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Author Topic: Dragon Age 2  (Read 9011 times)

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Offline Wyrd

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #125 on: March 30, 2011, 10:53:12 PM »
Maybe you should go play Boulder's Gate :P. In fact! Lets all got play Boulder's Gate! I only play true RPGs anyway...

Offline consortium11

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #126 on: March 30, 2011, 11:13:50 PM »
As I've said a couple of times I'm actually enjoying DA2. I'm on a second playthrough now and while there isn't vast amounts of C+C leading to a different experience it's still fun for what it is. Do I see myself replaying it a decade after it's release like I do with the likes of Fallout (1+2), BG (1+2), Arcanum or RoA? Not really but then there aren't that many games regardless of quality that people will replay that much later.

Enjoying a game doesn't mean that I shouldn't notice or point out the flaws... I mean Fallout 2 certainly has enough... and some of my favourite other RPG games are deeply flawed to the extent that it's far too easy to simply give up on them then play them all the way through (Vampire: Bloodlines, KoTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol)... each of which is basically a broken, buggy half finished mess that even the best efforts of modders hasn't been able to completely help.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #127 on: March 31, 2011, 03:09:03 PM »
Maybe you should go play Boulder's Gate :P. In fact! Lets all got play Boulder's Gate! I only play true RPGs anyway...
I thought I already explained this to you. -__-;

Offline Wyrd

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #128 on: March 31, 2011, 03:15:33 PM »
Oh, I was only being a dick. With people over analyzing games I thought I'd spew out my own pile of crap. :P

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #129 on: March 31, 2011, 03:29:57 PM »
Oh, I was only being a dick. With people over analyzing games I thought I'd spew out my own pile of crap. :P
Urp, guess my sarcasm detector needs retuning. Sorry.

Offline grdell

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #130 on: April 19, 2011, 11:42:29 PM »
I still haven't really made up my mind as to whether or not to buy this. I really enjoyed DA:O. I downloaded the demo for this, though, and absolutely hated it. I've read the reviews, both the good and the bad, and they talk about it as if it's two different titles. I'd like to play it just to experience the story, but the combat just rubs me wrong. I don't want to be annoyed by that - maybe I'll just play on Easy. Don't mind me - I'm rambling. Should I bother?

Offline Hemingway

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #131 on: April 20, 2011, 06:05:44 AM »
If you ask me, it's not that bad at all. It's not Origins, but it does so many things better, too. The combat is more fast-paced, but it's not "dumb".

Offline Wyrd

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #132 on: April 20, 2011, 04:17:21 PM »
It really isn't a bad game. I even find Hawke to be more enjoyable then his Mass Effect counterpart. And it really made up for the crappy mess that DA:O was.

Offline consortium11

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #133 on: April 20, 2011, 05:37:22 PM »
If you've got the money to spare then I don't think you'd necessarily regret buying it. I quite dislike the combat... it's repetitive (as I've set out a couple of times basically every combat scene starts with a weak mob, you beat them and a stronger mob warps in/drops from the ceiling/rises from the ground surrounding you and far too often right next to your support characters, you beat them and it repeats), pretty non-tactical (even on the higher difficulties it generally descends to micromanagement of your support characters to avoid them getting swarmed or their area of effect spells... of which there are a lot... hitting friendly characters) and there's a lot of it. The whole design principle of "press a button, something awesome happens" also annoys me... combat becomes massively over stylised most apparently with mages... if you simply set them to the attack then they use their staff in a way resembling Gun Kata which gets pretty grating... but despite all that I've enjoyed my two playthroughs.

The plot and writings pretty average overall... it's not quite as cliché filled as the first and doesn't rip off elements from other games as completely... but the quality rises and falls dramatically with some parts being exceptional while others are pretty poor. Some of the skills are poorly balanced, while there's a lot of superficial C+C none of it really changes the game, not being able to fully equip the NPC's annoys me and you'll rarely become emotionally invested... but it's certainly not a bad game and enjoyable for what it is. It's not a sequel to Origins, it's merely set in the same universe and while Origins openly tried to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate and the like this game makes no attempts to do so.

Offline Wyrd

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #134 on: April 20, 2011, 05:49:50 PM »
How people look at Origins so highly and as some "spiritual BG successor" is completely stupid. It's more like a second rate Knights of the old republic clone with a lot of WoW stuff thrown in. 

Offline consortium11

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #135 on: April 20, 2011, 07:20:16 PM »
KoTOR of course basically being Baldur's Gate in space with a different camera position and using the Star Wars RPG ruleset as opposed to D&D...

Offline Wyrd

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #136 on: April 20, 2011, 07:25:24 PM »
God, Shuddup! BG is not even as great as you keep putting it. but its not a baaaaaad game, its just not that great. :p Then again, I havn't played the game since it came out so I barely remember the amazing experience. :/  Have you ever truly enjoyed an RPG the was not BG?

