The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'

[Twisted Crow]

Yeah. My Dad and Pop are also in that crowd that are buying into Biden stealing the election.

And to better contextualize what I was saying... I don’t think we should compromise with the actions at the Capitol, either. But I was mostly speaking generally about what I felt was one of the bigger problems that has led up to these four harrowing years in the first place. 

[Oniya]

I think there's a significant difference between 'following one's own path' and 'fence sitting'.  Electing a candidate is not like an oath of loyalty, but more like taking a bus or train.  If I want to get from New York to San Francisco in a certain time-frame, there may not be a no-transfers ticket.  I may have to change in Chicago, or Kansas City, or somewhere else.  It's going to be a bad idea to catch a non-stop to Miami, though.

There are certain things I would like to see this country do.  If I could plop someone in office, it probably wouldn't be one of the existing candidates.  None of them are my 'no-transfers to San Francisco.'  But I'll take the one that's heading for Kansas City over the one that's heading for Miami.  And in the next election, I'll see how they've done as far as getting me there, and I'll look at the other buses.

I also judge capabilities.  There may be a person in the parking lot saying they're a non-stop to San Francisco, but they've got a puddle of oil and antifreeze growing under the vehicle, and three flat tires.

[Regina Minx]

I'm talking about the voters, mostly the disenfranchised working class/ lower-middle-class whites who gave Trump the margins he needed in 2016.  The kind who elected Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Sure, it's easy to say "we are the majority, we won, it's our turn to gloat."  It may even be satisfying.  But the wheel goes around and around, the pendulum swings back and forth, and today's majority may become tomorrow's fractured minority.  That's not how hearts and minds are changed.  I merely propose we take the Daryl Davis route, try to understand the mind of a Trump voter, so that someone like Donald Trump will never be elected President of the United States again.

Don't get me wrong. Thoughtful people will always attempt to see past their own biases and philosophical blindspots. Those with empathy will always try to put themselves into the shoes of people they disagree with. These are positive traits and I try to practice them as much as possible. But the thing is...I don't think "understanding" Trump voters will ameliorate any of the problems that Trump and his presidency have highlighted. Long before he came down that escalator in 2015, there were a lot of people who saw the backlash among right wing people who were angry and terrified by what was happening in the United States. The defeat of Mitt Romney in 2012 brought about the so called "autopsy" of the Republican Party was all about outreach, and called for the party to campaign among "Hispanic, black, Asian, and gay Americans and demonstrate we care about them, too. We must recruit more candidates who come from minority communities."

This was ignored and rejected by Trump and the followers he recruited. The writers of the autopsy understood the slow grind of a demographic shift that would decrease the political power of white, Christian Americans. This created the alarmed sense of displacement and powerlessness that gave us the Trump presidency and Trumpism as a component of modern conservatism. The idea that we must 'understand' these people carries with it the implicit suggestion that we find some ground for compromise. I love to compromise, but as Aristotle said, any virtue carried to an extreme is a vice.

I have to question whether or not compromise is possible for the simple reason that you can't compromise with demography. You can't order numbers to stop being what they are and saying what they say about the composition of this country in the years to come. The only thing you can do is to seize the levers of power and change the rules of the game to blunt and delay the coming of the tide. That's what Trump supporters wanted, and that's what Trump did his best to do. It's great to think that 'understanding' can fix things, but I have a simple question.

When's the last time you heard any Trump supporter talking about the need to understand me, or the demographic groups I represent? When Barack Obama was elected with an unprecedented number of popular votes and flipping solid red states? When he was re-elected, which prompted an autopsy that was ignored? How about when BLM was born, when communities of color said 'hey it's kind of not cool that we're being murdered by police officers with no consequences or accountability?' When Joe Biden won more votes than literally any person in the history of American elections? How about when an African American and a Jewish man won both Senate seats from Georgia, both of them being the first of either group to hold Senate sears from Georgia...oh, and Georgia? It also went blue for the first time in literal decades?

You haven't...those calls have been rare or nonexistent, and that ought to tell you something.

