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Author Topic: Roguelikes  (Read 8765 times)

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Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Roguelikes
« on: November 29, 2013, 04:21:26 PM »
This is a thread about Roguelikes.

I want to get into the genre, so if anyone knows about some good ones for beginners or ones with interesting or deep stories I'd be most grateful.

Free is of course always thriftily appreciated. :D

Online Galanthor

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2013, 05:16:12 PM »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2013, 05:19:13 PM »
Fun for little breaks
It triggered my anti-virus when I went to download it. :P

Offline Jefepato

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 05:23:26 PM »
I've been playing Risk of Rain on and off.  It's a platformer, which isn't typical of roguelikes, but it is otherwise pretty roguelike-ish.

And I suck at it.  Or rather, it's a hard game.  But I have not gotten the trick of not sucking at it.  Fun, though.

Offline Sel Nar

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 06:24:07 PM »
Rogue Legacy. Side-scrolling Roguelike that has you playing as the child of the previous character when you will eventually bite the dust.

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2013, 09:17:12 PM »
I don't dig roguelikes that much but I'm tempted to try out TOME. It's a Roguelike with sort of 2d graphics which  is interesting.


I wish I could get into DF or DOA but I just can't.  Mans got to know his limitations (as a gamer.)

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 09:28:18 PM »
I don't dig roguelikes that much but I'm tempted to try out TOME. It's a Roguelike with sort of 2d graphics which  is interesting.


I wish I could get into DF or DOA but I just can't.  Mans got to know his limitations (as a gamer.)
I know DF is Dwarf Fortress, but what is DOA?

Offline Kythia

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2013, 09:50:21 PM »
Adom.  Get it, play it, quest for roguelikes complete

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2013, 10:31:09 PM »
Adom.  Get it, play it, quest for roguelikes complete
I've got ADOM, but I can't get into it all that much. With a big overmap instead of just a dungeon the guy really needs to do a better job of providing hints on where to go. Especially seeing as it's easy to starve just going from point A to B.

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2013, 12:06:18 AM »
I know DF is Dwarf Fortress, but what is DOA?

It's a typo. I had a brainfart. I meant DDA which is Dark Days Ahead.

It's an Open Source Zombie Survival Roguelike.


http://en.cataclysmdda.com/pages/3/display


I found out about it through One F Jef who does great  Lets Plays of Rogue Likes. He's done TOME , DDA , Dwarf Fortress , Prospector , Caves of Qud  and  Liberal Crime Squad. He's interesting in that he does true Iron Man Lps which means that when his character dies , they stay dead which is incredibly rare for an Lper.


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2013, 09:49:15 AM »
I got FTL: Faster than Light. It's a ship combat roguelike. :)

The only issue I've got is the developers are real bastards. "EVERY DECISION YOU MAKE WILL BE WRONG!" Seriously. Though I suppose you're supposed to trust every bit of lore. They said the guys were usually friendly and I sided with the fugitive.

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 09:58:40 AM »
Lambdarogue is a good free one - very intricate quest-based storyline about an underground bastion of humanity.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2013, 10:28:34 AM »
Thanks, Oniya. I'll look into it.

Anyway, I wish most wouldn't hide behind complex controls, or at least offered a guide-sheet (most don't, the good ones do).

Having to figure out how to control a game is not learning how to play the game. :P

EDIT: OMG! FTL is so much fun. I just one a battle with a ship only to have my whole party die of asphyxiation just because I couldn't get the O2 generator repaired in time. @u@

So much fun!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 02:00:31 PM by Inkidu »

Offline cptBacon

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2013, 01:39:55 AM »
If you have an Android phone, Pixel Dungeon is really good, free, and doesn't require any special access to your phone's features:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.watabou.pixeldungeon&hl=en

It's surprisingly well done for a free phone game.

As far as PC goes, I've always enjoyed NetHack.

Offline Jefepato

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2013, 08:38:08 AM »
EDIT: OMG! FTL is so much fun. I just one a battle with a ship only to have my whole party die of asphyxiation just because I couldn't get the O2 generator repaired in time. @u@

So much fun!

And this is what it means to play a roguelike.

You get your ass kicked like the fist of an angry deity and it's like, GIVE ME MORE SUFFERING.

Unrelated note, Dungeons of Dredmore is a pretty fun intro-roguelike, but it does cost money.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2013, 08:40:56 AM »
And this is what it means to play a roguelike.

You get your ass kicked like the fist of an angry deity and it's like, GIVE ME MORE SUFFERING.

Unrelated note, Dungeons of Dredmore is a pretty fun intro-roguelike, but it does cost money.
My only problem is even for a roguelike FTL requires way too much good luck. :\ Still, fun though.

Offline consortium11

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2013, 09:43:18 AM »
I was going to recommend FTL as a good way in to the roguelike genre. Brilliantly fun little game.

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2013, 09:46:42 AM »
The original Rogue (with the Amulet of Yendor) is out there as freeware.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2013, 10:13:50 AM »
The original Rogue (with the Amulet of Yendor) is out there as freeware.
How serious is it?

I'm actually surprised that as hardcore as roguelikes are they're not various serious in tone. You think they'd be great for grim-dark.

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2013, 10:23:49 AM »
The original Rogue was not terribly serious.  The whole thing was done in the 'extended character' graphics set, with the monsters represented by letters of the alphabet (from 'Aquataurs' that could rust your armor, to 'Zombies').  Scrolls were music notes as I remember, and potions were an inverted 'fat' exclamation point.  Gold was an asterisk.  You had two ways of identifying things:  using the item, or finding an identify scroll (which you naturally had to identify.) 

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2013, 10:27:17 AM »
The original Rogue was not terribly serious.  The whole thing was done in the 'extended character' graphics set, with the monsters represented by letters of the alphabet (from 'Aquataurs' that could rust your armor, to 'Zombies').  Scrolls were music notes as I remember, and potions were an inverted 'fat' exclamation point.  Gold was an asterisk.  You had two ways of identifying things:  using the item, or finding an identify scroll (which you naturally had to identify.)
No I know they use characters. That's not what I mean.

Nethack for example isn't very serious. You can start out as tourist with a credit card and a Hawaiian shirt. The whole tone doesn't give off that serious vibe.

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2013, 10:48:21 AM »
If you don't pick a name for your character, you get the name 'Rodney'.  Now spell it backwards, and look at the name of the amulet again.


Offline The Unholy Potato

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2013, 10:43:52 PM »
I'm a little bit of a late arrival, but thank you to CptBacon, DTW, and Oniya for sharing the magic of roguelikes.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 08:00:31 AM »
I actually seem to be doing well (knock on wood) in FTL. I'm only in the third sector but I finally got my first achievement (and it goes toward unlocking a new ship). I have a drone control module, and two crew worth of boarding/repelling party (dedicated).

The name by the way is the Iron Ronin.

EDIT: Spoke too soon. The only problem with FTL is that unlike other roguelikes were you can run away and redouble, running away in FTL just saps resources and makes you weaker. plus it takes forever.

Still, unlocked two ships (Zolton and Engi). I think I want to keep rocking the starter though, I'm trying to get the B layout for it.

Also, I refuse to play on easy. I can't stand the fact that it tells what difficulty you unlocked the achievements on.

EDIT EDIT: I guess I'm just not lucky enough to play FTL. Seriously, I'm not talking about hits and misses. If you hit a solar flare area in the before blast doors just write off the game. Also, why are there people better than my people at fighting?

Seeing as they only get better by doing you can't get your peoples' combat up without repelling boarders or boarding, which is one decently expensive facility.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 05:35:30 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Aleph

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2013, 07:31:51 AM »
I have spent years playing Nethack. I think it's a testimony to the ability of such a simple game to suck you in that I've occassionally ditched my Steam games to play NH every so often. It also has some great lore surrounding it, apart from the general this god, that unique weapon, etc. There's discovering the hard way that being so encumbered you fall down the stairs every level is a bad thing when you are wielding a manticore corpse (petrification)

"You stumble down the stairs!
You fall!
You land on your weapon!
You are turned to stone! <insert end-of-game routine here>"

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2013, 10:14:50 AM »
FTL's got no middle ground, you're either winning or you're losing. There's no give and take. Also, it has no problem just bending you over the barrel, which is the hallmark of a roguelike, but usually roguelikes let you run away. In FTL you might as well lose because running away means no scrap, and with the harsh anti-grinding feature you've only got limited time to gather scrap. So basically you've got to rely on the luck of the draw.

Oh come on, what the actual fuck! D:<

I literally started and they put a ship with missiles, burst lasers and an at least level 2 anti-ship drone. WHAT THE FUCK!

THAT'S NOT EVEN BEATABLE! I'm done (which I know is a really hollow promise, but fuck)!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 11:09:35 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Caeli

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2013, 11:17:08 AM »
Can someone here explain what a "roguelike" is? Incidentally, one of my friends mentioned Pixel Dungeon recently and said it was really done for phone app/game, and said that there was one on PC that he wanted to show me because it was really good and he thought I would like it.