And with that goddamn logic, every RPG would be a slightly different version of BG. What a world!!!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 07:43:32 PM by Wyrd »

Offline Hemingway

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #137 on: April 20, 2011, 07:49:37 PM »
Yeah, I'm playing through Baldur's Gate ( 2, which is ways better than the original, which I already beat ), and it's not this mind-blowingly amazing game. We've come a long way since then, thankfully. DA2 improves on a lot of the problems Origins suffered from with combat. I think it's wrong to say it's not tactical. It's no less tactical than Origins was, that's for sure. It's more fast-paced ( faster, more damaging attacks, more emphasis on AoE, charging out-of-range enemies ), but that's it.

The animations, I agree, are over-the-top. I would've liked for combat to look more realistic. But if that's enough to ruin your experience, then I don't even know what to say.

As for the plot, I disagree there as well. It's far more interesting than DA:O, and doesn't have the standard Bioware structure. It's not the standard epic of the hero saving the world, but rather something more believable. It's not as straight-forward. There are actual peaks and valleys. I do think they could've given you a better sense of progress, but certainly toward the end it feels like much has changed.

There's also a much greater emphasis on characters, both Hawke and the companions. Firstly, Hawke is an actual character with actual emotions and such. I mean, he's not Shepard, but in some ways he's probably the more realistic character. The companions are what really make the game excellent in my eyes, though. Probably for the first time in any game I've played, the party members felt like genuine characters with their own lives, rather than a mob of people who for some strange reason all decide to follow the same person. Hawke is a strong influence on them, certainly, but their lives don't revolve solely around Hawke. Also, you get to have sex with a dusky skinned pirate with excellent taste in jewelry, so ... yeah, that alone would've been enough.

Offline Wyrd

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #138 on: April 20, 2011, 07:52:31 PM »
Plus, Hawke had something that Mr. Shepard has never been through... Character Development!! lol!

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #139 on: April 20, 2011, 07:57:02 PM »
That's kind of not fair. Shepard's character development has more to do with you than the story. I had a straight-up renegade game, but when it came to killing or rewriting the Geth (and undermining what it means to be a sentient being) I still did the "renegade action" but I did it with other intentions. He changed within his role as a renegade.

Oh, and if you have problems with DA 2: "Fixing your mess is not the demand of the Qun, for which you should be grateful." That is all.

Offline meikle

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #140 on: April 20, 2011, 08:01:41 PM »
I still haven't really made up my mind as to whether or not to buy this. I really enjoyed DA:O. I downloaded the demo for this, though, and absolutely hated it. I've read the reviews, both the good and the bad, and they talk about it as if it's two different titles. I'd like to play it just to experience the story, but the combat just rubs me wrong. I don't want to be annoyed by that - maybe I'll just play on Easy. Don't mind me - I'm rambling. Should I bother?

Why play on easy?

Dragon Age Origins on Normal is a lot harder than Dragon Age 2.  (I played through both on Hard, and Dragon Age 2 is basically a total breeze in comparison, especially with a dedicated healer.)  It doesn't help that both games are totally inconsistent as far as difficulty goes, though.

I also really preferred Dragon Age 2, for what it's worth.  Most of the complaints I've seen were really non-issues, with maybe the constant reuse of areas standing out.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 08:04:16 PM by meikle »

Offline Hemingway

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #141 on: April 20, 2011, 08:12:58 PM »
Plus, Hawke had something that Mr. Shepard has never been through... Character Development!! lol!

I'd think of it somewhat differently. Shepard is this awesome, larger-than-life, force-of-fricking-nature kind of guy who, no matter what, does not back down. Sort of an ideal person. A hero, basically. There are moments, of course, of doubt and all that. But they really only serve to emphasize the fact Shepard cannot be stopped.

Hawke isn't really like that. Hawke experiences loss and tragedy, but also success and glory. You know, like an actual person. And he reacts the way a person would, to a certain extent. Not always a tough guy. It works out well enough, I guess. I mean, this guy, despite his calm, gentlemanly voice and accent, he's not someone you want to mess with. It doesn't end well for most people. That is sort of scary.

Ahh, I don't know. But that's how it seems to me, anyway.

Offline Wyrd

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #142 on: April 20, 2011, 08:40:57 PM »
I can see your points you guys. But as much as I love ME, their just weren't many points of progression within the character of Shep. Hawke on the other hand was very interesting to flesh out and guide. 

Offline consortium11

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #143 on: April 21, 2011, 12:36:38 AM »
God, Shuddup! BG is not even as great as you keep putting it. but its not a baaaaaad game, its just not that great. :p

BG 2's better than the first one but I honestly think BG is a great game... and one that holds up fairly well to this day. Obviously, what makes a game "great" is subjective (see anything I say on Fallout 3, a game that if often regarded as an all-time great game) but outside of the incredibly hardcore RPG fans I don't think you'll find too many people who enjoy RPG's who wouldn't consider it so... especially for the time when the only thing that was even similar was Fallout, a fairly niche product at release.

