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Author Topic: Roguelikes  (Read 5220 times)

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Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #75 on: May 05, 2014, 12:28:11 PM »
I knew there was a topic where someone had mentioned FTL. Figured I'd post here rather than make a separate topic.

I bought that game recently...and I don't know if I love it a lot or utterly loathe it. On the one hand, there's a bit of strategizing you can do, but on the other hand, damn....the luck factor is just impossible. If luck isn't on your side, you're not winning at FTL, no matter how good you are at strategy. T_T
Don't tell FTL fans that. They don't believe in luck. :\

I agree though. There are things that I like about it, things I want to like, but the luck... good God... the luck.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #76 on: May 05, 2014, 12:39:12 PM »
Ye gods, how can they not believe in luck when it's just...everywhere in that game? O_o

But yeah, there's some great elements to the game. I really like being able to custom my ship, and the lone bit of effective strategy I've been able to do has always exclusively involved not just how I upgrade, but when.

Gotta say I developed an appreciation for Long Range Sensors, because they've been helping me avoid being attacked as often.

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #77 on: May 07, 2014, 10:20:08 PM »
*nods*

I played that on Easy and it's pretty do-able.  But on Normal, you can get really burned with a bad encounter.  I had one game where I was doing well with that energy cruiser, using ions to shut down everything.  Getting scrap, having fun, then bam.  I get boarded by like 5 invaders in a non-nebula jump in Sector 1.  Game over.  Maybe there is a trick to countering the luck.  But I haven't found it yet!   ;D

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #78 on: May 08, 2014, 10:39:36 AM »
*nods*

I played that on Easy and it's pretty do-able.  But on Normal, you can get really burned with a bad encounter.  I had one game where I was doing well with that energy cruiser, using ions to shut down everything.  Getting scrap, having fun, then bam.  I get boarded by like 5 invaders in a non-nebula jump in Sector 1.  Game over.  Maybe there is a trick to countering the luck.  But I haven't found it yet!   ;D
I also hate that the final boss is one of those you have to get to before you can even think about beating it. I.E. the game doesn't take into account that everything in the game should have led up to it, it's just counter to everything the game's established up to that point.

Also the developers don't really find it being basically Luck Based: The Game bad. :\

Big fans of slot machines I guess.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2014, 02:57:19 PM »
I thought about starting a new roguelikes topic, but this thread does seem to serve well enough even though it hasn't been active in a bit!

I found a what appears to be a neat little roguelike:
http://dowhilecompiling.blogspot.ca/p/drakefire-chasm.html

Drakefire chasm--you play as a wyrmling dragon (you can pick your color, which determines some damage types and some movement stuff) and you get a starting breath weapon (you can pick the shape of it, too, which is interesting) in a dungeon seeking to grow to your fullest potential. I have only just started trying it out, and it does use ACSII graphics, but it was a neat looking sort of find. No idea if it's balanced or not for a roguelike yet--I do know that it's entirely possible to start the game in a bad situation surrounded by enemies, but I have also had some reasonable luck, if I'm very careful were I choose to move, getting out of the way and surviving. I couldn't remember if anyone had mentioned this particular game before. If anyone else is playing it, I would love to know your opinions of it (good or bad!).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 02:58:57 PM by Blythe »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2014, 03:08:15 PM »
I love the domain name.

Offline Luna

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2014, 03:41:17 PM »
Oooh... other ascii roguelikes have taught me to fear the almighty capital D... now there is a game that lets me play as one! I'll have to check this out, thank you!

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2014, 03:59:24 PM »
Oooh... other ascii roguelikes have taught me to fear the almighty capital D... now there is a game that lets me play as one! I'll have to check this out, thank you!

I hope that you like it--if you get time to play, please let me know what you think!

