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Author Topic: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."  (Read 7260 times)

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Offline Question MarkTopic starter

"I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« on: September 16, 2012, 11:04:40 PM »
Does anyone else hear this a lot?  The majority of my family is diehard conservative, but even they don't like Mitt Romney.  They're still going to vote for him though... because he's not Obama.  This seems to be a common sentiment amongst conservatives, in my experience anyway.

I think it's fucking stupid.  They buy into all of the Fox News slander, and instead if voting for who they think can do the best job, they vote against who they're afraid of.

I guess that's the topic: do any conservatives you know like Romney (and I mean genuinely think he's great), or is he just the best they could get to replace Obama?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2012, 11:21:27 PM »
There are a LOT of people I know who are doing it.. because they feel that the President is weak in various ways.  I won't lie.. for a constitutional scholar his actions on the side of freedoms and rights and due process scare the fuck out of me.. but as evil as those actions are I think Romney is going to screw things out.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2012, 11:39:24 PM »
A vote for Romney or Obama is a vote for the Forbes 400 and Bilderberg agenda: more power to corporations and the state (same thing these days anyway), continued skimming of wealth from the working class into the pockets of the elite, etc.

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2012, 11:57:22 PM »
A vote for Obama or Romney is a vote for a man with an unfunny name.  This November, vote for the man with the name everyone can laugh at.

Vote Rick Santorum!  :P

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2012, 12:02:22 AM »
I'm on my phone so I will keep this brief and apologize in advance for typos. It really bothers me when people say that... And I hear it ALL the time. Anyone who votes Romney is either ignorant to the issues and his stance one them (not to mention his history of selling out to whoever he can make money off of), deluded, or knows his habits and is just twisted in the worst way mentally.

I dont agree with Obama on everything but I think ultimately he means well but is largely trapped by a corrupt system and forced to work within it, sometimes to little or no avail. All in all, I think when you look at his term he is like the parent who loaned his high schooler the car and they wrecked it, but he doesnt have the money to fix it all at once... He's doing the best he can with what he has.

Romney and Ryan on the other hand... Well, they're just two more highschool boys with beer in their bellies.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2012, 12:13:08 AM »
A vote for Romney or Obama is a vote for the Forbes 400 and Bilderberg agenda: more power to corporations and the state (same thing these days anyway), continued skimming of wealth from the working class into the pockets of the elite, etc.

Okay Oldschool.. I got to ask.. if you're so certain that the process is useless why do you even bother?

Offline LadyAVA

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 01:35:05 AM »
Im so un-American in comparrison to my students (I teach HS seniors) - they ask me about who Im going to vote for and how I feel about Obama and Romney. Hehe they know so much more than me - its just sad!

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2012, 06:56:45 AM »
Im so un-American in comparrison to my students (I teach HS seniors) - they ask me about who Im going to vote for and how I feel about Obama and Romney. Hehe they know so much more than me - its just sad!

Skim a couple of threads in here - if nothing else, you'll be able to drop conversation starters on 'em.  (Some people get most of their political news from a comedy channel.  I get a good 25% of mine on an ERP forum.)

Offline Luna

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2012, 07:27:28 AM »
What a coincidence. I'm gonna vote for Obama because he's not Romney.

No, really. I admit it, I fell for the whole "hope and change" thing last time and voted for Obama. It hasn't worked out so well, and I might have considered voting Republican(which I almost never do btw) if someone halfway decent had won the primary. Buuut... that was doomed not to happen almost from the beginning, with the class of clowns who ended up running, each one trying to out right-wingnut the next one.

Offline Hemingway

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2012, 07:46:48 AM »
A vote for Romney or Obama is a vote for the Forbes 400 and Bilderberg agenda: more power to corporations and the state (same thing these days anyway), continued skimming of wealth from the working class into the pockets of the elite, etc.

That's what it looks like to me as well, from the outside.

Offline Luna

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2012, 07:50:39 AM »
And while that may indeed be true... a vote for anyone besides Romney or Obama is just a wasted vote.

So I choose to be realistic and at least go for the lesser of two evils.

Offline Question MarkTopic starter

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2012, 08:32:12 AM »
And while that may indeed be true... a vote for anyone besides Romney or Obama is just a wasted vote.

So I choose to be realistic and at least go for the lesser of two evils.

I'm done voting for the lesser evil.  I'm voting for who I actually want in the Oval Office.  Gary Johnson 2012!

Offline errantwandering

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2012, 09:05:28 AM »
I'm in the same boat.  Obama has done absolutely terrible things to individual liberty.  His foreign policy is even more bloodthirsty and counterproductive than Bush's ever was, and his economic policies are a joke.  That said, Romney will be just as bad as Obama ever was, and he'll do his best to roll back the progress that the homosexual community has made over the past decade.  I'm voting for Gary Johnson this year: he's as close to a perfect candidate for me as I'm likely to see.

Offline Valerian

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2012, 09:10:05 AM »
From a thread down the way, "How close will this election be?":

Just wanted to also mention that Gary Johnson has something like 4.3% according to some polls.  Whoever gets elected will likely get under 50% of the vote no matter what.

You're talking popular vote there.  Unless Gary Johnson can get enough to carry one state (unless his base is in one of those states that can split their electoral vote), those 4.3% will only show up on the local news.

From what I've read of Gary Johnson, he certainly wouldn't be a lesser evil, no.  <.<

On the other hand, I'm reasonably okay with people wasting their votes in that direction, since I'm guessing a good proportion of those people would otherwise vote for Romney.

Offline Question MarkTopic starter

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2012, 09:14:45 AM »
From a thread down the way, "How close will this election be?":

From what I've read of Gary Johnson, he certainly wouldn't be a lesser evil, no.  <.<

On the other hand, I'm reasonably okay with people wasting their votes in that direction, since I'm guessing a good proportion of those people would otherwise vote for Romney.

Now I'm curious: why do you think he'd be greater evil?

Offline Valerian

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2012, 09:36:22 AM »
Well, he isn't quite as scary as Romney, but I still wouldn't be comfortable voting for him.  I agree with some of his positions (he supports gay unions and is pro-choice), but other ideas of his frighten me.  He's all for FairTax, for example.  He also wants to abolish student loans, eliminate corporate taxes, and remove all federal funding of stem cell research.  Admittedly, I'm a little biased on that last one, as stem cells saved my niece's life, but the mere fact that they are saving lives seems to me to mean that federal funding there can only be a good thing.

He's also been described as "the original Tea Party candidate".  So, yeah, scary as far as I'm concerned.

Offline Luna

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2012, 09:43:45 AM »
At least we know where he stands on things.

I think the most scary thing about Romney, is that no one really has any way to know what he would do if he is elected, because he has been all over the place and changes positions at the drop of a hat.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2012, 09:45:22 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Gary_Johnson

I just took a quick look at his positions, and the first thing that stands out is his desire to shift Medicare/aid to individual state control.  Like that's going to lower corruption? 

What I've read of the so-called 'Fair Tax' (23% sales tax?  'Annual Consumption Allowance'? ) leaves me feeling ill.  The President's Advisory Panel for Federal Tax Reform cited the 'prebate' (a deposit intended to offset the tax based on family size alone) as one of their chief concerns when analyzing their national sales tax, stating that it would be the largest entitlement program in American history, and contending that it would "make most American families dependent on monthly checks from the federal government" (source). 

He opposes the Affordable Care Act, and thinks that it and Roe v. Wade should be overturned.

He opposes Net neutrality, saying that it impedes business competition. 

Yeah, I've read enough to keep my vote where it is.

Offline mia h

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2012, 09:49:09 AM »
Fair Tax it's one of those things like Healthy Plauge and Military Intellegence, but if it means the rich get to pay even less tax so it must be good right?

As for I'm only voting for <insert name> because they're not <insert other name>, it always happens regardless of who the candidate is. If the GOP and DNC swapped platforms and campaign promises today the die-hards will still vote for thier party regardless, people are dumb like that.


Offline Valerian

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2012, 10:03:17 AM »
Hrm.  Do we know where he stands, though?  The list Oniya found says he's both pro-choice and against Roe v. Wade... which is odd.  The list I found (http://www.ontheissues.org/gary_johnson.htm) states only that he supports "women's right to choose until fetal viability," and thinks we should "leave the decision up to the woman."

I'm not normally against states' rights, but what he's suggesting seems impractical at best.  If a woman happens to live in a part of the country where all the states have chosen to ban abortion individually, then she doesn't get to decide anything unless she can afford to get someplace where it's still legal.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2012, 10:56:43 AM »
I'm liking some of what I see....till I see the cutting. Er..gutting of defense, total elimination of corporate taxes and instituting the Fair Tax.  Which ain't.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 11:02:53 AM »
And while that may indeed be true... a vote for anyone besides Romney or Obama is just a wasted vote.

So I choose to be realistic and at least go for the lesser of two evils.

Why go for the lesser of the two evils?


Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 11:05:51 AM »
I'm in the same boat.  Obama has done absolutely terrible things to individual liberty.  His foreign policy is even more bloodthirsty and counterproductive than Bush's ever was, and his economic policies are a joke.  That said, Romney will be just as bad as Obama ever was, and he'll do his best to roll back the progress that the homosexual community has made over the past decade.  I'm voting for Gary Johnson this year: he's as close to a perfect candidate for me as I'm likely to see.

The closest the Forbes 400 would ever allow Gary Johnson to get to the White House would be the bottom of a rock quarry somewhere in eastern Virginia.

Fortunately for Gary, the Forbes 400 own the media so they can just order no one to talk about him, thereby ensuring he never gets the name recognition or pr necessary to be a serious contender.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 11:08:32 AM »
Okay Oldschool.. I got to ask.. if you're so certain that the process is useless why do you even bother?

I don't.  I'm in the process of moving my financial life offshore so that when this place falls apart and the goose-step becomes mandatory, I'll be somewhere far-off that no one cares about.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2012, 11:11:00 AM »
Well, he isn't quite as scary as Romney, but I still wouldn't be comfortable voting for him.  I agree with some of his positions (he supports gay unions and is pro-choice), but other ideas of his frighten me.  He's all for FairTax, for example.  He also wants to abolish student loans, eliminate corporate taxes, and remove all federal funding of stem cell research.  Admittedly, I'm a little biased on that last one, as stem cells saved my niece's life, but the mere fact that they are saving lives seems to me to mean that federal funding there can only be a good thing.

He's also been described as "the original Tea Party candidate".  So, yeah, scary as far as I'm concerned.

Let's face it: many Libertarians these days are just corporatists who want to be able to legally smoke weed.

Notice I said "many," not "all."

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2012, 11:14:54 AM »
I don't.  I'm in the process of moving my financial life offshore so that when this place falls apart and the goose-step becomes mandatory, I'll be somewhere far-off that no one cares about.

So, rather than invest in time and effort to reclaim your political system along with encouraging others, you bemoan that by acting and encouraging others to act that we are wasting our time not getting ready to run away.

And IF thing go as sour as you say, what is to keep the powers that be from chasing after folks like you?

Unite and stand, speak up.  Or die running and alone.

Offline Question MarkTopic starter

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2012, 11:24:51 AM »
So, rather than invest in time and effort to reclaim your political system along with encouraging others, you bemoan that by acting and encouraging others to act that we are wasting our time not getting ready to run away.

