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Author Topic: In your honest opinion, who do you think has the best chance of becoming POTUS?  (Read 26345 times)

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Online mannik

I would say that it depends entirely on who the democrats choose as their final nominee. I think Donald Drumpf is most likely going to be the Republican's choice....but he'll most likely loose if he's put up against Sanders. But will win if put up against Hillary. (based on my own experience. There seems to be FAR more Trump supporters than Hillary, and more Sanders supporters than Trump)

But, in all honesty I truly believe the whole thing to be rigged anyway. It doesn't really matter who we the people vote for, they'll put who they want in office and we can't really say anything about it.

The president is nothing but a scape goat anyway. Basically the elections are just picking who the country is going to blame all its problems on for the next four years as the system in place continues its corrupt and self serving ways.

Offline CuriousEyes

Hillary Clinton leads the popular vote over Sanders by about 3 million votes. She also has about 2 million more votes than Trump - who in fairness has run against more candidates splitting votes (if you believe Kasich/Rubio votes would have been his) but has also been in a primary where 3 million more folks have voted. Sanders and Trump have louder voters, but it wouldn't seem they have more of them.

I think Clinton beats Trump in a popular vote. She'll be helped by pulling moderate voters from the right (folks who would have voted Kasich) as well as Bernie supporters who can overcome their distaste.

Of course in the US the popular vote isn't always important - what's more valuable is where you win. As usual you already know which way most states will swing, and it'll come down to a handful of choices in swing states.

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Polls show Hillary winning by a VERY small margin over Trump if they go head to head (while Bernie beats him by double digits), but I honestly think Trump will win because more and more Bernie supporters are put off by Hillary every day. A few days ago, she flat out said she won't do anything else to try to win their votes and bring them to her. When you think about the huge number of independent voters (biggest voting demographic in the country) who favor Bernie and haven't gotten to participate in the primaries, and the way she talks about those who favor Sanders and then add to the fact that she's stated point blank she won't do anything to try to win those who support Sanders over, I think she's going to have an extremely close race on her hands in the general and Trump will probably take it, if only because she's had a hard enough time with Bernie and he's playing nice. Trump won't play nice. He'll pull every skeleton she has out of her closet. I'd say she could do the same to him, but the truth is, Trump has proven several times over he doesn't care about the bad things that can be said about him. He'll swagger his way through it and I think enough people will buy it.

And lets not forget the fact that there's still a chance of an FBI indictment for Hillary. Unlikely, but the chance is still there. If that happens, unless the DNC pushes Sanders hard, Trump is a sure win.

Offline CuriousEyes

It looks like most polls are showing Clinton witha near double digit margin as well.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

Average 8.5 margin. Admittedly its much better for Sanders vs Trump but thats still a pretty comfortable win in American politics if it holds. By comparison its double the margin Obama beat Romney by - a contest that few in hindsight feel was "close."

Especially if Sanders/supporters can be mollified. Really my biggest concern would be a contested Republican convention that somehow landed on Kasich.

Online mannik

Hillary Clinton leads the popular vote over Sanders by about 3 million votes. She also has about 2 million more votes than Trump - who in fairness has run against more candidates splitting votes (if you believe Kasich/Rubio votes would have been his) but has also been in a primary where 3 million more folks have voted. Sanders and Trump have louder voters, but it wouldn't seem they have more of them.

I think Clinton beats Trump in a popular vote. She'll be helped by pulling moderate voters from the right (folks who would have voted Kasich) as well as Bernie supporters who can overcome their distaste.

Of course in the US the popular vote isn't always important - what's more valuable is where you win. As usual you already know which way most states will swing, and it'll come down to a handful of choices in swing states.

And that kind of proves my point about the system not really caring what people think. Social media is FULL of sanders supporters, and they aren't really hard to find if you walk around. I have yet to talk to a single Hillary supporter in real life, and have seen a remarkable lack of support online. It seems the only people who actually support Hillary is the democratic officials. And sadly, they are the only one's who's opinions matter in such things.

Personally, I'm not voting. I'll go to the polls and vote on issues like legalizing marijuana in my state...but as far as the presidency is concerned, it's a lose/lose no matter who is chosen. So...I'm throwing that vote away and writing in 'nobody'.

Because nobody will keep election promises.
nobody tells the truth.
nobody will end the constant wars.
nobody will uphold the constitution.
nobody will fix the corruption in Washington.
nobody cares.