Update: I've run through a few lives on Drakefire Chasm. Initial thoughts!
* When choosing your breath weapon, think about what kind of combatant you are. If you have difficulty with managing movement, pick Ball, especially if you think you'll get swarmed a lot. Line is okay. Cone hasn't really worked out for me so far--maybe I'm not using it correctly. Be warned about Ball, though, the damage output is low to compensate for the large area.
* Reds get extra HP starting out and make for a good starting dragon if you are new to Drakefire Chasm. Plus they can move through lava, which can be very valuable.
* Be very careful what you eat, because this will influence your statistics. You can only eat so much per level of the Chasm. When you get to 100% Satiation and move to the next level, you level up and get to select a new dragon ability based on what your current stats are.
* My best playthrough so far I got to become a Mature Adult Black Dragon. I had a Ball breath weapon. "Bite" is a great ability, because if you can slay an enemy with it, you get extra HP back, and my dragon did well with this.
* I hate gnomes. >_<
* I seem to die rather quickly, quicker than I normally do in most roguelikes. Not sure if this is because I haven't really grasped the game yet or if it's harder on the early levels.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 04:00:38 PM by Blythe »

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #83 on: December 09, 2014, 08:26:14 PM »
I gave this a try and it is a lot of fun.  Thanks, Blythe!  My best run so far is a young adult red.  I've found fighting in corridors to work well--assuming you can find any.  :D  Because of that, I've gone with the line breath attack and it's been alright so far.



Edit:  found a guide of sorts that gives you a breakdown of the development tree.  It looks like an important aspect of the game is the rock-paper-scissors issue:  i.e., using the right attack against the right enemy type.



Edit again:  okay, red's line attack works really well.  It was one-shotting lots of adventurers and all the normal critters.  Having multiple abilities is also definitely a plus since you can rotate them while waiting out their cooldowns.  I managed to get to the final fight (I think) and got slaughtered.  I think I need to up my Stamina more if I plan to use inferno...  also, those orbs are definitely handy in that last fight!

Best run so far!

Red Great Wyrm
Was killed by a druid after 3705 turns.
Scored 58782 points.
Strength: 23, Stamina: 16, Will: 17.
Abilities gained:
 Bite, Line Breath, Deep Breath, Devour,
 Frightful Presence, Gem-Encrusted Hide, Hardened Scales, Indomitable,
 Inferno, Magic Resistance, Rake, Trample.
5 orbs were found.
142 enemies were killed:
  3 barbarians
 18 cave bears
  7 deathknights
 10 druids
 24 earth gnomes
 24 giant rats
  7 hunters
  8 mages
  4 monks
  5 paladins
  3 priests
  5 rogues
  8 shamans
  5 warlocks
 11 warriors


« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 01:08:46 AM by Cycle »

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2014, 12:48:35 PM »
Okay, I am making much better progress with this game and have been getting to the final fight with some regularity (and keep losing!).  What has been working for me so far are the following:

1.  Using my abilities frequently.  When I see any single enemy in line of sight, I just shoot it with line breath immediately.  Breath and Bite recharge fast--like maybe 3 moves?--so you can fire, retreat a bit, and fire again.  They don't run out of "ammo" so there is really no need to conserve.  Line breath also kills things fast so you don't need to heal as much.  I think of it as a sniper rifle.

2.  Waiting until after my abilities recharge before exploring.  You don't want to get caught without your guns loaded!

3.  Not eating until I am at least 33% hurt.  Crawl taught me to eat chunks as soon as I can.  That is not true in Drakefire.  In this game, you want to eat chunks as late as you can--ideally after you've cleared the floor and can choose what stat you want.

4.  On named NPC levels, I try to create a pile of corpses in good fighting areas like a corner or corridor.  I'd lure a rat or bear or something easy to a good spot like that and kill it but not eat it.  Repeat until I have two or three.  Then when I run into a named NPC, I retreat and try to lure them to that spot, and from there I blast or bite.  NPCs can do mongo damage so having several corpses nearby means I can heal quickly in the middle of a major tussle.

5.  I've been having good luck picking up Hardened Scales, MR, and Frightful Presence (in that order).  All of those seem to boost my defenses quite a bit, esp against those ranged casters.

6.  Pillar dancing works well against the melee NPCs.  That is, when I see one, I duck around a set of walls and just move away until my breath or bite attach recharges, and then go in for the kill.  It works way better than just standing there and duking it out while you wait for the recharge.

