Trump's Second Term

[Beorning]

Hey guys, help. How do I explain to people here in Poland why there are riots in LA right now? Because some people over really see this situation as: "The cops are enforcing the law, the criminals are angry and the woke left is protesting for no reason"...

[Oniya]

Ask them if they remember some guy sending goon squads to round up people 'without the right papers' and shipping them off to parts unknown.

[Sofia Grace]

Hey guys, help. How do I explain to people here in Poland why there are riots in LA right now? Because some people over really see this situation as: "The cops are enforcing the law, the criminals are angry and the woke left is protesting for no reason"...

I was just saying this morning I wonder how all of this is being depicted to the rest of the world. sigh

[Aiden]

America would rather destroy itself than let a black woman in power.

Also something about Gaza

Racism 

And the failures of the American education system 

[Beorning]

What I have trouble explaining to people is, I think, the matter of "Why should these people not be deported, if they are in the States illegally?".

[Krayz]

What I have trouble explaining to people is, I think, the matter of "Why should these people not be deported, if they are in the States illegally?".

For the kind of folks who are going to look at it that way, probably the best place to start is by explaining that many of the people being deported are not in the United States illegally. And if ICE is not going to do its proper due diligence to make sure that everyone they are deporting is actually in the country illegally, then it is the deportations that are illegal and the people ought to be rising up to impede the government's lawless actions.

If you're talking with folks who are more open to nuance and empathy, then the case of a child with stage 4 cancer having to leave the country where he was getting medical treatment because his mother was deported might be the next logical step. It demonstrates how much cruelty can result from appealing to the law as a justification without any consideration for basic human decency. 

That could lead you into a wider conversation about the disconnect between legality and morality. Something being legal does not mean that it is morally good, and something being illegal does not mean it is morally bad. One of the ways that you change bad laws is by resisting them. In the case of what's going on in the US right now, it's worth pointing out that there are people who voted for Trump, who wanted deportations, who are not happy with how it's going because they believed the government was going to be focusing on 'bad guys,' and then suddenly find their nice neighbour who has never done anything wrong being thrown out of the country.

[Missy]

Everything to do with Kilmar Abregado Garcia is also a good point, guy was given no due process, meaning he didn't get his case heard before a judge, was sent to a brutal concentration camp in a country he wasn't from and had no association with, then when he's finally brought back and finally gets to see a lawyer (which wasn't a given since the administration explicitly said they weren't going to do it), it turns out the witnesses against him are massively impeachable and may even be lying to get better treatment for themselves.

Basically everything you need to know in a single case.

[Missy]

That could lead you into a wider conversation about the disconnect between legality and morality. Something being legal does not mean that it is morally good, and something being illegal does not mean it is morally bad. One of the ways that you change bad laws is by resisting them. In the case of what's going on in the US right now, it's worth pointing out that there are people who voted for Trump, who wanted deportations, who are not happy with how it's going because they believed the government was going to be focusing on 'bad guys,' and then suddenly find their nice neighbour who has never done anything wrong being thrown out of the country.

I mean yeah, Adolf Hitler was elected into power by legal means, therefore his actions couldn't have been amoral #FacetiousBastard

[Oniya]

NPR also has a quick rundown of the protests.

[Beorning]

Thank you. And yeah, the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case is horrific. As is the case of that Turkish student who was grabbed by ICE for speaking against what's going on in Gaza. I could use more examples of such cases.

BTW. Can you guys explain the "sanctuary towns" to me?

[Oniya]

Sanctuary cities/towns basically limit their cooperation with organizations like ICE.  An example would be something like not disclosing the immigration status of someone pulled over for a traffic stop (a 'non-immigration related offense') or someone reporting that they are the victim of domestic violence.

Let's say that passport-bro Stan has trafficked a woman from the Philippines.  He says he's going to marry her so she'll be a citizen, but in reality he treats her horribly and tells her that if she goes to the cops she'll be deported.  Since the attitude towards divorce in her hometown is that the woman is 'spoiled goods', she and her family will be ruined.  Sanctuary laws take away his ability to use that threat.

