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Author Topic: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'  (Read 2209 times)

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Offline DallasTopic starter

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The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« on: March 04, 2017, 07:39:06 PM »
Quote from: Disclaimer
Note: These are my personal feelings that I just need to get off my chest and out of my head before they eat me alive. ::)

To be honest, this may have been better suited as a blog, but I wanted to be on the safe side (since it essentially covers Politics). Truth be told, I didn't really want this to end up in PROC but it seems like it's the only suitable place. Even though this seems to deal with general woes about it than the problems themselves.

So, FYI: This pertains to the feeling of lacking a place in 'the political world' in general, not so much on political/controversial issues themselves. They can be used to help illustrate your point on why it makes you feel conflicted, but do not use this as a place to just "splurge" as we have other topics here for that.

Also... examples and stories from here are not meant to explicitly target or generalize those with any/all Right or Left viewpoints, but more so how I (possibly we) may feel from the extreme 'cavalier-ism' regarding said viewpoints.



The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'






Fiscal Conservative + Social Liberal (+ Unlucky Geography) = Conflict.

Conflict among ones neighbor. Conflict with those that one cares about with varying self interests.

It eventually equals conflict within ones self.
 

That is essentially my day-to-day life on the political spectrum. Instead of the 'bliss' that seems to come with full blown political parties just having the one 'other' major opposition (At least, this is the way I have simplified it for myself to preserve some sanity. It is very possible that it is much more complicated than this). I also feel that I clash with other 'Purples' as well, given the nature of how "unofficial" our political creeds may be on the representative side of things. I feel that people like me do not have an adequate 'voice' in politics. Consequently, it feels like I have damn near everyone and their grandma in opposition when I look at the two ends of the scale. Republican supporters have branded me 'weak', 'cowardly' or 'an overly sensitive pansy'. There have been democrats that have stated that I was 'emotionless', 'cruel', 'detached', 'insensitive', etc. Not even going to get into the somewhat amusing irony of how contradicting the two extreme points of view seem to be with me. What's more, I don't really feel like getting into how some of both can be true in a way (At least, not in this initial post. Maybe in another one later, if it comes up).

Aside from such a wide stark contrast in those two sets of labels, what I see from my perspective is two (supposedly) different extremes so desperate and dependent upon one series of political views. In the heat of their passion (right or wrong) they can still bear the same bite, the same venom and possibly same disregard for what makes me human. Do I find these moments painful? Sure, although sometimes it is amusing in a twisted sort of way. Both the pragmatist devil and the romantic angel over my shoulders can't really seem to agree on whether or not this is funny or tragic. It's like I am a half-elf in a fantasy world, bastardized by both "pure" races that simply deny me a right to voice. It is one of the reasons I don't normally care to go 'off into the weeds' with the nasty world of US Politics. Seems to me like we get so caught up with emotion, tradition and novelty that it's all too easy to just forget about reason altogether. Maybe it is just easier to keep drinking the poison, instead. Maybe it just makes us feel better to cast blame on someone, just even for a moment. Even if they themselves might not deserve it.

Now, to explain...

I was originally aiming to put this somewhere else on Elliquiy. The thing is, I don't want this to be another 'PROC Arena' or pseudo "social media feed on today's news". We have topics like that already that serve these purposes. This was meant to be more of a vent for me and possible civil discussion with others related, sharing, empathy, introspective attempts to understand, etc.. So by all means, discuss if you want to discuss. I just do not want this to be another host for minor squabbles on issues that can't seem to be resolved through 'reactive ridicule from fits of emotion' or 'Info Wars! Episode VII: Orange Julius Caesar Awakens'. Seriously... I will say this once more: We have plenty of topics in PROC for that. The purpose of this topic for me (and maybe others) is a general attempt to relate. To speak on my own intentions: I simply want to know how (un)alone I might be in relation to others that could be in this same boat. Just as well; this can be open for others that feel "purple" politically, as well (as opposed to straight blue or red).

On myself? I live in Texas. According to an ignorance-favored sort of narrative, we're 'apparently' supposed to be a bunch of gun-lovin', racist bible-thumpers that 'hate the gays and transgenders' and preach how 'abortions are murder'... blah blah blah. ::) Now, that's not to say that we don't have people here (in Texas) that are like that. Unfortunately, we do. But even some of the most 'country-fied' redneck people I've met around these parts have surprised me in political viewpoints. Doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with them on said viewpoints, but they give me pause to consider. Turns out, we aren't quite as 'rigid' as we are often 'type-casted' to be.

