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Author Topic: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'  (Read 3566 times)

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Offline Sel NarTopic starter

'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« on: May 26, 2012, 03:52:35 PM »
Note: this was originally posted in 2009, but only recently was I linked this by a friend.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/brazil-rocked-by-abortion-for-9yearold-rape-victim-1640165.html

Short version; 9 year old girl was raped, pregnant with twins, doctors aborted both feti because they threatened the life of the child. Cardinal Giovanni Batista Re, and, allegedly, a Leading member of the Vatican, Excommunicated the Girl's Mother, and the Doctor that did the abortion. Only reason the child wasn't also excommunicated is because she's still considered a child by church doctrine.

Quote
the cardinal added: "It is a sad case but the real problem is that the twins conceived were two innocent persons. Life must always be protected."

Quote
Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the conservative regional archbishop for Pernambuco where the girl was rushed to hospital, has said that the man would not be thrown out of the Church, because although he had allegedly committed "a heinous crime", the Church took the view that "the abortion, the elimination of an innocent life, was more serious".

Is it just me, or has the church gone completely stupid?

Offline vtboy

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2012, 04:21:57 PM »
I'm having trouble with "gone."

Offline NatalieB

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2012, 05:23:36 PM »
I love the way these things crop up again years after they happened.  God bless the internet.

Murder (I'm not trying to start an abortion debate here, merely state how the Church sees it) is expressly forbidden.  Rape is only vaguely prohibited by a couple of passages in Romans.  The Church has different priorities to you.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2012, 05:29:14 PM »
I know their (the RCC) outlook has alienated a LOT of people. From what I heard of the rulings and investigations in Ireland, where some orders got blanket immunity for past offenses, they have lost a LOT of the faithful

Offline Sabre

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2012, 05:32:42 PM »
Quote
Forgive the Rapist...

This is incorrect.  Just because the rapist does not meet the canon law requirements for automatic excommunication does not mean he is forgiven at all.

Offline Samnell

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2012, 05:35:55 PM »
I'm having trouble with "gone."

They had a chance to smarten up. At Vatican II they had a panel of experts tell them they ought to come out in favor of at least limited forms of contraception and all that. The Pope vetoed it because he reasoned that if the Church changed its position on something it would encourage the faithful to wonder what other stuff it was wrong about. After all, what's untold millions suffering against the authority of the Church?

Offline Hemingway

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2012, 06:32:28 PM »
I love the way these things crop up again years after they happened.  God bless the internet.

Murder (I'm not trying to start an abortion debate here, merely state how the Church sees it) is expressly forbidden.  Rape is only vaguely prohibited by a couple of passages in Romans.  The Church has different priorities to you.

Is this entirely unproblematic, though? It seems like criticizing those "differerent priorities" is a very appropriate, even necessary thing to do. Simply pointing out the views of the church seems like a fairly tepid response to this.

I have strong views on religion, but even so I try not to involve myself in what is essentially a problem that's internal to a religion. Still, I simply can't not react to stories like these. I'd be guilty of something like cowardice, I feel, if I didn't speak my mind. Now, I don't know how you actually feel about this, NatalieB, so this isn't addressed specifically at you, but I would happily debate anyone who thinks this is at all an appropriate reaction to rape and subsequent abortion.

Offline vtboy

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2012, 08:29:44 PM »
The Church has different priorities to you.

Well, that's rather the point, isn't it.

The excommunication of the mother and doctor strikes me as something of a Dorian Gray moment, when the church's beatific mask drops away and  we are treated to a glimpse of the hideously deformed face that had been hidden beneath it. Speaking as one who views all organzied religion, on balance, as a retardant of mankind's better impulses, perhaps it is not such a bad thing that Mother Church let's the world see how truly irrelevant it is.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2012, 08:44:02 PM »
Well, that's rather the point, isn't it.

The excommunication of the mother and doctor strikes me as something of a Dorian Gray moment, when the church's beatific mask drops away and  we are treated to a glimpse of the hideously deformed face that had been hidden beneath it. Speaking as one who views all organzied religion, on balance, as a retardant of mankind's better impulses, perhaps it is not such a bad thing that Mother Church let's the world see how truly irrelevant it is.

