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Author Topic: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."  (Read 4651 times)

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Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2012, 06:32:26 PM »
There I must respectfully disagree.  I'm capable of being pretty cynical, but even so I refuse to accept the idea that looking out for oneself and looking out for everyone are mutually exclusive.

We the People.. that sums its right there. WE. Not ME. I am tired of seeing too much damn self-centered selfishiness dressed up as 'downsizing government' or 'self-regulating business practices'. I lost most of my retirement package in DAYS because it was soooo much better to reward greed and malfeasance rather than tending to the client and customer.


Every man is your brother.. we all enter and leave the world the same way.. only in how we live and interact do we leave a telling mark on the world.
By rushing to do anything but stand on the sidelines and declare that my (or your) actions do not matter... I diminish myself and everyone I could help.

Offline Hemingway

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2012, 06:39:46 PM »
We the People.. that sums its right there. WE. Not ME. I am tired of seeing too much damn self-centered selfishiness dressed up as 'downsizing government' or 'self-regulating business practices'. I lost most of my retirement package in DAYS because it was soooo much better to reward greed and malfeasance rather than tending to the client and customer.


Every man is your brother.. we all enter and leave the world the same way.. only in how we live and interact do we leave a telling mark on the world.
By rushing to do anything but stand on the sidelines and declare that my (or your) actions do not matter... I diminish myself and everyone I could help.

But that would be socialism.

Which is sort of the mantra of the so-called conservatives. ( I say so-called because there's nothing conservative about their radical capitalist ideology )

I think that's related to another problem that's very evident in the US: People voting against their own interests. It takes Machiavellian cunning to get people who live in poverty or very near to it to vote for politicians who line the pockets of the wealthy by denying basic rights to those very poor people, in the guise of "freedom".

Offline Oniya

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2012, 06:44:56 PM »
We the People.. that sums its right there. WE. Not ME. I am tired of seeing too much damn self-centered selfishiness dressed up as 'downsizing government' or 'self-regulating business practices'. I lost most of my retirement package in DAYS because it was soooo much better to reward greed and malfeasance rather than tending to the client and customer.


Every man is your brother.. we all enter and leave the world the same way.. only in how we live and interact do we leave a telling mark on the world.
By rushing to do anything but stand on the sidelines and declare that my (or your) actions do not matter... I diminish myself and everyone I could help.

But that would be socialism.

Which is sort of the mantra of the so-called conservatives. ( I say so-called because there's nothing conservative about their radical capitalist ideology )

I think that's related to another problem that's very evident in the US: People voting against their own interests. It takes Machiavellian cunning to get people who live in poverty or very near to it to vote for politicians who line the pockets of the wealthy by denying basic rights to those very poor people, in the guise of "freedom".

Oddly enough, I was listening to Egberto Willis's show this weekend, and apparently the Mormons are really big on this 'helping your brothers in need' thing.  I have to wonder how that jibes with Romney's corporatist 'Let's make a profit!' leanings.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2012, 06:52:15 PM »
I think that's related to another problem that's very evident in the US: People voting against their own interests. It takes Machiavellian cunning to get people who live in poverty or very near to it to vote for politicians who line the pockets of the wealthy by denying basic rights to those very poor people, in the guise of "freedom".

And this is another reason I'm relocating: the sheer number of lumpenproles who want to be the anal servants of the Forbes 400.  Let them get bar-coded and processed.

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2012, 02:25:51 AM »
I don't.  I'm in the process of moving my financial life offshore so that when this place falls apart and the goose-step becomes mandatory, I'll be somewhere far-off that no one cares about.

If you're wrong about the conspiracy theories, then you likely won't need to flee the country suddenly. But having your wealth in something other than American dollars might be risky, since foreign currencies tend to fluctuate so much more wildly than the US dollars, and might crash hard if the US dollar drops takes an unexpected turn. On the other hand, you could always invest in something else I suppose. You could always buy gold... and hope that the price of gold isn't artificially inflated like real estate was because of gold investing being pushed so hard by the hardcore conservative media like Fox News or Clear Channel (which owns Premiere Radio Networks, the syndication company responsible for bringing Coast to Coast AM to the nation every night, and is probably responsible for the strange right wing bent Coast to Coast took in recent years, which may be why Art Bell, the creator of Coast to Coast decided to leave Coast to Coast).