Did you know that over 3.3~ million Texas voters voted Democrat back in 2012? This was against the 4.5~ million that voted Republican (Romney) that year. If this vote were any accurate scale to represent a majority voice, it could mean roughly 42%~ of us actually wanted Obama (or somebody else besides Romney) that year. Now, I'm not going to get into my "Value of Voting" lecture here. And I'm not going to wander off into my whole diatribe on how statistics can be easily misrepresented. All I am saying is that this was enough to make me wonder about things. But to my original point, in this 'winner-take-all' system, it seems all too often to me that we appear 'painted' a uniform color (socially, as well as politically) based on illusions of 'popular belief' and approval. Curiously, I was also surprised to see how many Californians voted Republican that same year. It made me think that the popular vote could be kind of important to me for an entirely different reason. You may get an idea that, in spite of whom eventually 'won' the State; it was not necessarily as 'unanimous' amongst the people as one might be lead to believe.

So, in conclusion... maybe I'm not the only Purple out there. Maybe I'm not the only Purple on Elliquiy.

But it doesn't change that feeling of loneliness in the political world to me. A cornucopia of individual political views that don't seem to 'fit right' in any party. I can't even seem to find a third party that adequately represents/looks after my interests. I mean, people tell me I'm a 'Libertarian' but... it feels like there are a bazillion different kinds of Libertarians to a point where that concept seems blurry to me.

Your thoughts on me (or my problem), or your personal experiences, thoughts and/or feelings on being 'Purple', anything like that are considered welcome contributions to this. This is meant to be a thread of discussion, relation, understanding, compassion and/or civility. This thread is not your political battlefield or arena. While opinions are welcome, I encourage any participants to honor my request for myself (and any other that may share). If, for some reason, one forgets this (even if it is myself)... a polite reminder should suffice. Really, though... this is meant to be less about debating individual issues and more regarding to the "Purple stigma" feeling itself. Now, that's not to say we can't use issues as an example:

A very simple example of what is acceptable (unless Elliquiy Staff sees differently)

'Donald Trump is our new President of the United States'

Fiscal Conservative Dallas: "Whew, unexpected... but we'll see how this goes. He could be great for our economy or disastrous."
Social Liberal Dallas: "Oh my god, Donald Trump is our next President of the United States. What have we done?"


But not if they have no productive purpose in getting the point across...

An example of derailing crap that I don't want to see in this topic

'Donald Trump is our new President of the United States'

Fake Viewpoint #1 to Set Up Troll Joke: "We are doomed"
Fake Viewpoint #2 to Set Up Troll Joke: "We are doomed"

I hope the purpose for this topic is understood and respected.

Thanks for, at least, giving this a read.  :-)

~Dall
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 09:02:27 PM by Dallas »

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2017, 11:47:04 AM »
Fiscal conservative, social liberal sums up my general position pretty well too. Admittedly if I'm forced to choose between them, I'll generally lean in favor of spending what's necessary, but otherwise "politically purple" fits pretty well. So no, you're not alone here.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 03:13:56 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline RedRose

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2017, 02:25:15 PM »
Quote
Republican supporters have branded me 'weak', 'cowardly' or 'an overly sensitive pansy'. There have been democrats that have stated that I was 'emotionless', 'cruel', 'detached', 'insensitive', etc.
It's like I am a half-elf in a fantasy world, bastardized by both "pure" races that simply deny me a right to voice. It is one of the reasons I don't normally care to go 'off into the weeds' with the nasty world of US Politics.


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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2017, 02:32:47 PM »

Offline Sofia Grace

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2017, 07:25:08 PM »
This is why we get along well.   :-)

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Online LostInTheMist

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2017, 10:52:06 PM »
I doubt you'll find many social conservatives on Elliquiy. Our application questions tend to make it clear that this is not exactly "their" kind of place if they're socially conservative at least on the issue of gender, gay, transexual rights, and similar issues.

