What's in the news?

[Oniya]

A Republican presidential elector, one of the 538 people asked to choose officially the president of the United States says he will not cast his electoral vote for Trump.

I've heard that there are an indeterminate number of electors who intend to follow the national popular vote instead of their 'state vote'.  I've also been hearing varying reports about the status of recounts being sought in PA and MI.

[Cassandra LeMay]

I don't believe that we should be so optimistic and hope that the courts can protect us for much longer; keep in mind that they also let Citizens United pass, and it wont be long before the Supreme Court turns into the Kangaroo Court once Trump is at the helm. The government of the people, by the people, and for the people is now no more, I'm afraid, having now effectively repealed itself...

Citizens United was certainly a bad decision for several reasons, but when it comes to political contributions, the real kicker was SpeechNow vs. FEC, a DC Court of Appeals decision based on Citizens. Why everyone always talks about Citizens United is beyond me. True, it sounds bad when corporations can give to politicians without limit, but many corporations made little, or no, use of that. It's the wealthy CEOs and owners of corporations (as private citizens) who make the largest donations, and for that you can thank SpeechNow, which removed all limitations on SuperPAC contributions, essentially declaring them unconstitutional. Citizens United was problematic enough, but the DC Court based its SpeechNow decision on a part of Citizens that might very well have been nothing more than dictum.

But, as problematic both decisions may have been in their consequences and doctrinal underpinning, fact is that courts sometimes make bad decisions. In this case the consequences are too big to just brush them aside as "shit happens", but neither do I think we should let them destroy our trust in the courts.

[Beguile's Mistress]

How bathroom bill backlash cost North Carolina’s Republican governor his job

[TheGlyphstone]

I don't believe that we should be so optimistic and hope that the courts can protect us for much longer; keep in mind that they also let Citizens United pass, and it wont be long before the Supreme Court turns into the Kangaroo Court once Trump is at the helm. The government of the people, by the people, and for the people is now no more, I'm afraid, having now effectively repealed itself...

Let me try to explain why your fears of a Trump kangaroo court are entirely groundless - as with most of the other concerns you've had about American democracy someone falling apart at the roots, it's because of the inherent hardwired checks on Presidential power in the system.

Foremost, there is the very, very important distinction that unlike Cabinet posts, ambassadorships, or governmental agency leads, a president cannot just appoint whoever the hell they want to a Supreme Court seat. They can nominate whoever they want, but that nomination must be confirmed by the Senate as per Article Two of the Constitution. And unless you want to posit that the Senate is already a 'kangaroo congress'(?) by simple virtue of sharing a party affiliation, he's not going to be able to shove just anyone he wants into the slot. He certainly can't appoint someone who isn't already a professor of law, law clerk, or sitting judge, because 'they're unqualified' is the easiest grounds for rejection the Senate can find, and the Senate will be looking for a justice who will back their decisions, not Trump's. They have a majority of 54-44-2, which lets them rubber-stamp a conservative justice, but it only takes a few defectors to vote alongside the Democrats to block someone, and you can guarantee there will be at least 7+ of those 54 Senators more interested in guaranteeing their policies future judiciary support than Trump's mouth-farts.

Secondly...we already know his shortlist of potential nominees.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/06/politics/donald-trump-supreme-court-nominee-shortlist/

All of them are known figures in the political or judicial arena. None of them have ever expressed the sort of opinions that Trump would need to somehow institute a facist regime, and unless you're willing to go so far as to propose some sort of Illuminati-level conspiracy, they're all true conservatives, not people who will back anything Trump does without question unless it toes the existing GOP agenda (for example, that article you linked about defunding sanctuary cities...that aligns with Trump's goals, but is something the GOP already had in the works before he won the election, so it's him doing what they want him to rather than vice versa).

[Lustful Bride]

China confirms it had Nuclear Capable bombers circling Taiwan this week.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-circled-taiwan-with-nuke-bombers-before-trump-call/ar-AAlc5WX?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCOMMDHP15

[Beguile's Mistress]

Along with all of the above the Supreme Court chooses which cases it wishes to hear in session.  There is a process that must be followed to be entered on their docket and they don't willy-nilly take testimony and make rulings without discussion and deliberation.  The political philosophies of the members can have an effect on their decisions but as has been said before even a conservative is more middle of the road in his or her seat.

Also, the vetting process the nominees go through is very stringent and their entire resume comes up for review in those Congressional hearings.  In this case, the Legislative Branch is a check against the Judicial and Executive Branches. 