[Maethaneos]

I just want to homestead out in Nowhere with a family of my choosing. We'd do it right. Lots of guns, growing marijuana and psilocybin, permaculture farming, orgies by night. What are the chances? Nothing is impossible. I fear, though, that the primary factor denying me this fantasy would be finding the others for it. You can't do that lifestyle alone and would I be able to convince a homestead's worth of people, blood or not, to take up some off-the-grid anarchist commune type deal? Well, I'll hope. I doubt I'll hear from the successful people almost anywhere on the net.

I don't see a future where any politicians will be trying to enable this kind of future.

I don't see any particularly desirable future societal landscape at all at this rate, knowing what I know. It seems to me that the present iteration and concept of society, at least from where I'm standing, is fundamentally broken. I'm not purple. I'm not purple because it's in reference to a two party system of a failing nation and I have a hard time calling myself a willing citizen. I know that's only a metaphor, though, but insofar as the old political alignment chart goes -- I'm way off of it to no particular direction.

To the current topic of the thread, I'm actually halfway of the mind that the election was stolen from Trump. But only because I'm still undecided if The Powers That Be are all in cahoots or if they're all wicked people who are actually opposed to each other but use politics like a Chess match. What "actually" happened is white noise by now and is just as meaningless.

[Twisted Crow]

Uh... I would like to extend a friendly request that people try to not directly speak on other people’s behalf and experiences in my thread, please?

Though I do have much to say on what has been contributed here. And I believe much of what has been mentioned is good to talk about. Some fair points and fine questions I aim to address when I (hopefully) have more time, today. I am in the middle of errands and other family... things, at the moment.

[Twisted Crow]

To elaborate further, I would like to ask that we all try to remember to not take away voices from other members in our community.

A former staff member once stressed the dangers of this before. And this is something I have tried to take to heart since then. We all make mistakes. We are human, after all.

It is even hard for me saying this to try to contain myself with everything going on with my father and grandfather at the moment. But I am trying for you guys. All I ask is that you all remember to try for me and fellow members that choose to engage here. 

[TheGlyphstone]

To support Dallas's point, remember how much Trumpism has in common with the structure of a cult. We can't reach the self serving opportunists or the genuine bigots, the ones who know his empire is built on lies or just don't care. But many of those seventy million supporters are cultists,  brainwashed into loyalty and taught to self isolate from information sources that contradict it. They might still be salvaged if we don't double down on the ostracization from outside.

[Andol]

Don't get me wrong. Thoughtful people will always attempt to see past their own biases and philosophical blindspots. Those with empathy will always try to put themselves into the shoes of people they disagree with. These are positive traits and I try to practice them as much as possible. But the thing is...I don't think "understanding" Trump voters will ameliorate any of the problems that Trump and his presidency have highlighted. Long before he came down that escalator in 2015, there were a lot of people who saw the backlash among right wing people who were angry and terrified by what was happening in the United States. The defeat of Mitt Romney in 2012 brought about the so called "autopsy" of the Republican Party was all about outreach, and called for the party to campaign among "Hispanic, black, Asian, and gay Americans and demonstrate we care about them, too. We must recruit more candidates who come from minority communities."

This was ignored and rejected by Trump and the followers he recruited. The writers of the autopsy understood the slow grind of a demographic shift that would decrease the political power of white, Christian Americans. This created the alarmed sense of displacement and powerlessness that gave us the Trump presidency and Trumpism as a component of modern conservatism. The idea that we must 'understand' these people carries with it the implicit suggestion that we find some ground for compromise. I love to compromise, but as Aristotle said, any virtue carried to an extreme is a vice.

I have to question whether or not compromise is possible for the simple reason that you can't compromise with demography. You can't order numbers to stop being what they are and saying what they say about the composition of this country in the years to come. The only thing you can do is to seize the levers of power and change the rules of the game to blunt and delay the coming of the tide. That's what Trump supporters wanted, and that's what Trump did his best to do. It's great to think that 'understanding' can fix things, but I have a simple question.

When's the last time you heard any Trump supporter talking about the need to understand me, or the demographic groups I represent? When Barack Obama was elected with an unprecedented number of popular votes and flipping solid red states? When he was re-elected, which prompted an autopsy that was ignored? How about when BLM was born, when communities of color said 'hey it's kind of not cool that we're being murdered by police officers with no consequences or accountability?' When Joe Biden won more votes than literally any person in the history of American elections? How about when an African American and a Jewish man won both Senate seats from Georgia, both of them being the first of either group to hold Senate sears from Georgia...oh, and Georgia? It also went blue for the first time in literal decades?