I consider myself a fiscal leftist. Some might call it a liberal, but I don't know. What I, personally, mean by this is that:

• I don't believe in free market economics. In fact, I believe in almost the opposite. The government, I believe, is more efficient than the free market in most endeavors (and there are many statistics out there to support this belief), and will attempt to set a price that is as low as possible and thus obtainable for most people.

• I don't believe that big government is evil, nor do I see it necessarily as a negative. This is not to say that I think everyone and their grandmothers should have government jobs. I don't mind a big government, so long as it's not a bloated government.

• I support the nationalization of health insurance, shipping and banking, to name a few. I shouldn't have to go to a private bank (half a step better than a loan shark) to fund my education.

• I support a high minimum wage for working-class Americans (at the very least a living wage).

• I believe every American should have the opportunity to go to college, and if they can't afford it, the government should pay for it.

• I'm willing to pay (lots of) extra taxes to support these ideas.

I'm just wondering where a fiscal conservative stands on such issues? Not looking to debate the merits of the bullet points up there, just looking to see whether I'm really a fiscal liberal (a term I've never used for myself), or whether I'm talking at cross purposes.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 10:54:10 PM by LostInTheMist »

Offline Vekseid

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2017, 02:29:47 AM »
There are a few, though E tends to soften such people unless they go out of their way to harass other members. Others decide that they don't want to be on such a 'sinful' site any longer or whatever.



What gets me is how people use fiscal conservatism as a justification for voting Republican.

Republicans voted to add ten trillion to the debt with next to no fanfare, the moment Obama was out of office.

How does a fiscally conservative person square this sort of attitude - deficits only matter with a Democrat in the White House - with being Republican?

Offline Tamhansen

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2017, 03:29:38 AM »
As an outsider, having spent a lot of time in the US, but still an outsider, it amazes me how the country as a whole seems to have this whole 'black and white' mentality. A country of extremes where it's either for or against, right or wrong, Elephant or Donkey, with absolutely no possibility of a middle ground.

I was raised in a country that is the exact opposite. Everything is middle ground and compromise. Sometimes our country swings to the left or the right, but on average, we're usually smack dab in the middle.

In the Netherlands there are many political parties, each with their own ideals running from a very socialist statist party to a very european right wing. Of course some of the parties up for election are 'crazy/joke' parties. Just like the US had that tiger guy, or Gary Johnson. But overall there are roughly 12 serious parties in contention. And because the votes are spread between them government tends to be a compromise. Not a stalemate like the Obama administration was, where nothing got done because everyone was fighting each other, but a compromise where everyone gets something.

Now I'm not saying the US needs twelve parties, but what it does seem to need is a party of the middle ground. A party that understands that spending on social issues is a neccesity, but that it does need to be done with care.

The problem I have with those calling themselves 'Fiscally conservative' and I mainly mean the politicians who do is that they focus this behaviour solely on small programmes that hardly make a dent on the budget, or on the tax pressure. Which by the way, despite President Cheeto's claim, is lower in the US than nearly anywhere in the developed world. Especially the white middle class that is always complaining about their taxes, pay less than their counterparts anywhere in Europe for example.

If the fiscally conservative truly wanted to relieve the tax burden on people, they'd start slashing programmes that weigh heavy on the budget. Military spending, Medicaid/medicare and pension spending. All things the Obama administration was trying to do. (So maybe they're the actual fiscal conservatives, not the republicans who cut programmes like food stamps. Less than a tenth of a procent of the budget, the EPA, less than one procent and so on.)

Another way to relieve tax burdens on citizens is making companies, especially large companies pay their fair share. But instead, the Oompa loompa administration is cutting taxes for multinationals and also cutting inheritance tax. Something only the richest 4 percent of Americans even ever come into contact with. And by doing this, the tax burden on the average working person will only become more, not less.

Online LostInTheMist

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2017, 05:54:00 AM »
As an outsider, having spent a lot of time in the US, but still an outsider, it amazes me how the country as a whole seems to have this whole 'black and white' mentality. A country of extremes where it's either for or against, right or wrong, Elephant or Donkey, with absolutely no possibility of a middle ground.

I was raised in a country that is the exact opposite. Everything is middle ground and compromise. Sometimes our country swings to the left or the right, but on average, we're usually smack dab in the middle.