If you're right... gods, if you're right, the NSA already knows all about you and has you on The List. You've been running around talking about The Truth. Do you think that Elliquiy's membership wall can stop the NSA data collection efforts? Oh, wait. Never mind, we're on the PUBLIC side of the membership wall. They wouldn't even need to get in to see what you've written. They could have you traced back to your physical address in seconds, with satellites watching you if they wanted. If your ideas about the Bilderbergs are right and they control the government, and they start locking down the country to send people off to the FEMA death camps, well, I'm afraid they've already got your number because you made the mistake of talking about it on the internet, where information never, ever goes away.

On the other hand, if the conspiracy theories are right, that there is some shadow government secretly controlling the world governments, what makes you think that They'd let people talk about it on Coast to Coast AM, The History Channel, and so forth? Not unless it was all misinformation. Maybe... just maybe... The Bilderberg Group is exactly what they say that they are*, and instead, the secret leaders of the world is some cabal we've never heard of before, a cabal that operates out of black airplanes out of Area 52 in the Arizona desert. And maybe they're not in league with the Reptilian Grey alien menace, but are actually the thralls of the real Illuminati, the leprechauns that live in the center of the hollow earth.


* A group of world and business leaders that get together annually to talk about Big Things. They helped The West form NATO and win the Cold War. Unlike what many conspiracy theorists claim, the Bilderbergs aren't actually part of a cabal of Jewish bankers trying to take over the world.

Here's some links:
http://www.adl.org/rumors/bilderberg.asp
http://wonkette.com/474167/a-brief-guide-to-the-evil-2012-bilderberg-conference-in-virginia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group



EDIT: And you know what? I almost wish the Jews WOULD take over the world. They're nice people. They make tasty food. And they don't shove their religion down other people's throats. Hell, they don't even care what religion you are if you aren't Jewish. It would be a nicer thing than the theocracy that the GOP is trying to turn this country into. I, for one, welcome our new Jewish overlords. Shalom!  XD
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 02:37:00 AM by Stattick »

Offline Chris Brady

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2012, 05:22:49 AM »
EDIT: And you know what? I almost wish the Jews WOULD take over the world. They're nice people. They make tasty food. And they don't shove their religion down other people's throats. Hell, they don't even care what religion you are if you aren't Jewish. It would be a nicer thing than the theocracy that the GOP is trying to turn this country into. I, for one, welcome our new Jewish overlords. Shalom!  XD

They sorta do.  I mean, they created, and for the most part, still run Hollywood.

And I think Bilderberg is a Jewish last name...  Most anything ending with 'berg' is, i've been told.  Although I have no idea who they are.

Offline Oniya

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2012, 06:26:11 AM »
'Berg' as a name-suffix, comes from the German word for 'mountain' (the Berghof was a fortress in the mountains).  A lot of European Jews have Germanic roots because, well, a lot of them fled from Germany and Central Europe is the birthplace of the Germanic languages.  If you understand German and happen across someone speaking Yiddish, you'll get about three words in four (something I did once to the chagrin of my mother-in-law's neighbor.)

If you want to go all-out, Bilderberg would mean 'picture mountain', or possibly 'mountain like a picture'.  [/linguistic hijack]

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2012, 06:36:36 AM »
'Berg' as a name-suffix, comes from the German word for 'mountain' (the Berghof was a fortress in the mountains).  A lot of European Jews have Germanic roots because, well, a lot of them fled from Germany and Central Europe is the birthplace of the Germanic languages.  If you understand German and happen across someone speaking Yiddish, you'll get about three words in four (something I did once to the chagrin of my mother-in-law's neighbor.)

If you want to go all-out, Bilderberg would mean 'picture mountain', or possibly 'mountain like a picture'.  [/linguistic hijack]

It's also a common name end element in Swedish (with the same word for mountain). Many middle-class family names formed here in the 19th century used words and stems that derived from nature: Bergfors ("mountain + rapids"), Lundberg ("grove + mountain"), Nordbeck/Nordström ("north + stream of water") and so on.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2012, 11:19:56 AM »
British Admiral Mountbatten's family name was originally Battenberg.  It was changed, I believe, during WWI because of the feelings against Germany.

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2012, 01:35:47 PM »
They sorta do.  I mean, they created, and for the most part, still run Hollywood.

And I think Bilderberg is a Jewish last name...  Most anything ending with 'berg' is, i've been told.  Although I have no idea who they are.

If you'd read the links I posted, you see that the Bilderberg Group took their name from the first hotel they had their first annual meeting in. So, it was the name of a hotel.