(But I don't even know what this genre of game is...!)

Offline consortium11

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2013, 11:23:45 AM »
Can someone here explain what a "roguelike" is? Incidentally, one of my friends mentioned Pixel Dungeon recently and said it was really done for phone app/game, and said that there was one on PC that he wanted to show me because it was really good and he thought I would like it.

(But I don't even know what this genre of game is...!)

Rogue like is literally "like Rogue" which was the most high profile early game in the genre.

As a general rule a roguelike is a combat and inventory management focused (sometimes to the exclusion of plot) RPG generally presented in a simple way based around dungeon crawling with randomly generated dungeons. They're intended to be "hardcore" in the sense that they feature perna-death and are generally very difficult.

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2013, 11:24:37 AM »
A key feature is that every level is generated either on the fly, or as you enter the level.  Some of them even redo the levels if you leave and come back.  As a result, it's literally a new game every time you play. 

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2013, 11:54:50 AM »

Offline Caeli

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2013, 11:58:43 AM »
Ah, I get it!

Thanks for the explanations and link. :D

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 12:05:31 PM »
I was particularly fond of Chocobo's Dungeon 2 (you can't get number 1 in the States as far as I know).

Offline Caeli

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2013, 12:15:20 PM »
I really liked Diablo II (even though it wasn't a 'true' Roguelike with permadeath), and I've been curious about trying out Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. xD I played a trial version of it and really enjoyed the concept.

Offline Sel Nar

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 01:41:48 PM »
in An earlier post, I suggested Rogue legacy as a 'Pseudo' Roguelike, in that the game is primarily skill-based; you go into a randomly-generated castle and attending areas, make gold, kill monsters, and, when you die, your heir uses your gold to upgrade his/her stats via expanding the family manor, and/or getting new weapons via found blueprints within the dungeon. There's no inventory management, and there's some rather amusing traits, such as Alektorophobia, which turns all the food in the dungeon (normally 10% heal) into headless, plucked, roast chickens that run about, and you need to clobber with your weapon to kill them.

That's one of around 20+ traits and your heirs can have up to 2 traits each. Good, solid fun, though some classes lose effectiveness as you go into new game +

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2013, 09:46:04 AM »
FTL is really beginning to simply piss me off. Not in the way roguelikes normally do. There's just no sense of mastery. I had one of my best games ever. I jumped to a civilian sector (generally the easiest going sector possible) and the first fight I get into is just so powerful I didn't stand a chance. They had bombs, a ton of lasers, a teleporter. WTF. My best possible equipped ship and it gets shredded like I hadn't done a fucking thing!

TOO MUCH LUCK! D:<

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2013, 10:37:18 AM »
I recommend Crawl Stone Soup.  There is a tiles version that looks pretty nice.  Gameplay is well balanced and it is actively maintained.  You can play online as well, and compete in tournaments.


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2013, 12:12:48 PM »
I recommend Crawl Stone Soup.  There is a tiles version that looks pretty nice.  Gameplay is well balanced and it is actively maintained.  You can play online as well, and compete in tournaments.
Doesn't sound very serious. I have a hard time taking a lot of roguelike games seriously. Since the consequences of play are so brutal (or sadistic) the atmosphere of the game has to take itself just as seriously.

Also, FTL makes me want to never fund a Kickstarter ever. If that's what people's money bought they need to get a refund. The randomness is just sadistic, mean, and petty. You've got to have a perfect run. Luck just has to come down on your side every time.

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2013, 12:36:59 PM »
Doesn't sound very serious. I have a hard time taking a lot of roguelike games seriously. Since the consequences of play are so brutal (or sadistic) the atmosphere of the game has to take itself just as seriously.

The game is pretty serious, actually.  It's not NetHack.  The development team strives to maintain the spirit of rogue--no grinding, decisions have consequences, no "unfair" deaths, hard as heck--and I think they've succeeded.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2013, 12:38:11 PM »
I recommend Crawl Stone Soup.  There is a tiles version that looks pretty nice.  Gameplay is well balanced and it is actively maintained.  You can play online as well, and compete in tournaments.

I might try this one out; I've been meaning to try out a roguelike.

Offline Aleph

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2013, 02:58:24 AM »
The game is pretty serious, actually.  It's not NetHack.  The development team strives to maintain the spirit of rogue--no grinding, decisions have consequences, no "unfair" deaths, hard as heck--and I think they've succeeded.

I second Cycle's call, Crawl is a really good RL as well.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2013, 10:28:26 AM »
So I got to the final boss of FTL

My ultimate verdict. Terrible game, relies way too much on luck, and it's only cheapened by the fact the final boss basically breaks all the rules and due to the random nature of the game can actually spawn in a sector where you can't actually reach him to beat him in any shade of the word reasonably. I could have stomached a tough final boss but it gets so many cheats that it can kill the best ship in two salvos (i.e. firing all its weapons at you not really unified).

I guess I'll try Dungeon Craw Stone Soup next.

EDIT: Been going through the tutorials at a leisurely pace, but they need to tweak the Gods and Religion one. I follow all the instruction and I'm dying. Normally not a problem, but it's a tutorial. :L

EDIT: Going to soften my verdict on FTL. I should not type out of anger, but if you play it be prepared to knuckle down on how frustrating and random it feels. Also Dungeon Crawl is pretty good. I picked human hunter, but it's got a lot of species to play as.

EDIT: First death in dungeon crawl was not as satisfying as it should have been. Got my character to level nine and just ran into a tough but otherwise unremarkable orc. You kind of expect more of your deaths in a roguelike. I killed the wizard, his lackies and this orc just shows up with a great mace and put the last nail in. Also I find the gender-neutral language really dull.

EDIT: Well, that wasn't exactly what I'd call fair or balanced. Second level of the dungeon and this extreme threat/unique hero named Sigmund comes out of nowhere and crushes my character before she can run back to the stairs. Reeeeeeeeeeal balanced. -__-;

EDIT: Okay this is absurd. This Sigmund guy keeps showing up and slaughtering my characters! I mean. I'm used to dying in a roguelike, it's not fun, but it gives it a sense of verisimilitude, but come on! There's no hope of me beating this guy, and if he sees you you're dead. You're so low-level there's just nothing you can do. It's not even RNG hits and misses. Here's this guy and you're going to die. Maybe I just don't fucking get it. Maybe I should just give up the genre.

EDIT: Of course, I go with a bog-standard sword and board warrior just stabbing everything with a trident with reckless abandon and have yet to die. I mean my Tengu (bird-person) can fly and I haven't even been trying. :P
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 09:26:15 PM by Inkidu »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2013, 12:23:42 PM »
Anyone know of any other good free ones?

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2013, 01:21:31 PM »
EDIT: Okay this is absurd. This Sigmund guy keeps showing up and slaughtering my characters! I mean. I'm used to dying in a roguelike, it's not fun, but it gives it a sense of verisimilitude, but come on! There's no hope of me beating this guy, and if he sees you you're dead. You're so low-level there's just nothing you can do. It's not even RNG hits and misses. Here's this guy and you're going to die. Maybe I just don't fucking get it. Maybe I should just give up the genre.

Not all race and class combination are the same strength.  Try a Hill Orc or Minotaur Gladiator.  Also, focus your skills on one or two at a time, not everything.  Start with offense, then defense.  So in the case of these two combos, focus on your polearm skill until it is like 6-8. 

As for Sigmund, that goes to understanding when to retreat.  You are never going to get to a point where your character can beat everything, all the time.  There will always be something that can kill you.  You can die on the end of a 15 rune run, with a maxed out character.  So you need to be careful, and learn when to retreat, or use a consumable.  Sigmund--and worse, Grinder--are NPCs that you should simply run from.  Just retreat, go around the corner.  Go down or up a set of stairs and come back later, when you have a few more levels under your belt.  Use a Fog Scroll, Blink, summon a rat, drink an Inviso potion, zap a Confusion wand, use a god power.  There are ways to cope with everything in Crawl. 

I suggest you use the KnowledgeBots at the main site to learn about new NPCs and monsters.  Good luck.


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2013, 01:38:18 PM »
Yeah, but the guy is obviously way too powerful for level two of the dungeon. :P

It really seems like an oversight on such an anti-grind focused game that generally prides itself on being fairer than most roguelikes.

EDIT: Almost killed a golin or something named Pikal (or close to it). Popped open a scroll of fear, but I missed it by one hit. :P

That's a roguelike, not something so obviously overpowered I had no chance of beating it or running away. He was literally faster than my Tengu and humans. :\

EDIT: That was funny! Drop down a shaft into a horde of orcs and other things. That one was my fault. I thought I could take them all because I had a scroll of fear and several buff spells. Should have used my scroll of teleport though.

I took several with me though.

EDIT: I think my problem with Crawl is that the leveling up system for your skills is so nebulous. So I'm wondering if it's best to put low or no values into the ones you'll use enough to level up, and train in the rest. Honestly though, unless yo lean to just check in periodically you're never going to know when it "reaches a new whole number". I get more is better.However, I have no frame of reference for when it's trained enough that I could start something else.