You haven't...those calls have been rare or nonexistent, and that ought to tell you something.

That is a very wide sweeping assumption about people who voted a certain way if I ever heard one, but ok 

To support Dallas's point, remember how much Trumpism has in common with the structure of a cult. We can't reach the self serving opportunists or the genuine bigots, the ones who know his empire is built on lies or just don't care. But many of those seventy million supporters are cultists,  brainwashed into loyalty and taught to self isolate from information sources that contradict it. They might still be salvaged if we don't double down on the ostracization from outside.

I would like to point out Gylph, that while it is true that you can say that 'Trumpism' has a lot in common with the structure of a cult. The use the words 'salvage' when talking about fellow humans is a bit of a scary viewpoint, on top of the fact that it is kind of hard to open any dialogue with someone if you are going to label them a 'cultist' just because of what candidate they voted for.

[Fox Lokison]

I would like to point out Gylph, that while it is true that you can say that 'Trumpism' has a lot in common with the structure of a cult. The use the words 'salvage' when talking about fellow humans is a bit of a scary viewpoint, on top of the fact that it is kind of hard to open any dialogue with someone if you are going to label them a 'cultist' just because of what candidate they voted for.

Vast difference between voting for someone once, and voting for them again after 4 years of destruction. At that point you're just admitting your comfort and desires matter more than the lives of those around you. There's a conspiracy theory movement that's gaining maddening traction almost overnight, and running full tilt into turning the innocent voters who probably aren't royal assholes, into foot soldiers or shields for what may well be a civil war. It's coming down to "are you going to stop these people, or are you going to do nothing... or worse, help them?"

Frankly, standing idle is a choice. The choice to enable the really bad folks out there. Not to waffle on moral responsibility to step up, but literally, if you refuse to stand up and stop something, you are enabling it in some way, intentional or not. What's the difference between the leader and the follower? Who is more dangerous? The guy who pushed the evil shit? Or the guys who said "we can tolerate this" and did nothing when others got hurt?

[TheGlyphstone]

I would like to point out Gylph, that while it is true that you can say that 'Trumpism' has a lot in common with the structure of a cult. The use the words 'salvage' when talking about fellow humans is a bit of a scary viewpoint, on top of the fact that it is kind of hard to open any dialogue with someone if you are going to label them a 'cultist' just because of what candidate they voted for.

That's distorting my point into the exact opposite of what I'm arguing, seemingly out of needless contrarianism really. And frankly I'm not sure if laying out the specifics is worthwhile if you're going to lash out at me for being sympathetic towards the people Trump has manipulated into being his devoted followers without merit.

Vast difference between voting for someone once, and voting for them again after 4 years of destruction. At that point you're just admitting your comfort and desires matter more than the lives of those around you. There's a conspiracy theory movement that's gaining maddening traction almost overnight, and running full tilt into turning the innocent voters who probably aren't royal assholes, into foot soldiers or shields for what may well be a civil war. It's coming down to "are you going to stop these people, or are you going to do nothing... or worse, help them?"

Frankly, standing idle is a choice. The choice to enable the really bad folks out there. Not to waffle on moral responsibility to step up, but literally, if you refuse to stand up and stop something, you are enabling it in some way, intentional or not. What's the difference between the leader and the follower? Who is more dangerous? The guy who pushed the evil shit? Or the guys who said "we can tolerate this" and did nothing when others got hurt?

This.

[Regina Minx]

That is a very wide sweeping assumption about people who voted a certain way if I ever heard one, but ok 

I’m not sure what this has added to the conversation, especially since you don’t actually identify in what way I’m wrong other than to say (and I’ll be charitable here) I’m being overly broad. If you would like to elaborate with all the nuance you think I’m overlooking please feel free.