In the Netherlands there are many political parties, each with their own ideals running from a very socialist statist party to a very european right wing. Of course some of the parties up for election are 'crazy/joke' parties. Just like the US had that tiger guy, or Gary Johnson. But overall there are roughly 12 serious parties in contention. And because the votes are spread between them government tends to be a compromise. Not a stalemate like the Obama administration was, where nothing got done because everyone was fighting each other, but a compromise where everyone gets something.

Now I'm not saying the US needs twelve parties, but what it does seem to need is a party of the middle ground. A party that understands that spending on social issues is a neccesity, but that it does need to be done with care.

The problem I have with those calling themselves 'Fiscally conservative' and I mainly mean the politicians who do is that they focus this behaviour solely on small programmes that hardly make a dent on the budget, or on the tax pressure. Which by the way, despite President Cheeto's claim, is lower in the US than nearly anywhere in the developed world. Especially the white middle class that is always complaining about their taxes, pay less than their counterparts anywhere in Europe for example.

If the fiscally conservative truly wanted to relieve the tax burden on people, they'd start slashing programmes that weigh heavy on the budget. Military spending, Medicaid/medicare and pension spending. All things the Obama administration was trying to do. (So maybe they're the actual fiscal conservatives, not the republicans who cut programmes like food stamps. Less than a tenth of a procent of the budget, the EPA, less than one procent and so on.)

Another way to relieve tax burdens on citizens is making companies, especially large companies pay their fair share. But instead, the Oompa loompa administration is cutting taxes for multinationals and also cutting inheritance tax. Something only the richest 4 percent of Americans even ever come into contact with. And by doing this, the tax burden on the average working person will only become more, not less.

I more or less agree with everything you just said. However, with two major parties there are some major differences between members of the same party. For example, I'm way to the left of the majority of the Democratic party, more along the lines of Bernie Sanders (who is actually a third-party candidate; a Socialist, not a Democrat) than any of the Democratic leadership. Meanwhile there are Democrats elected from primarily red states who are more conservative than some Republicans from primarily blue states. (Or well, there used to be liberal Republicans, but not so much any more.)

That's the problem with our system. We have two parties, and that does create a red-and-blue system. I have to vote for the Democrats because they're the party that can actually WIN that most closely aligns itself with my beliefs....

I don't know. It sometimes depresses me. I've been seriously considering moving to the Netherlands or Scandinavia for a while now. I couldn't afford it right at the moment, but....

How do you guys feel about immigrants?

Offline RedRose

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2017, 07:37:33 AM »
Agreed.
I was raised not discussing topics that would cause fights. Most people didn't tell their friends or kids who they were going to vote for. There were certainly a few "militants", especially on the extremes, but most people just didn't really care if you were left or right wing (extremes, again, brought different reactions sometimes).

You wouldn't see a friendship falling apart, or resorting to insults, because Jean votes for socialists and Jacques for right wingers. That is, if they even knew what the other did. I have friends commies to extreme right wing. I don't care. My friend isn't suddenly another person when I discover who he votes for, and if I'm shocked I actually ask why and discuss it nicely. Family I hold even more sacred, and I know which topics to avoid with whom, and they do the same if they're smart, and we can have a family meal with left and right wingers, religious and not religious, without even touching on those topics except maybe a corny joke.

I've seen from afar how friendships of decades died due to American politics. You enjoyed the person for 40 years or something and now you suddenly can't anymore? I will never understand it.

Offline lillisa

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2017, 09:43:49 AM »
I more or less agree with everything you just said. However, with two major parties there are some major differences between members of the same party. For example, I'm way to the left of the majority of the Democratic party, more along the lines of Bernie Sanders (who is actually a third-party candidate; a Socialist, not a Democrat) than any of the Democratic leadership. Meanwhile there are Democrats elected from primarily red states who are more conservative than some Republicans from primarily blue states. (Or well, there used to be liberal Republicans, but not so much any more.)

That's the problem with our system. We have two parties, and that does create a red-and-blue system. I have to vote for the Democrats because they're the party that can actually WIN that most closely aligns itself with my beliefs....

I don't know. It sometimes depresses me. I've been seriously considering moving to the Netherlands or Scandinavia for a while now. I couldn't afford it right at the moment, but....

How do you guys feel about immigrants?

I would like to say that we are very welcoming to migrants, but lately there seems to be a backlash against non white immigrants. Other than that you're fine.

