You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 02, 2016, 02:12:44 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Osama Bin Laden is Dead  (Read 15197 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hellion000

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2011, 05:39:12 PM »
Aaaand Hairy wins the intarwebz with his "I'll make you laugh until you can't type" moment.

Offline RemielTopic starter

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2011, 05:40:20 PM »
Oh my god, that's right! Jeff Dunham's stock just went way up!

Offline Zeitgeist

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2011, 06:01:32 PM »
While the lion's share of congratulations goes to the military special forces and the intelligence communities, I think Obama deserves credit for staying the course and keeping the pressure on Al Qaeda. That said, closing Gitmo may have denied us a crucial piece of intelligence that led us to the compound in Pakistan.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2011, 07:05:47 PM »
The cynic in me wants to say, "By killing everyone who holds that idea."

After all, today speaks of Catharism? Manichaeism seems to be a dead movement in the history of ideas.

Ideas die when people forget.

"Kill them all, the Lord will know his own." is still remembered today as "Kill them all and let God sort them out." Gnosticism in general has a long history of persecution, beginning with giving too much respect to women. Considering that Gnosticism holds some of Christianity's most compelling mythology, it's certainly spoken of.

While the lion's share of congratulations goes to the military special forces and the intelligence communities, I think Obama deserves credit for staying the course and keeping the pressure on Al Qaeda. That said, closing Gitmo may have denied us a crucial piece of intelligence that led us to the compound in Pakistan.

Gitmo is still open. What are you talking about?

Offline Branwen

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2011, 07:15:33 PM »
I'm not unhappy that a truly evil person has been removed from the Earth, but I can find little to celebrate about it when so many remain in harm's way, both soldier and civilian, and so many are dead and injured.  I just hope that this will allow us to begin planning on leaving the two wars and wiping some of the jingoistic filth we've smeared on the Constitution off.

Offline drivingmissdaisy

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2011, 10:10:41 PM »
I'm not unhappy that a truly evil person has been removed from the Earth, but I can find little to celebrate about it when so many remain in harm's way, both soldier and civilian, and so many are dead and injured.  I just hope that this will allow us to begin planning on leaving the two wars and wiping some of the jingoistic filth we've smeared on the Constitution off.

I also have a difficult time celebrating the death of a human, no matter how evil. Though, I do find great relief in cutting off the head of a monster who's bankroll has paid for thousands of deaths and the closure now offered to those that lost loved ones on 9/11 and beyond.

I can appreciate your graphic depiction of "smearing the Constitution" but the analogy doesn't really make sense to me. Who's not upholding the Constitution? If you mean to say that you don't appreciate the war then that's an opinion to have but I'm not sure I understand why that makes our Constitution dirty or somehow corrupt?

That being said...it was a great victory and great efforts of our servicemen and their leaders to close in on Osama. The mission accomplished (pull out the old banner) should be appreciated as a complete product of teamwork across party lines. America, fuck yeah.

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2011, 11:21:39 PM »
I feel they buried him at sea so there would be no tomb or shrine where his body is located


Offline Vekseid

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2011, 12:02:10 AM »
I feel they buried him at sea so there would be no tomb or shrine where his body is located

Per Islamic tradition the body must be buried within 24 hours, and there was probably concern over the body getting desecrated.

I can appreciate your graphic depiction of "smearing the Constitution" but the analogy doesn't really make sense to me. Who's not upholding the Constitution? If you mean to say that you don't appreciate the war then that's an opinion to have but I'm not sure I understand why that makes our Constitution dirty or somehow corrupt?

The suspension of habeas corpus and violation of privacy (warrentless wiretaps, the overly intrusive TSA scans) comes to mind.

Offline Brandon

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2011, 12:05:33 AM »
I feel they buried him at sea so there would be no tomb or shrine where his body is located

I certainly hope not. The greatest respect America can show to Muslims in this situation is to give him a proper burial according to their traditions. As I understand those traditions, that is to bury him within a day of his death and with him facing Mecca.

If the proper last rights werent given then I think all muslms including American ones would have every right to be angry. Its no different then burning a copy of the Quran IMO. We have to take the high road to show that this was about paying back the individual, not making an enemy of a faith.

