"I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."

[Vekseid]

His doomsaying has been going on for a long time, though the reasons have changed. Peak oil was supposed to have destroyed us already.

This requires that people hoarding paper and other intangible concepts such as owning things half a continent away still have those things recognized for their currently intended function in OSG's doomsday scenario. If we end up in truly dire need of a new currency for example, someone can always build a better bitcoin (And become fantastically rich in the process. It's anonymous founder is no doubt a multimillionaire now).

[OldSchoolGamer]

His doomsaying has been going on for a long time, though the reasons have changed. Peak oil was supposed to have destroyed us already.

Actually it already is destroying us, in countless unsung ways.

For starters: do you really think the actual inflation rate for the man on the street has been the 0 to 2.5% or so the CPI numbers indicate?  Around 2000, you could get a loaf of bread for around $1.29, so you can still get one for $1.69 or so, right?  And how's that $4 a gallon gasoline working out for you?  They conveniently omit food and energy prices--so what the statistic actually means is "there is no inflation in the price of everything that's not getting more expensive."  But around the world, food and energy prices have been in a relentless upward spiral.  This was a major contributor to the forces that led up to the Arab Spring revolts.

And where's the growth?  America isn't growing.  Europe isn't growing.  China's growth (which is almost certainly exaggerated as it is--the government there has millions of people building empty cities in the desert to keep unemployment down) is throttling back.  You've got a few countries that entered into this way below trendline that are growing.  And this is in spite of the loosest monetary policies in several decades, if not ever.  In spite of America basically pulling over a trillion dollars a year out of its ass.  Now the Federal Reserve has enacted a "the beatings will continue until morale improve" monetary policy of injecting $85 billion in fiat money into the economy each month until unemployment drops.

This is Peak Oil.  This is central banks and governments attempting, on a massive scale, to substitute money and credit for the cheap energy that's no longer there.  And it's failing.  All we're getting is inflation, which for the average man is about 10% a year now.  And this isn't the only such desperate gambit.  Consider the shale gas boom, where for another decade of cheap natural gas, and to make tar sands and shale oil viable for a few years, we're destroying aquifers and water supplies across America.  It's like a crack addict desperately taking apart his own furniture to try and scrounge up some change for one last hit.

This requires that people hoarding paper and other intangible concepts such as owning things half a continent away still have those things recognized for their currently intended function in OSG's doomsday scenario. If we end up in truly dire need of a new currency for example, someone can always build a better bitcoin (And become fantastically rich in the process. It's anonymous founder is no doubt a multimillionaire now).

Uh...there's gold.  Bitcoins are an interesting experiment, but useful only to über-geeks.  In order to be useful as a currency, something has to be, well, usable.

[Oniya]

Currency is a compact form of barter.  It simplifies trade so that you don't need to figure out the equivalence between cows and lumber, or chickens and bread.  It doesn't matter if your currency is gold, silver, beads, or kroopchiks.  If I do enough work to earn 7 kroopchiks, then I can purchase the product of another that is equivalent to 7 kroopchiks worth of labor.  The problem comes about when people are assigning their work-value an unrealistic number of kroopchiks.

Barter

[OldSchoolGamer]

Currency is a compact form of barter.  It simplifies trade so that you don't need to figure out the equivalence between cows and lumber, or chickens and bread.  It doesn't matter if your currency is gold, silver, beads, or kroopchiks.  If I do enough work to earn 7 kroopchiks, then I can purchase the product of another that is equivalent to 7 kroopchiks worth of labor.  The problem comes about when people are assigning their work-value an unrealistic number of kroopchiks.

Barter

Or, in this case, when crude oil gets scarce, the standard of living goes down as energy costs eat into consumers' pockets and drive up the cost of doing business, and so to keep things rolling the Central Bank throws billions of kroopchiks into circulation to "get the economy moving."

