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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 125144 times)

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Offline Xunzar

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2625 on: March 11, 2018, 12:20:27 PM »
Speaking of the Lore: I don't like a lot of the changes they made. The problem is that I generally feel like retcon is a sign that you couldn't come up with a new plan going forwards (see my complaints about Blizzard and WoW at a later time).

I like the Necrons insofar as they're now a bit batty and dangerously so; not a fan of making the C'tan not the scary monsters in the shadows that they were. Remember when the Deceiver was out and about, killing assassins?

Not a fan of de-fungusing the Orks. I mean, it wasn't that it was a great concept, but it was a thing. For the most part, though, I'm neutral. Not a lot of damage was done here.

Tyranids/Genestealer Cult: Not amused at all. Genestealers were the scary enemy within, not some creatures fleeing their creator. They got the whole cult thing right, at least, but they changed the order completely. It used to be that they got *more* monstrous with generations, not less. So yeah. There's that.

Eldar: No real objections here.

Dark Eldar: My complaint isn't lore (I kinda like the lore for Asrdubael Vect). I just miss my Webway gate allowing Raiders to come screaming out of them and disgorging squads of Incubi into the midst of the enemy. But again, not a lore issue.

Space Marines . . . dunno what to say. The lore was about right and they haven't done that much to it. Or, rather, I can't remember offhand what they did. I'd like Ragnar Blackmane to get more love, but that's because I loved the books (especially Wolfblade).

Astra Militarum: Lies! These are the Imperial Guard! Otherwise, not a huge amount of damage done here. (Rules changes are another matter)

Techpriests/Skitarii: Eh. They're new and so not a huge amount of changes can really be pointed to here.

Tau: Uh . . . what happened here? Tau used to have Warp capabilities in their craft. I know I was told otherwise by a GWS employee, but I have the actual codex. They just didn't register in the Warp at all so they couldn't Navigate and were limited to short jumps. As a side note, this pretty much means that they used to be safe from Chaos corruption because they just weren't there.

Chaos: And now we hit the one that really pisses me off. Fuck you the 13th Black Crusade is mounting up. Fuck. You. I read the after-action reports of the actual event when it happened. Players actually fought it! We know how it ended! Abbadon didn't wreck the Impirium, true, but he made off with Black Stone Fortresses which it was presumed he was going to use to try and control the Dragon under Mars. (Speaking of which, that had better still be there, pretending to be the Machine god).

Offline TheLaughingOne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2626 on: March 11, 2018, 12:35:03 PM »
... I don remember tau using warp drives... Warp travel isnt just using a drive, but having a gellar field to keep from getting eaten up by daemons, and a Navigator (specially breed mutants with a warp eye to see into the warp and pilot by it). I remember something of them using lesser drive or something to skim the surface of the warp, but never taking the plunge in, and it was during one campaign they went full into the warp without proper safety precautions and... realized just how fucking insane the rest of the universe is.

And they do have a warp signature, but its so dim that its near impossible to notice. if they had NO signature at all that would make them soulless like the Pariah, a negative warp entity that blocks psyker powers and has less emotions then a necron..

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2627 on: March 11, 2018, 12:38:01 PM »
Tau had the Nicassar client race, who were psychic and served them as substitute Navigators. Their ships were said to 'skim' the warp, dipping into the shallows instead of swimming deep like Imperial ships do.

Then in 6th edition they now had a non-Warp FTL technology.

Then in 7th edition their starship drive was very fast, but not FTL, which essentially destroyed any sense of logic with them having a multiplanet empire.

8th edition, who knows.

Offline wander

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2628 on: March 11, 2018, 01:00:26 PM »
A lot of Necron lore was shifted by The Spiritual Wardian Liege.

As for Orks, when did they get retconned to not be fungoid?

As for Chaos and the 13th Crusade it has now essentially finished going into 8th edition, the main thrust of it being done in the Gathering Storm event at the end of 7th edition. Now is the time of the Great Rift.

Agreed with TLO on the Tau, they do have a presence in the warp though it is tiny. The Tau do have a rather small spot in the galaxy with their expansions (they're currently on the 5th one now) having them expand outward from there.
It seems now though the Tau are going to be a bit more wildly spread out via the use of the 'Startide Nexus'.