And IF thing go as sour as you say, what is to keep the powers that be from chasing after folks like you?

Unite and stand, speak up.  Or die running and alone.

I wish I was still as idealistic as you are :(

I don't think it's nearly as bad as OSG thinks, but it's certainly not good!  There are ways we can reclaim the political system, but it takes time.  OWS and the Tea Party were good starts, but these kinds of movements need to be pursued and mobilized on a grander scale.  I think this election will be a turning point, for Congress at least.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2012, 11:40:52 AM »
I don't.  I'm in the process of moving my financial life offshore so that when this place falls apart and the goose-step becomes mandatory, I'll be somewhere far-off that no one cares about.

I'm not so sure Callie meant 'voting'.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2012, 11:41:31 AM »
So, rather than invest in time and effort to reclaim your political system along with encouraging others, you bemoan that by acting and encouraging others to act that we are wasting our time not getting ready to run away.

We all have to choose the path that's best.  If I were still in my teens or twenties, who knows, I might be out there with OWS and whatnot.

Quote
And IF thing go as sour as you say, what is to keep the powers that be from chasing after folks like you?

Because their system will (quite literally) run out of gas.  They'll have their hands full just holding onto the United States and Canada once the oil stops flowing from the Middle East. 

Quote
Unite and stand, speak up.  Or die running and alone.

Some sociopolitical trends--like the imperial and collapse stages of big republics--are simply too big for any person to alter.  The herd will go where the herd goes.  And the best course of action to follow is simply not to be there when it does.  Ask any European Jew who saw the 1930s and 1940s.  Your best course of action was to LEAVE.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2012, 11:42:58 AM »
I wish I was still as idealistic as you are :(

I don't think it's nearly as bad as OSG thinks, but it's certainly not good!  There are ways we can reclaim the political system, but it takes time.  OWS and the Tea Party were good starts, but these kinds of movements need to be pursued and mobilized on a grander scale.  I think this election will be a turning point, for Congress at least.

Pardon me for the next sentence.  Well DUH!   It took nearly fifty years of voter apathy in the wake of watergate, the schisming of the Democratic party between their Labor foundation/Progressive thinkers, 20 years of the GOP going from a party that would TALK to their rivals to one that is so ideologically bent and revisionist that I occasionally get Orwellian flashes of new history and a CHRONIC media presence that looks back fifty or sixty years to find that ONE shaming incident in a mans life

 It took my whole LIFEspan plus some to get here. Unlike Oldschool, I don't think it's intentional I think we are in a sick system of our own creation.

You don't like the system? Don't blame cabals.. Don't blame anyone but ourselves. 

We, the people, made this mess. We, the people, have to bear that shame and fix it.

How many of us know our senators and congressmen? From what I learned this year damn few. Even fewer bother to find out what they doin our names.

One of the most impacting books of my childhood was starship troopers. Why? Because it taugh me the vote I have is a GODAMN DUTY.  Not a right. I owe it to the country to exercise it nd try to be as informed as possible.

Rant done. I think I'll take the day off from posting more. I don't have to agree with how a person votes but if you say my/your vote don't count you..maam/ sir are a fool.

Consider this..this year has seen more money spent than every election cycle since the century turned.  (at LEAST) EVERYONE running for office is trying to buy your vote, how you spend that vote will set the issues, platform, and stage for what they offer next cycle, then the next

It's a long road to fix the problems in our government. My family typically lives into their 90s. I hope that if people start now, I might see a government I can respect and be proud of before I die, but I damn sure want to do my part to help it come to be

Offline Hemingway

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2012, 11:53:37 AM »
I don't know half as much about third party and independent candidates as I'd like, but it seems to me that Nader would have been a sound choice. Unfortunately, that may no longer really be an option. And may never have been a realistic one.

I'm a pessimist about these things as well. I try not to, because very few things, if any at all, make me as angry as seeing all these problems ( and, really, it's all tied together - although it's related to US politics, these issues are global ) and not being able to do anything about them - hell, I'm reduced to being an observer and spouting my opinions on the internet, because I'm not even part of that political process.

But anyway I think voting for Obama because he's not Romney - or Romney because he's not Obama - in a sense undermines the democratic process. It's not really the fault of the voters, as the system is set up in such a way that unless you can mobilize a very large number of people, a vote that isn't for either the Democrats or the Republicans is wasted at best. Still, I think it undermines the process because if people did vote according to who they supported and not who they didn't support, that could, over time, bring about change.

At this point, I get a little conspiratorial, so take it for what you like. But I think the Democrats and the Republicans know this, and I think that's why you get some of the more insane proposals. That's why you get people like Palin. To keep people from voting according to long-term intersts in order to avoid regressing back to the previous century socially. At the risk of reducing this to a thought-terminating cliché, it's basically divide and rule. Whether it's the work of a nefarious cabal of faceless men in suits, or simply a result of people acting within the system as it's set up, it doesn't really make any difference.

Offline Kailen

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2012, 12:57:37 PM »
All I'm going to say is that if Romney becomes President, I'm hoping they put up a huge, impenetrable wall between the US and Europe. He's a buffoon, he made a complete idiot of himself when we came over here for a few weeks. The US really don't want someone that stupid representing them.

Offline Shjade

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2012, 02:11:33 PM »
Okay Oldschool.. I got to ask.. if you're so certain that the process is useless why do you even bother?

Dunno about him, but I don't.

I find voting meaningless when I can only vote for what's already on the ballot if I don't want anything that's on the ballot.

He's a buffoon, he made a complete idiot of himself when we came over here for a few weeks. The US really don't want someone that stupid representing them.

That didn't stop us with Bush Jr. :|

Offline Valerian

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2012, 02:32:07 PM »
Dunno about him, but I don't.

I find voting meaningless when I can only vote for what's already on the ballot if I don't want anything that's on the ballot.
As mentioned above, there's more than just voting when you're told to vote involved in the process.  For instance, if Scott Walker's proved anything, it's that it's deeply unwise to stop paying attention to one's elected representatives once they're in office.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2012, 04:09:09 PM »

One of the most impacting books of my childhood was starship troopers. Why? Because it taugh me the vote I have is a GODAMN DUTY.  Not a right. I owe it to the country to exercise it nd try to be as informed as possible.

A noble idea (and I'm being sincere, not sarcastic).  But unfortunately, unless you vote for a Bilderberg, your vote doesn't count.  The Bilderbergs took a page from Josef Stalin's playbook.  Stalin once remarked that those who vote decide nothing, but those who count the votes decide everything.

Take the Presidential election.  70% of the state votes for a Bilderberg-approved candidate (Democrat or Republican). 30% vote for an independent--let's say Libertarian.  Well, as it turns out, those who count the votes award 100% of the state's electors (you know, the elite few who really decide who the next President will be) to the Bilderbergs.  So the 30% who voted for an unapproved candidate get no voice.  Those who count the votes decide their votes don't count for anything.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2012, 04:14:52 PM »
Of course, if 70% of the voters take a pass on their ability to vote because they think it's useless, then there's no telling whether the 'unapproved' candidate could have possibly won those votes.  I have a kid.  If I want the world to be better for her, I have to do something about it, instead of just declaring I'm going to take my toys and find some deserted island somewhere.

Offline Question MarkTopic starter

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2012, 04:17:52 PM »
Of course, if 70% of the voters take a pass on their ability to vote because they think it's useless, then there's no telling whether the 'unapproved' candidate could have possibly won those votes.  I have a kid.  If I want the world to be better for her, I have to do something about it, instead of just declaring I'm going to take my toys and find some deserted island somewhere.

I don't have a kid, but this x1000.  As long as I live in this country, I'm going to be trying to fix it.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2012, 04:27:57 PM »
Of course, if 70% of the voters take a pass on their ability to vote because they think it's useless, then there's no telling whether the 'unapproved' candidate could have possibly won those votes.  I have a kid.  If I want the world to be better for her, I have to do something about it, instead of just declaring I'm going to take my toys and find some deserted island somewhere.

I for one will not be looking for any deserted islands.  There are plenty of places left in the world where one can live as a citizen and not a profit/loss center for corporations.  There is a whole planet outside the United States of America.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2012, 04:31:36 PM »
I thought the Bilderbergs were supposed to be international?

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2012, 04:40:36 PM »
I thought the Bilderbergs were supposed to be international?

They are.  But America is their focus now.  20 years or so from now, when they've drained America dry, they'll move on to China.  They're like locusts.  They feed on every available resource, and when they've stripped a place bare, they move on.

Offline Love And Submission

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2012, 04:46:46 PM »
We all have to choose the path that's best.  If I were still in my teens or twenties, who knows, I might be out there with OWS and whatnot.

Because their system will (quite literally) run out of gas.  They'll have their hands full just holding onto the United States and Canada once the oil stops flowing from the Middle East. 

Some sociopolitical trends--like the imperial and collapse stages of big republics--are simply too big for any person to alter.  The herd will go where the herd goes.  And the best course of action to follow is simply not to be there when it does.  Ask any European Jew who saw the 1930s and 1940s.  Your best course of action was to LEAVE.

Yes clearly that single historic event in  the history of all mankind is a gauge on how the world works more then seventy years ago. Not to mention Hitler failed. Hell , He failed down right spectacularly.
Not just are the jews still alive but they have there own country , one of the leading superpowers ended up having a black  president and  i'm pretty sure his approval rating is less then forty percent globally. I don't vote for the same reason that I don't belive in these vast conspiracies like the bilderberg group , bohemian groove and the Illuminati. It's something Sagan said.


"Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar", every "supreme leader", every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there - on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam."

That's it. Every leader from Hitler to Stalin to Churchill was just a man. A man living on a dot in the vast cosmos. You might think that man is great or wondrous or impeccable or evil , unjust and a villain  but he's just a teeny creature living on a mote of dust in the universe. Nothing he does really effects the cosmos at large. Electing Barack Obama or Mitt Romney or running away from your invisible boogeyman isn't going to effect the macrocosm.


We're ants. Living in ant hill , fighting for that ant hill despite the fact that we don't have that much time here anyways.


Once again take the Eastern jews of the 30s and 40s. Yes they died in one of the world's most horrific tragedies but what would've happen if they won? If they ousted Hitler before the holocaust started? They still would've died eventually.

De Gaulle , Churchill , Patton , Hitler , Rohm , Goebbbels all end up in the same place. The ground.



Entropy doesn't care about socialism , fascism  liberalism or conservatism. Everything dies period.
 
 

Offline Valerian

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2012, 04:47:59 PM »
They are.  But America is their focus now.  20 years or so from now, when they've drained America dry, they'll move on to China.  They're like locusts.  They feed on every available resource, and when they've stripped a place bare, they move on.

If the U.S. actually is stripped bare, do you really think the rest of the world will just go on with business as usual?  That's an honest question.  If a financial crisis in Greece can affect the entire first world, then it seems to me that letting the U.S. fall apart is a recipe for disaster pretty much everywhere.

In other words, I'm not sure you'll be able to go far enough for that plan to work.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2012, 04:59:56 PM »
They are.  But America is their focus now.  20 years or so from now, when they've drained America dry, they'll move on to China.  They're like locusts.  They feed on every available resource, and when they've stripped a place bare, they move on.

