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Author Topic: I Love You Man (Apparently)  (Read 2069 times)

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Offline BraiochTopic starter

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I Love You Man (Apparently)
« on: August 06, 2010, 11:22:47 PM »
Quote
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/fashion/28friends.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&sq=gay&st=cse&scp=8

A neat little article that I ran across....while err...looking for less academic things ::)

Anyways, you see plenty of articles about the benefits or effects of a relationship between gay friends and gay men with straight or lesbian women and this is the first one (not really scientific, but a few specks of it here and there) that I've seen that deals with the relationships between heterosexual men and homosexual men.

Honestly I found myself agreeing with A LOT of what some of the editorial and personal opinions were thrown in. I typically get along damn well with straight men, several times having been called 'pretty cool for a gay dude' which while seemingly insulting to some, I found to be a great compliment. (Perhaps they learned a bit, eh?) Hell even my girlfriends are more like straight men are, I can't deal with too many of the 'typical' females, as they can be so...urgh.

Not too mention and majority of the gay scene and people in it really are (in my experience...my many experiences) quite nerve grinding. The drama and subtleties that I have no patience for are just thrown in at every turn, yet with the male (straight) friendships I have and the girlfriends I have that are just like the straight men, it's none of that. It's straight forward, no nonsense kind of things. Now I can't do anything about the sports things, as I'm just like "eh" about them.

Anyways, I'm curious what you all think. Throw it out there and what not, I'm curious to hear what those around here think (bet you Torch pops up XP) and I'm more curious to see what you straight guys feel about this. Any studies on gay male relationships with straight males (friends wise) would be clearly welcome, I myself will dig more for them as well.

Offline Jude

Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2010, 12:31:57 AM »
I want to be your friend.  You play any video games?

Offline BraiochTopic starter

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Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2010, 01:51:02 PM »
-Snickers-

Of course I like video games, could be a complete video game nerd and talk about them forever, then trail off into other things I associate with them. But that would be the biggest derailment I ever took part in, so the short and sweet is 'oh definitely.' ;)

Though I wonder with the new generations if video games could in fact help be another thing, other than the sports they referenced in the article, that could also be a sort of bonding factor between the two worlds. From the experience I have had, it's actually uncommon to find a gay man who likes video games as much as I do, a gay nerd is so hard to find. ::)

Offline Jude

Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2010, 02:47:22 PM »
I'm not a typical straight guy, I find sports completely uninteresting and I enjoy socialization an awful lot.  I guess the point of divergence with my personality and the stereotypical gay dude is probably obsession with fashion and trends (though I honestly don't think that stereotype is that accurate at all from the gay men I've known).

There are certainly some traits that the gay men I've known possess that I typically associate with straight females, and some traits that the gay women I've known possess that are typically associated with straight men.  All of which is kind of mystifying to me because a great deal of gender-based behavior is entirely cultural and homosexuals do not identify as transexuals; the two concepts are disjoint.

I guess what I'm musing about is what motivates these differences between straight men and gay men that often creates a gap and makes being friends a challenge.  As a gay man, do you feel like there is a stereotype out there you have to live up to like straight men do?  Do you think society has "roles" that homosexuals are expected to fill much as it does for heterosexuals?  And if so, where do bisexuals fall; are all of our personalities choreographed to some extent?

(Don't get me wrong, I realize we don't perfectly fit these roles, but there are definitely models out there that describe certain social norms, I'm just wondering if people of alternative lifestyles have their own norms they feel pressure to adhere to.)

Offline BraiochTopic starter

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Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2010, 03:08:02 PM »
I'm not a typical straight guy, I find sports completely uninteresting and I enjoy socialization an awful lot.  I guess the point of divergence with my personality and the stereotypical gay dude is probably obsession with fashion and trends (though I honestly don't think that stereotype is that accurate at all from the gay men I've known).

Same here, I'm not much of one for sports, especially watching them. Playing them has always been a touchy thing for me as my personality doesn't lead to very organized based events, plus a lot of organized groups I went into always had a bunch of jerks in it.

As for the fashion bit, I have enough to let me know what looks good on me pretty much intuitively and I can figure out what looks good on another person and such. Other than that there isn't much more to say about it as I don't have an obsession or this dying need to look good all the time. Hell sometimes I just go 'meh' and throw something clean (or somewhat clean >.>) on and don't bother with my hair and sometimes (like now) I forget what a razor is.

There are certainly some traits that the gay men I've known possess that I typically associate with straight females, and some traits that the gay women I've known possess that are typically associated with straight men.  All of which is kind of mystifying to me because a great deal of gender-based behavior is entirely cultural and homosexuals do not identify as transexuals; the two concepts are disjoint.

A good point as I associate with being a gay male. Meaning two separate things, my sexuality being that of homosexual, exclusively homosexual, and a great deal of being masculine in terms of my gender identity. I have traits from both sides and inbetween, but I have yet to meet a person who doesn't. I'm just so far into the masculine side of the spectrum that that is where I associate with being.

I guess what I'm musing about is what motivates these differences between straight men and gay men that often creates a gap and makes being friends a challenge.  As a gay man, do you feel like there is a stereotype out there you have to live up to like straight men do?  Do you think society has "roles" that homosexuals are expected to fill much as it does for heterosexuals?  And if so, where do bisexuals fall; are all of our personalities choreographed to some extent?