Offline Tamhansen

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2017, 10:16:52 AM »
I would like to say that we are very welcoming to migrants, but lately there seems to be a backlash against non white immigrants. Other than that you're fine.

This.

A lot of people in Europe are getting scared of non white migrants, especially north african muslims. And our government isn't helping. Either they vilify the immigrants or they coddle them.

Offline Noisekick

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 09:30:53 PM »
Fiscal conservative + social liberal sounds like Libertarian Party kind of stuff to me.

I am personally more fiscally center left and socially liberal with the exception of leaning pro-life in personal opinion while not really going to make any effort to stop people from getting abortions (they can get abortions if they want, however I would prefer people to give birth and then give these kids up for adoption while being compensated by the state to make the hospital stay, delivery and putting up for adoption virtually free) and pro 2nd amendment (and equivalents).

Also a big fan of coops. One of the biggest coops is Mondragon and their highest paid employee is only allowed to earn eight times that of the lowest paid employee aka if the lowest paid employee gets eight Euros an hour (1280 Euros a month/15,360 Euros annually), the CEO can get a maximum of 64 Euros an hour which corresponds to 10240 Euros a month or about 120,000 annually. However in most locations the executives only get five times that of a minimum wage worker. Plus coops are usually entirely worker owned and the equal share in profit provides incentive to be more productive.

However here in Europe with the migrants, at least in Germany, not too many people have a problem with the refugees. Germans are more concerned about Serbs and Libyans than about Syrians and Iraqis. I actually live two houses down from a refugee center and there haven't been any problems with them at all. I do not think it is so much about whether the immigrants and refugees are white or not. It is more the fear of where exactly they come from and how high crime statistics are. It is more likely people will have a problem with people coming from Algeria or Libya than if they were coming from the Levant like Syria, Lebanon or Jordan. Hungary is a different story (they don't like immigrants, period.).

Offline Retribution

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2017, 05:56:33 AM »
Should I wave a hand as one of Es nominal conservatives? LoL kidding of course. Actually I am a pretty right leaning guy, but if I had to put a label on myself these days it would be moderate independent with conservative tendencies. Just call me a gun loving redneck if you like, but I like to think I am tolerant.

You can also call me purple. I left president blank in the last election because I found both choices to be nauseating. And dam the political system has devolved into two sides, each is against whatever the other is for and vice versa. It is maddening, one can literally watch them switch sides and stances dependent on who is in the White House if you pay attention. I do not think any of them stand for anything except getting re-elected. And everything becomes combative.

We all have our sacred cows and I see few things brought up that do not have some merit if one looks deep enough. Some point or another. If there could just be some give and take and acknowledgement of concerns with a dose of meet in the middle we might not all get what we want. But we could live with it.

As a side note I have pretty much ceased watching news other than skimming headlines. It just all seems so silly to me this point. I feel I am not alone no matter the political view.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 05:59:43 AM by Retribution »

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2017, 08:36:08 PM »
The main issue with being politically purple these days is threefold.

The first is identity politics - if you belong to a certain group of people, you are expected to vote one way or another.  If you are an ethnic minority, or a woman, or some other group, you are expected to vote Democrat, otherwise you're seen as a 'race traitor' or someone with 'internalized misogyny,' or the like.  The only people who are allowed the freedom to vote Republican and not receive criticism for it are straight white men, and that's because of the rationalization that they're just trying to stay in power.  This kills diversity of political position because you are lumped in with your stated group.  You are not an individual with thoughts and beliefs, you are just another face in the crowd.

The second is demonization.  The other side are not people that you simply have a disagreement with - they are the enemy, they must be destroyed because they are the antithesis of all that is good and such.  The Newsroom talked about this in a little segment while it was on air, with Jeff Daniels listing off why he opposes the extreme right of the political spectrum, a list which he caps off by saying "but above all, I have to hate Democrats."  Those who do not share your political viewpoint cannot simply be people who made a rational decision to believe something.  The common denouncement of the left by the right is that they're just a bunch of decadent, lazy deviants who want all their stuff provided to them for free, and that they want to destroy the basis of American society; the denouncement of the right by the left is that they're a bunch of selfish, bigoted assholes who want to keep minorities down, women in the kitchen, and that they want to keep American society in the 1950s.