'And I did not speak up, for I was not a...'

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2012, 05:06:56 PM »
If the U.S. actually is stripped bare, do you really think the rest of the world will just go on with business as usual?  That's an honest question.  If a financial crisis in Greece can affect the entire first world, then it seems to me that letting the U.S. fall apart is a recipe for disaster pretty much everywhere.

In other words, I'm not sure you'll be able to go far enough for that plan to work.

Yes, there will be repercussions elsewhere.  But some areas are more interconnected than others.  I don't want to derail the thread into the finer details of survivalism and relocation, but there are plenty of areas that would get by decently to well even if the U.S. economy collapsed.  South Africa, for instance.  Brazil is another one--most of South America would keep going.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2012, 05:13:57 PM »
They are.  But America is their focus now.  20 years or so from now, when they've drained America dry, they'll move on to China.  They're like locusts.  They feed on every available resource, and when they've stripped a place bare, they move on.

If you honestly think that any outside shadowy conspiracy would simply do this.. I'm sorry for you. And if you honestly thinkt hat the pragmatic leaders of China would allow them to do it to them.. I'm sorry.. you're missing the pragmatic nature and totally ruthless nature of the Chinese leadership. Good luck with your bananna farm wherever. I'm sorry you've elected to not help the future. We're well rid of someone who can't see beyond their own needs.

'And I did not speak up, for I was not a...'

And that is what we need to change. The Tea Party is 'ME.. me. me.. ' the idea of any socially redeeming program, policy or actions. We as a people aren't moving forward to help each other. We've failed in the basic social contract behind government. To help one another as a group.


Offline Question MarkTopic starter

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2012, 05:21:29 PM »
People will do what they do.  I can't fault OSG for looking out for himself any more than I can fault Callie for having faith in the vote.  There's no real right or wrong here; it's easy to forget that sometimes.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2012, 05:25:07 PM »
People will do what they do.  I can't fault OSG for looking out for himself any more than I can fault Callie for having faith in the vote.  There's no real right or wrong here; it's easy to forget that sometimes.

I don't have faith in the Vote.. I have HOPE that people can look beyond themselves and think to the future.

There is a difference.

Given the outlook today..and the Hope that the Obama/McCain race built. this one is very much more of a 'Me vs Anyone else' outlook. That depresses the hell out of me.

Offline Hemingway

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2012, 05:26:40 PM »
Yes clearly that single historic event in  the history of all mankind is a gauge on how the world works more then seventy years ago. Not to mention Hitler failed. Hell , He failed down right spectacularly.
Not just are the jews still alive but they have there own country , one of the leading superpowers ended up having a black  president and  i'm pretty sure his approval rating is less then forty percent globally. I don't vote for the same reason that I don't belive in these vast conspiracies like the bilderberg group , bohemian groove and the Illuminati. It's something Sagan said.

The rise, stagnation and eventual breakup of empires is actually a fairly well-established theme of human history. I don't think it's that much of a stretch, especially given developments in the past ten years, to suggest that the same thing is happening to the United States. That's not to say that the US is necessarily headed for some lawless, dystopian future. I think Johan Galtung's opinions on the future of the US empire versus the US republic are worth looking into. To summarize here, he argues that the fall of the US empire can lead to: "[R]elief from the burden of Empire control and maintenance... could lead to a blossoming of the US Republic".

As for not believing in vast conspiracies, neither do I. But that's simply because they're just a distraction from the real problem, and represent a non-reality-based reaction to a very real problem. Because reality is a lot simpler than that. It doesn't take some sort of vast organization. It's just a result of corporations pursuing the one thing they understand: Profit. It's what happens when there's no regulations, no restraints on what they can do, which is the case in large parts of the world.

I know I go on and on about this guy, but I think that anyone who's serious about these issues should listen to Chris Hedges. I'll link his Empire of Illusion talk here, because it about exactly this.

Edit: I just realized that the talk I linked is the first one I saw of Hedges, and it's ... actually not that good. Watch Death of the Liberal Class instead.

Death of the Liberal Class
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 05:41:31 PM by Hemingway »

Offline Valerian

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2012, 05:49:07 PM »
People will do what they do.  I can't fault OSG for looking out for himself any more than I can fault Callie for having faith in the vote.  There's no real right or wrong here; it's easy to forget that sometimes.
There I must respectfully disagree.  I'm capable of being pretty cynical, but even so I refuse to accept the idea that looking out for oneself and looking out for everyone are mutually exclusive.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2012, 06:25:39 PM »
I don't have faith in the Vote.. I have HOPE that people can look beyond themselves and think to the future.

So do I.  But I don't believe a United States of America is required for that.

Even after Rome fell, generations lived among the ruins, growing up, having professions and callings, getting married, having families, growing old, living the human cycle.

We don't need an American Empire to live.

I'll agree it would be helpful if Americans reorganized the country along more sustainable, socially just lines.  But it's not a requirement.  And I don't intend on spending the remaining 20 to 30 or so fruitful years of my life trying to persuade grown people to pull their heads out of the corporations' rectums and do so.

I'd rather relocate to a community that already has these values, marry again, start a new family, and raise and educate a couple intelligent, free-thinking kids there.  I submit that is at least as valid a contribution to the future of the human race as standing outside the NYSE waiting to get arrested protesting against the American Empire.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2012, 06:32:26 PM »
There I must respectfully disagree.  I'm capable of being pretty cynical, but even so I refuse to accept the idea that looking out for oneself and looking out for everyone are mutually exclusive.

We the People.. that sums its right there. WE. Not ME. I am tired of seeing too much damn self-centered selfishiness dressed up as 'downsizing government' or 'self-regulating business practices'. I lost most of my retirement package in DAYS because it was soooo much better to reward greed and malfeasance rather than tending to the client and customer.


Every man is your brother.. we all enter and leave the world the same way.. only in how we live and interact do we leave a telling mark on the world.
By rushing to do anything but stand on the sidelines and declare that my (or your) actions do not matter... I diminish myself and everyone I could help.

Offline Hemingway

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2012, 06:39:46 PM »
We the People.. that sums its right there. WE. Not ME. I am tired of seeing too much damn self-centered selfishiness dressed up as 'downsizing government' or 'self-regulating business practices'. I lost most of my retirement package in DAYS because it was soooo much better to reward greed and malfeasance rather than tending to the client and customer.


Every man is your brother.. we all enter and leave the world the same way.. only in how we live and interact do we leave a telling mark on the world.
By rushing to do anything but stand on the sidelines and declare that my (or your) actions do not matter... I diminish myself and everyone I could help.

But that would be socialism.

Which is sort of the mantra of the so-called conservatives. ( I say so-called because there's nothing conservative about their radical capitalist ideology )

I think that's related to another problem that's very evident in the US: People voting against their own interests. It takes Machiavellian cunning to get people who live in poverty or very near to it to vote for politicians who line the pockets of the wealthy by denying basic rights to those very poor people, in the guise of "freedom".

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2012, 06:44:56 PM »
We the People.. that sums its right there. WE. Not ME. I am tired of seeing too much damn self-centered selfishiness dressed up as 'downsizing government' or 'self-regulating business practices'. I lost most of my retirement package in DAYS because it was soooo much better to reward greed and malfeasance rather than tending to the client and customer.


Every man is your brother.. we all enter and leave the world the same way.. only in how we live and interact do we leave a telling mark on the world.
By rushing to do anything but stand on the sidelines and declare that my (or your) actions do not matter... I diminish myself and everyone I could help.

But that would be socialism.

Which is sort of the mantra of the so-called conservatives. ( I say so-called because there's nothing conservative about their radical capitalist ideology )

I think that's related to another problem that's very evident in the US: People voting against their own interests. It takes Machiavellian cunning to get people who live in poverty or very near to it to vote for politicians who line the pockets of the wealthy by denying basic rights to those very poor people, in the guise of "freedom".

Oddly enough, I was listening to Egberto Willis's show this weekend, and apparently the Mormons are really big on this 'helping your brothers in need' thing.  I have to wonder how that jibes with Romney's corporatist 'Let's make a profit!' leanings.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2012, 06:52:15 PM »
I think that's related to another problem that's very evident in the US: People voting against their own interests. It takes Machiavellian cunning to get people who live in poverty or very near to it to vote for politicians who line the pockets of the wealthy by denying basic rights to those very poor people, in the guise of "freedom".

And this is another reason I'm relocating: the sheer number of lumpenproles who want to be the anal servants of the Forbes 400.  Let them get bar-coded and processed.

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2012, 02:25:51 AM »
I don't.  I'm in the process of moving my financial life offshore so that when this place falls apart and the goose-step becomes mandatory, I'll be somewhere far-off that no one cares about.

If you're wrong about the conspiracy theories, then you likely won't need to flee the country suddenly. But having your wealth in something other than American dollars might be risky, since foreign currencies tend to fluctuate so much more wildly than the US dollars, and might crash hard if the US dollar drops takes an unexpected turn. On the other hand, you could always invest in something else I suppose. You could always buy gold... and hope that the price of gold isn't artificially inflated like real estate was because of gold investing being pushed so hard by the hardcore conservative media like Fox News or Clear Channel (which owns Premiere Radio Networks, the syndication company responsible for bringing Coast to Coast AM to the nation every night, and is probably responsible for the strange right wing bent Coast to Coast took in recent years, which may be why Art Bell, the creator of Coast to Coast decided to leave Coast to Coast).

If you're right... gods, if you're right, the NSA already knows all about you and has you on The List. You've been running around talking about The Truth. Do you think that Elliquiy's membership wall can stop the NSA data collection efforts? Oh, wait. Never mind, we're on the PUBLIC side of the membership wall. They wouldn't even need to get in to see what you've written. They could have you traced back to your physical address in seconds, with satellites watching you if they wanted. If your ideas about the Bilderbergs are right and they control the government, and they start locking down the country to send people off to the FEMA death camps, well, I'm afraid they've already got your number because you made the mistake of talking about it on the internet, where information never, ever goes away.

On the other hand, if the conspiracy theories are right, that there is some shadow government secretly controlling the world governments, what makes you think that They'd let people talk about it on Coast to Coast AM, The History Channel, and so forth? Not unless it was all misinformation. Maybe... just maybe... The Bilderberg Group is exactly what they say that they are*, and instead, the secret leaders of the world is some cabal we've never heard of before, a cabal that operates out of black airplanes out of Area 52 in the Arizona desert. And maybe they're not in league with the Reptilian Grey alien menace, but are actually the thralls of the real Illuminati, the leprechauns that live in the center of the hollow earth.


* A group of world and business leaders that get together annually to talk about Big Things. They helped The West form NATO and win the Cold War. Unlike what many conspiracy theorists claim, the Bilderbergs aren't actually part of a cabal of Jewish bankers trying to take over the world.

