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Author Topic: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?  (Read 4197 times)

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Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« on: January 26, 2014, 11:05:36 AM »
I just thought I'd see if anyone else is tired of encountering Toxic forums and hate because of your stance on an issue. I've been encountering a lot of bitter vitriol lately on the internet, with a lot of knee jerk reactions.
Especially on the topic of religion, which makes me kind of sad when I encounter people who refuse to even explore or think on the subject beyond proclaiming "religion is the opiate of the masses" or "it just holds man back". As if even thinking on it is somehow a threat to "science."

I think there's a lot of interesting topics discussing and thinking on this, and duzons of other topics too. but people are far too quick to resort to toxic language and old propaganda for any of the subjects to get off the ground.

So bring forth thy stories of stupid or bitter flamewars.

I want to see who else will join me in saying I'm not going to spread toxic hate, stereotypes, or flame war on the internet anymore.

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2014, 11:15:22 AM »
A bit of clearing things up.
I had the idea of doing an RP set in the early roman empire setting, but the bitterness and vitrol of even the topic of Pagan cults and early Christians existing side by side and not killing each other (as it often was) coming up, was explosive.

It made me sad that it touched off a flamewar in which people just bashed the later roman church...

Offline alextaylor

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 12:13:02 PM »
Yeah, I just walk away from those. A lot of people have very solid opinions. There's often more pride than fact on those opinions too, so the more you prove them wrong, the louder they yell.

Religion is the worst topic. I judge the quality of a forum based on how able it is to discuss religion without blowing up all over the place. So far, these forums are pretty good. But I do find some thin skinned people here jumping at the mention of evolution, even when not accused either way.

Politics are also another thing. Economy and social mobility seems to get on a lot of people's nerves. Rights, especially regarding minorities, race, feminism. It's impossible to politely say to someone "You're where you are because you're privileged", especially someone they've never met on some internet forums. Often this gets a response of "No, I am where I am because I work hard, unlike your kind."

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2014, 12:38:11 PM »
Just avoid those topics and choose to write with people who share similar views as you.

It's just like dating.  I'm a more traditional sort of guy and my best relationships have been with more traditional women.  I was once on a date with this lady who was very passionate about feminism, and she took insult with my views.  I just respectfully acknowledged our differences.  There was no point for either of us to convince each other.

You'll always find people on forums who share your views, just takes some time.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2014, 12:42:27 PM »
Avoidance is the best way to handle it.  I've learned that even in places where I expect objectivity that is in very short supply.  Since people are usually incapable of discussing things and take every comment, even some that appear to agree with them, as an argument even reading their posts can be a waste of time.

Avoidance for the win!

Offline Oniya

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2014, 12:44:44 PM »
Also, there's a reason that we have this particular board set aside on Elliquiy.  We also have higher expectations of our members in this section, as the stickies here indicate. 

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2014, 12:52:41 PM »
I think the classic phrase 'Haters be hating' sums it up. Some folks will always take offense at something. I knew one guy who hated EVERYTHING in a game setting that didn't mesh with his 'view' of the game. (Typically any game setting, anything beyond '1st edition' whatever)

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2014, 01:15:23 PM »
I think the classic phrase 'Haters be hating' sums it up. Some folks will always take offense at something. I knew one guy who hated EVERYTHING in a game setting that didn't mesh with his 'view' of the game. (Typically any game setting, anything beyond '1st edition' whatever)
Really? that seems so... counterintuitive...

Offline Lux12

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2014, 01:47:41 PM »

Especially on the topic of religion, which makes me kind of sad when I encounter people who refuse to even explore or think on the subject beyond proclaiming "religion is the opiate of the masses" or "it just holds man back". As if even thinking on it is somehow a threat to "science."

Oh this really grates my nerves. It gets really annoying when people seem to think that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are the only religions in the world.  I mean there are hundreds if not thousands of religious paths out there but people seem to fixate on these three and act like they're the source of all evil when things such as money, nationalism, wounded pride, resources, and ethnic strife have caused  many more disputes. Never mind that their reading tends to be just as literal as the evangelists they claim to dislike. They do not bother to examine the philosophy. There are all manners of angles they do not consider.  I mean I  can think of people who even believe their religious views are improved or confirmed by science. I can think of plenty of times I'll be reading and I'll think to myself "Hey, that sounds like a mundane reflection of x principle in my religion." I do not mean to sound as if I am just ragging on anybody or venting at them, but its something that grates on my nerves.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me 100% but it would be nice just to see people not be jerks about it. I'm not exactly standing on the proverbial street corner shouting at people about damnation. It doesn't seem to be much of a problem here but elsewhere.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2014, 03:59:55 PM »
Really? that seems so... counterintuitive...

