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Author Topic: Roguelikes  (Read 5218 times)

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Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2013, 10:14:50 AM »
FTL's got no middle ground, you're either winning or you're losing. There's no give and take. Also, it has no problem just bending you over the barrel, which is the hallmark of a roguelike, but usually roguelikes let you run away. In FTL you might as well lose because running away means no scrap, and with the harsh anti-grinding feature you've only got limited time to gather scrap. So basically you've got to rely on the luck of the draw.

Oh come on, what the actual fuck! D:<

I literally started and they put a ship with missiles, burst lasers and an at least level 2 anti-ship drone. WHAT THE FUCK!

THAT'S NOT EVEN BEATABLE! I'm done (which I know is a really hollow promise, but fuck)!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 11:09:35 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Caeli

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2013, 11:17:08 AM »
Can someone here explain what a "roguelike" is? Incidentally, one of my friends mentioned Pixel Dungeon recently and said it was really done for phone app/game, and said that there was one on PC that he wanted to show me because it was really good and he thought I would like it.

(But I don't even know what this genre of game is...!)

Offline consortium11

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2013, 11:23:45 AM »
Can someone here explain what a "roguelike" is? Incidentally, one of my friends mentioned Pixel Dungeon recently and said it was really done for phone app/game, and said that there was one on PC that he wanted to show me because it was really good and he thought I would like it.

(But I don't even know what this genre of game is...!)

Rogue like is literally "like Rogue" which was the most high profile early game in the genre.

As a general rule a roguelike is a combat and inventory management focused (sometimes to the exclusion of plot) RPG generally presented in a simple way based around dungeon crawling with randomly generated dungeons. They're intended to be "hardcore" in the sense that they feature perna-death and are generally very difficult.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2013, 11:24:37 AM »
A key feature is that every level is generated either on the fly, or as you enter the level.  Some of them even redo the levels if you leave and come back.  As a result, it's literally a new game every time you play. 

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2013, 11:54:50 AM »

Offline Caeli

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2013, 11:58:43 AM »
Ah, I get it!

Thanks for the explanations and link. :D

Offline Oniya

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 12:05:31 PM »
I was particularly fond of Chocobo's Dungeon 2 (you can't get number 1 in the States as far as I know).

Offline Caeli

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2013, 12:15:20 PM »
I really liked Diablo II (even though it wasn't a 'true' Roguelike with permadeath), and I've been curious about trying out Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. xD I played a trial version of it and really enjoyed the concept.

Offline Sel Nar

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 01:41:48 PM »
in An earlier post, I suggested Rogue legacy as a 'Pseudo' Roguelike, in that the game is primarily skill-based; you go into a randomly-generated castle and attending areas, make gold, kill monsters, and, when you die, your heir uses your gold to upgrade his/her stats via expanding the family manor, and/or getting new weapons via found blueprints within the dungeon. There's no inventory management, and there's some rather amusing traits, such as Alektorophobia, which turns all the food in the dungeon (normally 10% heal) into headless, plucked, roast chickens that run about, and you need to clobber with your weapon to kill them.

That's one of around 20+ traits and your heirs can have up to 2 traits each. Good, solid fun, though some classes lose effectiveness as you go into new game +

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2013, 09:46:04 AM »
FTL is really beginning to simply piss me off. Not in the way roguelikes normally do. There's just no sense of mastery. I had one of my best games ever. I jumped to a civilian sector (generally the easiest going sector possible) and the first fight I get into is just so powerful I didn't stand a chance. They had bombs, a ton of lasers, a teleporter. WTF. My best possible equipped ship and it gets shredded like I hadn't done a fucking thing!

TOO MUCH LUCK! D:<

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2013, 10:37:18 AM »
I recommend Crawl Stone Soup.  There is a tiles version that looks pretty nice.  Gameplay is well balanced and it is actively maintained.  You can play online as well, and compete in tournaments.


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2013, 12:12:48 PM »
I recommend Crawl Stone Soup.  There is a tiles version that looks pretty nice.  Gameplay is well balanced and it is actively maintained.  You can play online as well, and compete in tournaments.
Doesn't sound very serious. I have a hard time taking a lot of roguelike games seriously. Since the consequences of play are so brutal (or sadistic) the atmosphere of the game has to take itself just as seriously.

Also, FTL makes me want to never fund a Kickstarter ever. If that's what people's money bought they need to get a refund. The randomness is just sadistic, mean, and petty. You've got to have a perfect run. Luck just has to come down on your side every time.