What gets me is the fact that at about four months (that's what.. 16 to 20 weeks right?) the babies have next to no chance to survive and the girl's health was clearly at risk. I think the youngest premie to survive is like .. 22 weeks and everyone said that was a million in one occurrence. Given the girl's young age and apparent distress I would have made the same call as the doctors. I've talked with my mom... she's see a girl at nine give birth ('dad' was 12 or so) and she said it was a damn miracle the kid gave birth and live. Baby was equally lucky.

Offline Exelion

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2012, 09:34:59 PM »
This is incorrect.  Just because the rapist does not meet the canon law requirements for automatic excommunication does not mean he is forgiven at all.

True, but there's something to be said for allowing a man who rapes and impregnates a child to stay in your community, but exiling a mother and doctor trying to protect that same little girl.

Mind you, this was Brazil, and most South American countries are terrifyingly devout sometimes. Also bear in mind quite a bit of that same bishop's flock think he's an idiot.

Miss JPII though. He would have told this bishop to get his head on straight.

Offline Sabre

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2012, 09:56:13 PM »
Excommunication is not the same thing as exile, though.  They remain a part of the Catholic community, and the bishop is correct in his legalism.  Abortion results in automatic excommunication without exception that requires reconciliation with the church plus penitence.  The rapist has sinned as well, but his sin is a grave one, not mortal, so the rules are different.

Offline rick957

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2012, 10:47:19 PM »
From the introductory post to this thread:

Quote
Is it just me, or has the church gone completely stupid?

This is a great example of the kind of comment that I personally think should not be allowed in this particular section of the site.  Before anyone gets mad at me, let me try to explain.

If you want to have a real discussion or debate about the Catholic Church's position on abortion or the church's misguided priorities, the only way that can happen is if somebody who agrees with the Church's position or at least has a little sympathy for it decides to post here.  The sentence above all but guarantees that if any such person sees this thread, he or she will not post here, because a tone that is harshly anti-Catholic-Church has already been set here.  No one's going to jump up and talk about the other side of the issue unless they feel they will get a calm and fair hearing from the audience, rather than being called "stupid," for crying out loud.

Now let me be clear:  I am not saying that Sel Nar has no right to think whatever he does about the church.  But the way he expressed his opinion was inappropriate for a section focused on discussion or debate.  No discussion or debate of any value can happen unless that kind of emotionalism is kept out altogether, IMO.

It turns out that E has been set up so that an entire section exists where people can say things like the above comment, as much as they want, basically; the section is called "The Bad and The Ugly," and I love that it's there, and I would have absolutely no problem with seeing the above comment at the top of a thread in that section.  Does that make sense?  It just doesn't belong here, IMO.

Let me close by saying something about the actual thread topic.  I think it's a little odd and more importantly unnecessary to go all the way back to 2009 to find an example of the Catholic Church's wrong priorities; there are more recent and more generally-relevant examples than the one cited in the first post here.

I have no personal interest in defending the Catholic Church and couldn't do so very well if I had to, but I'd like to hear from someone who can do so, in order that I could better understand certain church decisions that appear morally reprehensible to most non-Catholics, and to most Catholics as well, I imagine.

Offline Samnell

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2012, 10:51:08 PM »
Mind you, this was Brazil, and most South American countries are terrifyingly devout sometimes. Also bear in mind quite a bit of that same bishop's flock think he's an idiot.

These things have happened in the US. I recall a case a year or two ago where the entire ethics board of a Catholic hospital agreed that there was no chance of saving the fetus and if the pregnancy was continued the mother would die. The local bishop was furious that the ethics committee (including a nun!) permitted the abortion and pulled the hospital's right to call itself a Catholic hospital, among other things.

By his own standards, this bishop prefers two deaths to one. That makes perfect sense if you think the fetus is going straight to eternal bliss, of course.