Here's some links:
http://www.adl.org/rumors/bilderberg.asp
http://wonkette.com/474167/a-brief-guide-to-the-evil-2012-bilderberg-conference-in-virginia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group



EDIT: And you know what? I almost wish the Jews WOULD take over the world. They're nice people. They make tasty food. And they don't shove their religion down other people's throats. Hell, they don't even care what religion you are if you aren't Jewish. It would be a nicer thing than the theocracy that the GOP is trying to turn this country into. I, for one, welcome our new Jewish overlords. Shalom!  XD
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 02:37:00 AM by Stattick »

Offline Chris Brady

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2012, 05:22:49 AM »
EDIT: And you know what? I almost wish the Jews WOULD take over the world. They're nice people. They make tasty food. And they don't shove their religion down other people's throats. Hell, they don't even care what religion you are if you aren't Jewish. It would be a nicer thing than the theocracy that the GOP is trying to turn this country into. I, for one, welcome our new Jewish overlords. Shalom!  XD

They sorta do.  I mean, they created, and for the most part, still run Hollywood.

And I think Bilderberg is a Jewish last name...  Most anything ending with 'berg' is, i've been told.  Although I have no idea who they are.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2012, 06:26:11 AM »
'Berg' as a name-suffix, comes from the German word for 'mountain' (the Berghof was a fortress in the mountains).  A lot of European Jews have Germanic roots because, well, a lot of them fled from Germany and Central Europe is the birthplace of the Germanic languages.  If you understand German and happen across someone speaking Yiddish, you'll get about three words in four (something I did once to the chagrin of my mother-in-law's neighbor.)

If you want to go all-out, Bilderberg would mean 'picture mountain', or possibly 'mountain like a picture'.  [/linguistic hijack]

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2012, 06:36:36 AM »
'Berg' as a name-suffix, comes from the German word for 'mountain' (the Berghof was a fortress in the mountains).  A lot of European Jews have Germanic roots because, well, a lot of them fled from Germany and Central Europe is the birthplace of the Germanic languages.  If you understand German and happen across someone speaking Yiddish, you'll get about three words in four (something I did once to the chagrin of my mother-in-law's neighbor.)

If you want to go all-out, Bilderberg would mean 'picture mountain', or possibly 'mountain like a picture'.  [/linguistic hijack]

It's also a common name end element in Swedish (with the same word for mountain). Many middle-class family names formed here in the 19th century used words and stems that derived from nature: Bergfors ("mountain + rapids"), Lundberg ("grove + mountain"), Nordbeck/Nordström ("north + stream of water") and so on.

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2012, 11:19:56 AM »
British Admiral Mountbatten's family name was originally Battenberg.  It was changed, I believe, during WWI because of the feelings against Germany.

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2012, 01:35:47 PM »
They sorta do.  I mean, they created, and for the most part, still run Hollywood.

And I think Bilderberg is a Jewish last name...  Most anything ending with 'berg' is, i've been told.  Although I have no idea who they are.

If you'd read the links I posted, you see that the Bilderberg Group took their name from the first hotel they had their first annual meeting in. So, it was the name of a hotel.

Also, throw out everything you think you know about Jewish last names. The traditional Jewish naming convention was the same as the Arabic convention. So a person might be known as Adam, son of Isaac, son of Ishmael... and they could keep going on if they needed to.

The reason many Jews have German last names today, is because at one time, Germany was one of the most accepting of Jews, and one of the nicest places in Europe to live if you were Jewish. So, they had a high population of Jews. Germany was the first country in Europe to insist that everyone have a last name. The traditional Jewish system was considered to be lacking, so every Jew in the country had to take a last name. Most took one that related to their profession such as Silverstein, Schwartz, or Schultz.

Later, Germany went through an antisemitic phase, where it was not a nice place to live if you were Jewish. Many Jews left the country to move to other places where they could have a better life. They took their last names with them, since having last names was the thing that everyone was doing. (Later, Germany became a nice place to live if you're Jewish again. Like most European countries, antisemitism was a thing that came and went, like the tides.)

There are plenty of Jews that have last names that are English, Spanish, Italian, or any other nationality that you can think of, because they happened to live in those places instead of Germany when they were made to adopt European style last names.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2012, 11:26:02 AM »
Am I an awful Facebooker for pointing out when someone is clinging to the candidate that will trample on their personal activist hot-buttons?  There's a woman on my feed, who is constantly posting things like 'Has Obama gotten unemployment down to 5.4% yet?  SHARE if you think Obama has failed!'  Now, anyone with half a brain can see that unemployment isn't below 5.4%.  Of course, anyone paying attention can see that Congress has shot down every jobs bill that's gone before them, including the one for U.S. Veterans, so the question isn't a fair one.

Well, this woman is very vocal about Native American issues.  I think one of the reasons she friended me is because of my name on Facebook, which was given to me by a follower of the Cree Path (learned it from his adoptive grandmother, who was full-blood).  I - ah - happened to find a link about what Paul Ryan's budget would mean to 'Indian Country' on a Native American site.  I sort of plopped it on my Wall.  *looks innocent, halo gets tangled on the horns*

Offline Serephino

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2012, 03:28:45 PM »
Things like where this conversation is going really frustrate me.  The Forbes 400 is not the problem, but a symptom.  The problem is apathy!  The 1% are outnumbered by the 99% 99-1.  If we were on a battlefield and had those numbers, the 1% would piss themselves and run for the hills.  They run things only because we let them.  They run things because of people who spout the theories, but are content to sit behind that computer screen and say it's hopeless so they're going to continue to just sit there until it gets too bad, then they will run.

Things do look pretty hopeless, but I refuse to just sit here and be a pushover.  When big companies screw me over I am a major pain.  I am just one person so they give me what I want to shut me up and move on as usual.  But... what do you think would happen if everyone fought against being screwed as hard as I do?  It wouldn't be one annoying person to shut up, it would be thousands.  Something would have to change.

Look at both the American and French revolutions.  Change happened because people sat up and said I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.  We had farmers with pitchforks fighting the well armed, well funded, and better trained British army.  Those odds don't look good on paper, but they didn't tuck their tails between their legs and roll over.  While it's true France helped, I think their impact was overstated just a bit.  France didn't get involved until toward the end, and the Patriots were at least holding their ground.  Things weren't great, I'll admit that.  But...  When Washington's troops were holed up at Valley Forge trying to last the winter, did they give up and go home because things were too hard?  If they had, France's contributions wouldn't have made much difference if there was no one to still fight because it all seemed too hopeless.  Even if they had lost, I would still consider those men heroes because they fought for what they believed in. 

Right now the US is the Titanic, and we're headed for one huge iceberg.  There are 2 men that want to be captain.  At this point there's no way in hell we're getting past that iceberg unscathed, so the question becomes which captain can navigate us in a way that will cause the least amount of damage.  If we the passengers sit back and do nothing because we figure we're hitting the iceberg either way, so there's no point, we're all going to drown.       

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2012, 03:51:10 PM »
You're right Seraphino.. and yet what do I hear when I point this out. "My vote don't count.. so why bother."

That is the path to idiocy. We, the people, made this mess.. through apathy. The last 40 years didn't JUST happen. We let one president with Imperial tendencies build an attitude of apathy and non participation that let a few people set the course of this nation over the years. The ivory tower intellectuals on one side dismissed the unions in their party, and in so doing weakened their own party. The other turtled down and instead of continuing the course of fiscal responsibility, sold their integrety and when the leaders started to lose control they sold their souls not once.. but twice to groups with interestes and outlooks outside those of the party while continuing the tradition of building an imperial executive that men from both parties have used as justification. We have a presidency that is increasingly less accountable to anyone at all, one party who is so split by special interests they can't work to restore the foundations of their own party, while the other party is so intent on being in control that the words 'bipartisan', compromise and negotiate are considered bad.

I find it ironic that it's been the self professed goal of the last 3 years for one group within the GOP to sabotage the president for the sole goal of getting the White House back.. I wonder how many lives have been made harder, how many people have lost everything because a few intolerant men want 'That Man' out of the White House.. how much better could we be, if we had men like we used to have in office who could work together rather than hate each other.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2012, 03:56:21 PM »

Right now the US is the Titanic, and we're headed for one huge iceberg.  There are 2 men that want to be captain.  At this point there's no way in hell we're getting past that iceberg unscathed, so the question becomes which captain can navigate us in a way that will cause the least amount of damage.  If we the passengers sit back and do nothing because we figure we're hitting the iceberg either way, so there's no point, we're all going to drown.       


My advice is to be one of the first to the lifeboats.  Most of the 99% are lumpenproles who are utterly convinced that, if they move their noses so much as an inch from the corporate rectum, America will turn into a lazy freeloading pinko-commie Third World country.  They've been completely brainwashed.

Of course, they'll come around eventually.  Eventually the lumpenproles will realize that Bill Gates and Ted Turner and the Waltons are not their friends, they're not going to get any wealth "trickled down" to them, and neoconservatism was one of history's greatest con jobs.  By the way, the masses will figure this out right around the time the Wal-Mart trucks stop running and the homeless and unemployed start getting rounded up and shipped off to the soylent factories. 

Trust me when I say you don't want to be here when things get that bad....unless you're way off the beaten path, off the grid, and self-sufficient, and like the survivalist lifestyle where your hand never gets more than a few feet from your Browning.  But I say, why live like that when there are plenty of decently prosperous places around the world with reasonably stable governments and at least fair to good standards of living?  Where you can spend a Friday night at a pub or at the cinema with friends, rather than in a cabin cleaning your guns. 

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2012, 04:05:47 PM »
My advice is to be one of the first to the lifeboats.  Most of the 99% are lumpenproles who are utterly convinced that, if they move their noses so much as an inch from the corporate rectum, America will turn into a lazy freeloading pinko-commie Third World country.  They've been completely brainwashed.

Of course, they'll come around eventually.  Eventually the lumpenproles will realize that Bill Gates and Ted Turner and the Waltons are not their friends, they're not going to get any wealth "trickled down" to them, and neoconservatism was one of history's greatest con jobs.  By the way, the masses will figure this out right around the time the Wal-Mart trucks stop running and the homeless and unemployed start getting rounded up and shipped off to the soylent factories. 

Trust me when I say you don't want to be here when things get that bad....unless you're way off the beaten path, off the grid, and self-sufficient, and like the survivalist lifestyle where your hand never gets more than a few feet from your Browning.  But I say, why live like that when there are plenty of decently prosperous places around the world with reasonably stable governments and at least fair to good standards of living?  Where you can spend a Friday night at a pub or at the cinema with friends, rather than in a cabin cleaning your guns.

Gee.. and your outlook towards the 99 is the same as the one percenters. Nice to see you have such high thoughts about us. Don't see why none of us like discussing things in a rational logical manner with you.

Your solution to everything.. Hide and turtle down as we self destruct as a country since we can't magically undo the last 30 to 40 years of apathy and folks hiding from the truth.. since we can't POSSIBLY elect a man the GOP dislikes.. or enact anything that the 'Illuniati' disapproves up..

Your advice? Give up and stock up on potables. Do even less for your fellow man.

Please.. don't offer it anymore we've heard it before.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2012, 04:20:39 PM »

Your solution to everything.. Hide and turtle down as we self destruct as a country since we can't magically undo the last 30 to 40 years of apathy and folks hiding from the truth.. since we can't POSSIBLY elect a man the GOP dislikes.. or enact anything that the 'Illuniati' disapproves up..

Your advice? Give up and stock up on potables. Do even less for your fellow man.

Please.. don't offer it anymore we've heard it before.