Also, throw out everything you think you know about Jewish last names. The traditional Jewish naming convention was the same as the Arabic convention. So a person might be known as Adam, son of Isaac, son of Ishmael... and they could keep going on if they needed to.

The reason many Jews have German last names today, is because at one time, Germany was one of the most accepting of Jews, and one of the nicest places in Europe to live if you were Jewish. So, they had a high population of Jews. Germany was the first country in Europe to insist that everyone have a last name. The traditional Jewish system was considered to be lacking, so every Jew in the country had to take a last name. Most took one that related to their profession such as Silverstein, Schwartz, or Schultz.

Later, Germany went through an antisemitic phase, where it was not a nice place to live if you were Jewish. Many Jews left the country to move to other places where they could have a better life. They took their last names with them, since having last names was the thing that everyone was doing. (Later, Germany became a nice place to live if you're Jewish again. Like most European countries, antisemitism was a thing that came and went, like the tides.)

There are plenty of Jews that have last names that are English, Spanish, Italian, or any other nationality that you can think of, because they happened to live in those places instead of Germany when they were made to adopt European style last names.

Offline Oniya

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2012, 11:26:02 AM »
Am I an awful Facebooker for pointing out when someone is clinging to the candidate that will trample on their personal activist hot-buttons?  There's a woman on my feed, who is constantly posting things like 'Has Obama gotten unemployment down to 5.4% yet?  SHARE if you think Obama has failed!'  Now, anyone with half a brain can see that unemployment isn't below 5.4%.  Of course, anyone paying attention can see that Congress has shot down every jobs bill that's gone before them, including the one for U.S. Veterans, so the question isn't a fair one.

Well, this woman is very vocal about Native American issues.  I think one of the reasons she friended me is because of my name on Facebook, which was given to me by a follower of the Cree Path (learned it from his adoptive grandmother, who was full-blood).  I - ah - happened to find a link about what Paul Ryan's budget would mean to 'Indian Country' on a Native American site.  I sort of plopped it on my Wall.  *looks innocent, halo gets tangled on the horns*

Offline Serephino

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2012, 03:28:45 PM »
Things like where this conversation is going really frustrate me.  The Forbes 400 is not the problem, but a symptom.  The problem is apathy!  The 1% are outnumbered by the 99% 99-1.  If we were on a battlefield and had those numbers, the 1% would piss themselves and run for the hills.  They run things only because we let them.  They run things because of people who spout the theories, but are content to sit behind that computer screen and say it's hopeless so they're going to continue to just sit there until it gets too bad, then they will run.

Things do look pretty hopeless, but I refuse to just sit here and be a pushover.  When big companies screw me over I am a major pain.  I am just one person so they give me what I want to shut me up and move on as usual.  But... what do you think would happen if everyone fought against being screwed as hard as I do?  It wouldn't be one annoying person to shut up, it would be thousands.  Something would have to change.

Look at both the American and French revolutions.  Change happened because people sat up and said I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.  We had farmers with pitchforks fighting the well armed, well funded, and better trained British army.  Those odds don't look good on paper, but they didn't tuck their tails between their legs and roll over.  While it's true France helped, I think their impact was overstated just a bit.  France didn't get involved until toward the end, and the Patriots were at least holding their ground.  Things weren't great, I'll admit that.  But...  When Washington's troops were holed up at Valley Forge trying to last the winter, did they give up and go home because things were too hard?  If they had, France's contributions wouldn't have made much difference if there was no one to still fight because it all seemed too hopeless.  Even if they had lost, I would still consider those men heroes because they fought for what they believed in. 

Right now the US is the Titanic, and we're headed for one huge iceberg.  There are 2 men that want to be captain.  At this point there's no way in hell we're getting past that iceberg unscathed, so the question becomes which captain can navigate us in a way that will cause the least amount of damage.  If we the passengers sit back and do nothing because we figure we're hitting the iceberg either way, so there's no point, we're all going to drown.       

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2012, 03:51:10 PM »
You're right Seraphino.. and yet what do I hear when I point this out. "My vote don't count.. so why bother."

That is the path to idiocy. We, the people, made this mess.. through apathy. The last 40 years didn't JUST happen. We let one president with Imperial tendencies build an attitude of apathy and non participation that let a few people set the course of this nation over the years. The ivory tower intellectuals on one side dismissed the unions in their party, and in so doing weakened their own party. The other turtled down and instead of continuing the course of fiscal responsibility, sold their integrety and when the leaders started to lose control they sold their souls not once.. but twice to groups with interestes and outlooks outside those of the party while continuing the tradition of building an imperial executive that men from both parties have used as justification. We have a presidency that is increasingly less accountable to anyone at all, one party who is so split by special interests they can't work to restore the foundations of their own party, while the other party is so intent on being in control that the words 'bipartisan', compromise and negotiate are considered bad.