[TheGlyphstone]

What I have trouble explaining to people is, I think, the matter of "Why should these people not be deported, if they are in the States illegally?".

Along with what other people have said, there is illegal and there is 'illegal'. Someone who secretly sneaks across the border in a smuggler truck, and someone who openly walks over and flags down the nearest border patrol car to request asylum, are equally illegal under US law because neither of them applied for a visa and paid the fees/waited the delay period for a 'legal' border crossing. So refugees from gang violence or persecution are being treated like potential criminals

[Oniya]

I'm dying here.

Trump attended a production of Les Mis at the Kennedy Center

1) He was booed.
2) According to Meidastouch, a random group of drag queens also attending were cheered.  (Footage of both audience reactions is included.)
3) He claims that he loves the show, but can't answer whether he identifies more with Valjean - the actual protagonist of the show, or Javert - the ruthless antagonist (who admittedly gets a 3 minute redemption arc.)  My vote is Thenardier.

Yeah, Trump loves a show where the good guys are the ones

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

getting gunned down by the military for

protesting terrible living conditions.  (Is that a spoiler?  That might be a spoiler.)

[TheGlyphstone]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/sen-alex-padilla-forcibly-removed-dhs-sec-kristi-noems-press-conferenc-rcna212688?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

Seems we have reached the stage of the game where the opposition starts being arrested on trumped-up charges...

[Oniya]

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.450934/gov.uscourts.cand.450934.64.0_1.pdf

Gavin Newsom has sued Trump for the unrequested deployment of the National Guard.  The District Court for the Northern District of California has supported Newsom.  The case has been escalated to the 9th District of the Federal Courts.

The Guard is normally deployed at the request of a state's governor - there are only two times that the President has previously done a direct deployment.

The first was during the Civil Rights movement in 1965, when Johnson deployed the Guard to defend peaceful protestors against violence.  The second was during the Postal strike of 1970, when Nixon deployed the Guard to ensure the delivery of the US mail.

This chain of command is codified in Title 10 - ironically, the same bit of military code that Trump cited to justify his federalization of the troops.

Trump's actions (as described by the judge) were illegal—both exceeding the scope of his statutory authority and violating the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

That 10th Amendment?  That's the one Republicans are referring to when they're ranting about States' rights.

'The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.'

[Sofia Grace]

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.450934/gov.uscourts.cand.450934.64.0_1.pdf

Gavin Newsom has sued Trump for the unrequested deployment of the National Guard.  The District Court for the Northern District of California has supported Newsom.  The case has been escalated to the 9th District of the Federal Courts.

The Guard is normally deployed at the request of a state's governor - there are only two times that the President has previously done a direct deployment.

The first was during the Civil Rights movement in 1965, when Johnson deployed the Guard to defend peaceful protestors against violence.  The second was during the Postal strike of 1970, when Nixon deployed the Guard to ensure the delivery of the US mail.

This chain of command is codified in Title 10 - ironically, the same bit of military code that Trump cited to justify his federalization of the troops.

Trump's actions (as described by the judge) were illegal—both exceeding the scope of his statutory authority and violating the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

That 10th Amendment?  That's the one Republicans are referring to when they're ranting about States' rights.

'The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.'

Aaaaaand this motherfucker appealed, per usual. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/06/12/trump-guard-california-newsom602riya.html

[Beorning]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/sen-alex-padilla-forcibly-removed-dhs-sec-kristi-noems-press-conferenc-rcna212688?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

Seems we have reached the stage of the game where the opposition starts being arrested on trumped-up charges...

I must say Trump's authoritarism progresses fast. Back here, it took PiS 8 years to get to the point when they had opposition MPs detained for attending peaceful protests.

[Oniya]

it took PiS 8 years

He did have his first term to start the rhetoric.  He's been flogging the whole Deep State idea (if not the actual name) about corrupt officials since 2016 at a minimum.