7.  Wall hugging is very important when exploring bigger rooms--i.e., I explore a big room by going around the outside, never going into the middle until I see it is clear.  It cuts down the number of enemies that can see you at one time.

8.  Trample is good against solo named NPCs.  Lure them into a corridor and charge.  It stuns them and then you can go for the bite!  And its range is actually 1 more than what the highlight shows.  If the enemy is one step beyond the end of the highlight, they WILL get hit.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2014, 01:12:58 PM »
I've been playing Rogue Legacy myself. :3

It's a platformer roguelike. :3

Pretty good. Definitely going to look into the dragon game since you can devour people. *Om-nom*

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2014, 01:34:42 PM »
Hey Cycle-- thanks for the advice about wall-clinging and pillar-dancing--I think that I need to do that more and I would get further along in the Chasm. *nodnod*

I've been playing Rogue Legacy myself. :3

I definitely want this game and have heard good things; I just haven't had money to buy it just yet. I'm kind of hoping to catch it on a holiday sale if I can.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #87 on: December 10, 2014, 01:59:01 PM »
I got killed by a giant rat. Can kill cave bears, not giant rats. Though I hatched and their were four things ready to kill me. :P Lasted 14 turns in a no-win scenario as a baby. Which was sad and cool.

How do you use your breath weapons? :P

EDIT: This game is too depressing! I keep getting baby dragons killed! By gnomes throwing mud! XD

EDIT: I am tired of getting spawn-killed though. That just feels like luck whether or not you're going to make it out of your starting area. :P

This time it was two giant rats, two bears, and three earth gnomes.

EDIT: Is there a way to skip turns? I'm trying to heal but I'm full. :P

EDIT: I don't think I can play this. The mob-happiness of it is just too frustrating for me. I keep trying to find corridors, but when gnomes can kill you with mud, what's the point. :P
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 02:31:01 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #88 on: December 10, 2014, 03:30:01 PM »
You use abilities by hitting their number key (look near the bottom for the list, breath is usually 1).  Then after hitting the number key, use arrows to aim and space to fire/attack.

I've found no way to skip a turn, which is why I pillar dance--i.e., get behind something and move back and forth or go around it.

Lure gnomes around corners and dance, then peek around to see if they are close enough to attack or shoot.


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #89 on: December 10, 2014, 03:59:17 PM »
You use abilities by hitting their number key (look near the bottom for the list, breath is usually 1).  Then after hitting the number key, use arrows to aim and space to fire/attack.

I've found no way to skip a turn, which is why I pillar dance--i.e., get behind something and move back and forth or go around it.

Lure gnomes around corners and dance, then peek around to see if they are close enough to attack or shoot.
I'm doing best with a blue dragon. Electricity is nice, but they get a blink ability that lets you go three tiles anywhere you can see and it can be used to nosh on gnomes or get away. :3

EDIT: Goddamnit! I hate the lethal fucking mud. DX

I get ambushed out in the open by two warlocks and a druid, blink around and kill them all and it's the two fucking gnomes with their mud that do me in.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 04:16:49 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #90 on: December 10, 2014, 04:52:27 PM »
Haven't tried Blue yet, but blink does sound handy.  Dabbled in Black and White, but I think Red is the strongest for my play style.  It might be the easiest of all the dragons to start with. 


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #91 on: December 10, 2014, 04:54:54 PM »
Haven't tried Blue yet, but blink does sound handy.  Dabbled in Black and White, but I think Red is the strongest for my play style.  It might be the easiest of all the dragons to start with.
I'm hooked after eating my first druid. *Om-nom* :P

I think all the money is just to improve score as the dragon's hoard. That's how I imagine it. I wish there was a loot item called virgins. XD

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #92 on: December 10, 2014, 05:56:50 PM »
Well, how do you know the paladins aren't virgins?  ;)

Okay, got a win finally!  Investing heavily on Str and then getting all the physical attacks worked for this Wyrm.  The NPCs in the final battle are tough so having +bite damage and 40% 2x damage gave me the ability to eat melee threats and heal at the same time.  It was the only way I found to survive the continuous barrage of spell bolts and counter druid healing.   