Energy issues aside, bitcoins will never be a generally-accepted currency.  Cybercurrency may find a niche amongst the technorati, but the common man on the street is going to use something tangible, that he can understand.  A post-collapse economy will likely result in gold and silver being the "kroopchiks" in common usage, along with a heavy dose of barter.  Communities that retain a reasonable degree of control and organization may use their own scrip for common, garden-variety transactions amongst plebs.

[Stattick]

Energy issues aside, bitcoins will never be a generally-accepted currency.  Cybercurrency may find a niche amongst the technorati, but the common man on the street is going to use something tangible, that he can understand.

You say that as if people understand what the Dollar (or Euro) is and how it works.

[Oniya]

Remember 'Quayle moments' and 'Bushisms'?  Romney had one this weekend at a fund raiser.

Romney’s wife, Ann, was in attendance, and the candidate spoke of the concern he had for her when her plane had to make an emergency landing Friday en route to Santa Monica because of an electrical  malfunction.

“I appreciate the fact that she is on the ground, safe and sound. And I don’t think she knows just how worried some of us were,” Romney said. “When you have a fire in an aircraft, there’s no place to go, exactly, there’s no — and you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem. So it’s very dangerous. And she was choking and rubbing her eyes. Fortunately, there was enough oxygen for the pilot and copilot to make a safe landing in Denver. But she’s safe and sound.”

I'm glad that the fire didn't end in any injuries; if someone had been able to open a window, there definitely would have been a lot.

[Question Mark]

Although they're funny, I never put much weight to slips of the tongue because, most of the time, they are just that.  People get words mixed up in their heads, and sometimes it all comes out wrong.  I'm sure Romney knows the physics of how plane windows work, but his statement just came out wrong.  It's pretty low to criticize his character or intelligence over it.

It's most definitely okay to laugh, though.  Point and laugh, people, point and laugh!

[Chris Brady]

People were doing that with Bush, because of his accent.  I mean, the man was a Fighter Pilot.  You can't be stupid if you can fly an F-15 people...

But, I'd like to point out that the title of this thread has always been a 'problem'.  People don't honestly care about the actual issues, just their perception of them.  And if that means doing something stupid, or smart, because of it?  So be it.

[Callie Del Noire]

People were doing that with Bush, because of his accent.  I mean, the man was a Fighter Pilot.  You can't be stupid if you can fly an F-15 people...

But, I'd like to point out that the title of this thread has always been a 'problem'.  People don't honestly care about the actual issues, just their perception of them.  And if that means doing something stupid, or smart, because of it?  So be it.

You clearly haven't worked with Pilots.. let me tell you!

[Question Mark]

People were doing that with Bush, because of his accent.  I mean, the man was a Fighter Pilot.  You can't be stupid if you can fly an F-15 people...

I get your point, but I can tell you from personal experience (with myself)...

Technical Knowledge =/= Common Sense

[Stattick]

Although they're funny, I never put much weight to slips of the tongue because, most of the time, they are just that.  People get words mixed up in their heads, and sometimes it all comes out wrong.  I'm sure Romney knows the physics of how plane windows work, but his statement just came out wrong.  It's pretty low to criticize his character or intelligence over it.

It's most definitely okay to laugh, though.  Point and laugh, people, point and laugh!

Considering all of the stupid things that Romney's said or done, I believe that he is, in fact, stupid enough not to know how the physics of high altitude flight works.

Oh, and Bush Jr: he was an alcoholic and a cokehead. Neither of those drugs are exactly good for your brain or IQ.

[OldSchoolGamer]

You say that as if people understand what the Dollar (or Euro) is and how it works.

Perhaps.  But even those who don't know the inner workings of the Federal Reserve know what dollars are, what they're worth, and how to use them in everyday life.  Not so with bitcoins.  Kind of like the internal combustion engine: even those who couldn't tell a radiator from a battery know enough to put the key in the ignition, turn it, and put the transmission into Drive and use the pedals and steering wheel to control speed and trajectory.  That's all the knowledge required to operate an automobile.  Now if it breaks down, yes, then there's a problem for the person who doesn't know what's under the hood.