Voters can still make an impact on the selection by contacting their Senators and Representatives and pressing them to make an appropriate decision since those elected officials must answer to them in the next election.

Just look at what happened in the North Carolina gubernatorial race.

[Anteros]

Ohio Senate passes bill to ban abortion when heartbeat can be detected: http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/ohio-senate-passes-bill-to-ban-abortion-when-heartbeat-can-be-detected

[Lustful Bride]

Ohio Senate passes bill to ban abortion when heartbeat can be detected: http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/ohio-senate-passes-bill-to-ban-abortion-when-heartbeat-can-be-detected

*on the fence with this* I cant decide one way or the other on this.

In other news: Trump says the US military will take on a non interventionist policy.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-lays-out-non-interventionist-us-military-policy/ar-AAleu37?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCOMMDHP15

*shakes head* I disagree...I hate seeing so many lost lives in our army, but the world isn't as it was in the 40s, we cant just hide in our borders and hope all will be well.

[Trigon]

@TheGlyphstone, I will address each of your points here,

Let me try to explain why your fears of a Trump kangaroo court are entirely groundless - as with most of the other concerns you've had about American democracy someone falling apart at the roots, it's because of the inherent hardwired checks on Presidential power in the system.

The concentration of executive power that has been ongoing for the past few decades is very well documented. In fact, this inherent problem was noted as early as the 19th century by Alexis de Tocqueville. Whatever checks and balances that would keep executive power at bay have been eroding for quite some time now.


Again, as I've stated before, it is not necessary that his nominations be loyal to him personally. Only to the far right and the corporate interests that want to take over, of which he is the front runner for. The Citizens United ruling was only a preview for this...

Foremost, there is the very, very important distinction that unlike Cabinet posts, ambassadorships, or governmental agency leads, a president cannot just appoint whoever the hell they want to a Supreme Court seat. They can nominate whoever they want, but that nomination must be confirmed by the Senate as per Article Two of the Constitution. And unless you want to posit that the Senate is already a 'kangaroo congress'(?) by simple virtue of sharing a party affiliation, he's not going to be able to shove just anyone he wants into the slot. He certainly can't appoint someone who isn't already a professor of law, law clerk, or sitting judge, because 'they're unqualified' is the easiest grounds for rejection the Senate can find, and the Senate will be looking for a justice who will back their decisions, not Trump's. They have a majority of 54-44-2, which lets them rubber-stamp a conservative justice, but it only takes a few defectors to vote alongside the Democrats to block someone, and you can guarantee there will be at least 7+ of those 54 Senators more interested in guaranteeing their policies future judiciary support than Trump's mouth-farts.

Oh really? What makes you think he can't do that? The rules? He's already shown a willingness to disregard the Constitution, if his deportation squad is anything to go by. His supporters are already emboldened to make threats to free speech.

Trump has already put a bunch of unqualified people into his cabinet, such as Ben Carson for HUD, among other notables such as Stephen Bannon and Betsy DeVos.

And the great majority of the Republicans have so far proven to be completely spineless in the face of Trump, with few daring to oppose him. Now that Trump did win, he's plotting to purge all those Republicans who opposed him. Some others capitulated quite easily, such as Romney. Furthermore, they are more united than you think regarding the Trump's pick for the Supreme Court.

Again, I will concede that, yes, whoever he nominates probably won't be loyal to him personally. But all evidence so far points to him choosing someone who will either be very ideological, or someone who will probably have very low moral standards and will nonetheless be easily corruptible. Citizens United was passed through by the Supreme Court, despite the fact that it heavily favors the rich, even before Trump arrived on the scene.

Did anyone notice that Trump is also planning on outright selling presidential access to big money donors?

Secondly...we already know his shortlist of potential nominees.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/06/politics/donald-trump-supreme-court-nominee-shortlist/

All of them are known figures in the political or judicial arena. None of them have ever expressed the sort of opinions that Trump would need to somehow institute a facist regime, and unless you're willing to go so far as to propose some sort of Illuminati-level conspiracy, they're all true conservatives, not people who will back anything Trump does without question unless it toes the existing GOP agenda (for example, that article you linked about defunding sanctuary cities...that aligns with Trump's goals, but is something the GOP already had in the works before he won the election, so it's him doing what they want him to rather than vice versa).