Stats

Red Great Wyrm
Won in 4209 turns.
Scored 106679 points.
Strength: 24, Stamina: 16, Will: 16.
Abilities gained:
 Bite, Line Breath, Deep Breath, Devour,
 Draconic Fury, Frightful Presence, Gem-Encrusted Hide, Hardened Scales,
 Magic Resistance, Rake, Trample, Wing Buffet.
4 orbs were found.
166 enemies were killed:
 10 barbarians
 24 cave bears
  7 deathknights
 10 druids
 18 earth gnomes
 24 giant rats
 10 hunters
  6 mages
  9 monks
 11 paladins
  5 priests
  9 rogues
 10 shamans
  6 warlocks
  7 warriors


Screenies from final fight

I Trampled the first group I saw and got like 3 of them.  Then I used a Black Pearl to go inviso and position to use Wing Buffet to knock the NPCs into the lava.  Alas, I only got 2-3.  A Deathknight pulled me to the top wall and the meleers swarmed me.  Luckily I could eat them faster than they could kill me.  ;D   The last few casters were just shot from range.






Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #93 on: December 10, 2014, 07:23:09 PM »
This game basically defines early-game-hell. Sometimes you've got no chance after hatching. :P

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #94 on: December 11, 2014, 12:22:32 AM »
Got a win with a Green one.  Followed the same strategy:  pumped Str as much as I could so I could have 2x dmg Bites to deal with the last fight.  My Lair being filled with trees was very handy, actually, for breaking the casters' line of sight and allowed me to recharge my Wing Buffet for a second use!

Stats

Green Great Wyrm
Won in 4106 turns.
Scored 108801 points.
Strength: 24, Stamina: 13, Will: 17.
Abilities gained:
 Bite, Line Breath, Devour, Draconic Fury,
 Blightbolt, Frightful Presence, Gem-Encrusted Hide, Hardened Scales,
 Magic Resistance, Rake, Trample, Wing Buffet.
6 orbs were found.
166 enemies were killed:
 10 barbarians
 21 cave bears
  5 deathknights
  9 druids
 24 earth gnomes
 21 giant rats
 13 hunters
  7 mages
 12 monks
 12 paladins
  9 priests
  6 rogues
  6 shamans
  5 warlocks
  6 warriors


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #95 on: December 11, 2014, 08:44:14 AM »
So in a supreme moment of herp-derpary I realized nearly a year later or so that FTL Advanced Edition was a free upgrade for FTL vanilla. So I'm hoping it's a little more balanced out. I don't think it will be, but I hope. FTL seems to confuse luck-based with roguelike.

EDIT: Darkfire Chasm, urg... if I can get past the first floor I can usually do pretty well, but it's really dependent on how many gnomes are mobbing you at the start and if there are any nearby corridors.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 09:32:33 AM by Inkidu »

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #96 on: December 11, 2014, 09:34:09 AM »
I have been playing Desktop Dungeons lately. Very awesome game, you need some mad strats to master it, though. The alpha version is on their site for free. I'm not sure I'd recommend this came at its full price but keep an eye on steam/GOG sales

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #97 on: December 11, 2014, 09:55:32 AM »
Gah, that was unlucky. Somwhow one of the classes got to warp me into the midst of a bunch of ranged enemies, so I got torn to pieces, and I was a red with large stamina, mag res., and hardened scales. :P

I hate it when bad luck just seems to be the deciding factor.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #98 on: December 11, 2014, 10:16:26 AM »
I hate it when bad luck just seems to be the deciding factor.

I remember a time playing the original Rogue that I went down a level and ended up in a monster room.  Wall to wall letters, and I'm sure they spelled out a cuss word or two.  And of course, there was no stair-dancing with that game.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #99 on: December 11, 2014, 10:51:42 AM »
Yep FTL is Slot Machine the Game still. :P

How is it a failing of my combat skill when I'm stuck in a solar flare zone with an unmanned attack drone with a hacking module? :\

EDIT: FTL is no longer welcome in this thread, it's not a roguelike, it's a craps game. DX
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 01:00:08 PM by Inkidu »