Offline Bloody Rose

  • Suspended
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Dreamland, with all the dream bunnies!
  • Gender: Male
  • I live my life at the moment, nothing else matters
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2011, 12:15:14 AM »
I am personally glad that this freak is dead. He caused so many misery and pain to so many families with the wtc attack that he should deserve to be tortured then killed. I lost a friend to the attacks of the world trade center and I am glad that finally he is avenged.

Offline Brandon

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2011, 12:35:27 AM »
I keep hearing "Justice has been served" and "America has been avenged". However I think has it? He is dead, and he can never harm us again by direct planning or action but that seems the easy way. With his death I wonder if we have been robbed of the right to judge him and make him face punishment for his crimes. He escaped our punishments which to me means that Justice escaped us. Instead of being judged and punished by us he will be judged and punished by Allah (I hope I spelled that right)

Perhaps its just me but even though I was sure we would never take him alive I feel like we've been cheated

Offline Zakharra

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2011, 12:58:00 AM »
I certainly hope not. The greatest respect America can show to Muslims in this situation is to give him a proper burial according to their traditions. As I understand those traditions, that is to bury him within a day of his death and with him facing Mecca.

If the proper last rights werent given then I think all muslms including American ones would have every right to be angry. Its no different then burning a copy of the Quran IMO. We have to take the high road to show that this was about paying back the individual, not making an enemy of a faith.

 Concidering what these muslim terrorists have done to us and our troops, they're damned lucky we didn't dismember his body, stuff it in the corpse of a pig and kick it off the side of the boat head down facing south.  If ANY muslim gets mad at us for how we disposed of him, they are, bluntly, fucking morons.  None of the enemies we are fighting show any respect for  our dead when they kill him. Beheading was common in Iraq I believe, and I remember the burned bodies of soldiers being dragged behind vehicals and then hung and celebrated. 

 If we were to pay back the individual, then I'd be for treating his corpse just like his people have treated ours.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2011, 01:24:25 AM »
Concidering what these muslim terrorists have done to us and our troops, they're damned lucky we didn't dismember his body, stuff it in the corpse of a pig and kick it off the side of the boat head down facing south.  If ANY muslim gets mad at us for how we disposed of him, they are, bluntly, fucking morons.  None of the enemies we are fighting show any respect for  our dead when they kill him. Beheading was common in Iraq I believe, and I remember the burned bodies of soldiers being dragged behind vehicals and then hung and celebrated. 

 If we were to pay back the individual, then I'd be for treating his corpse just like his people have treated ours.

Sorry Zak, just because the other side is stuck in the 10th century's rules of war doesn't mean we need to stoop to their level. I was saddened by stories of abuse in the prisons a few years ago and I applaud the military for their professional and smart treatment of the body. That dog don't hunt no more. That is good enough for me. 

Offline PearlRuby

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2011, 06:30:58 AM »
Hollywood already plan on cashing in on his death, naturally.

Quote
The death of Osama bin Laden could mean a rewrite for a film about the al-Qaida leader from Oscar winner Kathryn Bigelow.

A film about the hunt for Osama bin Laden could be on its way to the big screen, according to reports.

The Oscar-winning director of The Hurt Locker, Kathryn Bigelow, has been planning a movie about the US special forces team that killed the al-Qaida leader for some time, Variety (paywall) says. The film was thought to focus on a previous unsuccessful attempt to get Bin Laden, but as the project tentatively titled Kill Bin Laden is still in development, screenwriter Mark Boal could easily include details of the 40-minute firefight at a compound in Pakistan which led to Bin Laden's death.

Variety cites sources close to Boal, a former journalist who used his experiences embedded with a bomb squad in Iraq to inform his script for The Hurt Locker, suggesting that the screenplay for the project will now be rewritten.

"For him, the timing of Bin Laden's death could hardly be better: had it come much later, making changes would have been a scramble, but it's still late enough to maximise the movie's timeliness," Variety says.

Rival industry magazine the Hollywood Reporter says its sources believe Bigelow and Boal will spend this week deciding their next move, and speculates they could lose interest in the wake of the likely announcement of a rash of rival projects. The 9/11 bombings became the subject of a number of films, including Oliver Stone's World Trade Center and Paul Greengrass's United 93, about the heroism of passengers who prevented a fourth plane from hitting the terrorists' mark in 2001.