EDIT: Monks suck, unilaterally. :P
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:48:39 AM by Inkidu »

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2013, 06:12:16 AM »
Tales of Maj'Eyal just got it's release on Steam. It's an award winning roguelike with a pretty nice interface, vast tile set,  comprehensive mouse driven controls as well as traditional controls, an overworld map alongside quests and a full story and bags of unlockable stuff and character options as you level.
The game is designed to cut out the grind and farm, leaving behind the lean meat of a sharp tactical combat system and interesting customization choices.

Worth a look if you're still down for more roguelikes.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2013, 06:18:35 AM »
Tales of Maj'Eyal just got it's release on Steam. It's an award winning roguelike with a pretty nice interface, vast tile set,  comprehensive mouse driven controls as well as traditional controls, an overworld map alongside quests and a full story and bags of unlockable stuff and character options as you level.
The game is designed to cut out the grind and farm, leaving behind the lean meat of a sharp tactical combat system and interesting customization choices.

Worth a look if you're still down for more roguelikes.
Is it free? Because it used to be free. :P

Nope, answered my own question.

I did get the free 1.1 version of 4 TOME. So I'm wondering what the differences are between the free version and the paid.

EDIT: ToME is pretty straight forward, but I'm still not clear on a few things. Like other than inscriptions what's the point of using category points to up actual categories? I took the tutorial but it was kind of vague. I'll probably run through it one more time to see if something clicks.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 05:28:13 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Nadir

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2013, 07:34:05 PM »
I've been enjoying Sword Of The Stars; The Pit quite a lot. Very worth the price, in my opinion.

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2013, 04:45:46 AM »
As a kid, I put so much time and effort into the Pokemon mystery dungeon series. Fantastic rougelike ( don't get the 3ds one. That one is crap. I recommend explorers of time. )

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2013, 09:19:27 AM »
I've been enjoying Sword Of The Stars; The Pit quite a lot. Very worth the price, in my opinion.
Eh, I'm wary about the SotS franchise since I blew all that money on SotS II. Even after a year of fixes it was just a convoluted mess that added in stuff just to be obscure and more difficult. It added things like feasibility studies, which were a terrible idea. Yeah, I'm going to to devote time and resources to research if I can even research a technology, and not even a good technology, just not one I might have access too. Don't even get into the mission system.

Anyway, I don't have much money at all for entertainment after FTL.

Also, that's a big file size. 1.1 gigs. Whoo.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 09:20:50 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Caeli

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2013, 12:47:48 PM »
I've really been getting into Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.  I tried out the (unofficial) Android port last night and, while it's not as easy to use as on the desktop (where you can use keyboard shortcuts), after the initial learning curve of figuring out where things are, it's got the same kind of addictive, "I'm going to win this time!" feeling.

My phone screen was too small to play comfortably, though, so I might try it on my tablet and see how that is.

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2013, 12:55:08 PM »
I've really been getting into Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.  I tried out the (unofficial) Android port last night and, while it's not as easy to use as on the desktop (where you can use keyboard shortcuts), after the initial learning curve of figuring out where things are, it's got the same kind of addictive, "I'm going to win this time!" feeling.

My phone screen was too small to play comfortably, though, so I might try it on my tablet and see how that is.
Yeah I like crawl too, but I'm trying to learn Dwarf Fortress again. See if I can get some good fortresses for adventure mode.

Online Love And Submission

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2013, 01:35:18 AM »
I really want to Try Rim World. But I have a lot on my plate video game wise right now.


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2014, 06:17:36 PM »
I really want to Try Rim World. But I have a lot on my plate video game wise right now.
I'm leery of crowd-funding pre-alpha stuff. Alpha is just to volatile. Still, it looks really neat.

Offline scribus1000

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2014, 12:20:50 PM »
I can recommend two for you guys, Spelunky and Rogue Survivor, those two are free and have kept me occupied for a bit. They basically kicked my ass to the moon and back, but maybe I just suck at them.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 12:22:45 PM by scribus1000 »

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2014, 01:02:27 PM »
Spelunky was kind of fun, even in just the sense of 'get all the stuff you can'.  I never got too 'deep', but then again, I never had a sense that there was some 'end goal' I had to achieve.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2014, 05:35:33 PM »
I'm trying out a roguelike called Tales of Maj'Eyal at the moment. Hopefully it's good.

EDIT: It's...not terrible. Kind of meh, really. It's doesn't really grab me and make me want to play in any real way.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 06:28:09 PM by Blythe »

Offline scribus1000

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2014, 06:38:30 PM »
Some screenshots from some sessions of Rogue Survivor:

Neil Vance


Run away from the zombies with horns! General rule of thumb for dealing with any zombie, but it goes double for them.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide


If a biker gang catches you up close, even running won't help. I chose to fight back, died, came back as a zombie...

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide


...and met a squad of national guardsmen. With assault rifles.

Ginger Black


Ventured into the hospital as my game started there, then I met the above man. You can imagine how that went. I knew he was there to begin with though, the reason why I chose to meet him anyway was so that I...

Jason Myers


Could play as him. NPCs are automatically hostile towards him, so there's not much he can do once outside the hospital. I went out and was promptly shot by a national guardsman.

There is one really long playthrough I did once recently, that was my best one yet. She survived 19 days, the longest record I've had. The longer the game goes, the crazier things can get:

Monica Rockwell--the record holder


And not enough ammo to fight them all.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 06:41:45 PM by scribus1000 »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2014, 07:21:46 PM »
I'm trying out a roguelike called Tales of Maj'Eyal at the moment. Hopefully it's good.

EDIT: It's...not terrible. Kind of meh, really. It's doesn't really grab me and make me want to play in any real way.
That's what I thought. I'm finding Roguelikes are either hit or miss, no wiggle room.

Offline alextaylor

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2014, 09:12:15 AM »
Rimworld's really good, but not quite worth the price tag (yet). I've figured out some layouts which almost always lets you kill all raiders, so it's boring past that point where you're getting and selling off tons of weapons and have all the resources you ever need.

I think FTL is a lot less random than you've described. It takes a long time to spot which bits are random and what can be changed, but skill really does go a long way.

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is probably as stable and strategic as roguelikes get.

Try IVAN too. Plenty of fun chaotic stuff, especially if you're the masochistic DF player type.

ADOM was great for its time (when I was like in elementary school) but it's aged poorly these days. Won't even play well on a laptop, unlike say Dungeon Crawl. Biskup is doing an epic remake of it though.


Also thanks a lot for the Pixel Dungeon recommendation! Most roguelikes are heavily adapted from PC, which means they rely on tons of buttons to move and totally annoying to play on a touchphone. Pixel Dungeon has a straightforward UI, and yet enough complexity to be a full roguelike. Better graphics than 99% of roguelikes too!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 01:13:02 AM by alextaylor »

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2014, 08:47:29 AM »
I think FTL is a lot less random than you've described. It takes a long time to spot which bits are random and what can be changed, but skill really does go a long way.
Honestly at the end of the day I think the gratuitous randomness of FTL is just the icing. The real problem I have is the final boss. Not that he's particularly hard mind you, given certain factors. He's literally out of left field and runs counter to the mechanics and principles of the game. Yes, I could beat him, but you've already got to know how to beat him to beat him, which is not good game design ever.

Quote
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is probably as stable and strategic as roguelikes get.
Yeah, it is, as much as it has those things that stick a monkey wrench in an otherwise smooth experience (i.e. Sigmund around a blind corner).

Quote
Try IVAN too. Plenty of fun chaotic stuff, especially if you're the masochistic DF player type.
Looked it up, out of development.

Quote
ADOM was great for its time (when I was like in elementary school) but it's aged poorly these days. Won't even play well on a laptop, unlike say Dungeon Crawl. Biskup is doing an epic remake of it though.
I've got ADOM. I'm pretty sure no one knows about the original anymore. :)
Biskup has usurped it.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 08:48:44 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Jefepato

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2014, 03:10:01 PM »
I've beaten Risk of Rain a few times, but damn if I didn't have to sink 98 hours into the game to do it.  Thinking of picking up Dwarf Fortress again -- I used to have a pretty good handle on the basics of DF, but it's been a while (and a new version) since then.  (And I never did figure out water pumps.)

I've been hearing good things about Tales of Maj'Eyal but I don't know if I have the energy to get into it.  Dungeons of Dredmor might be more my speed for the moment.

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2014, 03:48:14 PM »
I've beaten Risk of Rain a few times, but damn if I didn't have to sink 98 hours into the game to do it.  Thinking of picking up Dwarf Fortress again -- I used to have a pretty good handle on the basics of DF, but it's been a while (and a new version) since then.  (And I never did figure out water pumps.)

I've been hearing good things about Tales of Maj'Eyal but I don't know if I have the energy to get into it.  Dungeons of Dredmor might be more my speed for the moment.
I found TOME a little eh...