Actually if you read what I wrote, my advice was not really to hide and hunker down.  I said that could be a solution, but I think it's clear my actual advice was to emigrate and then live in plain sight, like a normal human being, rather than vainly struggle to turn a hundred million lemmings from their rush to the cliff.

I'm noticing a common thread in folks' reactions to what I am saying here where people seem to equate leaving the United States with giving up on the human race.  I'm not quite sure how people arrive at that conclusion unless they've seriously bought into the the whole "American exceptionalism" notion.  Rest assured, there is life--and fulfilling life at that!--outside the USA.  There's a whole planet there.  Even...other countries.  Take a look at Google Maps and you can see it's not "here there be dragons!" outside American borders.  There are writers and architects and accountants and tree-trimmers and dentists and bartenders and masons and lawyers and farmers and long-haul truckers and teachers and soldiers and welders and every other profession there.

So please, if you're going to argue with what I'm advocating, at least argue with what I'm actually advocating, and not the "run and hide in a bunker!" straw man you created there.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2012, 04:29:38 PM »
No Oldschoolgamer, you're not offering adivce. You advise giving up and running away. According to you nothing ever changes, we're done already. Nothing can change. Nothing will change, unless a shadowy cabal allows it. 2008, to me, was a good election. For the first time in a decade we had two fairly moderate men running for office. Both of whom had a reputation for trying to build a consensus and bipartisan efforts. I voted for the one who lost.. because I was SURE if he won.. this time around he could drop Palin.. because he'd have been GOP enough to to convince the moderates to back his play.  We'd be on the road, we being the modern conservative moderates in the party, to getting our own house in order.

Instead we got the guy who had to face neo-conservatives without a strong party behind him and did the best he could. We had to take 10 months of men preaching fear and 'us vs them' with a very narrow definition of 'us'.

The difference between you and the men who are pushing the status quo in my opinion is the flavor of fear you're preaching. You preach isolation and standoffishness just like they do.

I'm sorry.. I have seen what teams and compromise can do. I'm not going to sell hope for fear. Not now. Never again. I am 44 today..and most of my life has been spent watching Fear rule the nation.. I won't give up on my nation.. and I won't allow fear to rule me or push me into the shadows.

I won't be posting anymore today.. I'm going to enjoy my GD birthday.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 04:30:56 PM by Callie Del Noire »

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2012, 04:33:54 PM »
In the vein of what Callie's been saying about WE THE PEOPLE, I submit to the audience's approval the following clip from the Daily Show.


For those of you who don't care to watch the clip, summary of it as follows.

See Best F*@kcing News Team.

See Best F*@kcing News Team go to Tampa and Charlotte conventions.

See Best F*@kcing News Team talk to a bunch of people who say that we need to stop the negativity and get down to business.

See Best F*@kcing News Team ask said people who's to blame for the negativity and lack of solutions.

See Best F*@kcing News Team hear that it's the other party who is to blame for all that's wrong with America.


Callie, don't know if this follows your line of reasoning, but the people are stupid.  We had control...eh, I'll say seventy years ago, of the political process.  Then we somehow turned control over to the media and the politicians, a bunch of self-serving sociopaths to whom public service is like jumbo shrimp, and now we're getting dragged around on our lead by those same people.

Offline Chelemar

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2012, 05:24:58 PM »
Quote
Stop the finger pointing.  Just stop it
.   XD priceless.

But, yeah it's, we all need to take the blame and throw everything out and start from scratch. 

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2012, 05:34:30 PM »
No Oldschoolgamer, you're not offering adivce. You advise giving up and running away. According to you nothing ever changes, we're done already. Nothing can change. Nothing will change, unless a shadowy cabal allows it.

Have you ever read Who Moved My Cheese?  I highly recommend it.  Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F

To bottom-line it, cheese moves.  They move your cheese.  Things change.  America was once the best game in town, but that's in the process of going away.  The cheese here is getting stale, and dwindling.  So it's not "giving up and running away" to look for new cheese.  It's life.  It's the acceptance of change.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2012, 05:43:27 PM »
.   XD priceless.

But, yeah it's, we all need to take the blame and throw everything out and start from scratch.

And humans are so scared of that, to be looked at and ostracized for making a potentially bad choice.  But taking responsibility cand be a good thing, but everyone refuses to even go that way.

Humanity as a whole is a pretty negative race of people, always assuming the worse, often never expecting any good.

OGS is right in a way, but sadly, he'll find that there are no 'good' countries out there.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2012, 05:50:40 PM »

OGS is right in a way, but sadly, he'll find that there are no 'good' countries out there.

No. He's not.

We don't find good countries.. We MAKE them. No one is going to magically fix the problems. Citizens should work on their country, not stand around and blame those whose self-interest has led them to manipulate things while they willfully or ignorantly stood by.

Offline Chelemar

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2012, 05:53:46 PM »
Have you ever read Who Moved My Cheese?  I highly recommend it.  Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F

To bottom-line it, cheese moves.  They move your cheese.  Things change.  America was once the best game in town, but that's in the process of going away.  The cheese here is getting stale, and dwindling.  So it's not "giving up and running away" to look for new cheese.  It's life.  It's the acceptance of change.

 Wow, I seem to remember something about rats... sinking ship.  But here's the thing.  America isn't a ship.  People aren't rats.  People have higher reasoning, people can hope.  They have compassion. 

One thing that has been so prevalent recently is the need for some to foster a sense of "what's mine is mine."  When I grew up, we were taught to share.  You didn't eat in front of someone without offering to share.  EVERYTHING.  If you had a candy bar, your friend got half.  If you came in from playing to get a drink, your friend got one too. 

It is like that all the time here still, not just in times of disaster.  We have had family and friends live with us constantly because they have lost their home, apartment, what-have-you.  Cause friends and family suck it up, move over, and make do.  We take care of each other!

Another friend is having to move; she just called today.  She needs everything, has nothing.  We are going into our closets and giving her stuff, into our shelves collecting dishes, pots, classes.  Is the stuff perfect?  No.  But it's good enough. 

That's MY American spirit. 

Offline Serephino

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2012, 06:09:40 PM »
Okay, OSG, let's look at it this way....

America is doomed.  You move to another country right now because these corporate parasites are fixated on America at the moment.  Eventually America will be nothing but a dried up husk.  What does a parasite do when its host is dead?  It looks for another!

You think it's going to be China.  You could be right.  No matter what, because of globalization the fall of the US is going to be felt all over the world.  Right now we are major world oil consumers.  Argentina sells us oil, don't they?  Only China consumes oil at the rate we do, so yeah, the oil supply will be extended, but how will Argentina make up for that loss?  What will the Middle East do?

China is worse off than us already, so if these big bad secret people move there, China won't last long.  They're growing fast, but at a rate that makes them unstable.  So after China, then who?  If the widely held belief is once they get a foothold nothing can be done, so you might as well turn tail and run, you will eventually run out of places to run to.  What then?  You may argue that you'll be dead by the time it gets that bad, but do you really care so little for future generations?  Do you have kids, nieces, nephews, young cousins?  Can you really look a child you care about in the face and tell them they have no future because fighting back was too hard for you? 

There's a huge difference between moving cheese and having your cheese taken away completely.  Yes, times have changed, but short sightedness and greed is a plague that will keep spreading if left unopposed.  I don't fight for myself, but for future generations.   

Offline Hemingway

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2012, 07:08:09 PM »
Okay, OSG, let's look at it this way....
China is worse off than us already, so if these big bad secret people move there, China won't last long.  They're growing fast, but at a rate that makes them unstable.  So after China, then who?  If the widely held belief is once they get a foothold nothing can be done, so you might as well turn tail and run, you will eventually run out of places to run to.  What then?  You may argue that you'll be dead by the time it gets that bad, but do you really care so little for future generations?  Do you have kids, nieces, nephews, young cousins?  Can you really look a child you care about in the face and tell them they have no future because fighting back was too hard for you? 


OSG makes the mistake - and you replicate it here - of assuming that it's a conspiracy driven consciously by a group of unscrupulous individuals. I don't think it is. The scenario you describe, where they move on to China, or wherever else, isn't realistic because the conditions aren't right. If Chris Hedges is to be believed, what we're seeing today is the result of over a hundred years of gradual change, from around the time of the Great War, and the advent of modern mass propaganda, and the breaking of American radical movements in the period that followed. The conditions now, especially in a place like China, are very different.

That's not to say it can't happen. I think it's very likely it will. Just not in the way you describe. The important thing is not to think of it as some sort of evil entity.

More broadly, I see a lot of people telling OSG he's wrong, that there's ways of fixing the problem. I am genuinely interested in hearing what ideas people have, because I'm having, and have for a very long time had great trouble figuring out just what the solutions are ( I think I can say categorically that there is no single fix for a problem of this magnitude ).

I mean, I think I know what the long-term requirements are. I think that, in the long run, we need to either seriously regulate capitalism, or look for alternatives. But how do you get someone - someone who sincerely believes that reducing taxes for the incredibly rich while they themselves struggle to get by, someone who thinks that "freedom" means not having the state provide healthcare, and who thinks "socialism" is the end of all things - how do you get that person to vote for a sane alternative?

Offline Vekseid

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2012, 10:02:45 PM »
His doomsaying has been going on for a long time, though the reasons have changed. Peak oil was supposed to have destroyed us already.

This requires that people hoarding paper and other intangible concepts such as owning things half a continent away still have those things recognized for their currently intended function in OSG's doomsday scenario. If we end up in truly dire need of a new currency for example, someone can always build a better bitcoin (And become fantastically rich in the process. It's anonymous founder is no doubt a multimillionaire now).

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #76 on: September 22, 2012, 12:35:01 PM »
His doomsaying has been going on for a long time, though the reasons have changed. Peak oil was supposed to have destroyed us already.

Actually it already is destroying us, in countless unsung ways.

For starters: do you really think the actual inflation rate for the man on the street has been the 0 to 2.5% or so the CPI numbers indicate?  Around 2000, you could get a loaf of bread for around $1.29, so you can still get one for $1.69 or so, right?  And how's that $4 a gallon gasoline working out for you?  They conveniently omit food and energy prices--so what the statistic actually means is "there is no inflation in the price of everything that's not getting more expensive."  But around the world, food and energy prices have been in a relentless upward spiral.  This was a major contributor to the forces that led up to the Arab Spring revolts.

And where's the growth?  America isn't growing.  Europe isn't growing.  China's growth (which is almost certainly exaggerated as it is--the government there has millions of people building empty cities in the desert to keep unemployment down) is throttling back.  You've got a few countries that entered into this way below trendline that are growing.  And this is in spite of the loosest monetary policies in several decades, if not ever.  In spite of America basically pulling over a trillion dollars a year out of its ass.  Now the Federal Reserve has enacted a "the beatings will continue until morale improve" monetary policy of injecting $85 billion in fiat money into the economy each month until unemployment drops.

This is Peak Oil.  This is central banks and governments attempting, on a massive scale, to substitute money and credit for the cheap energy that's no longer there.  And it's failing.  All we're getting is inflation, which for the average man is about 10% a year now.  And this isn't the only such desperate gambit.  Consider the shale gas boom, where for another decade of cheap natural gas, and to make tar sands and shale oil viable for a few years, we're destroying aquifers and water supplies across America.  It's like a crack addict desperately taking apart his own furniture to try and scrounge up some change for one last hit.