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2013, 12:36:59 PM »
Doesn't sound very serious. I have a hard time taking a lot of roguelike games seriously. Since the consequences of play are so brutal (or sadistic) the atmosphere of the game has to take itself just as seriously.

The game is pretty serious, actually.  It's not NetHack.  The development team strives to maintain the spirit of rogue--no grinding, decisions have consequences, no "unfair" deaths, hard as heck--and I think they've succeeded.

Offline Blythe

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2013, 12:38:11 PM »
I recommend Crawl Stone Soup.  There is a tiles version that looks pretty nice.  Gameplay is well balanced and it is actively maintained.  You can play online as well, and compete in tournaments.

I might try this one out; I've been meaning to try out a roguelike.

Offline Aleph

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2013, 02:58:24 AM »
The game is pretty serious, actually.  It's not NetHack.  The development team strives to maintain the spirit of rogue--no grinding, decisions have consequences, no "unfair" deaths, hard as heck--and I think they've succeeded.

I second Cycle's call, Crawl is a really good RL as well.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2013, 10:28:26 AM »
So I got to the final boss of FTL

My ultimate verdict. Terrible game, relies way too much on luck, and it's only cheapened by the fact the final boss basically breaks all the rules and due to the random nature of the game can actually spawn in a sector where you can't actually reach him to beat him in any shade of the word reasonably. I could have stomached a tough final boss but it gets so many cheats that it can kill the best ship in two salvos (i.e. firing all its weapons at you not really unified).

I guess I'll try Dungeon Craw Stone Soup next.

EDIT: Been going through the tutorials at a leisurely pace, but they need to tweak the Gods and Religion one. I follow all the instruction and I'm dying. Normally not a problem, but it's a tutorial. :L

EDIT: Going to soften my verdict on FTL. I should not type out of anger, but if you play it be prepared to knuckle down on how frustrating and random it feels. Also Dungeon Crawl is pretty good. I picked human hunter, but it's got a lot of species to play as.

EDIT: First death in dungeon crawl was not as satisfying as it should have been. Got my character to level nine and just ran into a tough but otherwise unremarkable orc. You kind of expect more of your deaths in a roguelike. I killed the wizard, his lackies and this orc just shows up with a great mace and put the last nail in. Also I find the gender-neutral language really dull.

EDIT: Well, that wasn't exactly what I'd call fair or balanced. Second level of the dungeon and this extreme threat/unique hero named Sigmund comes out of nowhere and crushes my character before she can run back to the stairs. Reeeeeeeeeeal balanced. -__-;

EDIT: Okay this is absurd. This Sigmund guy keeps showing up and slaughtering my characters! I mean. I'm used to dying in a roguelike, it's not fun, but it gives it a sense of verisimilitude, but come on! There's no hope of me beating this guy, and if he sees you you're dead. You're so low-level there's just nothing you can do. It's not even RNG hits and misses. Here's this guy and you're going to die. Maybe I just don't fucking get it. Maybe I should just give up the genre.

EDIT: Of course, I go with a bog-standard sword and board warrior just stabbing everything with a trident with reckless abandon and have yet to die. I mean my Tengu (bird-person) can fly and I haven't even been trying. :P
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 09:26:15 PM by Inkidu »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2013, 12:23:42 PM »
Anyone know of any other good free ones?

Offline Cycle

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2013, 01:21:31 PM »
EDIT: Okay this is absurd. This Sigmund guy keeps showing up and slaughtering my characters! I mean. I'm used to dying in a roguelike, it's not fun, but it gives it a sense of verisimilitude, but come on! There's no hope of me beating this guy, and if he sees you you're dead. You're so low-level there's just nothing you can do. It's not even RNG hits and misses. Here's this guy and you're going to die. Maybe I just don't fucking get it. Maybe I should just give up the genre.

Not all race and class combination are the same strength.  Try a Hill Orc or Minotaur Gladiator.  Also, focus your skills on one or two at a time, not everything.  Start with offense, then defense.  So in the case of these two combos, focus on your polearm skill until it is like 6-8. 

