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Author Topic: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill  (Read 2228 times)

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Offline Oniya

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Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 01:36:06 PM »
In addition: 
Quote
An additional 1,762 remains, which could not be DNA tested because of damage from explosions, were gathered from the battlefield and dumped in a similar manner, the Air Force told the newspaper.

Seriously - I thought that was what the Tomb of the Unknowns was for?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, 01:50:43 PM »
The word that comes to mind is one my old 7th grade teacher used to use.. 'Gobsmacked'.

I'm beyond stunned.. and way way way way past furious.

You don't disrespect ANYONE like this.

Offline Haloriel

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Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2011, 02:31:44 PM »
Yes, this is really bad.  Terribly disrespectful.  I cannot imagine in what state of mind anyone would think this is a good idea.

Offline Type70item

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2011, 02:42:06 PM »
As a recent US Army veteran, I am APPALED and disgusted those men and women dedicated their lives to serving their superiors and this country, there is NO EXCUSE for them being tosses away like trash.

I suggest everybody who read this share it on their facebook, twitter, etc. however they can so the governement knows they cant treat our servicmembers like this and cover it up

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 03:25:57 PM »
Seriously.. someone better get their nuts in a vice over this.. I'm a retired Naval Vet and this is wrong on so many levels.

Offline Brandon

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 04:39:35 PM »
I have no words for how angry this makes me feel. There is just no excuse for it, none. The commanding officer that made this decision at the very least needs to loose their rank and at worst needs to spend some time in prison. Furthermore there needs to be a full investigation of the owners of the landfill and criminal charges filed for trafficking in human remains

I mean this has been going on since 2003? I know good men and women who fell in Iraq who could have their last physical remains in there. What the hell happened to spreading ashes near ones home or on post? I just...I dont even have the words to express how wrong this is.

Offline Empyrean

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 04:43:30 PM »
This is sick and wrong. And officials have the gall to complain it would take too much time and effort to go back through the records? Unforgivable. Heads need to roll over this, and every one of those vets needs to be identified and returned to their families for a proper and respectful burial.

Offline Type70item

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2011, 04:50:38 PM »
After reading this, I fully intend to spread this story to all my buddies who are still in the service so that they can spread it right up the chain of command, perhaps enough letters of anger from officers and NCO's alike will get the government to make a formal apology and at least TRY to make this better

The thought of my brothers and sisters in arms not receiving the hero's burial that they deserved, seriously damages the faith I once had in those in command

Offline Jude

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2011, 05:44:08 PM »
Lets assume that the US government saved, say, 1 million dollars by disposing of their bodies this way.  I'm curious to know whether or not those who are outraged by this would rather that 1 million dollars go to help the deceased's families or to give them a traditional burial?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2011, 05:56:07 PM »
Lets assume that the US government saved, say, 1 million dollars by disposing of their bodies this way.  I'm curious to know whether or not those who are outraged by this would rather that 1 million dollars go to help the deceased's families or to give them a traditional burial?

We owe a debt to the men and women we send out in harms way. You HONOR the dead. You can't tell me that going the extra effort of picking up a god damned phone, contacting the family and asking what to do with remains. You can spread them on the sea, a base or other places.

To just.. throw away the incinerated remains of our serviceman is an INSULT of the first order. We have units that do nothing but put our fallen to rest.. we spend MILLIONS defending the right to conduct funerals of our fallen without interruption. There is a constant battle in the courts over the right to assemble and free speech against honoring our dead.

I swore an oath five times in service. To defend and uphold the Constitution, to obey the orders of those above me. To protect those who might not hold me in high regard or feel that I'm a puppet at the hand of which over political hack is in office. I've been cussed at, sneered at, looked down on because I was too lazy to get a 'real job'. I don't give a damn about what folks think about serving their country, it's a personal choice.

But you fucking owe those have fallen in service.

You don't throw them away like trash.

Offline Type70item

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2011, 06:04:32 PM »
We owe a debt to the men and women we send out in harms way. You HONOR the dead. You can't tell me that going the extra effort of picking up a god damned phone, contacting the family and asking what to do with remains. You can spread them on the sea, a base or other places.

To just.. throw away the incinerated remains of our serviceman is an INSULT of the first order. We have units that do nothing but put our fallen to rest.. we spend MILLIONS defending the right to conduct funerals of our fallen without interruption. There is a constant battle in the courts over the right to assemble and free speech against honoring our dead.

I swore an oath five times in service. To defend and uphold the Constitution, to obey the orders of those above me. To protect those who might not hold me in high regard or feel that I'm a puppet at the hand of which over political hack is in office. I've been cussed at, sneered at, looked down on because I was too lazy to get a 'real job'. I don't give a damn about what folks think about serving their country, it's a personal choice.

But you fucking owe those have fallen in service.

You don't throw them away like trash.

Agreed, saving momey is a moot point, those who died in combat, regardless of wether or not that combat is approved of my the majority, still deserve to be honored for a sacrifice they weren't asked to make, one they chose to do.

Knights of the olde days may no longer exist, but the ideals and dedications held by US soldiers are exactly the same

Offline Brandon

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2011, 06:29:03 PM »
Lets assume that the US government saved, say, 1 million dollars by disposing of their bodies this way.  I'm curious to know whether or not those who are outraged by this would rather that 1 million dollars go to help the deceased's families or to give them a traditional burial?