I find it ironic that it's been the self professed goal of the last 3 years for one group within the GOP to sabotage the president for the sole goal of getting the White House back.. I wonder how many lives have been made harder, how many people have lost everything because a few intolerant men want 'That Man' out of the White House.. how much better could we be, if we had men like we used to have in office who could work together rather than hate each other.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2012, 03:56:21 PM »

Right now the US is the Titanic, and we're headed for one huge iceberg.  There are 2 men that want to be captain.  At this point there's no way in hell we're getting past that iceberg unscathed, so the question becomes which captain can navigate us in a way that will cause the least amount of damage.  If we the passengers sit back and do nothing because we figure we're hitting the iceberg either way, so there's no point, we're all going to drown.       


My advice is to be one of the first to the lifeboats.  Most of the 99% are lumpenproles who are utterly convinced that, if they move their noses so much as an inch from the corporate rectum, America will turn into a lazy freeloading pinko-commie Third World country.  They've been completely brainwashed.

Of course, they'll come around eventually.  Eventually the lumpenproles will realize that Bill Gates and Ted Turner and the Waltons are not their friends, they're not going to get any wealth "trickled down" to them, and neoconservatism was one of history's greatest con jobs.  By the way, the masses will figure this out right around the time the Wal-Mart trucks stop running and the homeless and unemployed start getting rounded up and shipped off to the soylent factories. 

Trust me when I say you don't want to be here when things get that bad....unless you're way off the beaten path, off the grid, and self-sufficient, and like the survivalist lifestyle where your hand never gets more than a few feet from your Browning.  But I say, why live like that when there are plenty of decently prosperous places around the world with reasonably stable governments and at least fair to good standards of living?  Where you can spend a Friday night at a pub or at the cinema with friends, rather than in a cabin cleaning your guns. 

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2012, 04:05:47 PM »
My advice is to be one of the first to the lifeboats.  Most of the 99% are lumpenproles who are utterly convinced that, if they move their noses so much as an inch from the corporate rectum, America will turn into a lazy freeloading pinko-commie Third World country.  They've been completely brainwashed.

Of course, they'll come around eventually.  Eventually the lumpenproles will realize that Bill Gates and Ted Turner and the Waltons are not their friends, they're not going to get any wealth "trickled down" to them, and neoconservatism was one of history's greatest con jobs.  By the way, the masses will figure this out right around the time the Wal-Mart trucks stop running and the homeless and unemployed start getting rounded up and shipped off to the soylent factories. 

Trust me when I say you don't want to be here when things get that bad....unless you're way off the beaten path, off the grid, and self-sufficient, and like the survivalist lifestyle where your hand never gets more than a few feet from your Browning.  But I say, why live like that when there are plenty of decently prosperous places around the world with reasonably stable governments and at least fair to good standards of living?  Where you can spend a Friday night at a pub or at the cinema with friends, rather than in a cabin cleaning your guns.

Gee.. and your outlook towards the 99 is the same as the one percenters. Nice to see you have such high thoughts about us. Don't see why none of us like discussing things in a rational logical manner with you.

Your solution to everything.. Hide and turtle down as we self destruct as a country since we can't magically undo the last 30 to 40 years of apathy and folks hiding from the truth.. since we can't POSSIBLY elect a man the GOP dislikes.. or enact anything that the 'Illuniati' disapproves up..

Your advice? Give up and stock up on potables. Do even less for your fellow man.

Please.. don't offer it anymore we've heard it before.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2012, 04:20:39 PM »

Your solution to everything.. Hide and turtle down as we self destruct as a country since we can't magically undo the last 30 to 40 years of apathy and folks hiding from the truth.. since we can't POSSIBLY elect a man the GOP dislikes.. or enact anything that the 'Illuniati' disapproves up..

Your advice? Give up and stock up on potables. Do even less for your fellow man.

Please.. don't offer it anymore we've heard it before.

Actually if you read what I wrote, my advice was not really to hide and hunker down.  I said that could be a solution, but I think it's clear my actual advice was to emigrate and then live in plain sight, like a normal human being, rather than vainly struggle to turn a hundred million lemmings from their rush to the cliff.