Online TheGlyphstone

And that kind of proves my point about the system not really caring what people think. Social media is FULL of sanders supporters, and they aren't really hard to find if you walk around. I have yet to talk to a single Hillary supporter in real life, and have seen a remarkable lack of support online. It seems the only people who actually support Hillary is the democratic officials. And sadly, they are the only one's who's opinions matter in such things.

Personally, I'm not voting. I'll go to the polls and vote on issues like legalizing marijuana in my state...but as far as the presidency is concerned, it's a lose/lose no matter who is chosen. So...I'm throwing that vote away and writing in 'nobody'.

Because nobody will keep election promises.
nobody tells the truth.
nobody will end the constant wars.
nobody will uphold the constitution.
nobody will fix the corruption in Washington.
nobody cares.

No one is forcing you to vote, but if you don't vote, your opinion on the validity of the process is irrelevant.

Online mannik

No one is forcing you to vote, but if you don't vote, your opinion on the validity of the process is irrelevant.

Who you tryin to kid? Even if I do vote my opinion on the validity of the process is still irrelevant.

Online TheGlyphstone

Let's be more blunt then - by choosing not to vote, you forfeit your right to complain about the results because you have made yourself part of the problem yet you refuse to accept responsibility for such. There is no conspiracy of disenfranchisement except the one that you have constructed beneath your tinfoil hat, there is only the passive apathy of people like you and the 'establishment' counts on that apathy.

Online ReijiTabibito

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There is no conspiracy of disenfranchisement except the one that you have constructed beneath your tinfoil hat, there is only the passive apathy of people like you and the 'establishment' counts on that apathy.

Were such a conspiracy to exist, its' goal would not be disenfranchisement.  The goal would be - to coin a term - idiotification.  They want people voting, but they want people not thinking about why or who when it comes to voting.  The ideal person in the aim of the conspiracy would be someone who votes because: A - their family/community/ethnic group/insert other here did it that way, so that's good enough for them; B - someone who hates what the other party stands for so much that they say 'I'm voting for the other guy;' or C - simple inertia.  They voted this way the last six elections, and it's too much a hassle to have to change their mind.

A populace who doesn't think for themselves, who just goes along blindly with whatever they're told is good - authoritarian control.  That could easily explain why the schools are going down the tubes but neither party seems really invested in improving them.

Online mannik

I have a right to complain about whatever the hell I want. I'm an american citizen. Besides, the topic clearly says 'In your opinion...' therefore, I'm well within my rights to state what my opinion is here whether or not you agree with it.

And no, the problem isn't that people don't vote. The problem is that their votes don't mean anything when they do. The problem is that government unlawfully gives itself the power and authority to use violence and force against its own citizens. That we never actually have a decent choice of leadership. That both parties are under the control of super pacs and special interest groups and working toward the same agendas (which is not in OUR best interest at all). The problem is that the constitution is nothing more than a worthless piece of paper in the eyes of the government. The problem is the never ending and unconstitutional wars we are always involving ourselves in. The problem is our corrupt fiat money system and the federal reserve (which doesn't even have legal authority to exist or control the nation's monetary policy under the constitution...that's the Senate's job and responsibility which they just sign away every year, which again they don't have the legal right to actually do.) is driving the economy towards collapse....

My choosing not to take part in the charade in no way contributes to the 'problem'. Doesn't do a damn thing to fix any of it, I admit. However, I have no freaking clue how to fix the problem...well I do, but it won't happen. The problems won't be fixed until we the people stand up with a unified voice and scream 'enough of this crap!'....but the two party system does its job of dividing the population very nicely so we can never truly agree on any thing.

Meanwhile, each president, be they republican or democrat, takes more and more of our rights and liberties. For security, for welfare, for whatever they want to claim...but none of them ever give any of it back. The country is headed toward totalitarian rule, and will soon go the way of the Roman empire.

You want a leader to tell you how to live your life....I want the freedom to lead myself, as promised to me by the constitution. I am an American, and a patriot for I DO question the government and their unjust laws. I DO refuse to blindly follow the status quo. That is the duty of EVERY American... Its just so sad that the vast majority have forgotten that and so easily allow themselves to be lulled into complacency by the promise of 'security' which I can assure you will eventually be taken away as well.

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, "Anyone who trades their freedoms for security deserves neither, and shall lose both."

Pretending that the system is actually working, or that it holds your interests at heart does far more to further the problem than refusing to take part in it.