Quote
This requires that people hoarding paper and other intangible concepts such as owning things half a continent away still have those things recognized for their currently intended function in OSG's doomsday scenario. If we end up in truly dire need of a new currency for example, someone can always build a better bitcoin (And become fantastically rich in the process. It's anonymous founder is no doubt a multimillionaire now).

Uh...there's gold.  Bitcoins are an interesting experiment, but useful only to über-geeks.  In order to be useful as a currency, something has to be, well, usable.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #77 on: September 22, 2012, 01:06:55 PM »
Currency is a compact form of barter.  It simplifies trade so that you don't need to figure out the equivalence between cows and lumber, or chickens and bread.  It doesn't matter if your currency is gold, silver, beads, or kroopchiks.  If I do enough work to earn 7 kroopchiks, then I can purchase the product of another that is equivalent to 7 kroopchiks worth of labor.  The problem comes about when people are assigning their work-value an unrealistic number of kroopchiks.

Barter

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #78 on: September 22, 2012, 04:04:56 PM »
Currency is a compact form of barter.  It simplifies trade so that you don't need to figure out the equivalence between cows and lumber, or chickens and bread.  It doesn't matter if your currency is gold, silver, beads, or kroopchiks.  If I do enough work to earn 7 kroopchiks, then I can purchase the product of another that is equivalent to 7 kroopchiks worth of labor.  The problem comes about when people are assigning their work-value an unrealistic number of kroopchiks.

Barter

Or, in this case, when crude oil gets scarce, the standard of living goes down as energy costs eat into consumers' pockets and drive up the cost of doing business, and so to keep things rolling the Central Bank throws billions of kroopchiks into circulation to "get the economy moving."

Energy issues aside, bitcoins will never be a generally-accepted currency.  Cybercurrency may find a niche amongst the technorati, but the common man on the street is going to use something tangible, that he can understand.  A post-collapse economy will likely result in gold and silver being the "kroopchiks" in common usage, along with a heavy dose of barter.  Communities that retain a reasonable degree of control and organization may use their own scrip for common, garden-variety transactions amongst plebs.

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #79 on: September 24, 2012, 04:43:26 PM »
Energy issues aside, bitcoins will never be a generally-accepted currency.  Cybercurrency may find a niche amongst the technorati, but the common man on the street is going to use something tangible, that he can understand.

You say that as if people understand what the Dollar (or Euro) is and how it works.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #80 on: September 24, 2012, 05:31:05 PM »
Remember 'Quayle moments' and 'Bushisms'?  Romney had one this weekend at a fund raiser.

Quote
Romney’s wife, Ann, was in attendance, and the candidate spoke of the concern he had for her when her plane had to make an emergency landing Friday en route to Santa Monica because of an electrical  malfunction.

“I appreciate the fact that she is on the ground, safe and sound. And I don’t think she knows just how worried some of us were,” Romney said. “When you have a fire in an aircraft, there’s no place to go, exactly, there’s no — and you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem. So it’s very dangerous. And she was choking and rubbing her eyes. Fortunately, there was enough oxygen for the pilot and copilot to make a safe landing in Denver. But she’s safe and sound.”

I'm glad that the fire didn't end in any injuries; if someone had been able to open a window, there definitely would have been a lot.

Offline Question MarkTopic starter

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #81 on: September 24, 2012, 05:45:55 PM »
Although they're funny, I never put much weight to slips of the tongue because, most of the time, they are just that.  People get words mixed up in their heads, and sometimes it all comes out wrong.  I'm sure Romney knows the physics of how plane windows work, but his statement just came out wrong.  It's pretty low to criticize his character or intelligence over it.

It's most definitely okay to laugh, though.  Point and laugh, people, point and laugh!

Offline Chris Brady

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #82 on: September 24, 2012, 07:36:46 PM »
People were doing that with Bush, because of his accent.  I mean, the man was a Fighter Pilot.  You can't be stupid if you can fly an F-15 people...

But, I'd like to point out that the title of this thread has always been a 'problem'.  People don't honestly care about the actual issues, just their perception of them.  And if that means doing something stupid, or smart, because of it?  So be it.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #83 on: September 24, 2012, 07:37:56 PM »
People were doing that with Bush, because of his accent.  I mean, the man was a Fighter Pilot.  You can't be stupid if you can fly an F-15 people...

But, I'd like to point out that the title of this thread has always been a 'problem'.  People don't honestly care about the actual issues, just their perception of them.  And if that means doing something stupid, or smart, because of it?  So be it.

You clearly haven't worked with Pilots.. let me tell you!

Offline Question MarkTopic starter

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #84 on: September 24, 2012, 07:43:07 PM »
People were doing that with Bush, because of his accent.  I mean, the man was a Fighter Pilot.  You can't be stupid if you can fly an F-15 people...

I get your point, but I can tell you from personal experience (with myself)...

Technical Knowledge =/= Common Sense

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #85 on: September 24, 2012, 08:14:04 PM »
Although they're funny, I never put much weight to slips of the tongue because, most of the time, they are just that.  People get words mixed up in their heads, and sometimes it all comes out wrong.  I'm sure Romney knows the physics of how plane windows work, but his statement just came out wrong.  It's pretty low to criticize his character or intelligence over it.

It's most definitely okay to laugh, though.  Point and laugh, people, point and laugh!

Considering all of the stupid things that Romney's said or done, I believe that he is, in fact, stupid enough not to know how the physics of high altitude flight works.

Oh, and Bush Jr: he was an alcoholic and a cokehead. Neither of those drugs are exactly good for your brain or IQ.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #86 on: September 24, 2012, 09:53:03 PM »
You say that as if people understand what the Dollar (or Euro) is and how it works.

Perhaps.  But even those who don't know the inner workings of the Federal Reserve know what dollars are, what they're worth, and how to use them in everyday life.  Not so with bitcoins.  Kind of like the internal combustion engine: even those who couldn't tell a radiator from a battery know enough to put the key in the ignition, turn it, and put the transmission into Drive and use the pedals and steering wheel to control speed and trajectory.  That's all the knowledge required to operate an automobile.  Now if it breaks down, yes, then there's a problem for the person who doesn't know what's under the hood.

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #87 on: September 25, 2012, 12:06:56 AM »
Perhaps.  But even those who don't know the inner workings of the Federal Reserve know what dollars are, what they're worth, and how to use them in everyday life.  Not so with bitcoins.  Kind of like the internal combustion engine: even those who couldn't tell a radiator from a battery know enough to put the key in the ignition, turn it, and put the transmission into Drive and use the pedals and steering wheel to control speed and trajectory.  That's all the knowledge required to operate an automobile.  Now if it breaks down, yes, then there's a problem for the person who doesn't know what's under the hood.

All I need to know about bitcoins is how to get them, how to spend them, and how to transfer them into other forms of currency and/or put them in my checking account. Same as what I need to know about the dollar, traveler checks, pesos, yen, euros, stocks, bonds, gold bricks, property, yams, or any other form of wealth.

Offline Will

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #88 on: September 25, 2012, 11:31:15 AM »
Perhaps.  But even those who don't know the inner workings of the Federal Reserve know what dollars are, what they're worth, and how to use them in everyday life.  Not so with bitcoins.  Kind of like the internal combustion engine: even those who couldn't tell a radiator from a battery know enough to put the key in the ignition, turn it, and put the transmission into Drive and use the pedals and steering wheel to control speed and trajectory.  That's all the knowledge required to operate an automobile.  Now if it breaks down, yes, then there's a problem for the person who doesn't know what's under the hood.

Is it really that important that a currency be tangible?  Plenty of people rely on debit cards and have their checks direct-deposited straight to the bank.  It's not really that complicated to think of money as a value or concept, rather than a number of bills in your wallet.  I don't have much more faith in people than you do, but seriously, that's just silly.

And there's no reason bitcoins can't be a valid currency, even now.  Obviously you have to be able to spend them, and that's a problem, but it's only a problem because people don't care enough about bitcoin to create a demand, so there's no reason for businesses to go to the trouble of accepting it.  If the proverbial shit suddenly hit the fan, and the dollar was suddenly less than viable, the demand would be there.  Maybe it's not a perfect alternative to the dollar, but it's a pretty interesting start if nothing else.  Maybe somebody can do better.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #89 on: September 25, 2012, 03:13:04 PM »
All I need to know about bitcoins is how to get them, how to spend them, and how to transfer them into other forms of currency and/or put them in my checking account. Same as what I need to know about the dollar, traveler checks, pesos, yen, euros, stocks, bonds, gold bricks, property, yams, or any other form of wealth.

From what I've read, you have to "find" them using umpteen gazillion bazillion processor loops, preferably knowing how to trick your PC into using its GPU to perform calculations as well, using a process that takes anywhere from hours to days (if your processor doesn't overheat from overclocking in the process).  And transferring them to anyone involves an equally intricate mathematical process.  As opposed to swiping a debit card or handing a cashier some green pieces of paper with dead Presidents on them.

If you're a super-nerd, you take all that for granted.  And nothing's wrong with that.  If you can find other super-nerds capable of such technical feats and y'all want to do business in Bitcoins, I fully support your right to do so.  And who knows--if we avoid collapse and Moore's Law keeps on trucking, by the 2030s or so computing power might indeed become so ubiquitous that we all have wristbands or similar "intelligent garb" with 8 octo-core 20 gigahertz 256-bit processors capable of performing Bitcoin calculations in a matter of a couple seconds for buying a latte at Starbucks or paying a month's rent.  But not yet.  So Bitcoins are "not ready for prime time" as a means of exchange for the general public...however much we might want them to be.

Offline Rune

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #90 on: September 25, 2012, 05:38:46 PM »
Anyone see 60 minutes with Romney? He explained his position on the tax cuts. He actually made some points that I hadn't heard before, stating how his does want to cut taxes, but will also cut deductions and tax credits. Frankly, I think President Obama has some good intentions, but has no idea how to properly implement them. I get the feeling that while President Obama has good intentions, Mr. Romney would be better at actually getting things done. Cutting the military budget is very scary. Especially with what is going on between China and Japan, not to mention the Middle East. I do not agree with everything Romney says. His lifestyle makes his background not representative of my own. Then again, the president didn't even grow up in this country, so his background does not match either.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #91 on: September 25, 2012, 05:59:34 PM »
Was that the interview where he said that uninsured people should just go to the ER?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #92 on: September 25, 2012, 06:21:50 PM »
Anyone see 60 minutes with Romney? He explained his position on the tax cuts. He actually made some points that I hadn't heard before, stating how his does want to cut taxes, but will also cut deductions and tax credits. Frankly, I think President Obama has some good intentions, but has no idea how to properly implement them. I get the feeling that while President Obama has good intentions, Mr. Romney would be better at actually getting things done. Cutting the military budget is very scary. Especially with what is going on between China and Japan, not to mention the Middle East. I do not agree with everything Romney says. His lifestyle makes his background not representative of my own. Then again, the president didn't even grow up in this country, so his background does not match either.

The vibe I got.. he was sticking to his talking points list. He talks a good game when he doesn't go off script (and he sticks better to it than his running mate.. ) but I don't think he can be trusted NOT to do what is strickly best for himself. He's reformatted himself so many times over the years that it's impossisble to get a read on what he'd actually do.