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2014, 04:00:47 PM »
Going to try out Infra Arcana and Elona. If someone tries Infra Arcana first, let me know how it is? Definitely trying out Elona, though.

Edit: Accidentally edited this post rather than making a new post, so I tried to put back what I remembered having here. Arrrgh. >_<
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 02:38:35 PM by Blythe »

Offline alextaylor

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #63 on: January 21, 2014, 07:23:10 AM »
Looked it up, out of development.

IVAN has been out of development for years now, but really fun in its present stage, even though you can't win it. The kind of game where you can accidentally turn your limbs into bananas. Or survive stepping on a mine but die from a chain reaction of exploding wands and potions.

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2014, 11:09:27 AM »
IVAN has been out of development for years now, but really fun in its present stage, even though you can't win it. The kind of game where you can accidentally turn your limbs into bananas. Or survive stepping on a mine but die from a chain reaction of exploding wands and potions.
I don't like games that aren't complete or aren't at least being supported in an incomplete state.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2014, 02:36:02 PM »
Haven't gotten to try Infra Arcana yet, but I have tried out Elona. It's a goofy fantasy game set in a standard jrpg anime fantasy world. Kind of cutesy, not necessarily in a bad way. The graphics are better than a typical roguelike...but....read on for my reservations about the game.

It's...hmmm. Hard to describe. It's fun, yeah, but to me, it's not really a roguelike, even though it's billed as one. It lacks permadeath, for one, and wizards are damnably hard to play because the game is geared against them (in most playthroughs, spellbook drops/getting them in shops is rare, which makes your character kind of useless). It comes off more like an off-the-wall and difficult to play japanese rpg than anything. I do enjoy it (its hilarious, and you can die by the craziest things), but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a roguelike. More like a "roguelike-lite." It's got the randomized dungeon/enemy element, and the controls do remind me of a proper roguelike, but it's lacking that fundamental permadeath feature, and some of the races and classes don't seem playable. To me, a roguelike should have each race and each class as something that can be succeeded with, even if it's hard, and wizards in Elona are doomed to fail. But yeah, some of these things don't seem playable. Don't believe me?

You can be a snail in Elona. Or a farmer. Or a tourist.

At any rate, I'd recommend Elona for someone wanting the tone of a roguelike but who doesn't actually want to play a roguelike.

Offline Caeli

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2014, 04:04:12 PM »
The Humble Bundle Weekly Sale this week is focusing on roguelikes!

Offline Nadir

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2014, 06:10:43 PM »
The Humble Bundle Weekly Sale this week is focusing on roguelikes!

aaaagh, you ninja! *grin*

Offline alextaylor

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2014, 07:11:34 AM »
I bought that roguelike bundle in like the first 5 hours after it came out. I'm actually quite a bit disappointed by it.

Binding of Isaac seems a bit shallow. Not random items and stuff you'd expect from roguelikes. It gives you the awesome disorientation feel you'd expect from most roguelikes. But not the procedurally generated stories. Being action based just stretches the game time longer and makes it more frustrating. I don't mind dying in most roguelikes, because death is avoidable, but in Binding of Isaac, I get frustrated because it's my fault.

Hack Slash Loot seems a bit too generic. I haven't played it too far because it leaves me confused and bored from the start. I'll give it another shot later.

Dungeons of Dredmor is not bad in terms of gameplay. But I'm quite annoyed at the lack of a theme. It also falls into the trap of having way too much junk. It's actively trying to be unintuitive. There's no beginner classes to start learning the game with. I copied some builds from the wiki but the lack of a class system to learn the game is still a bit annoying. I might actually start enjoying it after a few hours, after learning what everything does.

The Pit is quite boring IMO. I was playing it for a few hours and just... stopped. I didn't even die yet, I was bored out of my mind. There seems to be nothing to look forward to. I get more fun and randomness from Doom Roguelike.


So, my recommendation: skip the bundle. Not even worth the $6 IMO. It's only been a day and I'm bored with most of them. If I hadn't actually pay for them, I'd stop playing and go back to Crawl and Spelunky. Spend that $6 on Unreal World or FTL instead.

Offline Tyrhung

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2014, 09:14:42 PM »
Haha, and here I thought I could come this late into the thread and say something clever!  Good job, you guys... I thought I knew a lot about Roguelikes, but after reading, I see I knew very little.

Anyone ever play Don't Starve?  It's not free, and perhaps it's not a 'true' roguelike, but it adds a whole 'nother take on... well... not starving.  Dying is incredibly bad, too.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2014, 08:51:51 PM »
Booted up FTL again... and then I remember why I stopped playing it.

First jump on normal, I hit:

A Zoltan ship with an ion blaster, a missile, and an anti-ship drone.

Luck-Based Mission the Game!

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2014, 10:12:04 PM »
Anyone ever play Don't Starve?  It's not free, and perhaps it's not a 'true' roguelike, but it adds a whole 'nother take on... well... not starving.  Dying is incredibly bad, too.

I'm a big fan of that game and have been since I got it on Steam. It's got that survival/luck/permadeath factor going for it that makes it very much a roguelike, although I would say that it's the crafting in the game that makes it feel like it might not be a "true" roguelike. However, I'd argue that the presence of some of the items you find (such as the various Things, like the Ring Thing.) are left for players to figure out and puts it back in "roguelike" territory.

They're due to release an update for it soon called Reign of Giants, which I'm excited about!

Offline NotoriusBEN

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2014, 12:46:38 AM »
I liked Dungeons of Dredmore. Yea, its probably not in the serious vein that the thread OP wants, but that's kinda the charm with roguelikes. You got all this death and the only thing you can do is laugh it off and try again. What's hilarious about Dungeons of Dregmore is that many times, your abilities can backfire and even kill you if you are not careful. I've stolen my own soul as a warlock, and I've casted too much fire as a pyromancer that I've burned myself up in the ensuing conflagration.

I didn't see anyone mention it, but Legend of Grimrock might scratch that serious roguelike itch. You are a party of 4 people and you gotta get out of the Grimrock Dungeons. Lots of inventory management.

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2014, 03:29:17 PM »
If you steal your own soul - where does it go?

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #74 on: May 05, 2014, 12:10:52 PM »
I knew there was a topic where someone had mentioned FTL. Figured I'd post here rather than make a separate topic.

I bought that game recently...and I don't know if I love it a lot or utterly loathe it. On the one hand, there's a bit of strategizing you can do, but on the other hand, damn....the luck factor is just impossible. If luck isn't on your side, you're not winning at FTL, no matter how good you are at strategy. T_T

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #75 on: May 05, 2014, 12:28:11 PM »
I knew there was a topic where someone had mentioned FTL. Figured I'd post here rather than make a separate topic.

I bought that game recently...and I don't know if I love it a lot or utterly loathe it. On the one hand, there's a bit of strategizing you can do, but on the other hand, damn....the luck factor is just impossible. If luck isn't on your side, you're not winning at FTL, no matter how good you are at strategy. T_T
Don't tell FTL fans that. They don't believe in luck. :\

I agree though. There are things that I like about it, things I want to like, but the luck... good God... the luck.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #76 on: May 05, 2014, 12:39:12 PM »
Ye gods, how can they not believe in luck when it's just...everywhere in that game? O_o

But yeah, there's some great elements to the game. I really like being able to custom my ship, and the lone bit of effective strategy I've been able to do has always exclusively involved not just how I upgrade, but when.

Gotta say I developed an appreciation for Long Range Sensors, because they've been helping me avoid being attacked as often.

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #77 on: May 07, 2014, 10:20:08 PM »
*nods*

I played that on Easy and it's pretty do-able.  But on Normal, you can get really burned with a bad encounter.  I had one game where I was doing well with that energy cruiser, using ions to shut down everything.  Getting scrap, having fun, then bam.  I get boarded by like 5 invaders in a non-nebula jump in Sector 1.  Game over.  Maybe there is a trick to countering the luck.  But I haven't found it yet!   ;D

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #78 on: May 08, 2014, 10:39:36 AM »
*nods*

I played that on Easy and it's pretty do-able.  But on Normal, you can get really burned with a bad encounter.  I had one game where I was doing well with that energy cruiser, using ions to shut down everything.  Getting scrap, having fun, then bam.  I get boarded by like 5 invaders in a non-nebula jump in Sector 1.  Game over.  Maybe there is a trick to countering the luck.  But I haven't found it yet!   ;D
I also hate that the final boss is one of those you have to get to before you can even think about beating it. I.E. the game doesn't take into account that everything in the game should have led up to it, it's just counter to everything the game's established up to that point.

Also the developers don't really find it being basically Luck Based: The Game bad. :\

Big fans of slot machines I guess.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2014, 02:57:19 PM »
I thought about starting a new roguelikes topic, but this thread does seem to serve well enough even though it hasn't been active in a bit!