I have had a bit of experience in it. You get a lot of it in some areas. I admit it confuses the hell out of me.

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2014, 05:17:32 PM »
I have had a bit of experience in it. You get a lot of it in some areas. I admit it confuses the hell out of me.
which is part of what annoys me about it.

Offline Sabby

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2014, 12:32:01 PM »
I agree that people can be overly aggressive when the topic of religion comes up. I'm actually guilty of that myself, but I've really improved on my self control over the last year. I've been extremely tentative in returning to the politics section of E, but I'm doing okay so far, so I'd like to ask you a question.

What is it exactly that frustrates you? Is it purely the instant and aggressive reactions you get? Or are there other elements mixed into it? Do you feel as if your beliefs are not being respected, and that they should be?

Offline Kythia

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2014, 12:43:12 PM »
You are doing way better, Sabby.  Grats.

Obviously I can't speak for Lux, but the aspect of it that annoys me the most is the sheer lack of understanding of religious topics shown by those who aggressively attack.  For example, in a discussion on a forum I used to be part of someone was criticising the section in John (19:33-36 should you care) about the prophecy of Jesus' bones not being broken, saying that referred to the Passover lamb.  Yeah, that's kinda the point.

In essence, imagine it was a discussion about cars.  It seems a lot of the time people who are not mechanics, even amateur ones, are screaming that the problem is there isn't enough coal in the engine and you are stupid, STUPID DO YOU HEAR ME, for not realising that.

Offline Sabby

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2014, 12:53:20 PM »
And the confusion on my side of the discussion is the insistence that someone know every word of a holy book in order to reject it as unimportant or even horrible. However, that doesn't mean someone can speak as if they knew about it when they don't. That's just being an idiot. So yes, it does frustrate me as well when people act like that, though probably for very different reasons. To me, it feels like they are trying too hard to legitimize their frustration with something, and in turn make themselves look like fools, which ends up hurting the reputation of everyone who shares their frustrations.

Correct, I don't know the Bible as well as you Kythia, and that is why I don't try and challenge your knowledge of it. I probably have in the past, and looked quite foolish for it. However, my knowledge of it, while not as deep as yours, is enough to justify my dislike of it.

I think a very common confusion in these discussions is mistaking what context the 'aggressors' are discussing. I tend to talk about Religion as a sociological/culture phenomena. Naturally, my opinions there would not help me when discussing the Bible as a literary work, so when the other side is under the impression that I'm speaking in that context, or asserts that I must speak in that context, it can be very confusing for both sides.

Offline Kythia

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2014, 12:59:21 PM »
None of that was aimed at you specifically, Sabby (or, for that matter, any single person specifically) and sorry if I gave the impression it was.

Offline Giantmutantcrab

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2014, 01:15:12 PM »
I think the problem is wanting to be "right".

We sadly live in a world of extremes; yes or no, black or white, left or right.  Those who chose a colored view of the world are considered weak, or frail, or dangerous.  People who want more choices then two extremes are cowards, who can't get off the "fence".

But see...  Most people ARE like that.  Most people are able to say that they want this from political party A, that from political party B, and some stuff from political parties C, D and E.  Some folks want to combine religion and science.  I'm...  Not sure how they'll be able to handle that, but good luck!  At least these religious folks aren't trying to kill me because I don't believe in what they're saying.  Which is a big step up from most of human civilization.

We're influenced since birth to fit into specific molds.  And when we can to see what's out of that mold, like THAT mold, over there...  Well we're suddenly a risk.  A wild thinker.  A loose cannon.

...Really?

For centuries, people have been typecast.  Because of the color of their skin, gender, age, wealth or lack thereof, etc.  And even today, when we can get pretty pictures from my cellphone with a signal that was bounced off a satellite in SPACE...  Some people look at me with a strange look when I walk around with my beautiful partner.  Who happens to be a damn sexy shade of hot cocoa brown.  And I happen to be as white as milk.  Or a sheet of printing paper, take your pick.

The internet brings anonymity.  Meaning you can act like an asshole, and there's a fair chance you won't get a consequence because of that.  These people forgot what it was to be a child.  When I was a kid and acted badly, I was punished.  And I learned not to act badly, because:
1- Aforementioned punishment, and
2- I don't like hurting people.

Religion, like politics, are usually vials of recently-shaken nitroglycerin.  Just...  waiting to explode.  I've had conversations about these things with friends in my real life.  And we've never called each other rude names because of it.  We call each other rude names on a daily basis, but that's a totally different story.  :)

But the internetz...  They allow everyone with a keyboard and a connection to express their views.  Even when they are imbeciles.

And it only takes one rotten apple to start and spread its disgusting, acidic juices all over the other apples, and thus ruining the whole basket.