[Stattick]

Perhaps.  But even those who don't know the inner workings of the Federal Reserve know what dollars are, what they're worth, and how to use them in everyday life.  Not so with bitcoins.  Kind of like the internal combustion engine: even those who couldn't tell a radiator from a battery know enough to put the key in the ignition, turn it, and put the transmission into Drive and use the pedals and steering wheel to control speed and trajectory.  That's all the knowledge required to operate an automobile.  Now if it breaks down, yes, then there's a problem for the person who doesn't know what's under the hood.

All I need to know about bitcoins is how to get them, how to spend them, and how to transfer them into other forms of currency and/or put them in my checking account. Same as what I need to know about the dollar, traveler checks, pesos, yen, euros, stocks, bonds, gold bricks, property, yams, or any other form of wealth.

[Will]

Perhaps.  But even those who don't know the inner workings of the Federal Reserve know what dollars are, what they're worth, and how to use them in everyday life.  Not so with bitcoins.  Kind of like the internal combustion engine: even those who couldn't tell a radiator from a battery know enough to put the key in the ignition, turn it, and put the transmission into Drive and use the pedals and steering wheel to control speed and trajectory.  That's all the knowledge required to operate an automobile.  Now if it breaks down, yes, then there's a problem for the person who doesn't know what's under the hood.

Is it really that important that a currency be tangible?  Plenty of people rely on debit cards and have their checks direct-deposited straight to the bank.  It's not really that complicated to think of money as a value or concept, rather than a number of bills in your wallet.  I don't have much more faith in people than you do, but seriously, that's just silly.

And there's no reason bitcoins can't be a valid currency, even now.  Obviously you have to be able to spend them, and that's a problem, but it's only a problem because people don't care enough about bitcoin to create a demand, so there's no reason for businesses to go to the trouble of accepting it.  If the proverbial shit suddenly hit the fan, and the dollar was suddenly less than viable, the demand would be there.  Maybe it's not a perfect alternative to the dollar, but it's a pretty interesting start if nothing else.  Maybe somebody can do better.

[OldSchoolGamer]

All I need to know about bitcoins is how to get them, how to spend them, and how to transfer them into other forms of currency and/or put them in my checking account. Same as what I need to know about the dollar, traveler checks, pesos, yen, euros, stocks, bonds, gold bricks, property, yams, or any other form of wealth.

From what I've read, you have to "find" them using umpteen gazillion bazillion processor loops, preferably knowing how to trick your PC into using its GPU to perform calculations as well, using a process that takes anywhere from hours to days (if your processor doesn't overheat from overclocking in the process).  And transferring them to anyone involves an equally intricate mathematical process.  As opposed to swiping a debit card or handing a cashier some green pieces of paper with dead Presidents on them.

If you're a super-nerd, you take all that for granted.  And nothing's wrong with that.  If you can find other super-nerds capable of such technical feats and y'all want to do business in Bitcoins, I fully support your right to do so.  And who knows--if we avoid collapse and Moore's Law keeps on trucking, by the 2030s or so computing power might indeed become so ubiquitous that we all have wristbands or similar "intelligent garb" with 8 octo-core 20 gigahertz 256-bit processors capable of performing Bitcoin calculations in a matter of a couple seconds for buying a latte at Starbucks or paying a month's rent.  But not yet.  So Bitcoins are "not ready for prime time" as a means of exchange for the general public...however much we might want them to be.

[Rune]

Anyone see 60 minutes with Romney? He explained his position on the tax cuts. He actually made some points that I hadn't heard before, stating how his does want to cut taxes, but will also cut deductions and tax credits. Frankly, I think President Obama has some good intentions, but has no idea how to properly implement them. I get the feeling that while President Obama has good intentions, Mr. Romney would be better at actually getting things done. Cutting the military budget is very scary. Especially with what is going on between China and Japan, not to mention the Middle East. I do not agree with everything Romney says. His lifestyle makes his background not representative of my own. Then again, the president didn't even grow up in this country, so his background does not match either.

[Oniya]

Was that the interview where he said that uninsured people should just go to the ER?