Offline NatalieB

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2012, 06:00:59 AM »
Sabre and Rick have put my thoughts much better than I could.

Just to summarise my position though -

1)  The Cardinal is quite correct in how he acted by the standards of the church.  Feel free to disagree with those standards as much as you wish - I personally do.  But the Catholic church feels differently.  This girl presumably knew that excommunication would be the result if she chose the abortion and made that choice.  There's no issue here.

Which leads on to:

2) This story is three years old.  Sure, I get that you only just heard of it.  This is the first I heard of it as well.  Raising it now can't possibly be for any reason other than to bash the Church.  And as Rick mentioned, the phrasing made that even more clear. 

Rick:

The Catholic Church has a doctrine called 'ensoulment'.  This refers to the exact point at which a person/fetus/zygote/whatever gains a soul.  Prior to that its not human, post that it is.  The issue is that the Catholic Church has no official position on when ensoulment occurs.  It could be birth, could be conception, could be anywhere in between.  The general belief is conception, but thats not catechism.  What is catechism is that a noone knows and so its just not a risk worth taking.

The girl in question made the decision to have an abortion, which the Catholic church believes, for reasons above, to be murder.  Hence she is automatically excommunicated - latae sententiae.  That is to say, contrary to OP the Cardinal didn't excommunicate her.  She was automatically excommunicated the second she had the abortion.  He simply mentioned it so that every else knew.  The relevant ruling is Canon 1398 if you want to look it up.

Does that answer at all?

Offline vtboy

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2012, 06:35:22 AM »
From the introductory post to this thread:

This is a great example of the kind of comment that I personally think should not be allowed in this particular section of the site.  Before anyone gets mad at me, let me try to explain.

If you want to have a real discussion or debate about the Catholic Church's position on abortion or the church's misguided priorities, the only way that can happen is if somebody who agrees with the Church's position or at least has a little sympathy for it decides to post here.  The sentence above all but guarantees that if any such person sees this thread, he or she will not post here, because a tone that is harshly anti-Catholic-Church has already been set here.  No one's going to jump up and talk about the other side of the issue unless they feel they will get a calm and fair hearing from the audience, rather than being called "stupid," for crying out loud.

I see no reason to put a straitjacket on expressions of opinion which stop short of true incivility. Emphatic speech serves a purpose, as does giving voice to repugnance and astonishment. Moreover, your concern that Sel Nar's rather mild chide will chill the other side of the debate seems misplaced, as at least two posters have already offered something of the RCC's reasons for its action. Were I a supporter of the RCC, I can only think the remark would have impelled me to some opposing response.

And, perhaps it is the wisdom of the excommunication, rather than the indecent insensitivity to human anguish it apparently reflects, which is the more interesting issue. Ours is by no means the first time in its history that the RCC has fallen out of step with the needs and conscience of its faithful, much to its ultimate regret. As both doctrine and organizational reflex for self-preservation continue to turn the church against its congregants, perhaps the damned thing will finally wither away, much as have other once cherished midieval institutions, like monarchy, guilds and serfdom.   

Offline vtboy

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2012, 07:02:29 AM »
2) This story is three years old.  Sure, I get that you only just heard of it.  This is the first I heard of it as well.  Raising it now can't possibly be for any reason other than to bash the Church.  And as Rick mentioned, the phrasing made that even more clear. 

Three years hardly consigns the story to the dustbin of history, especially since there is no reason to believe the Church would act any differently were the abortion to take place today.

And, what exactly is wrong with bashing the Church? I hope you are not suggesting that opinions in this forum need be constrained by the RCC's supposed moral authority.

Offline NatalieB

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2012, 07:39:03 AM »
Three years hardly consigns the story to the dustbin of history, especially since there is no reason to believe the Church would act any differently were the abortion to take place today.

And, what exactly is wrong with bashing the Church? I hope you are not suggesting that opinions in this forum need be constrained by the RCC's supposed moral authority.

The church would act exactly the same.  As I said: it acted totally in accordance with its own rules.  And no, of course I'm not saying that Church morals should hold sway here - even if this was a Catholic forum I wouldn't argue that, and its not.