[TheGlyphstone]

Granted the conceptual idea of the 'Deep State' in its various names has a long and blood-drenched history. The Jews, the Illuminati, the Catholics, the Masons, the Jews again...

[Beorning]

Another question: don't American Congresspeople have any legal protection? Over here, you cannot just detain an MP like that. Not to mention, charge them with crimes without parliament's consent. One of signs that PiS was getting dangerous is that, in the end, they had cops disregard the MPs legal protections.

[Ollumhammersong]

Another question: don't American Congresspeople have any legal protection? Over here, you cannot just detain an MP like that. Not to mention, charge them with crimes without parliament's consent. One of signs that PiS was getting dangerous is that, in the end, they had cops disregard the MPs legal protections.

They don't have that level of legislative/diplomatic immunity. Actually neither do the MP's here in Canada, the idea of an MP being protected from being arrested unless specifically authorized by the house of commons is very unusual to me. In north America that kind of legal setup would seem too corrupt to permit. MPs could get away with serious corruption or worse and if the house just didn't want to have one of their own arrested they could just form ranks and grant immunity. At least that's the way such a setup would be perceived over here. 

The only time American congressional members are immune from arrest, at least to my understanding is while they are inside capital hill or going to and from capital hill. Basically they can't be barred from attending congressional sessions or arrested afterward for whatever they said during said sessions. But when they're out in the wider world, so to speak. those protections cease and they're treated like anyone else by the law. At least in theory.

I know American congressional members can't be investigated by the FBI or other bodies without prior authorization. This was after the ABSCAM incident in the 70s where the FBI accidentally stumbled over six corrupt congressmen while investigating a completely unrelated matter. 

[Annaamarth]

Hey guys, help. How do I explain to people here in Poland why there are riots in LA right now? Because some people over really see this situation as: "The cops are enforcing the law, the criminals are angry and the woke left is protesting for no reason"...

Sorry, a few days late, but ...

1 - the "riots" were limited to, like, a three block or two block area.  A couple of self-driving cars (that nobody liked) got burned because they doubled as surveillance things.

2 - the "riots" are in quotes, because this is nothing compared to the 2010 Lakers win or when the Dodgers beat the Yankees last year, much less the Rodney King riots in '92.

3 - as this history suggests, LA has a great deal of history in dealing with riots.  They didn't need or want help, because the problem area was contained.

4 - the vast majority of protestors were just protesting peacefully.  Everything was fine until National Guard and Marines were deployed, which was very much an inflammatory move.

Another question: don't American Congresspeople have any legal protection? Over here, you cannot just detain an MP like that. Not to mention, charge them with crimes without parliament's consent. One of signs that PiS was getting dangerous is that, in the end, they had cops disregard the MPs legal protections.

In theory they have more-or-less the same legal protections as the normal citizen, but less so.

For example, everyone has freedom of speech (and "everyone" here means "everyone" not "every citizen") and the right to critique the government, but a lot of the rights that are about critiquing the government or protecting citizens from the government are less applicable to people in government ... because they are the government.

This means that an extremist nutter spouting angry bullshit on the floor of Congress can be censured when a citizen peacefully spouting idiocy would not be.

That said, no that guy shouldn't have been detained like that - I'm given to understand they didn't know who he was and just kinda jumped on the "abuse of power" lever.

[Oniya]

This is such a small, petty thing on his part, but...The Rose Garden is getting paved over.

The flag poles have already been installed and criticized as being dangerous to the helicopter access for the White House.  (Also, I'm wondering if 88 feet is in any way a standard height for flag poles or just... coincidence.  Bragging about raising a pole of that size is compensating in any event.)

[HairyHeretic]

While I do generally believe in the saying "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", in Dumb-old's case I'd be willing to make an exception and say the 88 is quite possibly a deliberate nod, though one probably suggested by one of his inner circle. I doubt he actually cares enough about anyone other than himself to do that on his own.

[Blythe]

88 is absolutely a custom number, that's....uh....something he would have had to specifically ask for.