[Fox Lokison]

Lemme just add, I am a former alt-righter. Probably the reason I'm so damn heated about outing their hate groups and keeping track of them, tbh. Being in that group taught me their tactics. Their tactics ARE to use the masses as a shield. Your average person doesn't give a FUCK about fascism or socialism, they care about their immediate needs and community. They're not interested in the grand scheme, they just want the guy who will help them the most in office. They're also the easiest people to rile up and use. It was literally a tactic to use the layman against antifascists. Because your average person knows fascism from WWII, and as far as they're concerned, you're just calling any Republican a fascist. If they don't know the nuance of what fascism is, or see what's happening behind the scenes, to them, you're a screeching lunatic.

THAT is an easy group to convince that they're under attack.

When we say deprogramming or salvaging, we're talking in those terms for a reason. People are being deliberately used for a fascist, white supremacist, authoritarian agenda. As conspiracy-theory worthy as that sounds for me to say. But that was the point. For years, they've been hiding in the shadows, using this strategy of "what? Fascists? Where? We're just upstanding citizens concerned about our values, what's fascist about that?". That was a deliberate strategy that allowed them to accumulate power, get people in office, and shift things politically in their favor, until asking for socialized healthcare is akin to asking for a nuke to be dropped on Manhattan.

That was the plan. Because a mob is easy to make complicit in this shit. You are dealing with a group of people who are trying to help themselves, their families, and their communities. They are not bad people. But slowly and steadily, they have been fed lie after lie, designed to radicalize them, or at least get them to the point where THEY turn on your enemies, and you get to sit back doing your nasty little shit without too much interference. If you wanna help that group who's been lied to and convinced of something untrue, you HAVE to deprogram, because they were programmed in the first place. With lack of proper education, with systemic poverty, with lack of healthcare, with shitty wages, with crushing, soulless labor... And they never got the chance to learn the skills that would help them recognize how they're being duped.

Seriously, to avoid me rambling on it, I encourage anyone curious to look into how GUTTED the American public education system has become, and what that's done to the average citizen. Uneducated people don't do much dissenting and don't try to make things better, lemme tell ya. Nor do the poor, the struggling, those fighting for scraps. They're just trying to get by, while some asshole with all the privilege and money gets to sit there shilling the same old lie that you don't get a decent wage because black people or immigrants or Democrats exist, and you should go off and fight them

[Andol]

Lemme just add, I am a former alt-righter. Probably the reason I'm so damn heated about outing their hate groups and keeping track of them, tbh. Being in that group taught me their tactics. Their tactics ARE to use the masses as a shield. Your average person doesn't give a FUCK about fascism or socialism, they care about their immediate needs and community. They're not interested in the grand scheme, they just want the guy who will help them the most in office. They're also the easiest people to rile up and use. It was literally a tactic to use the layman against antifascists. Because your average person knows fascism from WWII, and as far as they're concerned, you're just calling any Republican a fascist. If they don't know the nuance of what fascism is, or see what's happening behind the scenes, to them, you're a screeching lunatic.

THAT is an easy group to convince that they're under attack.

When we say deprogramming or salvaging, we're talking in those terms for a reason. People are being deliberately used for a fascist, white supremacist, authoritarian agenda. As conspiracy-theory worthy as that sounds for me to say. But that was the point. For years, they've been hiding in the shadows, using this strategy of "what? Fascists? Where? We're just upstanding citizens concerned about our values, what's fascist about that?". That was a deliberate strategy that allowed them to accumulate power, get people in office, and shift things politically in their favor, until asking for socialized healthcare is akin to asking for a nuke to be dropped on Manhattan.

That was the plan. Because a mob is easy to make complicit in this shit. You are dealing with a group of people who are trying to help themselves, their families, and their communities. They are not bad people. But slowly and steadily, they have been fed lie after lie, designed to radicalize them, or at least get them to the point where THEY turn on your enemies, and you get to sit back doing your nasty little shit without too much interference. If you wanna help that group who's been lied to and convinced of something untrue, you HAVE to deprogram, because they were programmed in the first place. With lack of proper education, with systemic poverty, with lack of healthcare, with shitty wages, with crushing, soulless labor... And they never got the chance to learn the skills that would help them recognize how they're being duped.