You've said some pretty insensitive and outright offensive things in the past but this takes the cake.

Beyond that you need to read the actual article Jude. The remains leftover are things like ashes. These soldiers were cremated and under the impression that they would be disposed of in a respectful manner. What is respectful about some landfill out in the boondocks?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2011, 06:36:34 PM »
Lets assume that the US government saved, say, 1 million dollars by disposing of their bodies this way.  I'm curious to know whether or not those who are outraged by this would rather that 1 million dollars go to help the deceased's families or to give them a traditional burial?

By "help the deceaseds' families', I assume you mean 'buy 1700 toilet seats for the Pentagon'?


OT - wow, this is disgusting and shameful. Editing my Gmail chat status now.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 06:38:02 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Jude

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2011, 07:08:40 PM »
You've said some pretty insensitive and outright offensive things in the past but this takes the cake.

Beyond that you need to read the actual article Jude. The remains leftover are things like ashes. These soldiers were cremated and under the impression that they would be disposed of in a respectful manner. What is respectful about some landfill out in the boondocks?
Brandon, all I asked was a question.  I didn't say that anything about this was respectful.  I made no statements about that -- I asked a question.

Do I consider this disrespectful to the men and women who had their bodies disposed in such a way?  Yes, it is disrespectful for the portion of your post I italics'd above.  They made an agreement to handle their bodies in a certain way and that agreement should have been upheld.

Offline Noelle

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2011, 07:26:57 PM »
I'm by no means a mod, but it was a hypothetical question, which is not the same as saying "it's a good idea to toss deceased soldiers in the dump". I understand this is a sensitive subject, but at least try to step back and give someone the benefit of the doubt before lashing out emotionally and dogpiling.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2011, 07:50:19 PM »
Alrighty then. Rather than allowing this thread grenade to devolve into emotional dogpiling, you two are no longer welcome in P&R.

Please carry on, otherwise.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 07:51:30 PM by Trieste »

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Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2011, 08:50:59 PM »
This is terrible, I'm so saddened to hear of it. Those men gave their lives in service and their families will likely never even know forsure that they are gone, if these are truly unidentified bodies. Indeed, I agree with Oniya that this is what the Tomb of the Unknown is for. Very disappointing. :'(

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2011, 09:16:47 PM »
Disgusting; no armed service in its right mind should dip to treating anyone's remains this way, least of all its own men and women who have been killed in the line of duty.

And I agree with Oniya: if the remains are really beyond identification, then bury them at the Tomb of the Unknown - or locally in a communal grave with a monument or headstone upon it.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2011, 09:26:32 PM »
Disgusting; no armed service in its right mind should dip to treating anyone's remains this way, least of all its own men and women who have been killed in the line of duty.

And I agree with Oniya: if the remains are really beyond identification, then bury them at the Tomb of the Unknown - or locally in a communal grave with a monument or headstone upon it.

there has been a moment or under current of never again putting another soldier into the Tomb. No man or woman unnamed, no child unclaimed by the families that love them. Never again. It's a pointed element beyond the drive to find faster and better ways to ID people.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2011, 09:32:19 PM »
Yes (I'm a forensics freak, so I follow this sort of thing), but when the best has been tried - better to just admit you don't know and give them a place of honor.  If nothing else, the family that is left waiting has some place to point to.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2011, 10:07:18 PM »
Quote from: Oniya
Yes (I'm a forensics freak, so I follow this sort of thing), but when the best has been tried - better to just admit you don't know and give them a place of honor.  If nothing else, the family that is left waiting has some place to point to.


Yes, having a place to point to, to turn your grief, is a lot more important than the actual bones sometimes. In most countries that have a tradition of engaging with the sea, if a ship goes down and one cannot retrieve all of the dead, or if it would be impossibly dangerous or expensive to do so, the wreck of that ship counts as the grave - and families, parishes or cities may put up cenotaphs ("empty graves") and memorials on land. As with the Titanic or so many ships sunk in war.

It's an idea not embraced by everyone but I think most people do accept it.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 10:16:25 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2011, 12:29:36 AM »
Furthermore there needs to be a full investigation of the owners of the landfill and criminal charges filed for trafficking in human remains

Just noting: a certain degree of incineration (which they may or may not have met) is actually the one process that makes it legal to dispose of human tissue in general purpose landfills. I am not sure that anything about this was actually criminal. Now, the military certainly should have honored any commitment it had to the families of the deceased to dispose of their remains in a way the family would deem respectful. However, given that the military has been known to operate at times in a reckless/wasteful manner and that it conceals information from the families of troops while they are alive, I am not surprised that it continues to do so after their death.

Offline Serephino

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 01:05:21 AM »
It doesn't seem like it would have been difficult to at least go to a nice nearby field to scatter the ashes.  Even that would have been better.  And for those who had been identified, if they didn't want to deal with it, why not turn the ashes over to the families?

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Air Force dumps the remains of 274 members into a landfill
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 01:32:50 AM »
It doesn't seem like it would have been difficult to at least go to a nice nearby field to scatter the ashes.  Even that would have been better.  And for those who had been identified, if they didn't want to deal with it, why not turn the ashes over to the families?

This is a very good question. I doubt many of people would be experiencing the same outrage if they were scattered over the sea or perhaps a national park with some degree of ceremony. I think the rage is mostly coming from the symbolic associations with a landfill.