[/rant]

Now if you'll excuse me, I suddenly want an apple.  And wash it thoroughly first.  :)

Offline Sabby

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2014, 01:18:54 PM »
But the internetz...  They allow everyone with a keyboard and a connection to express their views.  Even when they are imbeciles.

And it only takes one rotten apple to start and spread its disgusting, acidic juices all over the other apples, and thus ruining the whole basket.

Oh boy could I list some examples xD but I'd rather not make the thread mutate and divide.

Offline Lux12

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2014, 06:07:30 PM »
You are doing way better, Sabby.  Grats.

Obviously I can't speak for Lux, but the aspect of it that annoys me the most is the sheer lack of understanding of religious topics shown by those who aggressively attack.  For example, in a discussion on a forum I used to be part of someone was criticising the section in John (19:33-36 should you care) about the prophecy of Jesus' bones not being broken, saying that referred to the Passover lamb.  Yeah, that's kinda the point.

In essence, imagine it was a discussion about cars.  It seems a lot of the time people who are not mechanics, even amateur ones, are screaming that the problem is there isn't enough coal in the engine and you are stupid, STUPID DO YOU HEAR ME, for not realising that.
My sentiments exactly. That's what a ton of these attacks and arguments sound like and to be frank it's irritating. I am a religious man, an ordained minister, but not a Christian. However I have encountered such things before when discussing a variety of spiritual topics elsewhere.  It often seems that they have less understanding of such things than they think.

Offline Sabby

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2014, 06:44:55 PM »
My sentiments exactly. That's what a ton of these attacks and arguments sound like and to be frank it's irritating. I am a religious man, an ordained minister, but not a Christian. However I have encountered such things before when discussing a variety of spiritual topics elsewhere.  It often seems that they have less understanding of such things than they think.

See, what I try and do is ask that person to define what Spiritual means, and no matter how civil I am about, it almost always ends in claims of persecution. Can you at least understand how that may frustrate people of my mind set? It's no excuse for vitriolic behavior, of course.

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2014, 06:56:05 PM »
See, what I try and do is ask that person to define what Spiritual means, and no matter how civil I am about, it almost always ends in claims of persecution. Can you at least understand how that may frustrate people of my mind set? It's no excuse for vitriolic behavior, of course.

Studied in spiritual topics, and from that study having experienced what is essentially a spiritual "Eureka Moment" like a scientist or math teacher gets when all the math falls into place.

Some are obviously more learned than others in that though

Offline Sabby

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2014, 07:16:59 PM »
I don't understand.

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2014, 09:16:14 PM »
I don't understand.

It's a bit like describing "red" to someone colorblind, or trying to explain the concepts of "Buddhism" to a Classical Athenian or a Viking. You kind of lack a frame of reference, here so I hope I you are a gamer, these might help.

skipping over the lore, mechanics of religion, because that's easy to understand



because of super-mega-ultra backlash they made another



Spirituality is a combination of faith, personal understanding, and attempts to understand the world from a faith based perspective.

Offline Sabby

Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2014, 09:23:34 PM »
And this is what annoys so many people. Why do you get to give a nebulous, non specific answer that really means nothing?

You haven't defined Spiritual in any practical sense, and until you do, I am unable to discuss it with you.

Does that make sense?

Edit: I also find your explanation as to why I cannot grasp your definition to be extremely condescending.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 09:37:54 PM by Sabby »

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2014, 09:52:21 PM »
And this is what annoys so many people. Why do you get to give a nebulous, non specific answer that really means nothing?

You haven't defined Spiritual in any practical sense, and until you do, I am unable to discuss it with you.

Does that make sense?

Edit: I also find your explanation as to why I cannot grasp your definition to be extremely condescending.

I'm sorry if it sounded condescending sabby. I think that's half the problem, this stuff is so heavy that men far more educated and articulate than either of us have a hard time dealing with it.

You don't have a frame of reference.
Using myself as an example, when people like my friend's son start talking about code (because he knows computer coding languages) I have no frame of reference and feel a bit stupid. I know about data packets, I know a kernel is a piece of code, but when he shows me a wall of text and starts talking in jargon my brain goes *Tllllpth* because I've got no frame of reference from my own life to compare.

I wonder if that's part of why there are so many flame wars...

For the record I'm only in my mid 20's... and this kid's 13... I just got highspeed last week, he grew up with it. Though I can recite lovecraft in a game, and he's never read it... so it can really spook him.

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Re: Do you ever get sick of the toxic stuff on forums?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2014, 09:58:28 PM »
Having Followed the discussion a bit, its gone in circles for a while, can you just please define "What is Spirituality" in simple terms, cause i sure as hell cant figure it out >.<''
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 10:00:07 PM by Andy »