Seriously, to avoid me rambling on it, I encourage anyone curious to look into how GUTTED the American public education system has become, and what that's done to the average citizen. Uneducated people don't do much dissenting and don't try to make things better, lemme tell ya. Nor do the poor, the struggling, those fighting for scraps. They're just trying to get by, while some asshole with all the privilege and money gets to sit there shilling the same old lie that you don't get a decent wage because black people or immigrants or Democrats exist, and you should go off and fight them

Alright I think I understand it a bit more now. It was just that the way it came across before felt a little dehumanizing. As in... reeking of.. we are going to send you to the camp to reprogram type of stuff. Yeah I get that is not what was meant, but such terms just normally set off big red flags for me especially when spoken of about a large population group.

If I talked about why a lot of us who I know did vote for him a second time did, it would only prove your first paragraph right, which I can see why you make that point so I will spare it. Myself and most of the people I know who voted for him a second time fall into the masses category in that we had our own reasons and felt that having him in again would help our immediate needs and community.

It's coming down to "are you going to stop these people, or are you going to do nothing... or worse, help them?"

Frankly, standing idle is a choice. The choice to enable the really bad folks out there. Not to waffle on moral responsibility to step up, but literally, if you refuse to stand up and stop something, you are enabling it in some way, intentional or not. What's the difference between the leader and the follower? Who is more dangerous? The guy who pushed the evil shit? Or the guys who said "we can tolerate this" and did nothing when others got hurt?

Your right on that. It is a choice, but your enabling argument falls flat when you try to claim that both sides are completely clean in this situation. Am I going to choose one asshole, or someone else who is just as bad, but different reasons. Standing idle in my mind is the choice that at least says I am not helping that certain guy, because to help the other goes in the face of my moral values... in the end just leaving me to say... I wash my hands of this fight.

I mean politically I have started to view things more and more in a way that says "Ok you can call me an enabler by not voting" I am just done. I don't know how to explain it to be honest Fox it is just a confusing subject. Doing my best 

[Andol]

I’m not sure what this has added to the conversation, especially since you don’t actually identify in what way I’m wrong other than to say (and I’ll be charitable here) I’m being overly broad. If you would like to elaborate with all the nuance you think I’m overlooking please feel free.

Your right Regina it didn't add anything and I am truly sorry for what was a childish knee jerk reaction to your post.

[Fox Lokison]

Your right on that. It is a choice, but your enabling argument falls flat when you try to claim that both sides are completely clean in this situation. Am I going to choose one asshole, or someone else who is just as bad, but different reasons. Standing idle in my mind is the choice that at least says I am not helping that certain guy, because to help the other goes in the face of my moral values... in the end just leaving me to say... I wash my hands of this fight.

I mean politically I have started to view things more and more in a way that says "Ok you can call me an enabler by not voting" I am just done. I don't know how to explain it to be honest Fox it is just a confusing subject. Doing my best 

I get it. But... You are always enabling something. For example, just by being an American and continuing to participate in America, you're enabling American imperialism overseas. The thing about enabling isn't that there's no way to ever do it. You are always going to be enabling something or someone you don't agree with. That's just what happens when you live with other people in a society. You have to pick and choose what you can stop. Like I said in the free speech thread, I believe, unilaterally, in the freedom to speak, and to share information freely online. I haven't relinquished those beliefs. But, I also had to acknowledge that in doing so, I enabled harm to people. That, for me, is the line. What are you willing to allow?

But washing your hands of it, you're allowing it to continue. Look, none of us really want to give this many fucks about politics. We want our country to run smoothly and our needs tended to, and perhaps the needs of others around the globe. But the average person just wants themselves and their community to be okay. They don't wanna get involved in all this. I don't begrudge people that, but to convert a famous saying; you might not care about politics, but politics cares about you.

We don't get to choose the times we live in, or the circumstances we're handed, but we do get to choose if we're going to make the best of them or not. It's not fair, it's not right, and it's fucking awful, but we are where we are. Personally, I believe in rolling up my sleeves and getting to work, sloughing through the shit so maybe the next generation can have it a bit better than we do now. And to me, that means getting educated, learning about what I can do to better things, and doing the very uncomfortable work of confronting myself, my biases, and what I'm willing to allow for my own peace of mind.

There's not really "good" choices these days. Just better ones. But that's just my thoughts on it.