-edit- also, I find it humorous that you would talk to me so dismissively about 'conspiracies' when your avatar is a symbol of the Illuminati, the biggest conspirators on the planet. And if you want, I can link a video of a supreme court hearing in which a man hired by the government testifies to creating code for electronic voting machines for the express purpose of rigging elections in a virtually undetectable manner.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 01:28:26 AM by mannik »

Online TheGlyphstone



My choosing not to take part in the charade in no way contributes to the 'problem'. Doesn't do a damn thing to fix any of it, I admit. However, I have no freaking clue how to fix the problem...well I do, but it won't happen. The problems won't be fixed until we the people stand up with a unified voice and scream 'enough of this crap!'....but the two party system does its job of dividing the population very nicely so we can never truly agree on any thing.

Then live up to your own words and do that. Make your voice heard. Participate and find other people who want that change to happen. Join a grass-roots movement, or found one. Don't sit back and whine about how it'll never change while not even trying to change it. Cause you can either change the system from within the system, or outside the system, and frankly I don't see you being willing to advocate armed revolution. You'd rather sit back, complain, and wait for other people to do the work. That's what invalidates your opinion - you talk the talk about "we the people", but what you actually want is "you the people". You've traded the freedom of action for the security of comfortably knowing that it isn't your fault that the system has gotten this bad, because "they" are just blocking your efforts. It's a comfortable self-delusion, I'll admit, but not a productive one.

Were such a conspiracy to exist, its' goal would not be disenfranchisement.  The goal would be - to coin a term - idiotification.  They want people voting, but they want people not thinking about why or who when it comes to voting.  The ideal person in the aim of the conspiracy would be someone who votes because: A - their family/community/ethnic group/insert other here did it that way, so that's good enough for them; B - someone who hates what the other party stands for so much that they say 'I'm voting for the other guy;' or C - simple inertia.  They voted this way the last six elections, and it's too much a hassle to have to change their mind.

A populace who doesn't think for themselves, who just goes along blindly with whatever they're told is good - authoritarian control.  That could easily explain why the schools are going down the tubes but neither party seems really invested in improving them.

Your forgot Option D - people so convinced that they cannot affect the outcome that they simply stop trying, thus providing equally strong support by simple virtue of not opposing it. And all four of those options make it that much more important for those with the awareness of the problem to take action by educating ourselves and voting for the candidates we want. Not throwing a temper tantrum and storming away.

Online mannik

Then live up to your own words and do that. Make your voice heard. Participate and find other people who want that change to happen. Join a grass-roots movement, or found one. Don't sit back and whine about how it'll never change while not even trying to change it. Cause you can either change the system from within the system, or outside the system, and frankly I don't see you being willing to advocate armed revolution. You'd rather sit back, complain, and wait for other people to do the work. That's what invalidates your opinion - you talk the talk about "we the people", but what you actually want is "you the people". You've traded the freedom of action for the security of comfortably knowing that it isn't your fault that the system has gotten this bad, because "they" are just blocking your efforts. It's a comfortable self-delusion, I'll admit, but not a productive one.

Your forgot Option D - people so convinced that they cannot affect the outcome that they simply stop trying, thus providing equally strong support by simple virtue of not opposing it. And all four of those options make it that much more important for those with the awareness of the problem to take action by educating ourselves and voting for the candidates we want. Not throwing a temper tantrum and storming away.

Ok...let me ask you this. Do you actually WANT any of the candidates they parade in front of you? Or do you simply vote against the one you don't want the most?

Only once have I seen someone I thought was truly what this country needed. And what happened? The media black balled him and did everything in its power to silence and discredit the movement he was starting....he wasn't allowed to speak during debates. Most networks wouldn't even air his speeches or interview him, instead forcing the other candidates down our throats like he wasn't even an option. Even his own party did everything they could to make sure he got as little support as possible, filling the one day that the national convention was attended by the press with pointless rock concerts so by the time he was able to speak, no cameras were watching and the nation couldn't hear what he had to say...

And for the record (I'll probably wind up on some list for saying this) But if armed revolution is truly the only thing that will fix the system...then I DO support it, and will fight and most likely die in that coming war. I mean...seriously. They have drones that can take out entire complexes from miles away and I only have a dinky little .22 pistol... Naturally I would reserve that as a last resort only to be used when every other option has been tried and failed, but if that is TRULY what it will take and is the only way...then yes. I will join my fellow citizens in standing up to the tyranny of the government and be slaughtered for what I believe in. (At least I don't have any delusions on how that will go.)

What about you?

Online ReijiTabibito

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Your forgot Option D - people so convinced that they cannot affect the outcome that they simply stop trying, thus providing equally strong support by simple virtue of not opposing it. And all four of those options make it that much more important for those with the awareness of the problem to take action by educating ourselves and voting for the candidates we want. Not throwing a temper tantrum and storming away.