[Callie Del Noire]

Anyone see 60 minutes with Romney? He explained his position on the tax cuts. He actually made some points that I hadn't heard before, stating how his does want to cut taxes, but will also cut deductions and tax credits. Frankly, I think President Obama has some good intentions, but has no idea how to properly implement them. I get the feeling that while President Obama has good intentions, Mr. Romney would be better at actually getting things done. Cutting the military budget is very scary. Especially with what is going on between China and Japan, not to mention the Middle East. I do not agree with everything Romney says. His lifestyle makes his background not representative of my own. Then again, the president didn't even grow up in this country, so his background does not match either.

The vibe I got.. he was sticking to his talking points list. He talks a good game when he doesn't go off script (and he sticks better to it than his running mate.. ) but I don't think he can be trusted NOT to do what is strickly best for himself. He's reformatted himself so many times over the years that it's impossisble to get a read on what he'd actually do.

[ReijiTabibito]

He's reformatted himself so many times over the years that it's impossisble to get a read on what he'd actually do.

Actually, Callie, I disagree.  His constant reformatting has made it impossible to not get a read on what he'd do.

Mitt Romney will do is whatever is best for Mitt Romney.  No matter how sleazy, unethical, or betraying of principle it might be.

[Callie Del Noire]

Actually, Callie, I disagree.  His constant reformatting has made it impossible to not get a read on what he'd do.

Mitt Romney will do is whatever is best for Mitt Romney.  No matter how sleazy, unethical, or betraying of principle it might be.

Thing is.. will he burn his allies when/if he gets in office.. or just continue building the 'Imperial Presidency' like the last 2 presidents?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Anyone see 60 minutes with Romney? He explained his position on the tax cuts. He actually made some points that I hadn't heard before, stating how his does want to cut taxes, but will also cut deductions and tax credits. Frankly, I think President Obama has some good intentions, but has no idea how to properly implement them. I get the feeling that while President Obama has good intentions, Mr. Romney would be better at actually getting things done. Cutting the military budget is very scary. Especially with what is going on between China and Japan, not to mention the Middle East. I do not agree with everything Romney says. His lifestyle makes his background not representative of my own. Then again, the president didn't even grow up in this country, so his background does not match either.

It's rather hard for Obama to get anything done when the GOP reflexively and dogmatically oppose his every move.  Over the past few years I've come to hate the Republicans.  Seriously.  Even Reagan would reach across the aisle and compromise to move the business of the nation forward. 

The only reason Romney might be better at getting things done is if the GOP manages to gain control of both houses of Congress.

[Rune]

President Obama has done his share of walking away from the table too. In his book he even stated that you could make unreasonable demands, only capitulate 10% then blame others for being obstructionists.  Part of being a leader is figuring out a way to get both sides to work together. Not saying the Romney can do any better when the Democrats play the same game, but Obama has shown he can't.

[Oniya]

Well, when the Senate Minority Leader (McConnell, and Boehner didn't step too far away from that) is saying that his primary goal is to get Obama out in one term, it doesn't take much to determine how much compromise will be happening.  Compromise is when both sides give a little to come to a middle ground that's got something for everyone, even if it doesn't have everything for anyone.

[Rune]

Ms. Pelosi said the same thing before the current administration. (It was phrased as one of her excuses for not knowing about waterboarding) Not to mention how it was just a coincidence that she owned stock in every company that got bailout funds. Unfortunately neither side is willing to work together. Too bad they are so ingrained in the system. I really don't see anything changing in the near future.

[Callie Del Noire]

President Obama has done his share of walking away from the table too. In his book he even stated that you could make unreasonable demands, only capitulate 10% then blame others for being obstructionists.  Part of being a leader is figuring out a way to get both sides to work together. Not saying the Romney can do any better when the Democrats play the same game, but Obama has shown he can't.

The President never made it a point of saying, in public, of spending the last 2 years making sure the other side didn't get reelected. That was the declared goal of the house majority leader 2 years ago.