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Author Topic: Autism or Affectation?  (Read 10148 times)

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Offline Sabby

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2014, 10:21:57 AM »
You just have to accept that you have limitations and deal with them. Pills don't make you more social, or more flexible or whatever it is that makes up your Asperger. Pills won't do anything to help with those symptoms.

Of course if pills help for you, who am I to tell you not to take them they just shouldn't be taken or considered as the ultimate cure or the only thing that can make you feel better.

I think you need to have a close read of your posts so far, because they're very inconsistent. I'm having trouble forming a proper response. You say the pills can't help, but then go on to say they can, just not in ridiculous ways?


Offline DashenkaTopic starter

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2014, 10:24:59 AM »
Pills can't help cure anything. Pills can help mask the underlying problem, which for some/most people is enough :)

In your case, the pills make you feel better but they do not cure it. So in the long run they don't do anything other than make you feel better right?


Offline Sabby

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2014, 10:28:23 AM »
Am I to understand that you have completely abandoned the anti-medication stance you held in your first post?

Offline DashenkaTopic starter

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2014, 10:30:47 AM »
I am anti medication, but that doesn't mean others should be as well. I think medications are a fraud and just a way to get into your wallet and the easiest way to keep the patients happy. If people feel that medication is helping them, who am I to say they can't take it. :)

Wish I had those powers.

Offline Sabby

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2014, 10:33:33 AM »
I am anti medication, but that doesn't mean others should be as well. I think medications are a fraud and just a way to get into your wallet and the easiest way to keep the patients happy. If people feel that medication is helping them, who am I to say they can't take it. :)

Wish I had those powers.

What powers? The powers to be helped by medication, or the powers to make people not take medication?

Offline Chrystal

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2014, 10:34:37 AM »
Uh,' scuse me?

Please can we all step back a little?

First off, Sabby, thank you for not jumping down my throat... I was expressing an opinion to which I am entitled.

The fact that anti-depressants can mask the cause of depression is, inm my inexpert opinion, dangerous, in much the same way that painkillers can mask cancer.

There are two issues here: one is doctors prescribing medication incorrectly, or misdiagnosing. That is always going to be a sensitive issue.

The other is whether or not taking drugs can help in treatment of a psychological illness.

The first issue I think we should step away from. I only raised it as my given reason for no wishing to take drugs for my condition.

The second, the answer is clearly, yes. Taking drugs, under the correct circumstances, can be very beneficial to a patient.

Please can we leave it there before this gets too heated? This thread is all about us aspies helping each other, not about getting heated over something that was an asside anyway.

Offline Sabby

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2014, 10:36:41 AM »
I'm... not getting heated :/ I'm asking that Dashenka clarify some things, because I'm having trouble understand her position. My question was an honest one.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 10:38:32 AM by Sabby »

Offline DashenkaTopic starter

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2014, 10:40:16 AM »
What powers? The powers to be helped by medication, or the powers to make people not take medication?

The second :)

My position is that I think medication is mostly given to people to who don't need it, thus making it a fraude and I don't take medication for that reason and the reason I gave before. When medication helps you, by all means please take them.

Offline Chrystal

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2014, 10:44:53 AM »
I'm... not getting heated :/ I'm asking that Dashenka clarify some things, because I'm having trouble understand her position. My question was an honest one.

Okay... well, reading back over the posts, and given that everyone who posts to this thread has some communication difficulties, I would appreciate it, please if you could both say you weren't meaning any offencet o the other and that you have not taken any offence at the other's words?

This is a great thread, I recently directed another Aspie here, because he didn't know there were so many of us. I really would hate for staff to step in and lock it because a debate was even perceived to be getting out of hand, even if it was not.

Please?

Offline DashenkaTopic starter

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2014, 10:47:19 AM »
I do admit I got a bit riled up with the medication things but I mean no harm. I'm the only harmless Russian in the world :D

What works for some, might not work for others so if you feel medication is working for you, I'm happy for you.

Offline Sabby

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2014, 10:49:20 AM »
Thank you for clarifying. I would ask in what way you wish you could stop people taking meds (there are two ways I could construed that one) but I don't want to take this discussion much further while in this thread. Apologies for the derail.

I would appreciate it, please if you could both say you weren't meaning any offencet o the other and that you have not taken any offence at the other's words?

Of course I never meant offense.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 10:52:24 AM by Sabby »

Offline DashenkaTopic starter

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2014, 10:50:39 AM »
Cause if I had the powers to make people stop taking medication I would also have the powers to stop people from fighting and discriminate and the world would generally be a better place to live in.