That list is already worrisome as is, even without Trump. There is no need to resort to conspiracy here; he's doing this in broad daylight, and the reason he's getting away with it is because a bunch of people on all sides of the political spectrum are grossly underestimating the strength of the movement he has behind him. That the Constitution lays out what he can or cannot do doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be restrained by it. Let us recall, for instance, that Hitler's regime never repudiated the Weimar Constitution, despite the fact that he violated or ignored it at every possible instance.

In light of all this, I have yet to see a convincing argument that Trump won't turn the Supreme Court into a Kangaroo Court. There is literally no basis for believing otherwise.


That being said, it may be the case that resistance to his administration, in both the GOP and the Democratic party, or in our American institutions in general, may be much stronger than I give it credit for. This however remains to be seen. I have very little confidence that the GOP or the "true conservatives" will be up to the task, so I'm not going to hold my breath for them. Maybe the Democrats will be able to pull it off, or other third parties may be able to gain enough strength in the wake of their capitulation to successfully resist Trump. Let us hope they are, cause the GOP probably won't be...

[TheGlyphstone]

A lot of people like to keep bringing up Hitler=Trump parallels. Personally, there's way too much they have in common, but not politically. The thing that they all miss, or forget, is that Hitler wasn't overthrowing a democratic government. He was returning Germany to an autocratic government after their brief 14-year flirtation with democracy. More importantly, no one in Germany, neither the right nor the left, liked it - it was effectively forced upon them as a concession by the victorious Allies. Hitler didn't need to officially repudiate the Weimar Constitution because no one in Germany cared about it to begin with, they had no emotional investment in it and were as happy to ignore it as he was.

In direct contrast, American has 228 years of life under a democratic government with a constitution. That's the longest-standing democratic society in human history since the ancient Greeks, and they only ever managed one city+surrounding countryside under a single government. We are the pre-eminent democracy with a staggeringly massive amount of both tradition and simple inertia behind that democracy.  It took Hitler and the Nazis 9 years to build enough support to put him into the chancellorship and then vote him autocratic authority. Trump only has 4 years, and unlike Hitler he does not have strong support from his legislative branch.

Personally, I don't even think he'd want to be a lifelong ruler anyways. Every indication we've had since the election has been that he has no idea what he got himself into, and he hasn't even been inaugurated yet. He's surrounding himself with utterly unqualified people (at least he didn't put Carson in charge of Education, can you imagine that nightmare) to basically be his yes-men and run the administration for him. That doesn't scream 'impending dictator' to me, he'll take his 4 years, try for 8 only because the man is physiologically incapable of considering the possibility of failure, then go back to private life and leverage 'was President of the United States' into his resume and business empire. Meanwhile, we'll be left to clean up the horrendous mess he left behind - for example, look at how China flipped its lid when he tweeted about his phone call with the president of Taiwan, whom we've officially never actually acknowledged to avoid starting WW3 in Asia.

It's like the joke 'why rule the world, when you can own it and lease it out to the residents?'. Being a dictator is a lot of work, and Trump is an old man.

[Trigon]

Before you lull yourself into a false sense of security, let us not forget that the Roman Republic stood for ~400 years before it was turned into the Empire. The fact that our own democratic institutions have been around for over two centuries does not mean they won't suddenly collapse.

In the interests of clarity, let's lay out the facts here:

Firstly, Trump is staffing his administration with ideologues, cronies, billionaires, and incompetents. On that basis, there is every reason to believe that his choice for the Supreme Court justice will probably be just as bad. And even before he arrived on the scene, there was Citizens United. I mean, come on, it's not like the Supreme Court had ever made resoundingly bad decisions or blatantly political ones before, right?

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

*cough Scott vs Sanford *cough

Secondly, the GOP has so far proven to be completely helpless against him. Yes, it is true that deep divisions within the Republican Party still remain. But that certainly hasn't stopped him from getting what he wants from them thus far, as the "resistance" has so far proven to have been pretty pathetic. How long those divisions will remain is anyone's guess, as will whether or not they will be relevant. And thanks to our broken two party system, the only real opposition to Trump will necessarily be the Democrats. And they have been effectively decapitated in the wake of Clinton's loss.

Thirdly, he has shown a willingness to outright disregard Constitutional protections and due process of law. For that matter, he probably hasn't even bothered to read it (recall his infamous "Article XII" debacle a while back).