[Andol]

I get it. But... You are always enabling something. For example, just by being an American and continuing to participate in America, you're enabling American imperialism overseas. The thing about enabling isn't that there's no way to ever do it. You are always going to be enabling something or someone you don't agree with. That's just what happens when you live with other people in a society. You have to pick and choose what you can stop. Like I said in the free speech thread, I believe, unilaterally, in the freedom to speak, and to share information freely online. I haven't relinquished those beliefs. But, I also had to acknowledge that in doing so, I enabled harm to people. That, for me, is the line. What are you willing to allow?

But washing your hands of it, you're allowing it to continue. Look, none of us really want to give this many fucks about politics. We want our country to run smoothly and our needs tended to, and perhaps the needs of others around the globe. But the average person just wants themselves and their community to be okay. They don't wanna get involved in all this. I don't begrudge people that, but to convert a famous saying; you might not care about politics, but politics cares about you.

We don't get to choose the times we live in, or the circumstances we're handed, but we do get to choose if we're going to make the best of them or not. It's not fair, it's not right, and it's fucking awful, but we are where we are. Personally, I believe in rolling up my sleeves and getting to work, sloughing through the shit so maybe the next generation can have it a bit better than we do now. And to me, that means getting educated, learning about what I can do to better things, and doing the very uncomfortable work of confronting myself, my biases, and what I'm willing to allow for my own peace of mind.

There's not really "good" choices these days. Just better ones. But that's just my thoughts on it.

Yeah I think I get what you mean, about as even handed a take on it as I have ever seen. I guess a lot of it just has to do with having a very very small face to face community on my end so it is hard sometimes to forget to not see life just through either the lens of home or the DnD group at the local game store. Which I think you said better than I could have in your second paragraph. 

The end of your first paragraph confused me a bit though. I am not sure if I understand what you mean by

"I haven't relinquished those beliefs. But, I also had to acknowledge that in doing so, I enabled harm to people. That, for me, is the line."

How does one not relinquish beliefs if they know they harmed people? I don't mean to sound like I am picking something out of context if that is what I did... I am just trying to understand how one does this. I don't know... something about this confused me, but I am not sure what... 

[Fox Lokison]

For the same reason someone who supports Republican values but rejects the Republican party does. My values haven't changed, but what I do with them does. My belief is that people should have the right to say whatever they desire, even if it's hateful. It's their freedom of speech - and also, I want them to say their shitty beliefs so they can face consequences for pushing them, but that aside... I still hold this belief. But I don't support harmful free speech movements anymore. Holding a belief is different than acting on it. My sentence could have been phrased a little better, but what it means is - I know that some of the beliefs I hold, the values I uphold, and the rights I think people deserve, are used to harm people. So I've had to hold myself accountable on that. If I want to support freedom of speech, I can do so without enabling white supremacists to get bigger platforms and spread their views. I can support internet freedoms without giving fascists more room to organize online.

Belief doesn't have to equal action. My parents and their church have a big grey area on trans people. I am a trans person. Their belief does not directly translate to their action. They can have the belief that God made me one way, and God doesn't make mistakes, but also respect me, my identity, and support my journey as a trans person. Those seem like two very contrary things, but they're easy enough when you realize belief is personal, internal. What you DO with it is what matters.

[Andol]

For the same reason someone who supports Republican values but rejects the Republican party does. My values haven't changed, but what I do with them does. My belief is that people should have the right to say whatever they desire, even if it's hateful. It's their freedom of speech - and also, I want them to say their shitty beliefs so they can face consequences for pushing them, but that aside... I still hold this belief. But I don't support harmful free speech movements anymore. Holding a belief is different than acting on it. My sentence could have been phrased a little better, but what it means is - I know that some of the beliefs I hold, the values I uphold, and the rights I think people deserve, are used to harm people. So I've had to hold myself accountable on that. If I want to support freedom of speech, I can do so without enabling white supremacists to get bigger platforms and spread their views. I can support internet freedoms without giving fascists more room to organize online.

Belief doesn't have to equal action. My parents and their church have a big grey area on trans people. I am a trans person. Their belief does not directly translate to their action. They can have the belief that God made me one way, and God doesn't make mistakes, but also respect me, my identity, and support my journey as a trans person. Those seem like two very contrary things, but they're easy enough when you realize belief is personal, internal. What you DO with it is what matters.

That actually cleared a lot of things up and gave me food for thoughts... or got the gears turning... thanks Fox.