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #93 on: September 25, 2012, 06:24:49 PM »
He's reformatted himself so many times over the years that it's impossisble to get a read on what he'd actually do.

Actually, Callie, I disagree.  His constant reformatting has made it impossible to not get a read on what he'd do.

Mitt Romney will do is whatever is best for Mitt Romney.  No matter how sleazy, unethical, or betraying of principle it might be.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #94 on: September 25, 2012, 06:28:53 PM »
Actually, Callie, I disagree.  His constant reformatting has made it impossible to not get a read on what he'd do.

Mitt Romney will do is whatever is best for Mitt Romney.  No matter how sleazy, unethical, or betraying of principle it might be.

Thing is.. will he burn his allies when/if he gets in office.. or just continue building the 'Imperial Presidency' like the last 2 presidents?

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #95 on: September 25, 2012, 06:45:11 PM »
Anyone see 60 minutes with Romney? He explained his position on the tax cuts. He actually made some points that I hadn't heard before, stating how his does want to cut taxes, but will also cut deductions and tax credits. Frankly, I think President Obama has some good intentions, but has no idea how to properly implement them. I get the feeling that while President Obama has good intentions, Mr. Romney would be better at actually getting things done. Cutting the military budget is very scary. Especially with what is going on between China and Japan, not to mention the Middle East. I do not agree with everything Romney says. His lifestyle makes his background not representative of my own. Then again, the president didn't even grow up in this country, so his background does not match either.

It's rather hard for Obama to get anything done when the GOP reflexively and dogmatically oppose his every move.  Over the past few years I've come to hate the Republicans.  Seriously.  Even Reagan would reach across the aisle and compromise to move the business of the nation forward. 

The only reason Romney might be better at getting things done is if the GOP manages to gain control of both houses of Congress.

Offline Rune

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2012, 06:53:48 PM »
President Obama has done his share of walking away from the table too. In his book he even stated that you could make unreasonable demands, only capitulate 10% then blame others for being obstructionists.  Part of being a leader is figuring out a way to get both sides to work together. Not saying the Romney can do any better when the Democrats play the same game, but Obama has shown he can't.

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #97 on: September 25, 2012, 07:08:59 PM »
Well, when the Senate Minority Leader (McConnell, and Boehner didn't step too far away from that) is saying that his primary goal is to get Obama out in one term, it doesn't take much to determine how much compromise will be happening.  Compromise is when both sides give a little to come to a middle ground that's got something for everyone, even if it doesn't have everything for anyone.

Offline Rune

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #98 on: September 25, 2012, 07:21:47 PM »
Ms. Pelosi said the same thing before the current administration. (It was phrased as one of her excuses for not knowing about waterboarding) Not to mention how it was just a coincidence that she owned stock in every company that got bailout funds. Unfortunately neither side is willing to work together. Too bad they are so ingrained in the system. I really don't see anything changing in the near future.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #99 on: September 25, 2012, 07:35:38 PM »
President Obama has done his share of walking away from the table too. In his book he even stated that you could make unreasonable demands, only capitulate 10% then blame others for being obstructionists.  Part of being a leader is figuring out a way to get both sides to work together. Not saying the Romney can do any better when the Democrats play the same game, but Obama has shown he can't.

The President never made it a point of saying, in public, of spending the last 2 years making sure the other side didn't get reelected. That was the declared goal of the house majority leader 2 years ago.

Offline Valerian

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #100 on: September 26, 2012, 09:09:44 AM »
Anyone see 60 minutes with Romney? He explained his position on the tax cuts. He actually made some points that I hadn't heard before, stating how his does want to cut taxes, but will also cut deductions and tax credits. Frankly, I think President Obama has some good intentions, but has no idea how to properly implement them. I get the feeling that while President Obama has good intentions, Mr. Romney would be better at actually getting things done. Cutting the military budget is very scary. Especially with what is going on between China and Japan, not to mention the Middle East. I do not agree with everything Romney says. His lifestyle makes his background not representative of my own. Then again, the president didn't even grow up in this country, so his background does not match either.
There's "not representative" and then there's "lacking in any form of empathy." 

Romney is the one who said, in response to criticisms about his plans for higher education and student loans, that students just needed to 'shop around' and try to avoid taking out loans to pay for college.  He's the one who, when speaking to students in Ohio, suggested that they borrow money from their parents if they have to in order to start a business.  Because everyone's parents just happen to have half a million or so lying around that they'd be glad to lend their kids, right?

He simply cannot fathom the idea of not being rich, of having that comfortable money cushion to fall back on, and most of the time doesn't even pretend to try.  He's already labelled almost half the country freeloaders.  You can argue that when he said it 'wasn't his job to worry about those people' he was referring only to worrying about getting their votes, but given everything else he's said and done, I can't believe that was all he meant.  If by some miracle he is elected, he'll still consider those people to be freeloaders, only after whatever handouts they can grab, and he will act accordingly.

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #101 on: September 26, 2012, 11:49:22 AM »
There's "not representative" and then there's "lacking in any form of empathy." 

Romney is the one who said, in response to criticisms about his plans for higher education and student loans, that students just needed to 'shop around' and try to avoid taking out loans to pay for college. 

Right.  And in today's world, how are you supposed to be competitive with the rich legacy kids that go to Yale (much like Romney, though he isn't a Yaleite) when the best that the average family can come up with without taking out loans is to send kids to a local community college?  And even then, the kids might have to work a part-time job somewhere to help pay...

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #102 on: September 26, 2012, 11:55:43 AM »
I'd point out that both FDR and Kennedy were men of the upper class, coming from wealthy families and not experienced with privation, and both were very empathetic with the situation of the lower class. 

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #103 on: September 26, 2012, 12:00:32 PM »
Totally agreed.  But I attribute more to the fact that FDR And JFK understood that the common man was the working backbone of the great USA, so anything that helped them helped the country.  Good luck telling today's 'job creators' that and not igniting a firestorm of WE BUILT IT and SOCIALISM!

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #104 on: September 26, 2012, 12:04:56 PM »
Oh, fully agreed.  I was putting them up as counters to Romney in particular, not the idea that 'rich folks can't understand poor folks.'  So Mitt can't really fall back on 'Well, I never had any problem with it.  There must be something wrong with you.'

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #105 on: September 26, 2012, 12:20:24 PM »
I know this is from another thread, but it really ires me how much stupidity Romney has shown the American public...and that I still know that there are people who are going to vote for him.  People who would firmly be within the 47% that was his first fuck-up in this chain of them.  And why are they supporting this flip-flopper?

"Obama supports gay marriage!"

>_<

Online Avis habilis

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #106 on: September 26, 2012, 12:22:50 PM »
Single-issue voters will settle on some pretty peculiar single issues.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #107 on: September 26, 2012, 03:45:54 PM »
I am so sick of hearing 'failed policies'.  You know who failed us?  The GOP take-over of 2010.  How many jobs bills did they pass?  How many bills did they put up to repeal Obamacare?  Thier failed policies (the same ones Romney would like to support) are driving this country to ruin.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #108 on: September 26, 2012, 10:47:41 PM »
I am so sick of hearing 'failed policies'.  You know who failed us?  The GOP take-over of 2010.  How many jobs bills did they pass?  How many bills did they put up to repeal Obamacare?  Thier failed policies (the same ones Romney would like to support) are driving this country to ruin.

Mitch McConnell: Top Priority, Make Obama a One Term President

House Speaker Mitch McConnell ladies and gents.. the man who the President HAS to work with in the house to get things going. So if his attitude is that.. how much do you think got done in the last 2 years?

Offline MasterMischief

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #109 on: September 27, 2012, 06:29:44 PM »
...but Obama is the 'divider'.   ::)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #110 on: September 27, 2012, 07:31:01 PM »
...but Obama is the 'divider'.   ::)

No .. He isn't. It's the entire GOP

Offline Elias

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #111 on: September 28, 2012, 03:04:00 PM »
It's rather hard for Obama to get anything done when the GOP reflexively and dogmatically oppose his every move.  Over the past few years I've come to hate the Republicans.  Seriously.  Even Reagan would reach across the aisle and compromise to move the business of the nation forward. 

The only reason Romney might be better at getting things done is if the GOP manages to gain control of both houses of Congress.

He controlled the Congress and the Senate for the first 2 years, President Obama is an unequivocal failure. The Economic policies belong to him alone, because what Bush spent is a drop in the bucket when compared to Obama and the only thing he takes credit for (Foreign policy) Was all implemented by the man he bashes at every turn (Bush).

Offline Question MarkTopic starter

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #112 on: September 28, 2012, 03:10:50 PM »
He controlled the Congress and the Senate for the first 2 years, President Obama is an unequivocal failure. The Economic policies belong to him alone, because what Bush spent is a drop in the bucket when compared to Obama and the only thing he takes credit for (Foreign policy) Was all implemented by the man he bashes at every turn (Bush).

There's plenty wrong with this argument, but I'm frankly too tired to dissect all of its flaws.  Instead, I'll just ask that someone else do so.  *yawn*

G'night everyone.

Offline Rune

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #113 on: September 28, 2012, 03:59:42 PM »
So if I am reading your argument correctly, Even if he does get reelected, he will still have the GOP against him and still won't be able to get anything passed. As good as his intentions may be, actions speak louder than words. If is so hindered that he can't take action, (even if it is not his fault) is he really the right choice?

The thing that concerns me the most is his stand on the current budget cuts that are scheduled to go into effect Jan 2nd. Everything is in place for it to happen. By law, the details are supposed to be released 60 days before they go into effect. But because they do not want the cuts to impact the election, they have been granted a special exemption so that they can obscure the details. Regardless, Northrup Grummond, GE, United Technology, General Dynamics are all expecting big cuts. Expect them to be releasing layoff notices after the election.

When they say that they are cutting the military budget, what a lot of people don't realize is that they aren't actually cutting into troop size. Where they make their cuts are all the companies that provide equipment. Right now, the averaqe pilot in the Airforce flies a plane older than he is. We have a fleet a third the size it was in the eighties and it is getting small as older ships are being decommissioned and new ones are not being built. Worse, the skilled weapons designers will be out of work. When it is time to ramp up production again, these individuals will have moved on. Or worse, they may get offers from other countries such as China.
 
Mitch McConnell: Top Priority, Make Obama a One Term President

House Speaker Mitch McConnell ladies and gents.. the man who the President HAS to work with in the house to get things going. So if his attitude is that.. how much do you think got done in the last 2 years?

Offline Oniya

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #114 on: September 28, 2012, 04:23:54 PM »
So if I am reading your argument correctly, Even if he does get reelected, he will still have the GOP against him and still won't be able to get anything passed. As good as his intentions may be, actions speak louder than words. If is so hindered that he can't take action, (even if it is not his fault) is

The thing is, half the House and a third of the Senate are up for re-election as well.  The GOP might very well not have the majority that they've enjoyed, especially if they've managed to piss off enough of their own party members into not voting for them (or worse, voting against them.)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #115 on: September 28, 2012, 04:47:16 PM »

When they say that they are cutting the military budget, what a lot of people don't realize is that they aren't actually cutting into troop size. Where they make their cuts are all the companies that provide equipment. Right now, the averaqe pilot in the Airforce flies a plane older than he is. We have a fleet a third the size it was in the eighties and it is getting small as older ships are being decommissioned and new ones are not being built. Worse, the skilled weapons designers will be out of work. When it is time to ramp up production again, these individuals will have moved on. Or worse, they may get offers from other countries such as China.

