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Author Topic: The Current Presidential Race (was: Re: "I, Michelle Bachmann, Pledge....")  (Read 4310 times)

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Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

I am sure.. like a bad rash, she will resurface from time to time. I am watching to see what Perry does as well. He's 'reassessing' his position right now. I find it AMAZING that most of the media I've read/watched goes on how Santorum had a BIG loss to Romney for losing by a literal handful of votes yet damn near nothing is said about Paul coming in third. I honestly hope he STOMPS in big on New Hampshire too heavy to ignore this time around.

So far Cain and Bachmann are gone.. sadly I think Santorum will be around for the long haul. Gingrich.. I'm withholding opinion till a few more states are done and depending on Perry withdrawing or not.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 11:55:14 AM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline MasterMischief

I used to be an independent with conservative leanings.  I was pro-military and pro-firearms.  But the Republican party has fired me.  They seem set on creating a Christian Theocracy and protecting the plutocracy.

How can you say you want to defend the constitution and turn around and amend it?

They claim to be pro-jobs, but they want to eliminate millions by slashing the government.  And it seems the only reason they want to slash the government is to screw over the middle and lower classes.  I mean, otherwise they would have been on this reduce the budget kick while Bush was in.

Offline Oniya

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One can defend the Constitution and still amend it - the addition of women's suffrage would be one example, along with the repeal of Prohibition (which itself was a Constitutional amendment).  Bernie Sanders of Vermont is proposing an amendment that would repeal Citizens United.  (More info and petition)

The problem is that the current batch of Republican candidates are all about amending the Constitution in ways that mess with the very core of it.

Offline MasterMischief

One can defend the Constitution and still amend it...

Are you not then just defending portions of it?  What is wrong with admitting that you agree with some, but not all of a document?

The Constitution is not a holy relic to me.  It is a piece of paper with some really good ideas on it.  Those good ideas can stand on their own merit and are not good ideas simply because they are part of the Constitution.  They should regularly be challenged and if they continue to be good ideas, they should continue to stand on their own merit.

But that is just me.  I have a problem with any kind of authority.  All concepts must stand on their own merit.  There are no sacred cows.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Are you not then just defending portions of it?  What is wrong with admitting that you agree with some, but not all of a document?

The Constitution is not a holy relic to me.  It is a piece of paper with some really good ideas on it.  Those good ideas can stand on their own merit and are not good ideas simply because they are part of the Constitution.  They should regularly be challenged and if they continue to be good ideas, they should continue to stand on their own merit.

But that is just me.  I have a problem with any kind of authority.  All concepts must stand on their own merit.  There are no sacred cows.

Amendments are part of the process. They have to go through a process that puts them in front of the people and discussed, weighted, evaluated and considered.

Things like those little 'elements' of the recent act the president signed off on was passed with great dissent among the public (despite surprising lack of media exposure) bypasses it.

Campaign finance reform and the role of corporations in it, is long long long overdue.

Offline MasterMischief

Amendments are part of the process.

Absolutely and that is why I think it is great.  Someone realized that the situation on the ground can and does change.  Just because something is in the Constitution does not mean it is the end all, be all.

Offline bubby

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Well....5% at the Iowa caucus. This shows 2 things. That thank GAWD the public isn't as stupid as I thought, and that her 'message' wasn't as well received as she must have thought it would be.

Yay for free speech, because it brings out things that make me laugh!

Offline Oniya

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Are you not then just defending portions of it?  What is wrong with admitting that you agree with some, but not all of a document?

Absolutely nothing.  I must have misread:

How can you say you want to defend the constitution and turn around and amend it?

Offline Serephino

That's one idiot down.  Though, the scary thing is, at least a few people did vote for her...  What sucks is there really are no good choices out of the bunch.  Though something tells me Romney will do well, and it could be worse. 

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

That's one idiot down.  Though, the scary thing is, at least a few people did vote for her...  What sucks is there really are no good choices out of the bunch.  Though something tells me Romney will do well, and it could be worse. 


My thoughts, barring something big happening, will be Romney with either Gingrich or Santorum as VP since the party doesn't acknowledge the existence Ron Paul.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Never thought she would last all the way through the primaries season, but it's nice to see her out already in Iowa. If Palin (her political role model, isn't she?) had been a candidate she might have scored big in Iowa, Texas and some other places but she wouldn't have had much of a chance to get the nomination - she is just too extreme to be a viable, winning candidate in the end, and both the top level of the GOP and many voters know that.

Santorum looks like he's got a better chance and undeniably he's an energetic speaker; Gingrich won't last all the way I think. Mitt Romney will be in all through till summer and likely beyond, unless he really trips on something. Ron Paul has a big and enthusiastic fanbase and he's not a spent force (which I think Gingrich comes across as, he's near seventy and really too much Reagan/Clinton era, and seems to have some, erm, "baggage"). So the top trio from Iowa would be the ones posted to fight it out.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 02:47:20 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Never thought she would last all the way through the primaries season, but it's nice to see her out already in Iowa. If Palin (her political role model, isn't she?) had been a candidate she might have scored big in Iowa, Texas and some other places but she wouldn't have had much of a chance to get the nomination - she is just too extreme to be a viable, winning candidate in the end, and both the top level of the GOP and many voters know that.

Santorum looks like he's got a better chance and undeniably he's an energetic speaker; Gingrich won't last all the way I think. Mitt Romney will be in all through till summer and likely beyond, unless he really trips on something. Ron Paul has a big and enthusiastic fanbase and he's not a spent force (which I think Gingrich comes across as, he's near seventy and really too much Reagan/Clinton era, and seems to have some, erm, "baggage"). So the top trio from Iowa would be the ones posted to fight it out.