Offline Xunzar

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2629 on: March 11, 2018, 01:01:54 PM »
... I don remember tau using warp drives... Warp travel isnt just using a drive, but having a gellar field to keep from getting eaten up by daemons, and a Navigator (specially breed mutants with a warp eye to see into the warp and pilot by it). I remember something of them using lesser drive or something to skim the surface of the warp, but never taking the plunge in, and it was during one campaign they went full into the warp without proper safety precautions and... realized just how fucking insane the rest of the universe is.

And they do have a warp signature, but its so dim that its near impossible to notice. if they had NO signature at all that would make them soulless like the Pariah, a negative warp entity that blocks psyker powers and has less emotions then a necron..

You're mostly correct. I misremembered. They don't have any psychic powers, but they do have a barely-noticable warp presence. However, without psychic powers, that means no possession.

However, as to the client race? I can't speak for 6th, but in the Tau Codex (ISBN: 1-84154-09806) on page 5 it notes that "After the successful navigation of a warp rift, the Ethereals and Air caste worked to refine the technique of traveling through warp space, but, without the specialized mutation of the Navigator gene, their colony ships could only make short 'hops' into warp space, skimming the edges of the immaterial. With the tightly packed nature of the Tau empire, this did not prove to be a problem and protected them from many of the inherent ranges of warp travel."

That is to say: they did actually have warp drives, however, they couldn't Navigate and so were limited by that. Their protection was not a Geller field, but instead their near lack of presence in the Warp.

Offline TheLaughingOne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2630 on: March 11, 2018, 01:46:24 PM »
Yep, i did some research and found out about their Ether Drives, which skim them along on currents, or with that client species help.

And they can be possessed by daemons, but its hard as them trying to spot non-sentiant animals in the warp they are so dim, its possible but gives no real advantage or trade off for what it takes. They are Blunts, not Pariah, so they do have Some warp presense, just more like being an ant in a herd of elephants.

And Problem is, while they might not need a gellar field to protect from daemons as they cant notice them unless Seriously searching....

You still can Absolutely NOT survive in the warp without it. Its pure unfilted raw chaos, time doesnt exist in the normal way, nor does matter or anything else, Anything, short of Pariah or some materials that actively hinder warp energies, exposed to the warp is twisted and mutated beyond recognition, living, dead, inanimate, or so forth, so while daemons might not notice them, the very fabric of the Immaterium is anathemical to beings from the Materium.

Offline Xunzar

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2631 on: March 11, 2018, 01:53:25 PM »
The thing is that we know that they've navigated the warp. So either they have Geller fields or some other way of preventing themselves from being injured by the harmful matter there.

And as to the fungoid, it was relegated to a crazy theory.

Offline TheLaughingOne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2632 on: March 11, 2018, 02:26:26 PM »
Found it! Fall of Medusa V. back in 2006 and 4th edition, large campaign for players, end result was in system tau had scientific research stations searching for info on the warp and a way to fully penetrate it to travel as fast as the other species, the biggest problem they had with their expansions as even with Ether drives or such, they just skimmed the top. Difference being the layer they went on was like the surface of the ocean, the imperium, orks, chaos, and so forth are swimming right along under Cthulhu's butthole..

And the Tau were successful in getting their info! ... Which was gathered by means of unshielded ships and those that got hit by the warp storms. It was so fucked up the earth caste figured it was impossible to fully quantify any data on it, ethereals suppressed any info they could (not quite to Imperium levels..) about the subject, and they gave it up as being to unpredictable and dangerous. Which... Is kinda fair. Its possible to enter Warp travel for a trip that should take half an hour if you went sublight... And emerge 30000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years in the future. Or, emerge a few weeks (or millenia) before you even left. Or were born. Or before the Great Crusade started. Or the Eldar fell. Its possible that just by looking at the rift one tears to enter the warp to go insane because its just hte sight of pure chaos pouring into your brain destroying it, and several times psykers, ship crew, or others have been possessed by looking at it.

This of course varies from writer to writer in GW and Black Library, cause cant have a master Canon on exactly what can do what... No, that would be just silly...

And the funny thing... Warp travel was suppose to be one of the SAFER ways of traveling for Mankind, even before the emperor rose up and all. At the time it was relatively calm as the eye of terror hadnt quite opened, but it was still a place of untapped potential and change and deadly as hell. They had means of traveling MUCH faster and more predictably... But tearing holes in reality and then zipping along through hell was the safer option. They dont really say what those options are...
But..

Offline Cold Heritage

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2633 on: March 11, 2018, 02:36:41 PM »
I think that the Warp and by extension Chaos would be a lot less horrifying if there was a master canon that pinned down the Warp and Chaos like a butterfly, myself. I don't think it would stop missteps like the works of C.S. Goto or Matt Ward or prevent stuff like Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau, either.