Then again, I havn't played the game since it came out so I barely remember the amazing experience. :/

It's worth a replay... you should be able to pick up a big bundle (BG 1, ToTSC, DSoTSC, BG 2, ToB) relatively cheap and while the expansions aren't great taking a character all the way through is still a very rewarding experience. Even now that many of the things it basically introduced are RPG game staples and so don't have the impact they once did as I said above, I think it still holds up.

Have you ever truly enjoyed an RPG the was not BG?

I'm not sure quite where this question comes from... of course I've enjoyed RPG's that weren't BG (BG2)... I wouldn't even necessarily put it down as my favourite game. I've posted here pretty extensively about the other RPG games I've enjoyed.

I'm also not quite sure what "truly" enjoyed means. Even in games that I generally dislike or don't think a huge amount of there's been parts I enjoyed... despite it's best attempts to ruin me there were bits in Fallout 3 I found enjoyable. The Fall is an absolute mess but again, I enjoyed parts of it etc etc.

And with that goddamn logic, every RPG would be a slightly different version of BG. What a world!!!

Again I don't quite follow. KoTOR was developed by basically the same team, uses the same game structure and plot design, has the same real time with pause combat using the same system, has basically the same party system, basically the same quest system and otherwise borrows liberally... as we'd all expect it to. The only real differences are using Star Wars RPG as a base system instead of AD&D 2nd ed (although I believe the Star Wars RPG system is in turn based off 3rd Edition AD&D), less tactical combat (debuffing and buffing are far less important for example) and a different camera angle.

Obviously, many RPG's will have similar set ups and systems... but KoTOR (which I enjoy and is a stands up as a good game on its own merits) apes BG in many many ways. That's not necessarily a bad thing... and from Bioware, a team who are often not the most original (and why should they if what they did was good before), it's basically expected... hell, the Mass Effect series (especially the first one) owes a lot of its inspiration and structure to KoTOR...

Offline Wyrd

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #144 on: April 21, 2011, 07:49:35 AM »
Heh! I knew you liked Fallout. :D I like you Consotium, I really do, thats why I'm gonna drop this and leave it alone.

PS. When I say BG, I mean everything about it. (BG2 etc...) Plus, I've never played DnD or care about how the system works, so I don't really care at all how the game is structured and all that crap. As long as it's fun to play and to look at then Its by me. :P
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 07:52:30 AM by Wyrd »

Offline consortium11

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #145 on: April 21, 2011, 11:55:10 AM »
Oh, the system point was more to explain why despite having virtually the same game mechanics force powers and spells work differently between the BG/Icewind Dale games and KoTOR.

I've barely played any pen and paper RPGs and much like you couldn't care less about the system behind a game: when it was first announced and releases Temple of Elemental Evil was lauded for being the first cRPG based on AD&D 3.5 (I think). I quite liked it because it probably has the best and most tactical RPG combat I've ever seen... which I guess is a case of having a decent system and decent implementation... but I couldn't care less what system it actually is. Of course being a Troika game (who were basically Obsidian before Obsidian got their reputation) for it to be brilliant at one thing it had to be flawed pretty much everywhere else; so in ToEE you had great combat but a terrible plot, poor structure and tons of bugs, for Arcanum everything was brilliant but the combat... which was frankly horrible and virtually unplayable in real time and for Masquerade you got so many bugs and so much cut content that even Obsidian would blush....

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #146 on: April 21, 2011, 05:03:33 PM »
I like DA 2. There's a lot to be said for polish, and there's a lot to be said for fight brevity. Let's face it the days where you spend long stretches of minutes fighting a boss are as archaic in gaming as fighting-game boss cheating. If your boss fight lasts more than twenty minutes you've done something wrong. It's annoying to spend forty minutes in a fight only to die at the end and have to restart. The only way you can justify long-ass boss fights is with mid-fight check points.

Bioware explained some things, basically: If you think it's too easy on normal play on hard or nightmare. They said the repeat environs were so they could give more quests, but I kind of disagree. I want different environs. You can leave out some stupid quests to facilitate that.

Offline grdell

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #147 on: April 25, 2011, 08:39:57 PM »
Why play on easy?

Because I played through the DL demo and absolutely HATED the combat system. I figure on easy, it wouldn't annoy me as much. I don't play games to be annoyed.

Quote
Most of the complaints I've seen were really non-issues, with maybe the constant reuse of areas standing out.

I don't consider the combat overhaul a non-issue. If it bothers me that much (and it did), it's enough to wait until the game comes down in price beofre I commit to it.

Offline meikle

Re: Dragon Age 2
« Reply #148 on: April 25, 2011, 11:30:36 PM »
I'll be honest.  I don't know what 'the combat overhaul' refers to.  You have ... longer cooldowns on heal spells?