[Twisted Crow]

This is what I was going to say earlier when I had time to share my experiences and developing ‘take’ on what it means to understand and walk to the table at the middle of the room.

The thing is, I make a mental separation between Trump voters and Trump supporters as wholesale descriptors. ‘Supporter’ is a word I hear tossed around a lot and I have found it to be too contextually blurred for my liking. In my experience? It is true that a supporter is one that also (most likely) voted for him, yet one that voted Trump is not necessarily a ‘supporter’. There are many socially regressive dangers in painting everything in the house with this shade of red. For one, it fundamentally enables media like FOX News to exploit that very ignorance and attempt to draw in people that have been effectively cast out by said ignorance. They have been trying to appeal more to independents, bi-partisans, and the disenfranchised. Because the Left and its press are leaving that blind spot wide open and their vanity is becoming as a snake attempting to eat itself. So, from a certain point of view... the Soc-Left’s whole ‘Prison of Silence’ strategy has also been an indirect ‘supporter’ of Emperor Orange Julius in the same way that one shouldn’t try to link a fire hydrant to vats of gasoline. But anyway, that is all just my opinion. Getting back to my point on the matter — People.

The MAGA Circuit 500 people? Yeah, I’ll give many others that one. Many of these are hard and stubborn people to reach... or even talk to. But... not every Trump voter is on the fast track to becoming a Ku Klux Klan Wizard, therefore it would be wise for one to consider before pointing their fingers to shame them to silence and social isolation. In fact, I actually have yet to meet one like that even in my trashy Redneck neighborhood outside the outskirts of Houston. Not saying they don’t exist, but so far... Most of them? Just normal everyday people. Some of them are assholes. Sure. Others? Surprisingly generous souls. Some personal examples of mine...

My late Grandmother voted for Trump when she was alive, one of the chief reasons? She was disgusted with what she saw was hypocrisy in Hillary Clinton and felt that she didn’t have our family’s best interests at heart, among other reasons. She didn’t so much vote for Trump as she did vote against Hillary Clinton. And I feel that this is one important distinction to make before muddying the language between ‘voter’ and ‘supporter’ and recklessly using such labels interchangeably. It simply lacks precision for me if I am to be in a serious conversation about what I find to be the problem.

But Gran had both myself and a kind African-American woman as her caregivers during her final years. In a way, this lady later became a part of our family. My grandmother absolutely loved her. And this lady was really fond of what kind of woman my Gran was. This lady wasn’t just professional, I could tell that she genuinely cared for Gran. Even my father later took notice at how she treated my Gran (his own mother) and was humbled. Unfortunately, Gran passed before he could ever take a lesson to learn from that.  But maybe it was enough to sow a seed of doubt to blossom later. Who knows?

With the news on, Politics would sometimes drum up in conversation. Gran wouldn’t defend many of the things that Orange Julius would be found responsible for. The funny thing is, the lady caregiver was something of a purple like myself. In my talks with her, she felt that there were some issues that we have been having that have led up to Orange Julius. Similar to Andrew Yang’s point in the past about Trump being a ‘symptom of the true problem’... we both saw a gnarled, dead tree that just needed to be cut down and replanted. And we saw a populace that was focused more on one or two limbs of that tree, but wanted to leave the rest of the dead, rotting tree where it was.

Prior to the Mortal Kombat Kosplay Virus hitting us, I have engaged many over these past four years about this President whenever the topic came up. Friends, neighbors, the occasional random dude on the street, people on the internet, even some people at my local plasma center. These four years have really affirmed what I was earlier speculating for eight years under Obama Administration:

Those that vote under the right wing are far more diverse than many might seem to think. I have been directly exposed to this spectrum for 12 years now.

In the middle of Obama Administration, I used to work in the Petrochemical industry. It is predominantly a ‘Good Ol Boy’ industry. Lots of red neck types. Many of them weren’t big fans of Barrack Obama. Most of them I’d say weren’t, actually. And you want to know what I discovered in my time there?