Offline TheLaughingOne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2634 on: March 11, 2018, 02:43:07 PM »
Well, thing like the warp i can see the inconsistencies, its literally pure chaos.
A master canon prevents things like, "the mentors used to be a chapter that would send out marines to train with other chapters to learn their tactics and foster brotherhood with them and lend assistance where they can" from turning into "They horde all knowledge and are hostile to all chapters that might try and learn from them"

or other such stupid things. It doesnt need to be completely set in stone in every detail, but "hey. These are some Core things that should not change because "you think it would be cool." and for that reason only.

Offline wander

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2635 on: March 11, 2018, 03:16:04 PM »
Just saying, I like Sherlock Obi-Wan. And that playa was in the very original 1st edition Rogue Trader book as the ur-example of an Inquisitor.

I think the mistep was Geedubs taking 40k too seriously around the mid 90s to fairly recently. Now they embrace the grimdank memes a bit more and I find things just more inviting because of that.

And playing 'Awaken' from the Jojo OST when I deepstrike in my squad of three Custodes Wardens to fuck up a tank is just too fucking perfect.  8-)

Offline TheLaughingOne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2636 on: March 11, 2018, 03:51:48 PM »
And playing 'Awaken' from the Jojo OST when I deepstrike in my squad of three Custodes Wardens to fuck up a tank is just too fucking perfect.  8-)


Offline wander

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2637 on: March 12, 2018, 03:09:30 AM »
I step it up... 'Avalon' is the theme of my Shield-Captain on the Auric Aquilas jetbike relic with Superior Creation and Victor of the Blood Games. He also has a salvo launcher when he isn't ramming his Interceptor Lance into HQs and messin' 'em right up.  8-)

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Offline CopperLily

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2638 on: March 12, 2018, 07:19:16 PM »
Just saying, I like Sherlock Obi-Wan. And that playa was in the very original 1st edition Rogue Trader book as the ur-example of an Inquisitor.

I think the mistep was Geedubs taking 40k too seriously around the mid 90s to fairly recently. Now they embrace the grimdank memes a bit more and I find things just more inviting because of that.

In contrast, I hated it, despite being around for that time. The "humor" in RT wasn't all that funny at the time, and it hasn't gotten funnier thanks to decades of repetition.

Offline TheLaughingOne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2639 on: March 16, 2018, 03:39:02 PM »
Getting my forgebane preorders in tomorrow from LGS. Would have today, but gw wont let them do preorders til tomorrow, and they had massive system failure on store site.

... and realize i just fucked up by not making a machine cult/tech (support) priest joke.

Shit.

Online Idej

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2640 on: March 16, 2018, 05:23:26 PM »
Has anyone wondered if the Machine Spirit is Siri or Alexa? Lol

Offline wander

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2641 on: March 16, 2018, 05:55:28 PM »
You mean the Omnissiah, ja?

Machine Spirits are basically LAIs in most technology, like the autopilots in a Land Raider. There's more than one.

And to fully destroy the joke, the Mechanicus think the Emperor is the Omnissiah. *nods*

Online HairyHeretic

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Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2643 on: March 22, 2018, 03:02:30 PM »

Offline wander

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2644 on: March 22, 2018, 03:45:01 PM »
It's a point of contention, though I hope they keep the boobplate on at least some of them. It's such a classic look for them, I'd be a bit sad if Geedubs and wiped it from the whole line. I'd be okay if they kept it for a specific squad type though, sort of like how elites look different to troops sort of thing.

Online HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2645 on: March 25, 2018, 06:11:19 AM »


Conversions I happened across from the new box set. Those would make great Chaos / Dark Mechanicus units.

https://www.instagram.com/tea_wild_owl/

If you want to see more

Offline TheLaughingOne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2646 on: March 25, 2018, 07:45:57 AM »
Damn, that is some fine use of necron bits!

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2647 on: March 25, 2018, 08:01:48 AM »
Aren't they just

http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.ie/2013/09/it-came-from-forums-dark-mechanicus.html

I may have posted this link before, but this is more fantastic conversions, I think from a different source. I'd like to try doing a helbrute like in pic 11. Not sure what the legs came from though, could be a few different things, but it looks way better than the regular helbrute.

Offline wander

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Online Idej

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2649 on: March 25, 2018, 09:00:14 PM »