The last is the winner-take-all mentality of politics today.  America existed as a country for 80s years before it ran into its first real crisis - slavery, which caused the Civil War - but in those 80 years there were tons of deals and compromises struck in order to keep the peace with regards to the issue.  (The real problem came about when new deals and compromises started to break old ones that were already in place.)  Today, politics is take it or leave it; my way or the highway; no room for compromise.  To a certain degree, this is tied into the fact that the two political parties seem to have a fundamental disagreement about the direction of the country, and with the previous problem of demonization.

Remember death panels?  Death panels was a deliberate statement to quash negotiation on a national healthcare system, because you do not negotiate with the people who might be trying to kill your grandmother.  The debate over national healthcare is not a question of method - how do we accomplish this - but a question of priorities - should we accomplish this?  The Democrat answer was yes, we should; the Republican answer was no, we shouldn't.

For these reasons, I do actually worry that there will come a day where there is only a one party system in America, because one of the two will crash and burn and there won't be anyone to replace them.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2017, 08:57:05 PM »
The main issue with being politically purple these days is threefold.

The first is identity politics - if you belong to a certain group of people, you are expected to vote one way or another.  If you are an ethnic minority, or a woman, or some other group, you are expected to vote Democrat, otherwise you're seen as a 'race traitor' or someone with 'internalized misogyny,' or the like.  The only people who are allowed the freedom to vote Republican and not receive criticism for it are straight white men, and that's because of the rationalization that they're just trying to stay in power.  This kills diversity of political position because you are lumped in with your stated group.  You are not an individual with thoughts and beliefs, you are just another face in the crowd.

The second is demonization.  The other side are not people that you simply have a disagreement with - they are the enemy, they must be destroyed because they are the antithesis of all that is good and such.  The Newsroom talked about this in a little segment while it was on air, with Jeff Daniels listing off why he opposes the extreme right of the political spectrum, a list which he caps off by saying "but above all, I have to hate Democrats."  Those who do not share your political viewpoint cannot simply be people who made a rational decision to believe something.  The common denouncement of the left by the right is that they're just a bunch of decadent, lazy deviants who want all their stuff provided to them for free, and that they want to destroy the basis of American society; the denouncement of the right by the left is that they're a bunch of selfish, bigoted assholes who want to keep minorities down, women in the kitchen, and that they want to keep American society in the 1950s.

The last is the winner-take-all mentality of politics today.  America existed as a country for 80s years before it ran into its first real crisis - slavery, which caused the Civil War - but in those 80 years there were tons of deals and compromises struck in order to keep the peace with regards to the issue.  (The real problem came about when new deals and compromises started to break old ones that were already in place.)  Today, politics is take it or leave it; my way or the highway; no room for compromise.  To a certain degree, this is tied into the fact that the two political parties seem to have a fundamental disagreement about the direction of the country, and with the previous problem of demonization.

Remember death panels?  Death panels was a deliberate statement to quash negotiation on a national healthcare system, because you do not negotiate with the people who might be trying to kill your grandmother.  The debate over national healthcare is not a question of method - how do we accomplish this - but a question of priorities - should we accomplish this?  The Democrat answer was yes, we should; the Republican answer was no, we shouldn't.

For these reasons, I do actually worry that there will come a day where there is only a one party system in America, because one of the two will crash and burn and there won't be anyone to replace them.

There is so much truth to all of this its depressing. I bolded the last part because I think our best chance is if both parties crash and then reform....hopefully with maybe a third or fourth party coming along as well.

Offline Retribution

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2017, 11:49:33 AM »
Plus a million, I utterly agree all around.

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2017, 12:28:50 PM »
The funny thing is that you can be socially conservative and comfortable on E.  All you have to do is ignore the people who tell you that isn't possible.

There are many right-wing statements, positions and opinions I can understand even though I don't agree with them and over time I've learned that fighting them gets us nowhere.  Learning why people feel or think the way they do gives me the toehold I need to talk with them - with being the operative word here.  People who talk at me turn me off even (or especially) when I agree with them.  Talking at (or as some enlightened individuals call it talking to) someone tells us the person speaking isn't listening to us and therefore doesn't respect us.  A lack of respect on your part makes you irrelevant. 

I don't want to hear your opinion - even if I am in complete agreement with it - if you don't care about mine.

Why?  Because you are wrong to think that having an opinion makes you right.  In your mind the only opinion is yours and the only person is you.