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Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2014, 10:51:37 AM »
As I am on my phone, I'll keep this short:

I don't take any meds for any symptoms.  They always caused me to seem braindead to everyone and I had to stop.  In general, I am better off without meds.

Offline Chrystal

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2014, 10:52:26 AM »
Thank you both for that.

Now kiss and make up?

Or at least shake hands....

Thanks...

Offline Sabby

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2014, 10:53:25 AM »
Cause if I had the powers to make people stop taking medication I would also have the powers to stop people from fighting and discriminate and the world would generally be a better place to live in.

That was one of the two conclusions I came to. Glad that was the one. I think you can guess what the other was xD

Offline DashenkaTopic starter

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2014, 10:55:55 AM »
The other one would be communism :D

 :-*

Offline Chrystal

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2014, 11:01:28 AM »
And, having just got things back where we are all friends again, I'm going to throw this in...

Placebo!

It is totally possible to take a tablet hat you think is a powerful drug, but in fact is just chalk, and have it do wonderful things, simply because you believe it will.

Equally the reverse is rue. If someone tells you the drugs you are taking are a placebo, they will do jack-shit, even ifthey have some active ingredients!

I know this because my dad had MS. He was prescribed some pills by his doctor, that actually seemed to help for a while, and then he saw a TV program on the Placebo effect and decided they were a placebo and they stopped working!

I have no idea if they were real or a placebo, but to this day I blame the BBC for dad's down-turn!

The other one would be communism :D

 :-*

Da tovarich

Offline LisztesFerenc

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2014, 02:03:33 AM »
And, having just got things back where we are all friends again, I'm going to throw this in...

Placebo!

It is totally possible to take a tablet hat you think is a powerful drug, but in fact is just chalk, and have it do wonderful things, simply because you believe it will.

Equally the reverse is rue. If someone tells you the drugs you are taking are a placebo, they will do jack-shit, even ifthey have some active ingredients!

I know this because my dad had MS. He was prescribed some pills by his doctor, that actually seemed to help for a while, and then he saw a TV program on the Placebo effect and decided they were a placebo and they stopped working!

I have no idea if they were real or a placebo, but to this day I blame the BBC for dad's down-turn!

  I'm sorry to hear to hear that, I hope your dad gets better. However I think you are misunderstanding the placebo effect:

  1. Placebo can work even when the recipient knows they are receiving a placebo, a medically inert sugar pill. I believe the theory is that the ritual of being given something by a doctor can have beneficial affects on us: http://healthland.time.com/2010/12/27/placebos-work-even-if-you-know-theyre-fake-but-how/

  2. Thus the idea that being told that real medicine is a placebo negating its effect whilst possible is most likely going to be a rare outcome. I'm not sure as I cannot find a study on the idea. Nocebo, the idea of a medically inert substance making you worse, presumably through the negative attitude of the recipient or administrator, has been documented.

  On the subject, one interesting thing to note is that a study found that a certain brand of pain killer outperformed placebo in the double blind test, when subjects were given either the painkiller or a sugar pill. However, they had to have little to no effect when the recipients were not told that the medication was a painkiller.

Offline DashenkaTopic starter

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2014, 03:33:01 AM »
I think what Chrystal meant to say is that the mind is stronger than any medicine. If you believe the medicin you are getting is helping you, it will help and if you don't believe it will happen, it won't. And I guess that is true, which is why I don't take medicin.

Offline LisztesFerenc

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2014, 03:59:49 AM »
  There is a lot of truth to that sentiment, but as is usually the case the truth is more complicated. The placebo effect is far more complicated than what it initially appears to be, which plenty of weird effects. The article I linked goes on to talk about heroine addicts, and how they will not get a placebo high, even if they believe they are buying the drug.

Offline Chrystal

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2014, 04:49:52 AM »
First of all, LisztesFerenc, you weren't to know, but I'm 50 this year and my dad died about 20 years ago... So, thanks for the thought, but it isn't going to happen. Well, not unless we get a zombie-apocalypse... and anyway he was cremated.

There is no need to apologise, by the way. As I said, you weren't to know.

Second, I find the placebo effect to be fascinating. It's almost a sort of hypnosis, in the way it works by suggesting to the mind that this sugar pill is going to remove your pain. There was an episode of M*A*S*H where they ran out of morphine, and so they gave the patients placebos. Obviously M*A*S*H is fiction, but it is based very soundly upon fact, and it wouldn't surprise me if something like that had actually happened, with the results recorded in the show.

Anyway, the human mind is a strange and wonderful place, and can be very scary at times too. Mine terrifies me at times... lol!