Bigelow, who has declined to comment on Kill Bin Laden in the wake of the terrorist leader's death, became the first female film-maker to win the best director Oscar for her work on The Hurt Locker in 2010. Focusing on a US bomb disposal unit working in Iraq, the low-budget film shot mainly guerrilla style on location in the Middle East beat its rival Avatar, the 3D box-office behemoth by Bigelow's former husband James Cameron. It won a total of six Oscars, including the best original screenplay award for Boal.

Original source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-film-kathryn-bigelow

Offline Inerrant Lust

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2011, 06:53:32 AM »
STRATFOR knows what's up. The analysis.

"STRATFOR has been cited by media such as CNN, Bloomberg, the Associated Press, Reuters, The New York Times and the BBC as an authority on strategic and tactical intelligence issues."

Offline drivingmissdaisy

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2011, 08:14:53 AM »
Per Islamic tradition the body must be buried within 24 hours, and there was probably concern over the body getting desecrated.

The suspension of habeas corpus and violation of privacy (warrentless wiretaps, the overly intrusive TSA scans) comes to mind.

If you're referring to holding and interrogating enemy combatants (such as was discussed in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld), ultimately the key that lead to the successful mission that located and killed Osama, I'm not sure that I would call that such a bad thing. Especially when you can be essentially denied due process in this country for something as simple as going to Bankruptcy court or any other Agency that the Government contests are administrative and therefore your Right to a Jury is outrightly denied. Am I fan of the patriot act? Or the sheer emotional reaction that occurred after 9/11? Absolutely not. But I think that the Judicial Branch of our Government consistently serves its role in corrective interpretation of legislative acts.

And in regards to TSA scans...who cares. Myself and I'm sure many others have thought of the lack of safety involved with getting on an airplane even after 9/11 and all of the ways someone could get around inadequate TSA procedures. Do I think it could be an infringement on 4th amendment search and seizure? Possibly. But we give up that right when you get pulled over and give a police officer rights to search you when they ask and you respond yes (which is really the only response given statistically). I would strip down naked in front of the crowd (but maybe I'm just a voyeur) if it meant I wasn't getting on a plane with weapons and crazies.

Offline Branwen

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2011, 08:52:20 AM »
I can appreciate your graphic depiction of "smearing the Constitution" but the analogy doesn't really make sense to me. Who's not upholding the Constitution?
Hi, Drivingmissdaisy.  Thank you for commenting and asking for clarification.  I did a poor job of expressing my point and appreciate the feedback.

Since 9/11, numerous abrogations have been made to every American's Constitutionally guaranteed rights, most notable infringements of the 4th Amendment.  Warrantless wiretaps, denial of Freedom of Information Act requests under the broad and unimpeachable umbrella of national security, a No Fly list with no recourse to discover how and why you were placed on it and might be removed, the entire Patriot Act, TSA 'security', American citizens held at Gitmo and so on.  That's not my America, that's not my Constitution.  By allowing our government to take away our rights in the name of national security and by allowing them to start two wars for highly specious reasons shames me as an American.

Offline Hellion000

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2011, 09:03:19 AM »
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." - B. Franklin.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B. Franklin.

Having quoted the above, might I recommend that we put aside ideological and political differences for a few days and revel in the fact that we're Americans?

Offline Pointless Digression

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2011, 09:37:48 AM »
Having quoted the above, might I recommend that we put aside ideological and political differences for a few days and revel in the fact that we're Americans?

Isn't reveling in being American the chief past-time of Americans?

Offline Zakharra

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2011, 09:54:44 AM »
Sorry Zak, just because the other side is stuck in the 10th century's rules of war doesn't mean we need to stoop to their level. I was saddened by stories of abuse in the prisons a few years ago and I applaud the military for their professional and smart treatment of the body. That dog don't hunt no more. That is good enough for me.

 War is hell. It's violent, brutal and very very messy. It should be treated that way. The limitations we place upon it is solely because we, as the nations, can do so. Those we fight, especially those who are from movements and ideas like Al'Queda) are a LOT harder to fight than a nation. With enemy nations, you can have rules of war, exchange of prisoners and such.

You cannot have that with an ideology. They NEVER ever follow any 'civilized' rules. All wars are normally fought with the tactics of the enemy. If we do not adopt some of their tactics, we lose.  This is one place having a media has hurt the ability to make and fight a war.  Seeing the images of death and destruction sickens many people because they are seeing the brutal and violent face of war for the first time in the comforts of their homes.  If that stops people from wanting to fight, it puts us at a severe disadvantage since the enemy has no problem causing such death and will attempt to capitalize on it to weaken the will of the enemy public. 