I don't think Santorum will last.. my gut tells me he's got baggage waiting to bubble up. Gingrich is iffy.. but I imagine he'll bounce back with the old southern republicans..

The only thing that could skew things is if Romney had a body pop up on him, so to speak.

Personally, I don't think Santorum or Romney has enough appeal with the moderates to get the white house from the president.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

I don't pay any of it much mind, because America stopped having actual elections for a genuine POTUS long ago.

What we now do is select which front man will lie to us on behalf of the Forbes 400--the only ones whose opinions actually matter--for four years.

I was laughing my ass off when everyone was talking about Obama and "Hope and Change."  If Obama had actually brought real change to the American system, he'd have had an "accident" within a month, maybe six weeks tops, and they'd have been fishing his body out of the Potomac.

We all knew Bachmann wasn't going to get it.  Too unpredictable and independently minded.  Ditto for Paul...the Forbes 400 would give him a dirt nap before he got anywhere near the Oval Office.  He's just there for flavor, to provide the illusion that there is actually a choice.

It's going to be Santorum or Romney.  Both stuffed suits largely devoid of independent thought or individual initiative.  Perfect front men.  As Nicky Santoro said (to paraphrase just a bit).  "I mean, what the fuck else could they be?  They don't know much.  They don't wanna know much."

Offline Serephino

I don't see Santorum lasting past the PA primary.  I can't remember why, because who can keep track, but he was our rep and we don't like him. 

Offline consortium11

Santorum likely won't last. He's this years Mike Huckabee in that he's the "family values" candidate who picks up the evangelical vote; which gives him a really strong base in Iowa but nowhere near as much anywhere else.

The only hope he has is if the "Anyone but Romney" crowd have finally decided he's their man and that they're going to stick with him. Even then he faces some pretty stiff competition; Jon Huntsman may have been completely anonymous (by design) in Iowa, but he's spent a lot of time in New Hampshire following the Santorum/Iowa blueprint of spending a huge amount of time on the ground and is polling roughly in third and Gingrich isn't far enough behind to be out of the race and now he's not a front runner won't have so many attack ads against him, as well as some of the McCain effect of being a name-value politician still pushing along. Paul supporters are unlikely to switch... I imagine his support remains pretty constant throughout.

At the moment it appears to Romney's to lose.

Offline MasterMischief

Two words for you, Mor Mon.  The country was apparently ready for a black president, but is the right ready for a Mormon?  I dare them to prove me wrong.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Two words for you, Mor Mon.  The country was apparently ready for a black president, but is the right ready for a Mormon?  I dare them to prove me wrong.

There is some of the same sentiment that JFK had to deal with.

Offline gaggedLouise

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There is some of the same sentiment that JFK had to deal with.

True. Many people will picture in their minds either a bearded old man with The Book of Mormon and a fierce belief in "an eye for an eye" or the family in Big Love. Of course Romney is neither, but he's still likely to rebuff both the hardline conservatives and middle-ground liberals/independents (who will not be voting in the primaries, but some of whose votes he will need if he is to beat Obama) on an almost visceral, instinctive level - because of the "M word".
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 10:00:46 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Trieste

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I'm just glad I don't have to listen to her start one sentence and finish another. Seriously, the woman's way of speaking annoys me on a personal level. If you don't have the brains to take just a moment and figure out what you're going to say before you open your mouth, how are you going to run a country?

Romney is a chameleon. He will be whatever you want him to be, and it ends up with an unknown in office. Plus, with his screwing the pooch on health care in MA, I would never vote for him. Not in a million years.

Gingrich and child labor laws. 'Nuff said.

Ron Paul = 16 Tons. "Another day older and deeper in debt"? No thank you.

Perry has killed innocent prisoners in his state despite viable forensic objections to death row inmates' convictions. Thinking about voting for him is just ... no.

Herman Cain is an idiot.

Rick Santorum is a self-righteous prat.

I could have possibly gotten behind Huntsman, but he has no chance in the GOP primaries.

Welp. Guess that leaves Obama, or a write-in of Mickey Mouse.

Offline TheGlyphstone

If it's a write-in candidate, pick Cthulhu+Dagon.

Elder Party 2012: Why Vote For The Lesser Evil? ;D

Offline Iniquitous

*snickers* I do have to wonder how many times Cthulhu has been written in.

Offline Oniya

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Unfortunately, write-ins that are obviously fictional are typically not counted (they get discarded before getting that far.)  You'd have an easier time figuring out how many times Bart Simpson was written in.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Well I think Romney has a better chance than most of getting the nod, though the 'M-word' will hit him hard in spots. The guy is with like 500 million on his own though, so I'm sure he can move past it.

My money is on Gingrich, Santorum or Paul as the VP with RP a DISTANT third. I'm willing to bet that the party won't allow whoever gets the big ride to pick another Palin. It's going to be someone who did the run up against the canidate no more soccer mom/govenors who no one but the party leadership ever heard of.

Honestly I don't see anyone I want in office. Either side. It comes down to 'degree of evil' and god above.. I'm tired of that.

What worries me more is either side winning EVERYTHING this time around. The Democrats getting the White House and Congress is just as bad as the GOP getting the White House and keeping the balance they have now.

I've said it before..and I'll say it again. The interests of the people doesn't sit with either party but somewhere in the middle. Thru the process and mediation.

Unfortunately the last 10 years has seen less and less of that.

Offline That Blue One

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Well, I can't say I'm surprised. She might be thinking her chances are better to get tapped as a VP candidate instead of the overall nomination.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Well, I can't say I'm surprised. She might be thinking her chances are better to get tapped as a VP candidate instead of the overall nomination.

I think she's got a better chance of being hit by a piece of Skylab.