There is no real scientific evidence to support many of the things people say that the human mind can do, but if you know someone really well, you can tell exactly what they are thinking and feeling. I've never met any twins, but the ability to finish each others' sentences is supposed to be quite disconcerting...

So, yes, the power of suggestion. Some people it works on, some people it doesn't. I don't know if I've ever been hypnotised. It would be interesting to find out....

Offline LisztesFerenc

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2014, 05:07:28 AM »
First of all, LisztesFerenc, you weren't to know, but I'm 50

  Interesting. I'm young, therefor I assumed the person I was talking with is also young. Ego centric bias I believe.

Second, I find the placebo effect to be fascinating. It's almost a sort of hypnosis, in the way it works by suggesting to the mind that this sugar pill is going to remove your pain. There was an episode of M*A*S*H where they ran out of morphine, and so they gave the patients placebos. Obviously M*A*S*H is fiction, but it is based very soundly upon fact, and it wouldn't surprise me if something like that had actually happened, with the results recorded in the show.

  Its possible, especially in the time M*A*S*H was made, but placebo pain killers have been noted in studies to increase pain. Happened to 15% of those taking the sugar pill in one example. Furthermore, nowadays any licensed pain killer will need to have out performed a placebo in a double blind test before it reaches the shelf, but then again Prozac was recently proven to be no more effective than sugar pill barring extreme cases of depression, so its not a perfect system.

Anyway, the human mind is a strange and wonderful place, and can be very scary at times too. Mine terrifies me at times... lol!

  You're probably doing something wrong if your mind doesn't scare every now and then.

Offline Chrystal

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2014, 05:43:41 AM »
I was going to post this here but got distracted by the medication/anti-medication debate.

I mentioned that I had recently pointed someone at his thread, who didn't realise there were any other Aspies here on E. In the process I posted this little homily, which I thought was quite deep and potentially helpful:

Everyone thinks they are alone. It's crushing. And then we find others who have what we have, and suddenly the world seems that little bit brighter. We are not alone, there are people who have what we have. We are all in this together, we can help each other, support each other. Even as we write smutty stories to get away from our everyday lives, we can become a community within a community, a group of people who share a common interest of adult role-playing on-line and a common bond of Asperger's Syndrome.

This thread, started by Dashenka because she felt alone and upset at being diagnosed as an Aspie, is probably going to help a lot of people on E. I certainly hope it does.

If someone says to you "I have Asperger's Syndrome", point them here. Let's all celebrate our abnormality together! *giggles*

Just as an asside, does anyone else find that roleplaying on-line like this, and chatting to people we are never going to meet face to face, helps?

What I mean is, before I started on-line rp-ing, I would NEVER have been able to work retail. Walking up to someone and saying "Hello, how can i help?" is actually really scary. 90% of people are really nice, but there's that 10% who aren't. There's the dissatisfied customer who has come in to complain, there's the arrogant bleep who wants what he wants and gets shirty when told he can't have it because he'll burn his house down, there's the gypsies who "just want a bit of pipe", and while you're getting the bit of pipe, the rest of them are pinching stuff off the shelves...

Well, that job is over for me now, and I won't be going back there, but the principal applies. Dealing with people day to day is hard, because I have no idea how they are going to react and it scares the shit out of me. Dealing with situations in a safe, fictional setting that are far more exreme really helps, in so far as I can, for example,  practice having my character stand up for herself, and see what happens. If i works, I can think about how it worked in the RP when confronted with a real life situation, and maybe apply some of the same principals. If it doesn't I know not to try it...!

No, I'm not saying hat we should reat roleplaying as practice for real life, but what I am saying is that meeting people and making friends in this safe environment - and it is safe! - gives the confidence to attempt it in real life, dealing with fictional people who want to hurt us fictionally, and overcoming them can give confidence to deal with real people who want to get heir own way.

But most important, i think, is the fact that everyone on his site is beautiful in the eyes of their friends. No matter if you're a fat ugly 50 year old dyke in real life - Did I say you? I meant me! - on hear everyone sees me as young, attractive and sexy, and that is a real confidence booster!

Offline lovelylilT

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2014, 07:25:15 AM »
You are beautiful, Chrystal. :-) I learn more about a person's beauty from their words, than their appearance!

Offline Chrystal

Re: Autism or Affectation?
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2014, 09:46:55 AM »
You are beautiful, Chrystal. :-) I learn more about a person's beauty from their words, than their appearance!

Says the woman in the hideous halloween mask.... *snigger*

Thanks, darling. I love you too. *drags you off  to a quiet corner for some steamy girl-on-girl action*