Fourthly, he will have access to our surveillance network. It was already out of control under Obama, and Trump certainly has shown no interest in reigning it in, instead wanting to expand it. Also, given his behavior on Twitter, I'm pretty sure that things will take a turn towards the creepy in relatively short order.

And finally, he is being given control of our armed forces, and our nuclear arsenal. On the campaign trail, he has stated that he wanted to "bomb the sh*t out of ISIS". He wanted to "bring back waterboarding (and worse!)" and expand operations at Guantanamo. And if his recent rants are anything to go by, he also wants to pick a fight with China, another nuclear power. As far as I am aware, there is very little in the way of constitutional checks on the President's ability to wage war, as he's Commander in Chief during those times.


So, can our institutions keep him in check? You know what, I'll admit it, I have no fucking clue. I will gleefully admit that I'm no lawyer, or a professor of law, or even a student of law. And yes, Trump is a 70 year old man, I get that he's old.

In fact, my specialty back in school was mathematics, science, and logic. And I study history on my spare time as a somewhat dorky hobby. As such, I'm basing my viewpoints on the particular skill set allotted to me. So you are free to consider my arguments accordingly. If you decide it's nothing to worry about, then fine, sure, whatever! Nothing to worry about.

All I'm going to say is that, I only believe in what I see. Does that make me pessimistic? Not necessarily. I actually don't think the far right will last very long in power. But I believe that in the same way that a drunk driver can't possibly hope to survive by driving 120 mph headlong into a brick wall. Will it come down to that? Dunno...

[Blythe]

The more in-depth Trump-centric debate should be taken either to it's own thread or to one of the other existing Trump-related threads, please.



Apparently Oklahoma might get a new grading system in the works when it comes to evaluating schools. Purportedly, these changes will include graduation rate being weighted heavier in the evals as well as heavier weighting in the evals regarding academic improvement for at-risk students.

[Trigon]

News flash: The Gestapo FBI is investigating a Huffington Post reporter for having joked about a fake news article on Twitter: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58471b9fe4b0fe5ab6936b54

I bet nobody saw that one coming, eh?

[TheGlyphstone]

Not like that's anything new, honestly. The FBI has been doing that sort of random overreaction since 9/11, if not before.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Got this email earlier today.

Donald Trump is the president-elect, but the man running the transition is Indiana Governor Mike Pence. And that's terrifying.

In Congress, Pence led the fight to shut down the government to defund Planned Parenthood. He signed the infamous bill allowing businesses to refuse service to LGBT people. He almost single-handedly caused an HIV outbreak in his state by slashing funding for reproductive health.1

And he says it's his dream to "send Roe v. Wade to the ash heap of history."

Since the election, tens of thousands of people have made donations in Mike Pence's name to help fight the Trump administration's anti-woman agenda.

It's impossible to underestimate what an extremist Mike Pence is, and Trump's utter lack of knowledge or even interest in policy means Pence is positioned to be the most powerful Vice President we've ever seen.

We're already getting reports that Trump is skipping most of his high priority intelligence briefings and leaving them to Pence. And who do you think Republicans in Congress are talking to about their priority legislation?

Pence cosponsored legislation to end birthright citizenship for children of immigrants. He supports taxpayer funding of pseudo-scientific "gay conversation therapy." He's pushed to shut down abortion clinics, and during his time as governor of Indiana, a woman was literally sent to jail for abortion.2

I haven't had time to check all the facts yet but just the thought of all of this happening makes Trump's lack of experience and game playing and posturing even more of a threat.

The source is a site called weareultraviolet.org that I monitor to keep in touch with where peoples' minds are going.

[TheGlyphstone]

Got this email earlier today.

I haven't had time to check all the facts yet but just the thought of all of this happening makes Trump's lack of experience and game playing and posturing even more of a threat.

The source is a site called weareultraviolet.org that I monitor to keep in touch with where peoples' minds are going.

Yeah, that is the most terrifying thing. Not Trump's narcissism or ambition, but the fact that he is putting truly evil people in charge of effectively running his administration for him and as his closest advisors.

[Lustful Bride]

A dozen highschool students were taken to the hospital after eating Tainted gummy bears (That had a marijuana like substance laced on them). Thankfully, no fatalities or serious sickness.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/naperville-north-students-fall-ill-after-eating-tainted-gummy-bears/ar-AAlegfw?ocid=HPCOMMDHP15

[RedRose]

As someone European, I don't think America is getting concentration camps and Gestapo anytime soon. Not every sicko is Hitler. One can still be bad and "not Hitler". Frankly apart from Stalin, there aren't many "Hitlers".