As for Sigmund, that goes to understanding when to retreat.  You are never going to get to a point where your character can beat everything, all the time.  There will always be something that can kill you.  You can die on the end of a 15 rune run, with a maxed out character.  So you need to be careful, and learn when to retreat, or use a consumable.  Sigmund--and worse, Grinder--are NPCs that you should simply run from.  Just retreat, go around the corner.  Go down or up a set of stairs and come back later, when you have a few more levels under your belt.  Use a Fog Scroll, Blink, summon a rat, drink an Inviso potion, zap a Confusion wand, use a god power.  There are ways to cope with everything in Crawl. 

I suggest you use the KnowledgeBots at the main site to learn about new NPCs and monsters.  Good luck.


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2013, 01:38:18 PM »
Yeah, but the guy is obviously way too powerful for level two of the dungeon. :P

It really seems like an oversight on such an anti-grind focused game that generally prides itself on being fairer than most roguelikes.

EDIT: Almost killed a golin or something named Pikal (or close to it). Popped open a scroll of fear, but I missed it by one hit. :P

That's a roguelike, not something so obviously overpowered I had no chance of beating it or running away. He was literally faster than my Tengu and humans. :\

EDIT: That was funny! Drop down a shaft into a horde of orcs and other things. That one was my fault. I thought I could take them all because I had a scroll of fear and several buff spells. Should have used my scroll of teleport though.

I took several with me though.

EDIT: I think my problem with Crawl is that the leveling up system for your skills is so nebulous. So I'm wondering if it's best to put low or no values into the ones you'll use enough to level up, and train in the rest. Honestly though, unless yo lean to just check in periodically you're never going to know when it "reaches a new whole number". I get more is better.However, I have no frame of reference for when it's trained enough that I could start something else.

EDIT: Monks suck, unilaterally. :P
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:48:39 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Heaven Sent Blossom

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2013, 06:12:16 AM »
Tales of Maj'Eyal just got it's release on Steam. It's an award winning roguelike with a pretty nice interface, vast tile set,  comprehensive mouse driven controls as well as traditional controls, an overworld map alongside quests and a full story and bags of unlockable stuff and character options as you level.
The game is designed to cut out the grind and farm, leaving behind the lean meat of a sharp tactical combat system and interesting customization choices.

Worth a look if you're still down for more roguelikes.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2013, 06:18:35 AM »
Tales of Maj'Eyal just got it's release on Steam. It's an award winning roguelike with a pretty nice interface, vast tile set,  comprehensive mouse driven controls as well as traditional controls, an overworld map alongside quests and a full story and bags of unlockable stuff and character options as you level.
The game is designed to cut out the grind and farm, leaving behind the lean meat of a sharp tactical combat system and interesting customization choices.

Worth a look if you're still down for more roguelikes.
Is it free? Because it used to be free. :P

Nope, answered my own question.

I did get the free 1.1 version of 4 TOME. So I'm wondering what the differences are between the free version and the paid.

EDIT: ToME is pretty straight forward, but I'm still not clear on a few things. Like other than inscriptions what's the point of using category points to up actual categories? I took the tutorial but it was kind of vague. I'll probably run through it one more time to see if something clicks.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 05:28:13 PM by Inkidu »

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2013, 07:34:05 PM »
I've been enjoying Sword Of The Stars; The Pit quite a lot. Very worth the price, in my opinion.

Offline Null

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2013, 04:45:46 AM »
As a kid, I put so much time and effort into the Pokemon mystery dungeon series. Fantastic rougelike ( don't get the 3ds one. That one is crap. I recommend explorers of time. )

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2013, 09:19:27 AM »
I've been enjoying Sword Of The Stars; The Pit quite a lot. Very worth the price, in my opinion.
Eh, I'm wary about the SotS franchise since I blew all that money on SotS II. Even after a year of fixes it was just a convoluted mess that added in stuff just to be obscure and more difficult. It added things like feasibility studies, which were a terrible idea. Yeah, I'm going to to devote time and resources to research if I can even research a technology, and not even a good technology, just not one I might have access too. Don't even get into the mission system.

Anyway, I don't have much money at all for entertainment after FTL.

Also, that's a big file size. 1.1 gigs. Whoo.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 09:20:50 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Caeli

Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2013, 12:47:48 PM »
I've really been getting into Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.  I tried out the (unofficial) Android port last night and, while it's not as easy to use as on the desktop (where you can use keyboard shortcuts), after the initial learning curve of figuring out where things are, it's got the same kind of addictive, "I'm going to win this time!" feeling.

My phone screen was too small to play comfortably, though, so I might try it on my tablet and see how that is.