I may be robin's egg blue with a splash of lavender but I'm willing to let you be any color you want as long as you pretty much keep it to yourself and don't try to change me.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 12:31:57 PM by Beguile's Mistress »

Offline PervertedBrother

Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2017, 07:39:11 AM »
There is no more right or left.  Both parties are simply populist now.  That is why I vote third party.  I have NEVER cast a vote for a major party candidate for president.  And I'm proud of that.

Obama bombed just as many countries as Bush (more.)  Bush spent just as much as Clinton (more.)  There isn't any difference anymore.

In modern phrasing, I guess the label that fits me best is libertarian, but I dislike the anarchist and left libertarian sects of that philosophy.  The people who don't really care about liberty, they just want their weed.  The Gary Johnson wing.

I like to refer to myself as a anti-federalist.  I believe that if at all possible government should have nothing to do with anything, and if there HAS to be government regulation or organization it should be at the state level.

Offline DallasTopic starter

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2017, 10:21:28 PM »
The term I like using is 'Anti-Establishment', but mostly just because I'm amused by how easily it frightens some people.  ^-^

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2017, 11:15:52 PM »
The term I like using is 'Anti-Establishment', but mostly just because I'm amused by how easily it frightens some people.  ^-^

It's all of my missed rebellion years rolled into one word!  ;D  (I managed to write both a history paper and a German paper about the record labeling hearings of 1985).

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2017, 11:25:45 PM »
Heh. A little bit of it is kind of a nod toward the 60s -- or at least, what I have read and gathered from that particular era in the US. It's not like I can remember it myself from experience. :-)

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2017, 07:25:17 PM »
The main issue with being politically purple these days is threefold.

The first is identity politics - if you belong to a certain group of people, you are expected to vote one way or another.  If you are an ethnic minority, or a woman, or some other group, you are expected to vote Democrat, otherwise you're seen as a 'race traitor' or someone with 'internalized misogyny,' or the like.  The only people who are allowed the freedom to vote Republican and not receive criticism for it are straight white men, and that's because of the rationalization that they're just trying to stay in power.  This kills diversity of political position because you are lumped in with your stated group.  You are not an individual with thoughts and beliefs, you are just another face in the crowd.

The second is demonization.  The other side are not people that you simply have a disagreement with - they are the enemy, they must be destroyed because they are the antithesis of all that is good and such.  The Newsroom talked about this in a little segment while it was on air, with Jeff Daniels listing off why he opposes the extreme right of the political spectrum, a list which he caps off by saying "but above all, I have to hate Democrats."  Those who do not share your political viewpoint cannot simply be people who made a rational decision to believe something.  The common denouncement of the left by the right is that they're just a bunch of decadent, lazy deviants who want all their stuff provided to them for free, and that they want to destroy the basis of American society; the denouncement of the right by the left is that they're a bunch of selfish, bigoted assholes who want to keep minorities down, women in the kitchen, and that they want to keep American society in the 1950s.

The last is the winner-take-all mentality of politics today.  America existed as a country for 80s years before it ran into its first real crisis - slavery, which caused the Civil War - but in those 80 years there were tons of deals and compromises struck in order to keep the peace with regards to the issue.  (The real problem came about when new deals and compromises started to break old ones that were already in place.)  Today, politics is take it or leave it; my way or the highway; no room for compromise.  To a certain degree, this is tied into the fact that the two political parties seem to have a fundamental disagreement about the direction of the country, and with the previous problem of demonization.

Remember death panels?  Death panels was a deliberate statement to quash negotiation on a national healthcare system, because you do not negotiate with the people who might be trying to kill your grandmother.  The debate over national healthcare is not a question of method - how do we accomplish this - but a question of priorities - should we accomplish this?  The Democrat answer was yes, we should; the Republican answer was no, we shouldn't.

For these reasons, I do actually worry that there will come a day where there is only a one party system in America, because one of the two will crash and burn and there won't be anyone to replace them.

Basically this. I'd like to think I'm a bit more moderate, but I definitely have a more conservative/Republican lean. I frankly don't care at all about someone's beliefs; you believe what you want, and I can't change your mind or stop you in doing what you want. That's the beauty of the United States and other Western democratic societies; you can believe what you want, and even if I hate it and I think it's idiotic, I can't do anything about that besides try and talk to you about it. Even then, I won't have a problem with it unless it pushes you to commit violence or you think it gives you the right to thumb your nose at people.

