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Author Topic: The Current Presidential Race (was: Re: "I, Michelle Bachmann, Pledge....")  (Read 4315 times)

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Offline That Blue One

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Well, McCain picked Palin (even if that was a disaster for him), and I wouldn't put it past someone to try it again.

Someone posted a list a little further up that I agree completely with. There's just not a candidate there that can beat the guy I'm voting for, at least not yet.

But the race is still very much up in the air, and there are primaries to come.  I'd imagine once we see where the support lies, we'll know who's going to be going up against Obama.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Well, McCain picked Palin (even if that was a disaster for him), and I wouldn't put it past someone to try it again.

Someone posted a list a little further up that I agree completely with. There's just not a candidate there that can beat the guy I'm voting for, at least not yet.

But the race is still very much up in the air, and there are primaries to come.  I'd imagine once we see where the support lies, we'll know who's going to be going up against Obama.

Sorry but after the 'internment clause' the President supported on New Years Eve, I cannot in good conscience vote for him. He's barely met any of his promises in a tangible manner. Lots of start up but not as much follow through as I would hope.

For a constitutional scholar he's done a good job mangling it with that little bit and I don't have much trust with him anymore.

Offline That Blue One

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Well, everyone can vote for who the choose to. I think he's done a pretty good job so far, myself, but that's why we all have a vote to spend.  I may agree with him, you don't, but I think we can both agree a nice, civil discussion is a lot more fun that just screaming back and forth at each other.

The big thing this year will be the moderates- where are they going to go, and who are they going to vote for? 

And is there a general politics thread that we can use without dragging this one off-topic?

Offline Will

Well, McCain picked Palin (even if that was a disaster for him), and I wouldn't put it past someone to try it again.

Someone posted a list a little further up that I agree completely with. There's just not a candidate there that can beat the guy I'm voting for, at least not yet.

But the race is still very much up in the air, and there are primaries to come.  I'd imagine once we see where the support lies, we'll know who's going to be going up against Obama.

Palin was also an utter train wreck as a running mate.  I can't imagine the eventual nominee wanting another lunatic "mama bear" going "rogue" when she should actually be studying her notecards instead.  It would be entertaining, though.  Get Katie Couric in here, ASAP!

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Palin was also an utter train wreck as a running mate.  I can't imagine the eventual nominee wanting another lunatic "mama bear" going "rogue" when she should actually be studying her notecards instead.  It would be entertaining, though.  Get Katie Couric in here, ASAP!

I had a few friends who agonized over their choice because of the VP choices rather than the President. I mean.. you got Palin vs. Biden. I can sympathize.

Offline That Blue One

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I think the big thing that kept me from even considering McCain in the last election was a combination of his health and Palin.  As much as I respect the man, well, the combination of fragile health and someone like Palin heartbeats away from the presidency... well, I gave it a lot of thought. 

Offline Oniya

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Well, everyone can vote for who the choose to. I think he's done a pretty good job so far, myself, but that's why we all have a vote to spend.  I may agree with him, you don't, but I think we can both agree a nice, civil discussion is a lot more fun that just screaming back and forth at each other.

The big thing this year will be the moderates- where are they going to go, and who are they going to vote for? 

And is there a general politics thread that we can use without dragging this one off-topic?

Excellent idea.  Consider it done.  ;D

Offline Trieste

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Re: "I, Michelle Bachmann, Pledge...."
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2012, 01:05:39 PM »
I'm not entirely convinced that McCain picked Palin himself. I suspect that she was some sort of compromise or party choice. Either way, I don't like candidates who want to get cozy with my uterus (another reason Perry is out). If Palin were a character in a political drama, though, I think I would like her very much. She'd be really funny if she were a little more irrelevant. I would be surprised if she didn't run in 2016.

I'm really disappointed with every. single. person. who has been in Washington these past four years. I'm unhappy with both of my Senators. I'm unhappy with the two Houses of Congress as a whole. I'm reasonably happy with my House rep, but he's retiring. I'm disappointed in Obama, but he's been the most moderate, sane voice in Washington for several years. I'm really tired of seeing the leadership bicker and squabble while the rest of the country languishes. I have to say that I'm not really inclined to forget that when the country needed its leaders the most, they haven't been there.

As far as the NDAA, honestly, if I were Obama? I'd probably turn around and say "What? You think I've trampled on your rights? Vote for one of the GOP nominees and see how much better they do". Because honestly, he's treated civil liberties much gentler than I'd trust someone like Paul, Perry, or Bachmann to treat them.