 The hiding amongst civilians, human shields and such. It works against the US public. Some among us whine and moan because civilians were killed and say we shouldn't be fighting and killng innocents. To those people (through out the world) I say 'Grow up"  We minimize as many casualites as we can. That is  ALL we can do, but there will be casualties. Unless we give up and refuse to fight for fear of killing innocent civilians.  In which case we might as well slit out own throat.

 Another part of the problem is that we might punish the individual, but the body of his movement and supporters will take it personally. Which does make it difficult to deal with them.  I would not have minded if they'd  treated his corpse like they have ours, but they will be unable to separate the individual punishment from themselves.  As it's happening now.  Promises of revenge are already being  shouted.

Offline Aiden

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2011, 11:01:33 AM »
Pretty cool story, not to far off-topic.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/121107609.html

Guy vows not to shave after 9/11 attacks until Usama is dead, before and after pictures.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2011, 12:08:49 PM »
 Wow.. That was a long beard.

Offline Cheka Man

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2011, 03:19:01 PM »
As long as Bin Laden's.

Online MagicalPen

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2011, 03:54:39 PM »
War is hell. It's violent, brutal and very very messy. It should be treated that way. The limitations we place upon it is solely because we, as the nations, can do so. Those we fight, especially those who are from movements and ideas like Al'Queda) are a LOT harder to fight than a nation. With enemy nations, you can have rules of war, exchange of prisoners and such.

You cannot have that with an ideology. They NEVER ever follow any 'civilized' rules. All wars are normally fought with the tactics of the enemy. If we do not adopt some of their tactics, we lose.  This is one place having a media has hurt the ability to make and fight a war.  Seeing the images of death and destruction sickens many people because they are seeing the brutal and violent face of war for the first time in the comforts of their homes.  If that stops people from wanting to fight, it puts us at a severe disadvantage since the enemy has no problem causing such death and will attempt to capitalize on it to weaken the will of the enemy public. 

 The hiding amongst civilians, human shields and such. It works against the US public. Some among us whine and moan because civilians were killed and say we shouldn't be fighting and killng innocents. To those people (through out the world) I say 'Grow up"  We minimize as many casualites as we can. That is  ALL we can do, but there will be casualties. Unless we give up and refuse to fight for fear of killing innocent civilians.  In which case we might as well slit out own throat.

 Another part of the problem is that we might punish the individual, but the body of his movement and supporters will take it personally. Which does make it difficult to deal with them.  I would not have minded if they'd  treated his corpse like they have ours, but they will be unable to separate the individual punishment from themselves.  As it's happening now.  Promises of revenge are already being  shouted.

I've always found it ironic that we have rules and laws governing how we can kill people during a War. 'XX round is too big, so we can only use X round, to kill people'. Its just seems a little...moronic? If the object is to kill the other side, I am not quire sure how limiting the size of the round you are using accomplishes that. Dead is dead isn't it?

The problem with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is that its not a traditional war. There aren't two sides lining up, fighting each other. The US Military is clearly marked, but the enemy is not. They look like Civilians and hide amongst the Civilians. They know they are vastly overpowered by the US, so to limit their own losses they use the Civilians as a Shield. That is why so many Civilians are being killed. Its very hard, in the heat of the moment, to identify a target when everyone looks the same - aka no uniform.

Or cases where the Military does exist, but their HQ is in the basement of a Hospital...if you want to take the HQ out, you have to take the Hospital out as well. Civilian Shields again. Warfare is evolving...much like the difference between WWI (Static Defense, Trench Warfare) to WWII (Mobile Warfare, Air Power, greater distances). Success depends on how well one adapts to this Warfare.

The US is relatively doing a good job. As Osamas death indicates, precision strikes are the way to go about it. No US Casualties, Target Identified and Eliminated, minimal collateral damage. Quick, surgical strikes are the best way to fight against an Insurgency that masks itself as Civilians.

Offline Brandon

Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2011, 04:03:35 PM »
The reason for the rules of warfare that was created during the Geneva convention was to take a lot of the barbarism out of war. If conflicts in both world wars, the korean war, and desert storm did not go by those rules we would see a lot of things done by both sides that we would consider atrocities right now.

Simply put, the rules of war are there for a reason and I would never want to see a world where war was conducted with out them