I found a what appears to be a neat little roguelike:
http://dowhilecompiling.blogspot.ca/p/drakefire-chasm.html

Drakefire chasm--you play as a wyrmling dragon (you can pick your color, which determines some damage types and some movement stuff) and you get a starting breath weapon (you can pick the shape of it, too, which is interesting) in a dungeon seeking to grow to your fullest potential. I have only just started trying it out, and it does use ACSII graphics, but it was a neat looking sort of find. No idea if it's balanced or not for a roguelike yet--I do know that it's entirely possible to start the game in a bad situation surrounded by enemies, but I have also had some reasonable luck, if I'm very careful were I choose to move, getting out of the way and surviving. I couldn't remember if anyone had mentioned this particular game before. If anyone else is playing it, I would love to know your opinions of it (good or bad!).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 02:58:57 PM by Blythe »

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2014, 03:08:15 PM »
I love the domain name.

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2014, 03:41:17 PM »
Oooh... other ascii roguelikes have taught me to fear the almighty capital D... now there is a game that lets me play as one! I'll have to check this out, thank you!

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2014, 03:59:24 PM »
Oooh... other ascii roguelikes have taught me to fear the almighty capital D... now there is a game that lets me play as one! I'll have to check this out, thank you!

I hope that you like it--if you get time to play, please let me know what you think!

Update: I've run through a few lives on Drakefire Chasm. Initial thoughts!
* When choosing your breath weapon, think about what kind of combatant you are. If you have difficulty with managing movement, pick Ball, especially if you think you'll get swarmed a lot. Line is okay. Cone hasn't really worked out for me so far--maybe I'm not using it correctly. Be warned about Ball, though, the damage output is low to compensate for the large area.
* Reds get extra HP starting out and make for a good starting dragon if you are new to Drakefire Chasm. Plus they can move through lava, which can be very valuable.
* Be very careful what you eat, because this will influence your statistics. You can only eat so much per level of the Chasm. When you get to 100% Satiation and move to the next level, you level up and get to select a new dragon ability based on what your current stats are.
* My best playthrough so far I got to become a Mature Adult Black Dragon. I had a Ball breath weapon. "Bite" is a great ability, because if you can slay an enemy with it, you get extra HP back, and my dragon did well with this.
* I hate gnomes. >_<
* I seem to die rather quickly, quicker than I normally do in most roguelikes. Not sure if this is because I haven't really grasped the game yet or if it's harder on the early levels.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 04:00:38 PM by Blythe »

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #83 on: December 09, 2014, 08:26:14 PM »
I gave this a try and it is a lot of fun.  Thanks, Blythe!  My best run so far is a young adult red.  I've found fighting in corridors to work well--assuming you can find any.  :D  Because of that, I've gone with the line breath attack and it's been alright so far.



Edit:  found a guide of sorts that gives you a breakdown of the development tree.  It looks like an important aspect of the game is the rock-paper-scissors issue:  i.e., using the right attack against the right enemy type.



Edit again:  okay, red's line attack works really well.  It was one-shotting lots of adventurers and all the normal critters.  Having multiple abilities is also definitely a plus since you can rotate them while waiting out their cooldowns.  I managed to get to the final fight (I think) and got slaughtered.  I think I need to up my Stamina more if I plan to use inferno...  also, those orbs are definitely handy in that last fight!

Best run so far!

Red Great Wyrm
Was killed by a druid after 3705 turns.
Scored 58782 points.
Strength: 23, Stamina: 16, Will: 17.
Abilities gained:
 Bite, Line Breath, Deep Breath, Devour,
 Frightful Presence, Gem-Encrusted Hide, Hardened Scales, Indomitable,
 Inferno, Magic Resistance, Rake, Trample.
5 orbs were found.
142 enemies were killed:
  3 barbarians
 18 cave bears
  7 deathknights
 10 druids
 24 earth gnomes
 24 giant rats
  7 hunters
  8 mages
  4 monks
  5 paladins
  3 priests
  5 rogues
  8 shamans
  5 warlocks
 11 warriors


« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 01:08:46 AM by Cycle »

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2014, 12:48:35 PM »
Okay, I am making much better progress with this game and have been getting to the final fight with some regularity (and keep losing!).  What has been working for me so far are the following:

1.  Using my abilities frequently.  When I see any single enemy in line of sight, I just shoot it with line breath immediately.  Breath and Bite recharge fast--like maybe 3 moves?--so you can fire, retreat a bit, and fire again.  They don't run out of "ammo" so there is really no need to conserve.  Line breath also kills things fast so you don't need to heal as much.  I think of it as a sniper rifle.

2.  Waiting until after my abilities recharge before exploring.  You don't want to get caught without your guns loaded!

3.  Not eating until I am at least 33% hurt.  Crawl taught me to eat chunks as soon as I can.  That is not true in Drakefire.  In this game, you want to eat chunks as late as you can--ideally after you've cleared the floor and can choose what stat you want.

4.  On named NPC levels, I try to create a pile of corpses in good fighting areas like a corner or corridor.  I'd lure a rat or bear or something easy to a good spot like that and kill it but not eat it.  Repeat until I have two or three.  Then when I run into a named NPC, I retreat and try to lure them to that spot, and from there I blast or bite.  NPCs can do mongo damage so having several corpses nearby means I can heal quickly in the middle of a major tussle.

5.  I've been having good luck picking up Hardened Scales, MR, and Frightful Presence (in that order).  All of those seem to boost my defenses quite a bit, esp against those ranged casters.

6.  Pillar dancing works well against the melee NPCs.  That is, when I see one, I duck around a set of walls and just move away until my breath or bite attach recharges, and then go in for the kill.  It works way better than just standing there and duking it out while you wait for the recharge.

7.  Wall hugging is very important when exploring bigger rooms--i.e., I explore a big room by going around the outside, never going into the middle until I see it is clear.  It cuts down the number of enemies that can see you at one time.

8.  Trample is good against solo named NPCs.  Lure them into a corridor and charge.  It stuns them and then you can go for the bite!  And its range is actually 1 more than what the highlight shows.  If the enemy is one step beyond the end of the highlight, they WILL get hit.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2014, 01:12:58 PM »
I've been playing Rogue Legacy myself. :3

It's a platformer roguelike. :3

Pretty good. Definitely going to look into the dragon game since you can devour people. *Om-nom*

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2014, 01:34:42 PM »
Hey Cycle-- thanks for the advice about wall-clinging and pillar-dancing--I think that I need to do that more and I would get further along in the Chasm. *nodnod*

I've been playing Rogue Legacy myself. :3

I definitely want this game and have heard good things; I just haven't had money to buy it just yet. I'm kind of hoping to catch it on a holiday sale if I can.

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #87 on: December 10, 2014, 01:59:01 PM »
I got killed by a giant rat. Can kill cave bears, not giant rats. Though I hatched and their were four things ready to kill me. :P Lasted 14 turns in a no-win scenario as a baby. Which was sad and cool.

How do you use your breath weapons? :P

EDIT: This game is too depressing! I keep getting baby dragons killed! By gnomes throwing mud! XD

EDIT: I am tired of getting spawn-killed though. That just feels like luck whether or not you're going to make it out of your starting area. :P

This time it was two giant rats, two bears, and three earth gnomes.

EDIT: Is there a way to skip turns? I'm trying to heal but I'm full. :P

EDIT: I don't think I can play this. The mob-happiness of it is just too frustrating for me. I keep trying to find corridors, but when gnomes can kill you with mud, what's the point. :P
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 02:31:01 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #88 on: December 10, 2014, 03:30:01 PM »
You use abilities by hitting their number key (look near the bottom for the list, breath is usually 1).  Then after hitting the number key, use arrows to aim and space to fire/attack.

I've found no way to skip a turn, which is why I pillar dance--i.e., get behind something and move back and forth or go around it.

Lure gnomes around corners and dance, then peek around to see if they are close enough to attack or shoot.


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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #89 on: December 10, 2014, 03:59:17 PM »
You use abilities by hitting their number key (look near the bottom for the list, breath is usually 1).  Then after hitting the number key, use arrows to aim and space to fire/attack.

I've found no way to skip a turn, which is why I pillar dance--i.e., get behind something and move back and forth or go around it.

Lure gnomes around corners and dance, then peek around to see if they are close enough to attack or shoot.
I'm doing best with a blue dragon. Electricity is nice, but they get a blink ability that lets you go three tiles anywhere you can see and it can be used to nosh on gnomes or get away. :3

EDIT: Goddamnit! I hate the lethal fucking mud. DX

I get ambushed out in the open by two warlocks and a druid, blink around and kill them all and it's the two fucking gnomes with their mud that do me in.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 04:16:49 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #90 on: December 10, 2014, 04:52:27 PM »
Haven't tried Blue yet, but blink does sound handy.  Dabbled in Black and White, but I think Red is the strongest for my play style.  It might be the easiest of all the dragons to start with. 


