang back. It goes against the site's policies, and I would hazard to say the policies of most (if not everyone,) here to alienate anyone for experience or personality style.  There needs to be very sharp lines drawn; on the obvious level: no character assassinations of other players, anywhere.  The less obvious levels are more difficult to address because of the nature of this game.

My point?  We need a bit of balance in this.  I feel I am watching it weeble wobble back and forth to one side and the other, so feel a responsibility to simply say my peace.



Thank you. This is well thought out and very very poignant.

Offline Saffron

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #168 on: June 09, 2016, 08:28:15 PM »
Using metagame reasons like activity encourages players to begin monitoring other players, which is another no no against the rules. For the sake of argument, Emmykat has not been online since June 6. We have no right to claim her guilty because she has a busy real life. As long as she votes within the time frame of the round, she has satisfied the requirements of the game. Find something suspiciousto base your vote on, make it up - it's a game, pretend your character doesn't like the way her character smells, who cares. ::) Activity, experience... reasons that aren't "this is what your game actions/inactions have led me to feel/conclude" should probably be excluded.

Offline Intimate Ink

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #169 on: June 09, 2016, 08:33:15 PM »
Quote from: ThatRPGuy
Also, please try and remember that many users of E come from not just all over the US, but the world as a whole, and the minimum activity level I ask of players is one post every 48-72 hours. Not everyone will have the exact same level of activity, and while it's acceptable to politely question them about it, a lighter posting rate is hardly irrefutable evidence of a player's guilt. Similarly, a polite response or explanation will carry more weight than an aggressive one.

I would politely ask Guy for clarification on this, because I'm currently hearing contrary information.

Offline Saffron

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #170 on: June 09, 2016, 08:38:19 PM »
Okay, "as long as she posts every so often" for the quotation of the rules sake. I'm not trying to be a rules lawyer, and I'm not interested in going down that road. I'm just watching the accusations made on what appears to me to be entirely non-game reasonings and I'm pointing out the relevant rule to that.

Offline Seranova

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #171 on: June 09, 2016, 09:42:12 PM »
I've already stated the issues with the line of thinking you're pursuing, Saffron. Yes, life happens. But as I said;

1) People joined this game with full knowledge that they would be asked to maintain activity throughout. Even with busy work schedules and life, which happens, it's generally not too difficult to at least pop on for a moment and make a post. Some of our busy players have even stated something along the lines of, "Hey, I'm only on for a moment, pretty busy, will catch up later and contribute more." That's not too much to ask. If some players are lost in the game or uninterested anymore, then voting them out is helping everyone concerned.

2) A rather common (and easy) bad guy tactic in many of these games is to simply fly under the radar. If players forget you're even a part of the game, you're much less likely to be called out, and thus less likely to be lynched. This is not meta-gaming. This is strategy. We as players cannot allow inactivity to slide and brush it off as "They could be busy." This is a very risky move.

This is not meta-gaming. This is looking at available information in this current game and basing a decision on it. If people can't be around right now, that's fine. it happens. But realistically, it hinders the game. There's a reasonable amount of participation that can be requested of players. This is a common issue with forum-based mafia-style games. You need participation in order to play. If someone is busy, or real life came up, no favors are being done to them or the remaining players by giving them a free pass in the game.

If Joe is not playing, then it no longer matters if he's a villager or wolf. He's not playing. Why would we not vote Joe out? Joe's a great guy, and everyone likes him, but we need him to play or it defeats the point of having him as a player.

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #172 on: June 09, 2016, 09:50:15 PM »
Honestly, here is my view point:

If we are sitting around the table and Player X has been silent for three rounds, going with the flow and voting, but flying under the radar... I'm calling that person out. In this setting, making a single post in the game thread is the same thing.

We all understand life happens, no one is questioning that. But there is also tactic in staying quiet. Checking when someone is online, when they are active, is actually frowned upon. So... if nothing is posted in the OOC about being away or limited... how is it metagaming to question someone when they aren't saying a word?

Offline Verasaille

Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #173 on: June 10, 2016, 12:11:14 AM »
Okay, here is the thing. To me, if you sign up for a game like this and you know it is involving ongoing discussions that are important to the game play, you owe it to your fellow players to at least make an effort to post once a day or at least every other day. If you have real life issues and you cannot post that often, then at least say something like: I have a job where I work twelve hour shifts with no internet access and I can only post once every two or three days. in the OOC.

I do not say we should pick on anyone if they are not posting. If they cannot, then they cannot. And we should know that, if they cannot, so we don't suspect them and start voting them off.

Whether it is tactics or apathy, silent players should at least let us know they are still here and considering their options. That is what the OOC is for.

Offline Ceralilly

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Re: Classic Werewolves OOC
« Reply #174 on: June 10, 2016, 12:32:57 AM »
Okay, here is the thing. To me, if you sign up for a game like this and you know it is involving ongoing discussions that are important to the game play, you owe it to your fellow players to at least make an effort to post once a day or at least every other day. If you have real life issues and you cannot post that often, then at least say something like: I have a job where I work twelve hour shifts with no internet access and I can only post once every two or three days. in the OOC.

I do not say we should pick on anyone if they are not posting. If they cannot, then they cannot. And we should know that, if they cannot, so we don't suspect them and start voting them off.

Whether it is tactics or apathy, silent players should at least let us know they are still here and considering their options. That is what the OOC is for.

THIS ALSO GOES TO EVERYONE ELSE PUSHING THIS IDEAL...I haven't the energy to go back and quote everyone, but Vera by no means am I pointing fingers directly AT YOU, you were just the last to post before me LOL. <3

We are all entitled to our opinions, but since this does not seem to mesh with the guidelines set forth not only by the GM, but Elliquiy in general...it is not how the game is run. I am sure everyone respects your opinion, but frankly, it is also up to those who sign up for these types of games to keep the rules and guidelines above their own desires, and therefore NOT pressure or discriminate those less active based on their status or inability to post in what you may deem a timely manner. As a libra I see both sides, your frustration and your point, as well as those who may very well be put off from the game, due to those feelings that you have put forth with (what seems to feel like) little regard for their own feelings. I hope you can see my point as well. Just because you want this to occur, does not mean it is required, nor does it mean it is grounds for you or anyone to use it against any other player.

It just seems a little unsympathetic, and Elliquiy really seems,(once again this is my opinion) to be more intolerant of the idea you have stated as opposed to people not posting in a timely manner.

I say this with respect and care for your feelings.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 12:35:27 AM by Ceralilly »