What I am saying is that it seems somehow, I dunno, churlish.  The Church did nothing wrong here but the tone of the first post, the title of the thread, everything seems designed to draw some moral indignation.  It seems like a way of expressing a dislike for the Church and inviting others to join rather than an attempt to start a debate, do you get what I mean?  I'm not sure how well I've expressed that.

Offline Exelion

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2012, 07:46:10 AM »
The church would act exactly the same.  As I said: it acted totally in accordance with its own rules.  And no, of course I'm not saying that Church morals should hold sway here - even if this was a Catholic forum I wouldn't argue that, and its not.

What I am saying is that it seems somehow, I dunno, churlish.  The Church did nothing wrong here but the tone of the first post, the title of the thread, everything seems designed to draw some moral indignation.  It seems like a way of expressing a dislike for the Church and inviting others to join rather than an attempt to start a debate, do you get what I mean?  I'm not sure how well I've expressed that.

Actually, I heard about this story when it happened, Remember being annoyed by it too.

I agree that the head of the diocese acted in accordance with the rules of his religion. I just think they are completely idiotic and inflexible in all the wrong spots. Not excommunicating the rapist but doing so to the girl, her family, etc sends a message, unwitting or not, that rape is acceptable to the Catholic Church. It also sends the message that it's better for the girl to potentially die, and to let a doctor forswear his oath and let her die needlessly. To have a mother turn her back on her own child and let her suffer. Rather than abort.

I'm anti-abortion myself, in almost all circumstances. I think the idea of a procedure to rid oneself of a child one doesn't want could be horribly abused and probably often is. BUT, I strongly feel there are circumstances where you can't afford to be that black and white.

Offline NatalieB

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2012, 08:00:59 AM »
I think we actually agree here.  I'm in favour of abortions being freely and easily available.  And the Catholic Church isn't.  I can't have it both ways - I can be a Catholic and abandon my belief in abortions or I can agree with abortions and not be a Catholic.  The girl chose the second, the same choice I would have made and many many others have made.  As such, shes no longer a Catholic.

I dont understand how this has become a moral issue.  Or at least a moral issue for anyone other than her.

Offline vtboy

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2012, 08:30:26 AM »
I think we actually agree here.  I'm in favour of abortions being freely and easily available.  And the Catholic Church isn't.  I can't have it both ways - I can be a Catholic and abandon my belief in abortions or I can agree with abortions and not be a Catholic.  The girl chose the second, the same choice I would have made and many many others have made.  As such, shes no longer a Catholic.

I dont understand how this has become a moral issue.  Or at least a moral issue for anyone other than her.

I agree, one can either accept Church docrine and remain a Catholic, or reject it and not. Hence, my earlier post questioning the wisdom, as policy, of the Church's doctrinal intransigence.

That the mother may choose to leave the RCC does not, however, counsel indifference to her presumed anguish over a forced choice between the religion she has likely been taught illuminates the only road to salavation and saving her nine year old daughter. Although I am not Catholic, I fail to see how this is not a moral issue for every member of the Church. I realize that morality often gets lost in doctrine, but is not the most fundamental of all moral precepts that one should treat others as one would wish to be treated? And what about all that throwing the first stone stuff?   

Offline Exelion

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2012, 11:27:07 AM »
I think we actually agree here.  I'm in favour of abortions being freely and easily available.  And the Catholic Church isn't.  I can't have it both ways - I can be a Catholic and abandon my belief in abortions or I can agree with abortions and not be a Catholic.  The girl chose the second, the same choice I would have made and many many others have made.  As such, shes no longer a Catholic.

I dont understand how this has become a moral issue.  Or at least a moral issue for anyone other than her.
My only issue is with the doctrine itself. I believe in the possibility that a Catholic could believe in abortion under certain circumstances, and remain a faithful catholic. I know enough history to know the organization's stance on many topics has swayed WILDLY over the centuries. I think it's time to give that doctrine a little more though. Nothing more or less. I don't feel that will happen with a hardliner like Ratzinger (who doesn't deserve his reign name if you ask me). Maybe the next pope.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2012, 11:57:31 AM »
I just can't understand how you can justify excommunicating two people for saving a life. Realistically at the girl's age and the short term of her pregnancy that the twins were definitely not going to survive. Was it better to let all three people die?