Actually they ARE cutting manpower. Have been since Donald Rumbsfeld's tenure as SecDef. Dumbest move in decades. The arguement is that we can do 'more with less' by increasing technological innovation. IE... Drones are good .. piloted aircraft is good.. grunts on the ground is bad.

Forgetting the first rule of warfare. You don't a piece of ground till you got guys putting feet down on it and putting, and keeping, the flag on it. Otherwise all you got is a bombing range you have to fly a lot longer to get to. Sure, you can bomb the crap out of their infrastructure.. but hey.. the Russians learned that doesn't mean you OWN the ground.

Let me break things down for you on how US warfighting SHOULD go. From the sailor's POV. (Which I know)

-WE pound the crap out of the landing via bombs, shells, cruise missles and close in boat action, while bringing in the Marine Force in to secure the territory.
-The Marines TAKE the area we've just turned into rubble, suppressing enemy and securing inroads further inland. While holding the field for back up forces.
-The Backup forces, typically the Army, come in to take the heavy lifting job of long term occupation and free up the Marines to move up while moving to support them at points of heavy conflict. (the Marines are the hammer, and the Army is the anvil they mash the enemy against in these situations) While their support teams rebuild the infrastructure and set up for longer term holding of the territory.

There is some give and take in this.. but that is the basic strategy.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 04:51:34 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #116 on: September 28, 2012, 05:44:37 PM »
He controlled the Congress and the Senate for the first 2 years, President Obama is an unequivocal failure.

You're right. It was very difficult for Obama to get bills through Congress because of unprecedented Republican obstructionism. Had it not been for the obstruction, we might very well be coming out of the recession now, instead of just squeaking by. Republicans have blocked economic stimulus bills. They've blocked jobs bills. They've blocked bills to get soldiers coming out of the armed forces retrained for the civilian job market. You're right. Obama failed to turn the worst economic crisis this country has had since The Great Depression around in a mere four years. But the fault of that lies with the Republicans.

Quote
The Economic policies belong to him alone,

You're right. Obama stopped the economic freefall that was going on when he took office. He saved the auto industry. He saved the financial sector. He saved Europe from a replay of The Great Depression that would have sucked us down too. He's made some progress at new regulations of the banking and financial industries to keep them from repeating the same mistakes that caused this crisis to begin with (the deregulation of the Bush, Jr. years). There's still a long way to go, both in new regs for the financial industry, and in getting this nation back on it's feet, but the Republicans have been blocking as much legislation in that regard as they can. We'd be in a hell of a lot better position if the GOP hadn't tried to shut down the government.


Quote
because what Bush spent is a drop in the bucket when compared to Obama

Someone's been watching too much Fox News. If you watch Fox, you know that these are the spending figures that Fox reported on the spending during Bush, Jr's last years, and Obama's first years:



If you watch an unbiased news source, you'd know that Fox News lies. You'd know that the numbers above were cooked. You'd know that once again, Fox News is lying to it's viewers. What Fox did, was for Bush's numbers, compare federal spending growth pegged to federal revenue. For Obama's numbers, they counted spending growth as a share of the economy. This is comparing apples to oranges. If they used the same calculation for Obama's numbers, they'd have show that spending has come down compared to 2009, to less than 8%. CITE

The lesson here, is never trust that Fox News says without corroborating with an unbiased source first. Fox lies.

Quote
and the only thing he takes credit for (Foreign policy)

You're right, foreign policy has improved vastly under president Obama. The US is no longer the hated laughing stock of the world as we were under Bush Jr's years.

Quote
Was all implemented by the man he bashes at every turn (Bush).

Actually, Obama's been running around fixing Bush's messes for the last four years. I suppose that you could argue that Bush helped create the opportunity for Obama to be a great and well respected statesman.

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #117 on: September 28, 2012, 06:02:38 PM »
So if I am reading your argument correctly, Even if he does get reelected, he will still have the GOP against him and still won't be able to get anything passed. As good as his intentions may be, actions speak louder than words. If is so hindered that he can't take action, (even if it is not his fault) is he really the right choice?

The Democrats are taking back the Senate. They've already promised to reform the filibuster, which has been one of the prime methods that the GOP has used to block legislation. They might even take back the House. Obama's going to have a hell of a lot easier time passing legislation in his second term.

Quote
The thing that concerns me the most is his stand on the current budget cuts that are scheduled to go into effect Jan 2nd. Everything is in place for it to happen. By law, the details are supposed to be released 60 days before they go into effect. But because they do not want the cuts to impact the election, they have been granted a special exemption so that they can obscure the details. Regardless, Northrup Grummond, GE, United Technology, General Dynamics are all expecting big cuts. Expect them to be releasing layoff notices after the election.

When they say that they are cutting the military budget, what a lot of people don't realize is that they aren't actually cutting into troop size. Where they make their cuts are all the companies that provide equipment. Right now, the averaqe pilot in the Airforce flies a plane older than he is. We have a fleet a third the size it was in the eighties and it is getting small as older ships are being decommissioned and new ones are not being built. Worse, the skilled weapons designers will be out of work. When it is time to ramp up production again, these individuals will have moved on. Or worse, they may get offers from other countries such as China.

Honestly, I haven't followed this particular issue at all. Do you have a cite?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #118 on: September 28, 2012, 06:05:51 PM »
Agreed Stattick.. it's going to be a long time before all the diplomatic capital of the US is back to where it was. We had a strong case for coalition building with 9/11 and we dropped the ball. Too many private interests in the US wanted the return of regime building to share the load of rebuilding Iraq. We pissed on our European allies and alienated a lot of local (gulf) partners in small ways that add up.

For what? So Dick Cheney and his cronies could make a ton off of no-bid contracts in the Gulf. Then.. after we've spent all those years half ass doing things to rebuild Iraq.. they have the GALL to sell their oil to the highest purchaser (China!).

We went into Gulf War II with good standing and a very big amount of sympathy..and came out covered in the fall out of a political shit storm. We lost the respect of our peers, nations in the Gulf and pretty much handed the enemy a LOT of ammo to back up their claims under Bush.

President Obama did what he could, proved in many ways he was a team builder.. but a LOT more could have been done if the GOP had swallowed their pride and met him in the middle of the aisle, shook his hand, looked him in the eye and worked WITH him. Instead we've had years of obstructionism and political sniping. It's hard to meet with your rivals and work with them when their self proclaimed public goal is to ensure you fail. PERIOD.

When you say things like that.. you know what I hear? 'I'm a self entitled prat who don't like losing and can't put my poor injured pride aside to serve those who elected me to office. Fuck my voters. Fuck my duties! Screw everything but putting that upstart in HIS place."

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #119 on: September 28, 2012, 06:31:53 PM »
I watch the Daily Show.  Anyone who reads a dozen of my posts in this section can learn this.  I also watch the Report.  Now, based on that, here's what my mind has come up with at the moment, given what people are saying.

Item: The Republican Party is rapidly deteriorating.  No matter how much Koch money funds them, nor how badly Fox News twists the truth for them, it's coming apart.  The fact that Mitt Romney got the Repub nomination, in conjunction with the crazy-ass things he's said, should be proof of that.

If you want more, check out Every Which Way But Lucid for this Monday's Daily Show.

Item: This is good, believe it or not, for the political landscape and the Republican Party.  Because I believe, that if they fail on this one, where Super PACs reign supreme, money is free speech, and all those wonderful little sound bites that are the distillation of modern conservative thinking that thinking people despise, then they are going to have to be forced to reconsider their positions and abandon the stances they've taken.  Because Obama's victory will have proven that you can't buy elections, nor win them by only saying 'the other guy sucks worse than I do.'

Item: Jon Huntsman, considered by some one of the saner conservative-leaning candidates, was on the Report.  He noted that as a party, the Republicans have 150-odd years worth of history to draw upon.  He named 3 specific Presidents.  Lincoln, TR, and Eisenhower.  And I believe that if the Republicans look back and draw on that heritage, then they will be revitalized for 2016, and actually have some points worth making.

Item: Even if they don't, I do believe that that's not the end of the Republican party.  Understand, I can agree with things that Republicans are saying, on general principle, but not on implementation.  Example - Republicans believe businesses are the backbone of this country.  They're right.  But it's not the big businesses, the AIGs and Bain Capitals of the world that are.  It's the small corner stores, the Neil's VCR & TV Repair Shop down the street.  I believe, in some part, that if the Repubs were to take that much-touted business acumen, and retool it for the small business owner that needs help, then they would stand a better chance with the people.

Item: I'll say it to people until I'm blue in the face.  I'm no Democrat, but I hate the Republicans more.  Why?  Simple.  Hypocrisy on my end.  The Repubs always appeal to the evangelicals in this country, saying they support the Christian ethic.  Problem is, they cherry-pick which parts of Ye Old God Book they want to use.  Charity is fine...as long as its impersonal (like to fight cancer) and not mandated by someone beyond me, or as long as it's not going to people who just sit at home popping out babies inbetween snorts of PCP.  Paul says that no one should feel compelled to give, but Jesus has render unto Caesar.  I know which one I'd prioritize.

Soon as you cross their comfort line, though, all their Christian values disappear, and they become people capable of doing things just as bad, if not worse, than people who don't adhere publicly to those values in the first place.

Offline Rune

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #120 on: September 28, 2012, 06:36:38 PM »
Honestly, I haven't followed this particular issue at all. Do you have a cite?

I don't have a link with the info. Most of my info on it comes from a conversation I had over dinner last week with the former Senator from RI and one of Mrs. Obama's advisors. It has to do with a policy called Sequestration and the WARN Act. They are automatic spending cuts as mandated by the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control act, as amended by the Budget control act enacted in 2011. They kick into affect on Jan 2 2013 to reduce accounts by a uniform percentage unless Congress provides sequestation by agreeing on budget cut. As mentioned before, these guys don't agree on anything. I don't see them coming together in time to stop this. It is estimated by the Congressional Budget Office that this is going to lead to a 10% reduction in defence discretionary spending and 8% reduction in non-defence discretionary spending.

I haven't done any online searching on this. But if you find something good, let me know.

Offline Stattick

Re: "I'm only voting for Romney because he's not Obama."
« Reply #121 on: September 28, 2012, 07:02:45 PM »
I don't have a link with the info. Most of my info on it comes from a conversation I had over dinner last week with the former Senator from RI and one of Mrs. Obama's advisors. It has to do with a policy called Sequestration and the WARN Act. They are automatic spending cuts as mandated by the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control act, as amended by the Budget control act enacted in 2011. They kick into affect on Jan 2 2013 to reduce accounts by a uniform percentage unless Congress provides sequestation by agreeing on budget cut. As mentioned before, these guys don't agree on anything. I don't see them coming together in time to stop this. It is estimated by the Congressional Budget Office that this is going to lead to a 10% reduction in defence discretionary spending and 8% reduction in non-defence discretionary spending.

I haven't done any online searching on this. But if you find something good, let me know.

Wait. Which former senator from Rhode Island?