I'm noticing a common thread in folks' reactions to what I am saying here where people seem to equate leaving the United States with giving up on the human race.  I'm not quite sure how people arrive at that conclusion unless they've seriously bought into the the whole "American exceptionalism" notion.  Rest assured, there is life--and fulfilling life at that!--outside the USA.  There's a whole planet there.  Even...other countries.  Take a look at Google Maps and you can see it's not "here there be dragons!" outside American borders.  There are writers and architects and accountants and tree-trimmers and dentists and bartenders and masons and lawyers and farmers and long-haul truckers and teachers and soldiers and welders and every other profession there.

So please, if you're going to argue with what I'm advocating, at least argue with what I'm actually advocating, and not the "run and hide in a bunker!" straw man you created there.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2012, 04:29:38 PM »
No Oldschoolgamer, you're not offering adivce. You advise giving up and running away. According to you nothing ever changes, we're done already. Nothing can change. Nothing will change, unless a shadowy cabal allows it. 2008, to me, was a good election. For the first time in a decade we had two fairly moderate men running for office. Both of whom had a reputation for trying to build a consensus and bipartisan efforts. I voted for the one who lost.. because I was SURE if he won.. this time around he could drop Palin.. because he'd have been GOP enough to to convince the moderates to back his play.  We'd be on the road, we being the modern conservative moderates in the party, to getting our own house in order.

Instead we got the guy who had to face neo-conservatives without a strong party behind him and did the best he could. We had to take 10 months of men preaching fear and 'us vs them' with a very narrow definition of 'us'.

The difference between you and the men who are pushing the status quo in my opinion is the flavor of fear you're preaching. You preach isolation and standoffishness just like they do.

I'm sorry.. I have seen what teams and compromise can do. I'm not going to sell hope for fear. Not now. Never again. I am 44 today..and most of my life has been spent watching Fear rule the nation.. I won't give up on my nation.. and I won't allow fear to rule me or push me into the shadows.

I won't be posting anymore today.. I'm going to enjoy my GD birthday.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 04:30:56 PM by Callie Del Noire »

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2012, 04:33:54 PM »
In the vein of what Callie's been saying about WE THE PEOPLE, I submit to the audience's approval the following clip from the Daily Show.


For those of you who don't care to watch the clip, summary of it as follows.

See Best F*@kcing News Team.

See Best F*@kcing News Team go to Tampa and Charlotte conventions.

See Best F*@kcing News Team talk to a bunch of people who say that we need to stop the negativity and get down to business.

See Best F*@kcing News Team ask said people who's to blame for the negativity and lack of solutions.

See Best F*@kcing News Team hear that it's the other party who is to blame for all that's wrong with America.


Callie, don't know if this follows your line of reasoning, but the people are stupid.  We had control...eh, I'll say seventy years ago, of the political process.  Then we somehow turned control over to the media and the politicians, a bunch of self-serving sociopaths to whom public service is like jumbo shrimp, and now we're getting dragged around on our lead by those same people.

Offline Chelemar

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2012, 05:24:58 PM »
Quote
Stop the finger pointing.  Just stop it
.   XD priceless.

But, yeah it's, we all need to take the blame and throw everything out and start from scratch. 

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2012, 05:34:30 PM »
No Oldschoolgamer, you're not offering adivce. You advise giving up and running away. According to you nothing ever changes, we're done already. Nothing can change. Nothing will change, unless a shadowy cabal allows it.

Have you ever read Who Moved My Cheese?  I highly recommend it.  Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F

To bottom-line it, cheese moves.  They move your cheese.  Things change.  America was once the best game in town, but that's in the process of going away.  The cheese here is getting stale, and dwindling.  So it's not "giving up and running away" to look for new cheese.  It's life.  It's the acceptance of change.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2012, 05:43:27 PM »
.   XD priceless.

But, yeah it's, we all need to take the blame and throw everything out and start from scratch.

And humans are so scared of that, to be looked at and ostracized for making a potentially bad choice.  But taking responsibility cand be a good thing, but everyone refuses to even go that way.

Humanity as a whole is a pretty negative race of people, always assuming the worse, often never expecting any good.

OGS is right in a way, but sadly, he'll find that there are no 'good' countries out there.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2012, 05:50:40 PM »

OGS is right in a way, but sadly, he'll find that there are no 'good' countries out there.

No. He's not.

We don't find good countries.. We MAKE them. No one is going to magically fix the problems. Citizens should work on their country, not stand around and blame those whose self-interest has led them to manipulate things while they willfully or ignorantly stood by.