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #91 on: December 10, 2014, 04:54:54 PM »
Haven't tried Blue yet, but blink does sound handy.  Dabbled in Black and White, but I think Red is the strongest for my play style.  It might be the easiest of all the dragons to start with.
I'm hooked after eating my first druid. *Om-nom* :P

I think all the money is just to improve score as the dragon's hoard. That's how I imagine it. I wish there was a loot item called virgins. XD

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #92 on: December 10, 2014, 05:56:50 PM »
Well, how do you know the paladins aren't virgins?  ;)

Okay, got a win finally!  Investing heavily on Str and then getting all the physical attacks worked for this Wyrm.  The NPCs in the final battle are tough so having +bite damage and 40% 2x damage gave me the ability to eat melee threats and heal at the same time.  It was the only way I found to survive the continuous barrage of spell bolts and counter druid healing.   

Stats

Red Great Wyrm
Won in 4209 turns.
Scored 106679 points.
Strength: 24, Stamina: 16, Will: 16.
Abilities gained:
 Bite, Line Breath, Deep Breath, Devour,
 Draconic Fury, Frightful Presence, Gem-Encrusted Hide, Hardened Scales,
 Magic Resistance, Rake, Trample, Wing Buffet.
4 orbs were found.
166 enemies were killed:
 10 barbarians
 24 cave bears
  7 deathknights
 10 druids
 18 earth gnomes
 24 giant rats
 10 hunters
  6 mages
  9 monks
 11 paladins
  5 priests
  9 rogues
 10 shamans
  6 warlocks
  7 warriors


Screenies from final fight

I Trampled the first group I saw and got like 3 of them.  Then I used a Black Pearl to go inviso and position to use Wing Buffet to knock the NPCs into the lava.  Alas, I only got 2-3.  A Deathknight pulled me to the top wall and the meleers swarmed me.  Luckily I could eat them faster than they could kill me.  ;D   The last few casters were just shot from range.






Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #93 on: December 10, 2014, 07:23:09 PM »
This game basically defines early-game-hell. Sometimes you've got no chance after hatching. :P

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #94 on: December 11, 2014, 12:22:32 AM »
Got a win with a Green one.  Followed the same strategy:  pumped Str as much as I could so I could have 2x dmg Bites to deal with the last fight.  My Lair being filled with trees was very handy, actually, for breaking the casters' line of sight and allowed me to recharge my Wing Buffet for a second use!

Stats

Green Great Wyrm
Won in 4106 turns.
Scored 108801 points.
Strength: 24, Stamina: 13, Will: 17.
Abilities gained:
 Bite, Line Breath, Devour, Draconic Fury,
 Blightbolt, Frightful Presence, Gem-Encrusted Hide, Hardened Scales,
 Magic Resistance, Rake, Trample, Wing Buffet.
6 orbs were found.
166 enemies were killed:
 10 barbarians
 21 cave bears
  5 deathknights
  9 druids
 24 earth gnomes
 21 giant rats
 13 hunters
  7 mages
 12 monks
 12 paladins
  9 priests
  6 rogues
  6 shamans
  5 warlocks
  6 warriors


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #95 on: December 11, 2014, 08:44:14 AM »
So in a supreme moment of herp-derpary I realized nearly a year later or so that FTL Advanced Edition was a free upgrade for FTL vanilla. So I'm hoping it's a little more balanced out. I don't think it will be, but I hope. FTL seems to confuse luck-based with roguelike.

EDIT: Darkfire Chasm, urg... if I can get past the first floor I can usually do pretty well, but it's really dependent on how many gnomes are mobbing you at the start and if there are any nearby corridors.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 09:32:33 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Nadir

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #96 on: December 11, 2014, 09:34:09 AM »
I have been playing Desktop Dungeons lately. Very awesome game, you need some mad strats to master it, though. The alpha version is on their site for free. I'm not sure I'd recommend this came at its full price but keep an eye on steam/GOG sales

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #97 on: December 11, 2014, 09:55:32 AM »
Gah, that was unlucky. Somwhow one of the classes got to warp me into the midst of a bunch of ranged enemies, so I got torn to pieces, and I was a red with large stamina, mag res., and hardened scales. :P

I hate it when bad luck just seems to be the deciding factor.

Offline Oniya

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #98 on: December 11, 2014, 10:16:26 AM »
I hate it when bad luck just seems to be the deciding factor.

I remember a time playing the original Rogue that I went down a level and ended up in a monster room.  Wall to wall letters, and I'm sure they spelled out a cuss word or two.  And of course, there was no stair-dancing with that game.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #99 on: December 11, 2014, 10:51:42 AM »
Yep FTL is Slot Machine the Game still. :P

How is it a failing of my combat skill when I'm stuck in a solar flare zone with an unmanned attack drone with a hacking module? :\

EDIT: FTL is no longer welcome in this thread, it's not a roguelike, it's a craps game. DX
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 01:00:08 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Sabby

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #100 on: December 11, 2014, 01:34:11 PM »
Does anyone know any action based Roguelikes? I've been playing Ziggurat, a fun little first person shooter with Roguelike elements to it. The levels are randomly generated, filled with special conditions and trials, alters you can go to for random blessings that can change your next fight, and all the upgrades you get carry over to your next game.

I was desperate for some kind of edge, so I sacrificed almost all of my health to an altar and ended up with infinite Staff energy until I got hit. I had 1 health left. So I go into the next room, the door locks, and dozens and dozens of skeletons start charging after me. So I just held down the trigger and started screaming like I had a minigun with a 6 mile long chain.

...I won too :3

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #101 on: December 11, 2014, 02:02:27 PM »
Rogue Legacy plays like a hardcore platformer and roguelike. It's got the jump slash magic blasting action thing. Kind of like 2D Castlevannia games. Some of the fairy chests (which contain the runes) are mini challenges that usually need a certain build or class.

Offline Sabby

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #102 on: December 11, 2014, 02:05:03 PM »
I went a full week with maybe a half a quarter of a weeks sleep playing Rogue Legacy, and still I only managed to take out the easiest boss. I don't know if I was doing something wrong, or that the game is just that ridiculous, but it was so fun.

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2014, 08:55:26 PM »
Got a Blue win.  Their start was harder than Red's, because of the 10 less hp, but I countered that by fighting over corpses.  The end fight was much easier.  Only needed to use two pearls (a white to stop the shaman from healing wave repeatedly, and a black to get away into the corner while recharging -- still had a couple whites, a green, and a blue left at the end).  Thunderclap is awesome not so much for the damage but for the 3 stun turns.  I used that, followed by Chain Lightning, followed by Breath, then Wing Buffet, then Trample.  Took out some of the bad guys and then I invisoed and ran for better terrain, Biting to heal as necessary.

Some other things I've learned about Drakefire:

1.  This game really isn't about using melee.  I do way better when I play using breath was my only means of attacking.  So when it is loaded, I fight.  When it is recharging, I move away.  Against early bears, for example, one shot may not be enough so I shoot, back up until I reload, then shoot again.

2.  The AI doesn't track you very well when you break line of sight.  So just hugging an outcropping along the wall or rounding a corner is often enough to survive a mob. If you are Blue with Blink, breaking LOS is much easier.

3.  Getting a Stamina as your first boost (if you are not Red) is actually not such a bad idea.  It boosts HP by a good chunk for level 2 and also powers up your breath.  I am starting to go Sta and then Str, rather than just Str all the way. 

4.  There is a way to skip turns!  Using the 5 key on your number pad.  But as Brad Pitt said in World War Z:  "movement is life."  Standing still and fighting = death in this game.  Move to lure enemies to fight where you want to.  Ideally over a corpse farm you've set up earlier or a good LOS break.  And then 5 to make them come to you.

Stats

Blue Great Wyrm
Won in 4054 turns.
Scored 106954 points.
Strength: 22, Stamina: 17, Will: 17.
Abilities gained:
 Bite, Thunderclap, Line Breath, Devour,
 Chain Lightning, Frightful Presence, Gem-Encrusted Hide, Hardened Scales,
 Magic Resistance, Rake, Trample, Wing Buffet.
9 orbs were found.
165 enemies were killed:
 10 barbarians
 27 cave bears
  5 deathknights
 11 druids
 22 earth gnomes
 16 giant rats
  3 hunters
  8 mages
  6 monks
 12 paladins
  6 priests
 12 rogues
 10 shamans
  9 warlocks
  8 warriors


Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #104 on: December 13, 2014, 03:36:52 PM »
Got the White win now.  Still can't seem to get Black.  That does seem to be the weakest color since its highest tier Will and Sta powers are both pretty lousy.  White's max Sta power was very useful.  It does seem that raising Sta instead of Str is a viable path to victory since it makes your hardened scales so good at stopping damage.  At one point I had three or four warriors and death knights bashing on me and was losing only 50 hp at a time.  Time to give Black another try...