But as we all know by now; a peaceful political discussion almost always turns into a blatant argument, and those do nothing but make people angry and potentially turn violent. No one is blameless in the current political scene. Both sides have had their own faults and have done their own crazy and stupid things. We've regressed back to post-World War One Europe, where the right and the left fight each other in the streets in order to suppress the other, and moderates are either forced to choose a side or be caught in the crossfire. I don't want to be surprised, but we've been polarizing for so long that we honestly should've seen this coming.

The Anti-fascists and anarchists represent the worst of this demonization and identity politics crap. Whether you agree with them or not, what they've been doing the wake of Trump's inauguration is unacceptable. I want to remain as neutral as I can, but I firmly believe they and other extreme leftists were the one's that brought violence into the current political discussion, and I think we may not reverse that. So many of them are either upper-middle class college students and young adults who have been indoctrinated by these ideologies, be it by their professors or whatever media they've been consuming. Many of them sincerely believe they're trying to prevent the second coming of Adolf Hitler (despite how eccentric and wild he is, he is anything but Hitler), and they're willing to smack down anyone they think is even remotely in their way. Most aptly shown when a Berkeley professor dressed in Antifa red/black smashes a bikelock over a Trump supporter's head.

There's no actual debate and discussion anymore. We've devolved to name calling (Nazi, SJW, racist, "libtard", etc.) and outright violence. Not only that; fear, intimidation, and suppressing people's right to speak their mind seem to be the way to quash the competition nowadays.

EDIT: Very sorry if I needlessly rambled and seemed accusatory. This is something I have discussed many times with several different people so I'm a little passionate in this case, where other times I try to avoid politics.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 07:27:02 PM by VonHellsing »

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Re: The Struggles of the Politically 'Purple'
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2017, 07:27:38 PM »
Basically this. I'd like to think I'm a bit more moderate, but I definitely have a more conservative/Republican lean. I frankly don't care at all about someone's beliefs; you believe what you want, and I can't change your mind or stop you in doing what you want. That's the beauty of the United States and other Western democratic societies; you can believe what you want, and even if I hate it and I think it's idiotic, I can't do anything about that besides try and talk to you about it. Even then, I won't have a problem with it unless it pushes you to commit violence or you think it gives you the right to thumb your nose at people.

But as we all know by now; a peaceful political discussion almost always turns into a blatant argument, and those do nothing but make people angry and potentially turn violent. No one is blameless in the current political scene. Both sides have had their own faults and have done their own crazy and stupid things. We've regressed back to post-World War One Europe, where the right and the left fight each other in the streets in order to suppress the other, and moderates are either forced to choose a side or be caught in the crossfire. I don't want to be surprised, but we've been polarizing for so long that we honestly should've seen this coming.

The Anti-fascists and anarchists represent the worst of this demonization and identity politics crap. Whether you agree with them or not, what they've been doing the wake of Trump's inauguration is unacceptable. I want to remain as neutral as I can, but I firmly believe they and other extreme leftists were the one's that brought violence into the current political discussion, and I think we may not reverse that. So many of them are either upper-middle class college students and young adults who have been indoctrinated by these ideologies, be it by their professors or whatever media they've been consuming. Many of them sincerely believe they're trying to prevent the second coming of Adolf Hitler (despite how eccentric and wild he is, he is anything but Hitler), and they're willing to smack down anyone they think is even remotely in their way. Most aptly shown when a Berkeley professor dressed in Antifa red/black smashes a bikelock over a Trump supporter's head.

There's no actual debate and discussion anymore. We've devolved to name calling (Nazi, SJW, racist, "libtard", etc.) and outright violence. Not only that; fear, intimidation, and suppressing people's right to speak their mind seem to be the way to quash the competition nowadays.

EDIT: Very sorry if I needlessly rambled and seemed accusatory. This is something I have discussed many times with several different people so I'm a little passionate in this case, where other times I try to avoid politics.

+1 Couldn't have said it better if I tried. Though it doesn't help that those on the Far Right are lso being absolutely horrible as well. But they aren't the ones causing riots, so sadly they are the lesser evil for now :/.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 07:33:11 PM by Lustful Bride »