Offline Chelemar

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2012, 05:53:46 PM »
Have you ever read Who Moved My Cheese?  I highly recommend it.  Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F

To bottom-line it, cheese moves.  They move your cheese.  Things change.  America was once the best game in town, but that's in the process of going away.  The cheese here is getting stale, and dwindling.  So it's not "giving up and running away" to look for new cheese.  It's life.  It's the acceptance of change.

 Wow, I seem to remember something about rats... sinking ship.  But here's the thing.  America isn't a ship.  People aren't rats.  People have higher reasoning, people can hope.  They have compassion. 

One thing that has been so prevalent recently is the need for some to foster a sense of "what's mine is mine."  When I grew up, we were taught to share.  You didn't eat in front of someone without offering to share.  EVERYTHING.  If you had a candy bar, your friend got half.  If you came in from playing to get a drink, your friend got one too. 

It is like that all the time here still, not just in times of disaster.  We have had family and friends live with us constantly because they have lost their home, apartment, what-have-you.  Cause friends and family suck it up, move over, and make do.  We take care of each other!

Another friend is having to move; she just called today.  She needs everything, has nothing.  We are going into our closets and giving her stuff, into our shelves collecting dishes, pots, classes.  Is the stuff perfect?  No.  But it's good enough. 

That's MY American spirit. 

Offline Serephino

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2012, 06:09:40 PM »
Okay, OSG, let's look at it this way....

America is doomed.  You move to another country right now because these corporate parasites are fixated on America at the moment.  Eventually America will be nothing but a dried up husk.  What does a parasite do when its host is dead?  It looks for another!

You think it's going to be China.  You could be right.  No matter what, because of globalization the fall of the US is going to be felt all over the world.  Right now we are major world oil consumers.  Argentina sells us oil, don't they?  Only China consumes oil at the rate we do, so yeah, the oil supply will be extended, but how will Argentina make up for that loss?  What will the Middle East do?

China is worse off than us already, so if these big bad secret people move there, China won't last long.  They're growing fast, but at a rate that makes them unstable.  So after China, then who?  If the widely held belief is once they get a foothold nothing can be done, so you might as well turn tail and run, you will eventually run out of places to run to.  What then?  You may argue that you'll be dead by the time it gets that bad, but do you really care so little for future generations?  Do you have kids, nieces, nephews, young cousins?  Can you really look a child you care about in the face and tell them they have no future because fighting back was too hard for you? 

There's a huge difference between moving cheese and having your cheese taken away completely.  Yes, times have changed, but short sightedness and greed is a plague that will keep spreading if left unopposed.  I don't fight for myself, but for future generations.   

Offline Hemingway

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2012, 07:08:09 PM »
Okay, OSG, let's look at it this way....
China is worse off than us already, so if these big bad secret people move there, China won't last long.  They're growing fast, but at a rate that makes them unstable.  So after China, then who?  If the widely held belief is once they get a foothold nothing can be done, so you might as well turn tail and run, you will eventually run out of places to run to.  What then?  You may argue that you'll be dead by the time it gets that bad, but do you really care so little for future generations?  Do you have kids, nieces, nephews, young cousins?  Can you really look a child you care about in the face and tell them they have no future because fighting back was too hard for you? 


OSG makes the mistake - and you replicate it here - of assuming that it's a conspiracy driven consciously by a group of unscrupulous individuals. I don't think it is. The scenario you describe, where they move on to China, or wherever else, isn't realistic because the conditions aren't right. If Chris Hedges is to be believed, what we're seeing today is the result of over a hundred years of gradual change, from around the time of the Great War, and the advent of modern mass propaganda, and the breaking of American radical movements in the period that followed. The conditions now, especially in a place like China, are very different.

That's not to say it can't happen. I think it's very likely it will. Just not in the way you describe. The important thing is not to think of it as some sort of evil entity.

More broadly, I see a lot of people telling OSG he's wrong, that there's ways of fixing the problem. I am genuinely interested in hearing what ideas people have, because I'm having, and have for a very long time had great trouble figuring out just what the solutions are ( I think I can say categorically that there is no single fix for a problem of this magnitude ).

I mean, I think I know what the long-term requirements are. I think that, in the long run, we need to either seriously regulate capitalism, or look for alternatives. But how do you get someone - someone who sincerely believes that reducing taxes for the incredibly rich while they themselves struggle to get by, someone who thinks that "freedom" means not having the state provide healthcare, and who thinks "socialism" is the end of all things - how do you get that person to vote for a sane alternative?