Offline Will

The comparison doesn't really make it okay.  All it does is make the betrayal easier to swallow.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: "I, Michelle Bachmann, Pledge...."
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2012, 01:22:37 PM »
I'm not entirely convinced that McCain picked Palin himself. I suspect that she was some sort of compromise or party choice. Either way, I don't like candidates who want to get cozy with my uterus (another reason Perry is out). If Palin were a character in a political drama, though, I think I would like her very much. She'd be really funny if she were a little more irrelevant. I would be surprised if she didn't run in 2016.

I'm really disappointed with every. single. person. who has been in Washington these past four years. I'm unhappy with both of my Senators. I'm unhappy with the two Houses of Congress as a whole. I'm reasonably happy with my House rep, but he's retiring. I'm disappointed in Obama, but he's been the most moderate, sane voice in Washington for several years. I'm really tired of seeing the leadership bicker and squabble while the rest of the country languishes. I have to say that I'm not really inclined to forget that when the country needed its leaders the most, they haven't been there.

As far as the NDAA, honestly, if I were Obama? I'd probably turn around and say "What? You think I've trampled on your rights? Vote for one of the GOP nominees and see how much better they do". Because honestly, he's treated civil liberties much gentler than I'd trust someone like Paul, Perry, or Bachmann to treat them.

I'll be honest with you. I feel a lot of the way. I drank the cool aide with the 'outsider' candidate that came out last time around and I've talked with his office and emailed him more than I have any person in the last 30 years. I typically email/call my reps maybe 1 or 2 times in their term to find out the position they are taking on issues I worry over. Of course Rubio has broken, in my opinion, pretty much everything he's promised to do and is clearly in the pocket of special interests.

I'd have LOVED to have been a fly on the wall of the back room deals that got Palin on McCain's ticket and the one that got Hilary Clinton to smile and back off.

I trust Perry about as far as I can throw the Great State of Texas and Cain/Bachmann half as far as that.

I see the next term being a railroad accident in the happening. Depending on who wins, it's going to be a single party government. And I honestly can't see either being trustworthy anymore.


Offline Oniya

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I've been relatively happy with Sherrod Brown, not so much with Kucinich and Renacci (that whole 'cozy with my insides' bit).

Offline Serephino

I'm mostly happy with my Rep, but the Republicans wants to get rid of his seat in the whole redistricting thing.  Yes, he's a Democrat.  Other than that, they all suck. 

I think Obama is doing the best he can considering the circumstances.  I know he isn't getting much done, but most of the things he wanted to do he needs the support of Congress for.  He isn't getting it.  He can help write bills I think, but if it doesn't get through both houses, what do people want him to do, wave a magic wand?  I swear that's what people expected when he was elected.  Things weren't all fixed right away so people got mad and elected a bunch of nutbag Republicans.  That's what caused the mess we're in right now.

I'm glad I'm not a Republican because honestly if I had to pick one of those clowns.... I swear...  I guess we'll see who ends up winning the nomination. 

Offline sinfultictac

I used to like Ron Paul unlike he signed the Personhood USA Pledge. I just don't think it is a little hypocritical to say "FREEDOM SMALL GOVERNMENT" then to sign a pledge that says that one believes that life begins at conception.
The political news lately has really got me down. I feel like I am just living in a angry/confused time.

Offline Oniya

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It is an angry/confused time.  Oddly enough, when I accepted that aspect of it - and that other people were feeling that way, and not just me - I felt a bit better about it.  I still get a little annoyed at the folks that say that the people actually speaking out about it are all 'darn kids', because I've seen the diversity in the protesters (and hell, I'd be out there myself if I was somewhere other than BFE).

Offline Ironwolf85

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I am voting in the republican primary, because I feel like having at least a marginal say in this race.
voting for ron paul because the rest of them tweak me somthing serious, i have less issues about him than the rest of them. I'd have loved to just put a collar on bachmann and zap her each time she said somthing that was completely historically wrong. buuuut she'd be dead and Palin'd be smoldering ashes now.
history buff, in depth study of history... I wanted to punch her...

I decided to stop being pessimistic and try and do somthing. first time I voted i voted for obama and my family all acted like i'd doomed the country by not voting for Mccain who they'd all voted for in each election, he seemed a brilliant canidate, and I liked his ideas.
then he tapped Palin as Vp, and I swung in the other direction.