I don't really think D fits into the mold for what the conspiracy would want.  The goal would be to convince people they actually want to vote for the candidate being presented for the election.  Otherwise, in a theoretical future, you could have someone elected with only, say, 33% of the voting population reporting, and the vast majority of people would be able to technically say that they did not vote for such a thing.  If the goal is eternal self-perpetuation, then the ideal would be to get everyone onboard.  Apathy only lasts for so long, and eventually it boils over - into revolution?  Perhaps.

Does Option D further the conspiracy's intended goal?  Yes, but it lacks long-term viability when you compare it to a voting populace that will vote but cares little about anything other than the act itself.  Seeing voting as a civic duty, but not everything else that comes along with it.

Part of the problem is that there are so few candidates that people actually want.  Oppositional politics - being on one side because you can't stand the guys on the other - has been the norm for at least as long as I've been a voter (Bush W era).  It's not enough to have someone to vote with, your street voter wants someone to vote for.  That's why Sanders and Trump have been a major upset this election, because people feel like they're someone who breaks the usual routine with candidates.  They're not anti-Cruz or anti-Clinton, they're pro-Trump or pro-Sanders.

It also doesn't help that - conspiracy or no - the various political establishment groups (like the D/RNC) have this tendency to put forward people who will look after their interests rather than the interests of the voting populace.

Now, I'm not begrudging political organizations for trying to stay afloat - just like I don't begrudge private industry trying to make a buck.  What I mind is when that becomes the only goal: not staying in power because they want to help American, but staying in power because they want to stay there.

Offline Far eyes

Quote
Illuminati, the biggest conspirators on the planet

I hope that you are joking with that, because otherwise the lizard people are coming for you.

Online mannik

I hope that you are joking with that, because otherwise the lizard people are coming for you.

Man, who do you think started the Illuminati? And I said ON the planet...the lizard people are hiding in their base on the dark side of the moon :P

-edit- either way, I'm probably going to stop posting to this thread now since it seems to have been derailed and that wasn't even my intention.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 02:16:11 AM by mannik »

Offline gaggedLouise

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Ted Cruz is bowing out after a heavy defeat in Indiana, despite having spent much more money in the state than Trump - and in a state that should have been his kind of home ground. Effectively that means Trump has landed the nomination, unless the GOP throws him out at the convention.

Watching Cruz's dignified speech I felt he sounded like he was going to continue fighting despite the steep odds, but finally he admitted that there was no viable path forward. His admission surprised both the in-house audience and me, actually.

Online Oniya

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I would have expected Kasich to drop before Cruz... O_O

Online TheGlyphstone

I think people kinda forget he exists, poor guy.

Offline Merah

Hillary and Trump, yuck. Well, holding out hope for Warren next time around (whether it be 4 or 8 years from now). One of these days we'll get it right.

Online TheGlyphstone

Well, back to my preferred third-party candidate:

Cthullhu 2016: Why Vote For A Lesser Evil

Online Oniya

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And Kasich is out as well.

This is going to get ugly.

Offline Far eyes

There is a bad deep dark part of me that just wants to go..   
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
... if trump wins, the down side is the rest of the world is going to have to deal with what ever idiocy splashes over

Online Lustful Bride

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There is a bad deep dark part of me that just wants to go..   
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
... if trump wins, the down side is the rest of the world is going to have to deal with what ever idiocy splashes over


The US before the Dark ages of Trump.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Hillary and Trump, yuck. Well, holding out hope for Warren next time around (whether it be 4 or 8 years from now). One of these days we'll get it right.


The Two worst possible candidates in my opinion. One is an Idiot the other is a corrupt liar who possibly sold out her country.

Online TheGlyphstone


The US before the Dark ages of Trump.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide


The Two worst possible candidates in my opinion. One is an Idiot the other is a corrupt liar who possibly sold out her country.

Assuming you're talking about something she did as Secretary of State, and not that absolutely stupid email 'scandal', what particular incident are you referring to?

Online Lustful Bride

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Assuming you're talking about something she did as Secretary of State, and not that absolutely stupid email 'scandal', what particular incident are you referring to?

I was in between juggling Benghazi and the emails, though that was more than her probably.

I don't trust her. But then again ive grown uber paranoid about almost all politicians.

Edit:Meh, what do I know? I have regressed back down to the angsty whiny teenager phase in my mentality.  :P
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 09:21:51 PM by Lustful Bride »