Stats for White

White Great Wyrm
Won in 3869 turns.
Scored 106237 points.
Strength: 20, Stamina: 17, Will: 18.
Abilities gained:
 Bite, Line Breath, Deep Breath, Devour,
 Frightful Presence, Gem-Encrusted Hide, Hardened Scales, Whiteout,
 Magic Resistance, Rake, Trample, Wing Buffet.
6 orbs were found.
166 enemies were killed:
  6 barbarians
 29 cave bears
  9 deathknights
 15 druids
 17 earth gnomes
 20 giant rats
  6 hunters
  2 mages
  9 monks
  7 paladins
  9 priests
  7 rogues
 13 shamans
 11 warlocks
  6 warriors




Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #105 on: December 13, 2014, 07:22:54 PM »
Done.  Got the Black win.  It really was the hardest color for me.  Not very tough, doesn't do a lot of damage, and has lousy Will powers.  I ended up going heavy Str and pretty much ignoring Will as much as I could.  Took Wilting as my last power and it was alright.  The key is to use it after you've damaged stuff (with say, Buffet), since it scales to the target's health status.


Black Stats

Black Great Wyrm
Won in 4054 turns.
Scored 109355 points.
Strength: 20, Stamina: 16, Will: 19.
Abilities gained:
 Bite, Horrid Wilting, Line Breath, Deep Breath,
 Devour, Frightful Presence, Gem-Encrusted Hide, Hardened Scales,
 Magic Resistance, Rake, Trample, Wing Buffet.
7 orbs were found.
164 enemies were killed:
  7 barbarians
 27 cave bears
 12 deathknights
 12 druids
 25 earth gnomes
 13 giant rats
  8 hunters
  6 mages
  4 monks
  4 paladins
  7 priests
 11 rogues
  9 shamans
  8 warlocks
 11 warriors


Final Fight

I started off positioned well to hit 4 targets with a line breath, and then Trample/Buffeted.  From there it was alternating between Black Pearls, Biting, and Green Pearls to cut down enemy numbers.  The Death Knights prevented me from positioning properly, but I was able to heal enough with Bite to wear them down.  Wilting was the finisher.


Last adventurer left.  Come're you little snack...





Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #106 on: December 14, 2014, 04:13:34 PM »
So, as a "thank you" to Blythe for introducing me to Drakefire, I went and found another 7-day RL:  PrincessRL

You get to train a princess over the course of a year to be some kind of awesome something or other.  Fighter?  Mage?  Not too sure...  I'm still trying to figure it out, but it seems to have a lot of potential!


Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #107 on: December 14, 2014, 04:25:20 PM »
So, as a "thank you" to Blythe for introducing me to Drakefire, I went and found another 7-day RL:  PrincessRL

You get to train a princess over the course of a year to be some kind of awesome something or other.  Fighter?  Mage?  Not too sure...  I'm still trying to figure it out, but it seems to have a lot of potential!

Ooh, I'll give this a try. The 7 day RL's seem to be interesting.  :D

Re: Drakefire--I agree with your assessment of the Black dragons; they really are the worst to try to get a successful run-through with. The order of easiest to hardest for me was: Red, Blue, Green, White, then Black.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #108 on: December 14, 2014, 06:24:10 PM »
Despite my constant complaints FTL is allowed here, it's just... WHY!? WHY IS IT SO FUN BUT I CAN'T WIN ONE GAME! *Ocular gushing*

EDIT: Anyone who said the Engi cruiser made the game easier needs to be dragged out into the street and flogged (not serious, by the way). >:(
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 09:15:41 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Dhi

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #109 on: December 18, 2014, 11:39:49 AM »
According to Steam, I have

5 hours in FTL
7 in Sword of the Stars: The Pit
27 in The Binding of Isaac
36 in Rogue Legacy (enough to make it impossible to pick back up)
37 in Risk of Rain
84 in Spelunky
285 in Dungeons of Dredmor

Teleglitch and One Way Heroics have gone unplayed so far.

There were some cruder roguelikes I used to play, but I'm having a hard time remembering all of them. There was a lot of the 8 bit Spelunky, Nethack, Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, less of Desktop Dungeons, Doom: The Roguelike and a Nethack clone where you could play as different types of monsters, and very little of Dwarven Fortress, which I never cared for.

I always liked the customization, the sense of discovery and the cipher quality to them where each time you're using your mind to analyze new patterns and information rather than most games where you develop skill through repetition. Now that I'm nominally growed up, I like that I can pick them up for 15 minutes here and there. I cannot dedicate a whole Saturday to playing video games like I once could.

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #110 on: December 23, 2014, 02:01:47 PM »
Another action oriented game with roguelike elements I don't think I've seen mentioned here before is Counter Spy. There is no PC version, but I think you can get it for PS3, PS4, iphone and perhaps Andriod.

I have the iphone version, and it is fun as hell. Its basically a stealth game, with the levels and enemies layed out randomly. It features permadeath, but you get to keep the money you earned along with persistent upgrades and such.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #111 on: December 26, 2014, 02:55:49 PM »
If I ever get a smartphone or PS3 or 4, I'll have to try that out, Luna. ^^ Shame there's not a PC version.

I have been playing Desktop Dungeons lately. Very awesome game, you need some mad strats to master it, though. The alpha version is on their site for free. I'm not sure I'd recommend this came at its full price but keep an eye on steam/GOG sales

I nabbed Desktop Dungeons for half price, and it's pretty addictive. I've heard the alpha and the purchased version differ a lot in gameplay, though--but I've only played the version on Steam as of today.

That game is...terribly deceptive. It says you can just play for 15 minutes, and then 15 minutes later, bam, you know you're going to be on there at least an hour trying dungeons out. I'm going to lose so much time playing this, heh. <3

Offline Torterrable

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #112 on: December 27, 2014, 09:47:36 AM »
ROGUELIKES?!

ROGUELIKES!?

I like roguelikes!

Binding of Isaac is my favorite, as I have over 300 hours between the two games combined. Sunless Sea comes in second, with 120 something...Our Darker Purpose is a pretty fun and dark one, and has great story. I've also got Shattered Planet, which is fun but a bit simple, One Way Heroics, which seems fun though I can't get into it, Runers, which is good though the art is lacking, and Crypt of the Necrodancer, which is just eh.

I've really wanted to try FTL and Desktop Dungeons, though; I've heard they're great, and pretty famous! Has anyone played Dungeons of Dreadmor or Sword of the Stars here? I've wanted to check them out, but I don't know....

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #113 on: December 27, 2014, 09:51:20 AM »
FTL is not a roguelike. It's a slot machine with roguelike elements. >:[

I got the SotS Pit complete on the holiday sale. Need to install it. Tricky thing for me.

I also got Steam Marines and Dungeons of the Endless. :)

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #114 on: December 27, 2014, 10:33:40 AM »
FTL is not a roguelike. It's a slot machine with roguelike elements. >:[

Am forced to agree with Inkidu on this. FTL is fun, although I have no idea why, considering it is also the most infuriating game I've ever played. >_<

I also got Steam Marines and Dungeons of the Endless. :)

Ooh, once you play Dungeon of the Endless, I know I would love to hear about that. I've been curious about that game for a while now.

I've really wanted to try FTL and Desktop Dungeons, though; I've heard they're great, and pretty famous! Has anyone played Dungeons of Dreadmor or Sword of the Stars here? I've wanted to check them out, but I don't know....

Dim linked to a free and legal alpha build up-thread, which might be neat to try out if you are interested in Desktop Dungeons. Haven't played SotS, but I do have Dungeons of Dreadmor. DoD isn't too bad--it's meant to be goofy and lighthearted, and in truth, the difficulty can be scaled down quite a lot. I love the little references in the game and how the monsters all insult your character badly, though. I think one monster told me my father smelt of elderberries or something like that (can't remember if that was it exactly--either way, the monsters are amusing). ::) Very fun--I'd recommend it, especially if it's on sale

Offline Dhi

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #115 on: December 27, 2014, 10:50:47 AM »
The reason I have so many more hours logged in Dungeons of Dredmor than the others is due to the modding community. The Steam Workshop has given it a life of its own. In fact, if I remember right, one of the expansions (the free one) adopted elements from the modding community that were especially brilliant.

Offline Torterrable

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #116 on: December 27, 2014, 05:09:13 PM »
Oh? Yeah, I've heard some bad things about FTL's luck mechanism, so I guess I'll avoid that one for now.

I  own Dungeon of the Endless and have played it a bit. Personally, I didn't enjoy it. The gameplay is pretty good, though, and the character bios are awesome, but the fact remains that I am shitty at resource management and tower defense, both of which are central to DotE's gameplay.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #117 on: December 27, 2014, 05:11:20 PM »
Oh? Yeah, I've heard some bad things about FTL's luck mechanism, so I guess I'll avoid that one for now.

I  own Dungeon of the Endless and have played it a bit. Personally, I didn't enjoy it. The gameplay is pretty good, though, and the character bios are awesome, but the fact remains that I am shitty at resource management and tower defense, both of which are central to DotE's gameplay.
Unless you have a blue option or know the negative outcome intimately don't take any of the events on, especially giant spiders. :\

Things that are random in FTL

Everything but the final boss and your starting ship and crew.

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #118 on: December 27, 2014, 05:16:19 PM »
I think FTL on "Easy" is relatively well balanced and perfectly playable.  On "Normal," however, you can get unwinnable scenarios if the RNGs decide to take a disliking to your crew.  I heard they came out with some kind of update or new version for it, but haven't played it to see if it addresses the balance issues.




Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #119 on: December 27, 2014, 05:20:58 PM »
I think FTL on "Easy" is relatively well balanced and perfectly playable.  On "Normal," however, you can get unwinnable scenarios if the RNGs decide to take a disliking to your crew.  I heard they came out with some kind of update or new version for it, but haven't played it to see if it addresses the balance issues.
Does not, just adds more randomness. :P

If you play FTL on easy (which I'm not belittling at all, I've thought about it at times before I quit playing) the community at large will probably drag you over the coals. The game likes to shame you for playing on easy, too. It locks in your achievements at the difficulty you unlocked them at. :|

I do not like easy-mode shamers. If you provide the difficulty level you don't get to make fun of the people who want to use it.

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #120 on: December 27, 2014, 05:30:38 PM »
If you play FTL on easy (which I'm not belittling at all, I've thought about it at times before I quit playing) the community at large will probably drag you over the coals.

*laughs*  Why would anyone care what the FTL community thinks?


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #121 on: December 27, 2014, 05:42:09 PM »
*laughs*  Why would anyone care what the FTL community thinks?
I'm just saying, if you're ever looking for help just don't admit to playing on easy. More of a friendly warning than anything.

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #122 on: December 27, 2014, 05:55:21 PM »
Thanks for the warning.  I have noticed that a lot of game forums have an overdose of machismo.


Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #123 on: December 27, 2014, 05:59:04 PM »
I do not like easy-mode shamers. If you provide the difficulty level you don't get to make fun of the people who want to use it.

I really like easy mode in games, actually--I can use them to get a feel for and learn a game before trying harder difficulties, FTL aside (which easy difficulty doesn't help with, bleh).

I  own Dungeon of the Endless and have played it a bit. Personally, I didn't enjoy it. The gameplay is pretty good, though, and the character bios are awesome, but the fact remains that I am shitty at resource management and tower defense, both of which are central to DotE's gameplay.

Hmmmm. On the one hand, I'm not bad with tower defense stuff, but ooh, I'm awful at resource management if it's an integral part. I might need to give that a pass. :(

Offline Torterrable

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #124 on: December 27, 2014, 06:03:32 PM »
It's pretty basic resource management, with only four resources and mostly straightforward ways to spend them, but balancing them is nasty business, especially at higher levels. On easy, it's apparently pretty simple, and so long as you play smart, you can end up with nice excesses, but...I've never felt that, especially when time starts to work against you.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #125 on: December 27, 2014, 07:37:40 PM »
Steam Marines is basically Space Hulk, but sheesh, they could have told you how shooting and range work. You can't hit something unless it's generally in the line of tiles ahead of the character. :P

Plus it's totally possible to be absolutely swarmed by bots. I broke open one wall and they came out like metal hornets.

EDIT: Dungeons of the Endless... I don't know... it really seems like a tower-defense game with perma-death. I hate the fact that "Roguelike" is becoming a term for any game with perma-death. :P

I mean it's fun. I just wish the tutorial was better. I guess I should have figured it out, but they could have told me all shit was going to break loose when I took up the crystal. What the hell.

EDIT: Cleared my first floor in Dungeons of the Endless. It's actually got a lot going for it, but I'm not sure Amplitude's love of their own FDIS system is that great, if you can't find a science spot how are you going to get better modules?

EDIT: Something that bugs me about Dungeons of the Endless, is that it gives you no ability to sell modules at all (a game like this really needs the ability to sell them at some kind of refund). It makes the game feel really luck driven? Hey got two divergent paths? Think that it might be good to spend resources here? PFFFT TOTALLY WRONG WAY! LOSER!

A lot of new roguelikes tend to think luck is the defining aspect of difficulty. Luck is important, but it's not the sole aspect of difficulty in a roguelike. If your failure comes down to rotten luck more than mistakes then it's not a roguelike. Roguelikes need to make you feel responsible for your mistakes. So many of the modern ones don't. :P

EDIT: Dungeons of the Endless is making me really doubt my gaming and roguelike skill. Their two difficulties are "too easy" and "Easy" and I have yet to make it above the third floor (of twelve). The game is just not as finely tuned as roguelikes need to be I think. Too... totally pooch-screwy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 06:46:08 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #126 on: July 18, 2015, 02:07:42 PM »
Been a bit since I posted here, but I've bought a roguelike, so I thought it was high-time to return to this thread.

I bought Caves of Qud on Steam; there's a free ASCII version available from the devs. Personally, because of my vision problems, I prefer the tileset version from Steam. I suspect anyone who's marginally fond of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup will like Qud, although personally I feel Qud is a little harsher in terms of skill (but a bit easier when it comes to luck/chance). I think the Steam version is going to get more content than the ASCII free version, though.

It's a sci-fantasy roguelike; I really like it. You get the choice to play a Mutated Human or a True Kin (pure human, essentially). There are a lot of variations in skills, and there's a lot of skill there. You do need to regulate food/water to survive, but it's not too hard. What I really like about it is that depending on mental mutations, it's possible to customize ways to get past enemies in a non-combat manner, which was really fascinating.

My only advice for anyone trying it is to not take the Red Rock quest; it looks suspiciously like a newbie quest, but it isn't. Red Rock is a death trap for early levels. Early folks will want to talk to the tinkery fellow on the left side of the starter town and find him an artifact; that's a much easier thing to do--easier if you start as a True Kin, which get an artifact as part of character creation that you usually won't miss.

I'm still learning it, but I really like the breadth and depth of character generation a lot.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 02:11:54 PM by Sherlock »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #127 on: July 18, 2015, 02:28:15 PM »
The only real roguelike I've been playing lately is Darkest Dungeon. It manages to be difficult without being punishing, which is awesome.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #128 on: July 18, 2015, 02:31:54 PM »
The only real roguelike I've been playing lately is Darkest Dungeon. It manages to be difficult without being punishing, which is awesome.

I've been playing that one, too! I think that it probably has the best atmosphere out of just about any roguelike I've played. And agreed--it's difficult but not overly punishing.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #129 on: July 18, 2015, 02:45:39 PM »
I got one that probably calls itself a roguelike, Interstellaria, but I haven't played it enough to see if it lives up to it yet.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #130 on: July 22, 2015, 06:49:53 PM »
I got one that probably calls itself a roguelike, Interstellaria, but I haven't played it enough to see if it lives up to it yet.

I've seen that one around--I haven't heard that it was billed as a roguelike, though, just as a strategy game?


Update on Caves of Qud:

Oi. It's brutal and painfully unforgiving. There is a learning curve, but I'm finding the learning curve isn't as difficult as Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. That being said, a few techniques are helping me out reasonably. I can usually pinpoint where I go wrong when a character dies on a run, which is helpful. Usually (like 90% of the time) it's my fault when I die, so I don't get too discouraged.

'Sprint' is an ability that speeds you up for a few rounds specifically to run away; it's a godsend when a mob of enemies appears. I use it constantly.

I'm finding that mutants have some advantages that True Kin don't--the mutation Freezing Hands has been really handy early on; you can spam-kill stuff with that passably easily, but most mutations do have a cooldown, so some strategy needs to be employed to use it effectively around mobs.

There's a mental ability that's very useful for those who may struggle alone in combat--'Beguiling.'  It only works on one monster at a time, but if you succeed, that monster becomes an ally who will fight to the death for you--this can be ridiculously helpful early on.

Some of the defects you can take are pretty awesome--there's one called Evil Twin, and when you take that defect the game has a small percentage chance that an evil twin of yourself will spawn when you go to new areas.

Guess whose character named Kimet got killed by eeeevil Kimet? *laughs* Damn evil twin; he got me early on in one run. I should have run away, but I didn't. ^^;
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 07:12:37 PM by Sherlock »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #131 on: January 12, 2016, 09:04:38 AM »
I just got Qud. :3

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #132 on: January 12, 2016, 05:15:30 PM »
I"ll reiterate that Qud can be pretty unforgiving at times--sometimes ragequit levels of unforgiving. It's not a total slot machine, but there's enough randomness that you best keep on your toes. I like it, but I have to really be in the mood to play it nowadays. Oftentimes what looks like a 'newbie' quest is not remotely meant for starting characters, too. I've found that I sometimes have to do a little homework to get an idea of what quests to take and which ones not to. I hope the advice helps and I do hope that you like the game.

I really like the 'flavor' of Qud's world, though I wish I was better at playing the game. I may have to pick it up again some time.

Also, for some reason I can see the ASCII much clearer than I can their actual graphics. I thought tiles were supposed to make things easier to see, not harder. >_<

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #133 on: January 22, 2016, 01:24:27 PM »
I got Dungeons of Dredmore. If you're looking to get into Roguelikes this is the one. It's funny, it's not too hard (actually has levels of difficulty) a good tutorial and a usable Diablo-like interface), but it still has lots of depth to discover. Also it has a god of lutefisk. XD