I'm voting for Ron Paul in the primary because he's not a moron, he is the closest to moderate, and thank god. i know where he stands and what I disagree with.

also of all the canidates who were asked "would you put an amendment in the constitution banning gay marrage?" he said "no I would not" everyone else signed pledges. i know he probably said that because he thinks that's not a constutional issue, but a state one, but it made me smile

of my predicted losers... not on facts but how people seem to feel about them.

Newt comes off after his namesake, a bit slimy, and loves playing in the mud, he gives everybody who didn't vote for Regan the willies.
Bachmann was insanely right wing, harkening back to the days of "commies, pinkos, and liberals" being put on trial, and had no concept of history. boot to da head.
Herman Cain had chrisma and busness sense but didn't know jack squat about polics, he always seemed lecherious to me, and i was right.
Ron paul is a constutionalist, and stern, he comes off as somthing of a grandfather who doesn't tow the party line. that's why he's popular, but being so far from the party leadership's "Stated Values" is handicapping as it is liberating.
Perry makes me and a lot of people look sideways at him and I don't know where he stands.
Rick seems energetic, but a lot of people don't know about mormons and thus will steryotype him.
Rommny looks like the GOP posterboy, and will probably clinch it but he loves big biz too much, and his tenure as governer was good for texas, his work as a CEO was terrible for everyone. buying up smaller companies and dismantling them for a profit, and shipping jobs overseas, and a wooden persionality on par with al-gore will kick him in the balls repitidly.

Then we have the prez, lets face it folks, Obama has lost that "new president shine" and the far right is rabid out to get him for anything and everything. he also has a track record now, and they are going to slap him with the "Obamacare" label as much as possable. However they cannot attack his persional life, which , and while he's floudered at home his international gains are nothing to scoff at. not to mention after eight years of bush failing to do so and vast expendatures of money, blood, and two wars, Obama had Bin Ladin killed with good intelligence and a covert seals team. that is bound to come up especally with military voters.

Obama is most likely going to get my vote for president. maybe with people not expecting change overnight and getting pissed off, something might get done, and people might be willing to start talking to each other a bit. not to mention the international relations have improved greatly, and we got bin ladin.

feels good to get this off my chest.

Offline Serephino

Herman Cain made my skin crawl from the first day I laid eyes on him.  I had the urge to beat him with a blunt object and didn't know why until all that crap came out about him.  I'm usually right about stuff like that. 

Ron Paul does seem like the lesser evil.  I agree with most of what he says.  He did say he thinks gay marriage is a state issue, which is better than spewing religious crap.

Offline Trieste

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Smaller government is fine in theory, but then you look at some of the things the government does.

The FDA. Makes sure that we're not taking arsenic with our Prozac. Kind of important.
The EPA. Watches over the water we drink and the air we breathe. Also rather important.
OSHA. Tries to make sure that construction workers aren't breathing in tons of asbestos on every project.
The USDA. Makes sure that we're not being sold ground, moldy horsemeat in place of ground beef.

These are things that many GOP candidates, including Paul, seem to think are fluff. Why do we need the EPA? Why not let the companies regulate themselves? Why do we need OSHA? Surely companies will protect their precious employees. The list goes on. Make no mistake, Ron Paul is not a friend of people with less than a six-figure income and a packed stock portfolio.

Offline adifferenceinsize

Smaller government is fine in theory, but then you look at some of the things the government does.

The FDA. Makes sure that we're not taking arsenic with our Prozac. Kind of important.
The EPA. Watches over the water we drink and the air we breathe. Also rather important.
OSHA. Tries to make sure that construction workers aren't breathing in tons of asbestos on every project.
The USDA. Makes sure that we're not being sold ground, moldy horsemeat in place of ground beef.

These are things that many GOP candidates, including Paul, seem to think are fluff. Why do we need the EPA? Why not let the companies regulate themselves? Why do we need OSHA? Surely companies will protect their precious employees. The list goes on. Make no mistake, Ron Paul is not a friend of people with less than a six-figure income and a packed stock portfolio.

That's the fun fact of the issue you find all too often with a lot of people on the right. Ron Paul's the only one who basically full on doesn't give a shit - hardcore libertarianism can somewhat allow the government to act against individuals and companies only in enforcement of legal tort, which is the case I've seen for an actual move away from any gov't regulation at all. For the rest though? I love hearing a politician when they'll basically say something like, "so, I support the government helping to make it easier for individuals to get health insurance on the free market, and we want to make sure we have some reasonable controls in place, BUT WE MUST STOP THE BILL THAT DOES THAT BECAUSE WE DIDN'T GET THE CREDIT FOR IT!" or "Look, the government should totally be able to stop excesses with pollution but THAT DAMN EPA NEEDS TO GO!"