Bill over at Operations? Old White guy. Republican voter. Confederate (as in, General Lee) flag tattoo that could be seen sometimes just below his neckline (whenever he wasn’t wearing his FRCs). Bill also happened to support gay marriage. If memory serves, this was because one of his sons was gay. He also got on really well with this old black male Operator that shared the same control room. I don’t mean like ‘tolerate one another’, I mean like… they would be bonding like best friends whenever I’d roll up in there to wait for them to write me a permit.

Angela over at Scaffolding? Young Latina. Republican voter. Pro-Choice. Was apparently really into this other supposed oblivious guy that worked in the plant as a contractor (like I was). She would pine for my advice on getting this guys attention, thus crushing my hopes of me ever asking her out. But it is what it is. Heh. Plenty of fish and all that. Anyway...

Annie over by Safety? Middle-aged white woman with the ‘Karen’ haircut. Republican voter. Ex-Military (Navy, I think), Outspoken Lesbian. Pro-Choice (which I always found pretty damn funny, but still noble to support), Pro Gay Marriage (duh). Was often warm to me because I was Ex-Army and cared a lot about proper procedure. Treating her with respect and talking to her like an equal was also probably a good change of pace, too. Lot of other people thought she was kind of a crabass, but I never had any problems with her.

Nate in Engineering? Young African American. Republican (swing?) voter. Believed in defunding police. Has complained about some of the media’s unchecked influence. Agreed with Obama on some counts, but in the end he voted for Romney. Had complained to me once about him occasionally being called an Uncle Tom. Didn’t quite fit the stereotypical ‘black’ monolithic mold. He was an Engineer, so he was mostly quite articulate and generally easy for me to be around when he wasn’t riding that brain train.

Talking and connecting with all of these people and many more all those years really busted out the common stereotypes and paradigms I once had about the right wing. And talking to a lot of them now (prior to having to be antisocial and walk around in Street Shinobi gear) there isn’t that much of a radical difference in their given dynamic beyond the culture of fear that had been cultivated prior to Trump. And a recurring trend on asking them why they voted Republican back then revealed some recurring answers that I still hear today... and they turned out to have rather amazing differences between each other.

If memory serves, a reason that Bill voted against Obama was out of fear of Plant economic reasons that I can’t quite remember the specifics of. Angela voted against Obama (even though she wasn’t sold on Romney) because she was afraid of a race war... or something. Annie? I can’t quite remember what her reason was, exactly. Nate, I would later find out, was strongly opposed to some specifics involving the Affordable Care Act.

But my point is that the trends I noticed then from observation remained quite similar to the trends I later noticed in 2016.

More people seemed to talk about voting against as opposed to for something or someone. When my Gran voted for Trump, it was more due more to a distance from Hilary Clinton than it was for finding anything to like about Donald Trump. Dad and Pop voted for a similar reason, back then. While my father and grandfather were indoctrinated by the Reapers, my Gran questioned her decision in voting for Trump. On the past co-workers I had mentioned, I have to wonder just how these harrowing four years could have changed them. Even still...


People are as water
Water is without form.
Cast your pebble into the pond
You will see it ripple. 


Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[TheGlyphstone]

With a bit clearer head, Andol, I wasn't trying to attack you, or all Trump voters, when I talked about deprogramming the cult earlier. Much like Dallas just said above, there's a distinct line between voters and supporters. Or in this case, a voter and a cultist

A voter just hates the other side more, or identifies strongly with their party, or just believes - however much I think they might be wrong - that he will benefit them. But they're sensible and will transfer their loyalty down the line to another candidate in time.

A cultist idolizes him. They follow him on Twitter, plaster their front yard and/or vehicle with Trump 2020 posters and stickers, and hate anyone who doesn't love him too. They believe in QAnon, and are convinced that the election was fradulently stolen on no grounds more solid than he says it was, and their trust in him is simply that absolute. And ultimately, they convene in an angry mob and commit what is likely to go down in history as an act of domestic terrorism simply because he told them to. People's lives might end up ruined, and he won't so much as shed a single tear over what they did in his name. They are the people I consider cultists, and hope they can still be brought back into some semblance of sanity. Not for me or us, but for them. He doesn't deserve what they are giving, and never will.

[Twisted Crow]

Oh, to clear something up. I don’t mean to make light of COVID-19 in my last post. I am simply trying to use a bit of humor to filter some of my pain regarding the pandemic. So, I am sorry if any of that happened to upset anyone.