[Cassandra LeMay]

As someone European, I don't think America is getting concentration camps and Gestapo anytime soon. Not every sicko is Hitler. One can still be bad and "not Hitler". Frankly apart from Stalin, there aren't many "Hitlers".

Agreed. Trump is not Hitler, and the comparrison does carry a certain danger with it, as Van Jones remarked in an interview with Rolling Stone:

Part of what we've got to fight against is this cartoon character of Trump as a Hitlerseque hatemonger – which means that all he has to do is be slightly better than that and everybody's shocked.

I think there is some merit to this argument; the more you expect Trump to do something "super bad", the more something he does that is "just bad" becomes acceptable, given that it could have been worse.

[Trigon]

Agreed. Trump is not Hitler, and the comparrison does carry a certain danger with it, as Van Jones remarked in an interview with Rolling Stone:
I think there is some merit to this argument; the more you expect Trump to do something "super bad", the more something he does that is "just bad" becomes acceptable, given that it could have been worse.

I will agree that, yes, how far Trump will actually take things does remain to be seen. But, at the same time, I believe we should keep our guard up. Particularly if you are an ethnic minority (as I am), a woman, LGBT, the middle or working classes, etc.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Everything Trump does should be held suspect and questioned and we shouldn't let up on that.

Equating him to Hitler falls more along the lines of recognizing that he is charismatic, powerful, likes being unpredictable and is first and foremost a salesman.  He never was a politician and will never be a statesman but he does have the ability to be tyrannical and dictatorial and loves to surround himself with sycophants and toadies.  He is a world class bully and needs to be called out on every inappropriate move he makes. 

We all need to be vigilant and use our power with our elected officials to keep him in line.

[Missy]

Power which is greatly diminished to say the least.

To be honest if he can get away with calling women he hates fat pigs and saying things like "there was blood coming out of her eyes and blood coming out of her whatever", then what can you really call him out on?

Can we hope that conservatives are reasonable to not sit on there asses and not care when a troup of fucks charge through the streets of some other town waving the battle flag of northern virginia proclaiming "white power"? When some crew of fucks do shit that effects someone else?

Pardon my cynicism, but I'm an Atheist so pray enough people have enough sense to know better on the the nineteenth.

[Lustful Bride]

Giraffes are now the latest species to be added to the Endangered list after a large die off.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/giraffe-facing-extinction-after-devastating-decline-experts-warn/ar-AAlicJJ?li=BBnb4R7&ocid=HPCOMMDHP15

[Beguile's Mistress]

Power which is greatly diminished to say the least.

To be honest if he can get away with calling women he hates fat pigs and saying things like "there was blood coming out of her eyes and blood coming out of her whatever", then what can you really call him out on?

Can we hope that conservatives are reasonable to not sit on there asses and not care when a troup of fucks charge through the streets of some other town waving the battle flag of northern virginia proclaiming "white power"? When some crew of fucks do shit that effects someone else?

Pardon my cynicism, but I'm an Atheist so pray enough people have enough sense to know better on the the nineteenth.

All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.  We can hope and pray and wait for someone else to do something or we can follow him on Twitter and offer our own responses.  We can follow our Congress Members and the Cabinet Members and anyone else in government and let them know we care and we don't want him getting away with things.  Remember, less than one in four people actually voted for him and some are already regretting it. 

I've been following news stories and posting in the comments sections leaving comments on Twitter.  If everyone does that it will have an effect on him.

[TheGlyphstone]

Power which is greatly diminished to say the least.

To be honest if he can get away with calling women he hates fat pigs and saying things like "there was blood coming out of her eyes and blood coming out of her whatever", then what can you really call him out on?

Can we hope that conservatives are reasonable to not sit on there asses and not care when a troup of fucks charge through the streets of some other town waving the battle flag of northern virginia proclaiming "white power"? When some crew of fucks do shit that effects someone else?

Pardon my cynicism, but I'm an Atheist so pray enough people have enough sense to know better on the the nineteenth.

The only thing we can count on elected politicians to do is be selfish and protective of their power+privilege. But that's how the system works, since it gives us (the voters) leverage against them. If enough of us make it clear we'll replace them if they don't do what we want, they'll change their tune very swiftly. But that takes large-scale groundroots effort, and there's not a whole lot of that in the modern political climate when apathy is easier.