Must be nice to look down from on high and make such high handed decisions. I don't imagine that either the mother or doctor are having a fun time in such a country, while the shunning part of excommunication is officially gone I am sure that both aren't having an easy time about things.

I find reprehensible that such high handed actions are being taken but then again, the Church has taken a step back with the new pope's outlook. He's much more conservative than than the last pope was in areas like this and the church follows the pope.

It's a shame but not unexpected.  I find it, personally, reprehensible that the rapist is not also excommunicated..though the article is right in that what he did wasn't merited by it. I don't see anywhere in the article that he was 'forgiven' or 'welcomed back into the arms of the church' though. 

Offline NatalieB

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2012, 12:15:10 PM »
John Paul ii was fairly orthodox.  I'm not sure the difference between him and Benedict is really that large.  But thats neither here nor there.

I've given the wrong impression here, so sorry for being unclear.  My personal stance, from reading your post, seems to be the same as yours.  However, my personal stance isn't whats at stake here.  It's not a situation thats ever going affect me.

All I'm trying to say is that the Catholic Church followed its own rules (well, OK, technically they could have not excommunicated the doctor, but its not forbidden and is far from a stretch.)  Criticising this Cardinal or that Bishop is inaccurate - they belong to an organisation that has rules and they followed them.  The girl, doctor, mother, everyone involved were also part of that organisation.  And that organisation has strict rules about abortion.

Take E as the example.  It has rules and I belong to it.  Lets say I disagree with one of them.  I think its unfair, unreasonable, whatever.  I have a flat choice.  I can suck it up and stay or break that rule and go.

Sure, the stakes were way way higher than membership or not of an online community, delightful as it is, but the core principle is the same.  The Catholic Church believes as a core part of its being that being dead and in grace is infintately preferable to alive and in sin.  Accepting the Church means accepting that belief.

The girl, her mother, the doctor, chose not to accept that belief.  Ergo, they are kicked out of the Church.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2012, 12:40:12 PM »
I guess my problem is that I have seen the church judge so many of their worshippers while doing damn little in cleaning their own clergy. Even today it is more likely to ship a priest off than to leave them open to punishment.

I think that the Church has to change its outlook but I admit that part of my outlook is from spending 2 1/2 years in an Irish Catholic school in the Republic of Ireland (not as fun for an Anglican of Scottish heritage let me tell you). Seeing the fallout in Ireland as nearly a century of abuses in such places as Magdalene schools and other church run facilities quietly swept under the rug.

So yeah I'm not as non partisan as I could be, but I also see a Church that seems largely indifferent to its  flocks needs when you move beyond a certain level. 

Offline Sel NarTopic starter

Re: 'Forgive the Rapist, Excommunicate the Victim'
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2012, 12:48:38 PM »
To clarify on several things, including my personal thoughts, and how 'right' or 'wrong' the Church, in general, was.

Yes, I am legitimately angry about this, even though it happened 3 years ago. I admit to being a rather antagonistic person in general towards Organized religion, but there are moments where I feel justified in yelling from the rooftops about a decision or action by the church's leadership that effectively forces my brain to spend a few reboot cycles figuring out what the shit happened.

The Church has, in its books, a selection of laws and statutes that applied to this issue; one of them simply states that anyone who performs a mortal sin, unless they do not have the mental capacity, or are under the age of 16, is automatically excommunicated. You would ~think~, then, that Rape, of a family member no less, would be considered a mortal sin. However, the only people Excommunicated were the 9 year old's mother, and the doctor who performed the abortion, as the Church would rather have 3 dead people than one living child who never should have been put in that position in the first place.