I hate to say it, but I feel Obama's the best Republican choice there is for 2012 - in any time except the past 4 years, every single thing he's done would've been lauded every day on Fox News and the big radio shows if Pres. Barry O'Bame (R) did them. Public mandate for corporate healthcare? Literally the Republican counter to the Clinton single-payer move. The draw down in troops after killing Bin Laden and a gang of other other top Al Qaeda officials? He would literally have become Reagan 2.0. His administration has been slow on putting in new EPA regulations, and after the mega spills of oil in the Gulf of Mexico and up north, offshore drilling has been basically unabated and we're probably going to get the super pipeline in the end. Oh yeah, and the most rampant deportations ever. The saddest part is that Obama hasn't really moved politically; he always came off as basically another Bill Clinton type, mildly progressive on social matters but right in the Washington midsection for economics. But because he's a Democrat, we've just bit shifted right out of our minds.

Part of me would love to see Ron Paul get in office. I, however, find myself somewhat in agreement with the Santorum criticism - everything about his policies that scare me would be relatively easy for him to change, while most of the potentially good things he would do will just never make it through Congress. And if we're going down that road, I'd really rather see Newt Gingrich get in - if we're going to burn down the house, I want it done in style! And boy would he deliver; if we weren't at war with like three random countries because of perceived personal sleights, I'd be disappointed.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Rommny looks like the GOP posterboy, and will probably clinch it but he loves big biz too much, and his tenure as governer was good for texas, his work as a CEO was terrible for everyone. buying up smaller companies and dismantling them for a profit, and shipping jobs overseas, and a wooden persionality on par with al-gore will kick him in the balls repitidly.



By 'Texas' did you mean Massachusetts, or was that a not-so-subtle Bush slam?

Offline alxnjsh

I think Obama is doing the best he can considering the circumstances.  I know he isn't getting much done, but most of the things he wanted to do he needs the support of Congress for.  He isn't getting it.  He can help write bills I think, but if it doesn't get through both houses, what do people want him to do, wave a magic wand?  I swear that's what people expected when he was elected.  Things weren't all fixed right away so people got mad and elected a bunch of nutbag Republicans.  That's what caused the mess we're in right now.


Thank you!

Offline Serephino

It still scares me that some of the worst nutjobs of all got elected solely on the promise of making Obama a one-term President.  I know our votes are supposed to be our voice, but seriously....  Use your brains people!

Offline OldSchoolGamer

I get amused watching the antics of the candidates.  It really is great theater...especially since America's leaders haven't been elected in at least a generation, if not two:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/

Those are the leaders of America.  Whoever sits in the Oval Office is their front man.  The occupant of the White House either follows orders, or he suffers a "scandal" or "accident" and resigns in disgrace, or gets fished out of the Potomac. 

Now when racketeers look for front men, they want people just smart enough to push the buttons.  They don't want people capable of independent thought and initiative.  The last serious contender for the White House who was not part of that system was Ross Perot.  Ross Perot was the last person to actually run for President of the United States (as opposed to corporate front man).  I've little doubt he pulled out because the Forbes 400 told him, in as many words, that he would end up laid out next to Jimmy Hoffa within two months of Inauguration Day if he kept running and won.

So by all means, grab some popcorn and laugh along.  But don't be fooled...the U.S. elections are a sham, held strictly for public consumption.

Offline Ironwolf85

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interisting viewpoint, though I'm guessing it was supposed to sound smart and whitty and less embittered and parinoid?
though I can see why after supporting ross who lost, and living through the bush administration's blatant corruption, you'd be embittered.

the nation fluxuates, changes, and we must do the best we can to try and make sure it's for the better. I'm going to try and do my part by trying to live a good life. best I can do I think.

and yes that was a slight poking at romney in a bush-like compasison, kinda fail there.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

The two that scare me most are the #4s.. the Koch Brothers.. these two men have done more than anything to subvert the abilty of the governement to do ANYTHING in the way of protecting the average man. I think they are quite possibly the most evil and underhanded men to run around since J Edgar cacked off to his final reward/punishment.

The scarey part (to me) is there is one (very very distant) relative in the first page. (He's like a fifth or sixth cousin removed.. )
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 09:56:02 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline vtboy

The very scariest thing: people tend to get the government they deserve. Woe betide us all.