Secondly, the abuse of the girl by her stepfather had been going on for 3 years; that is more than enough time for the abuser to poison her mind and justify the abuse, such as 'everyone she knows is hurt by her'. What message did the Cardinal send when he publicly declared the excommunication against the girl's mother, who was only trying to help a scared, hurt child? That would reinforce the abuser's negative reinforcement that she would 'deserve' the abuse, because everyone that 'helps' only gets hurt by her.

Thirdly, as per the Code of Canon Law 1323 and 1324, due to the Extenuating circumstance involved, the excommunication should have been immediately revoked, due to subsections 4, 5 and 8 in Canon 1324.

Quote
Can. 1323 The following are not subject to a penalty when they have violated a law or precept:

1/ a person who has not yet completed the sixteenth year of age;

2/ a person who without negligence was ignorant that he or she violated a law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;

3/ a person who acted due to physical force or a chance occurrence which the person could not foresee or, if foreseen, avoid;

4/ a person who acted coerced by grave fear, even if only relatively grave, or due to necessity or grave inconvenience unless the act is intrinsically evil or tends to the harm of souls;

5/ a person who acted with due moderation against an unjust aggressor for the sake of legitimate self defense or defense of another;

6/ a person who lacked the use of reason, without prejudice to the prescripts of cann. ⇒ 1324, ß1, n. 2 and ⇒ 1325;

7/ a person who without negligence thought that one of the circumstances mentioned in nn. 4 or 5 was present.

Can. 1324 ß1. The perpetrator of a violation is not exempt from a penalty, but the penalty established by law or precept must be tempered or a penance employed in its place if the delict was committed:

1/ by a person who had only the imperfect use of reason;

2/ by a person who lacked the use of reason because of drunkenness or another similar culpable disturbance of mind;

3/ from grave heat of passion which did not precede and hinder all deliberation of mind and consent of will and provided that the passion itself had not been stimulated or fostered voluntarily;

4/ by a minor who has completed the age of sixteen years;

5/ by a person who was coerced by grave fear, even if only relatively grave, or due to necessity or grave inconvenience if the delict is intrinsically evil or tends to the harm of souls;

6/ by a person who acted without due moderation against an unjust aggressor for the sake of legitimate self defense or defense of another;

7/ against someone who gravely and unjustly provokes the person;

8/ by a person who thought in culpable error that one of the circumstances mentioned in ⇒ can. 1323, nn. 4 or 5 was present;

9/ by a person who without negligence did not know that a penalty was attached to a law or precept;

10/ by a person who acted without full imputability provided that the imputability was grave.

Fourthly, Why did the church NOT excommunicate the Abuser/Molester/Rapist? There was no explanation given stating why a 23 year old man that raped a pre-teen for 3 years was given the privelege of 'Not being thrown out of the church'. There were NO followup reports at all on that angle, which leaves a LOT of questions unanswered.

Fifth, the Bishop of Gap, France as well as Archbishop Rino Fisichella, then President of the Pontifical Academy for Life, cited the laws in the Canons I pointed out above in their Defense of the girl, the girl's mother, and the doctor. So this moment of Extreme public stupidity on the part of Cardinal Giovanni Batista Re.

Now, hopefully, all this will force the church to pulls its head out of is collective backside and start making some progress on things, but it's far more likely that, like in Ireland and the Northeast USA's child abuse scandals, the people involved will be quietly shuffled about until the uproar subsides.

Edit: This link leads to an interview with the doctor who performed the abortion. http://spuc-director.blogspot.ca/2009/03/doctor-in-abortion-of-nine-year-old.html

I think this comment, from the Doctor, best sums it up.

Quote
Iím an active Catholic, but in this case I found myself before a nine-year-old girl who risked dying for being sexually abused. From the legal point of view the Brazilian law allows us to stop pregnancy resulting from rape or where thereís a risk of death. From the moral point of view, what we did was acceptable, something I would do to anyone close to me, even a relative. And from the religious point of view, our intention was to promote good. Despite the strict codes of the Catholic Church, we didnít feel intimidated by these codes, so we acted to save the life of the child, which was most important.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 12:51:59 PM by Sel Nar »