Well for the challenge bit, there was something (on E if I remember) that someone said that made me laugh and yet it made sense in a way. Perhaps straight men feel that since they sometimes objectify and sexualize their female counterparts, that perhaps they are uncomfortable with the idea of the same being done to them by another male. I know that I don't really like being objectified, by anyone and whenever someone starts to or has (as someone did recently, blech) I find it a bit crude.

And no, I have never been one to fit to any standard that might be put to me, either implied or overt. I was raised and predisposed to not caring what others think of me and just be myself. In a world where you can be anything, why be anything but yourself you know? What I associate with being is formed from who I actually am not what others expect of me, and I think far too many people lose sight of who they are in the midst of who they think they should be.

(I can't really speak for too many others in my lifestyle, as I don't really have all that many friends who are gay/lesbian. A lot of the gay men I have known fit the bill of those following a stereotype and it gets under my skin, mostly because the 'gay world' can be catty, shallow, self-absorbed and treacherous and I don't really like to 'play' like that. I would rather fight and die in the sun then to live and attack from the shadows, and far too many in the 'gay world' prefer those underhanded methods. Sad to think that so many have adhered to something like that.)

Offline Andol

Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2010, 06:34:15 PM »
I might not be adding much to the arctile here, but I am a gay nerd :P

Ahhhhh don't know what more to say :(

Offline BraiochTopic starter

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Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2010, 06:57:01 PM »
I won't be adding much as I can't, but...

WOOT for gay nerds!

FTW.

Offline Serephino

Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2010, 09:17:06 PM »
Does one have to like video games to be a dork?  I do play a few though, and I agree that cattiness is just fucking annoying.  I never did get along with girly women or stereotypical gay men either. 

That being said, I do have gay male friends, and straight male friends, and female friends.  I've never felt any pressure to fit into the stereotypical mold because I just don't care.  I'll wear socks with sandals if I want to!  I do care about my appearance, but not enough to listen to fashion experts who try to tell me what I should wear.   

Offline BraiochTopic starter

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Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2010, 09:24:27 PM »
Socks and sandals are never ok ;)

I kid, but no video games do not make a dork, but as much as I am in love with them?

Yes.

:P

Offline Andol

Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2010, 08:55:06 PM »
All I have say is....... Amen Serephino.... Amen. I feel the exact same way, and couldn't have said it even better myself.

Offline DudelRok

Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 02:31:31 AM »
The only time I have a "problem" with a homosexual male in terms of friendship is when they are woman-like-typical. Then again my view of women marks this behavior as annoying anyway, so it is obviously the personality type and not the sexuality which is annoying. Being typical, whiny and fitting that pretty little stereotype which as the OP stated is common.

It isn't the fact they the guy is gay but the fact they act like women. A Bro is your Bro! If a guy wanted a "chick-friend" he'd go get one as what he really wants is a FWB anyway. Being a heterosexual male limits the FWB to firmly female so leaves little time to deal with typical female behavior from a dude.

Short: Your Bro doesn't care what color the shades are or want to talk about his feelings, he just wants to hang out and play video games then go home after belittling another. Which is why the OP is "cool for a gay guy".

Granted this is a closed minded and, one could argue, rude point of view but it is the as Dudel sees it.

Offline Host of Seraphim

Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2010, 02:43:41 AM »
If a guy wanted a "chick-friend" he'd go get one as what he really wants is a FWB anyway.

...and this is why I love having gay guys as friends.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 10:40:08 PM by Host of Seraphim »

Offline Torch

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Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2010, 08:14:19 AM »
A neat little article that I ran across....while err...looking for less academic things ::)

Anyways, you see plenty of articles about the benefits or effects of a relationship between gay friends and gay men with straight or lesbian women and this is the first one (not really scientific, but a few specks of it here and there) that I've seen that deals with the relationships between heterosexual men and homosexual men.

Honestly I found myself agreeing with A LOT of what some of the editorial and personal opinions were thrown in. I typically get along damn well with straight men, several times having been called 'pretty cool for a gay dude' which while seemingly insulting to some, I found to be a great compliment. (Perhaps they learned a bit, eh?) Hell even my girlfriends are more like straight men are, I can't deal with too many of the 'typical' females, as they can be so...urgh.

Not too mention and majority of the gay scene and people in it really are (in my experience...my many experiences) quite nerve grinding. The drama and subtleties that I have no patience for are just thrown in at every turn, yet with the male (straight) friendships I have and the girlfriends I have that are just like the straight men, it's none of that. It's straight forward, no nonsense kind of things. Now I can't do anything about the sports things, as I'm just like "eh" about them.

Anyways, I'm curious what you all think. Throw it out there and what not, I'm curious to hear what those around here think (bet you Torch pops up XP)

 :P :P :P

I find it amusing that even straight guys are saying they can't deal with 'typical' female behavior. Which I can understand, because as a woman, I find the giggly girly nonsense annoying as hell (I've never giggled in my life. Ever. Just....hellno.)

I remember reading this when it came out last year, and was glad to read it again. Sure, gay and straight men can be friends, just as straight and lesbian women can be friends. Hopefully we've evolved as a society enough to say "I like having cool people as friends." without feeling the need to categorize and compartmentalize them into "my straight friends" and "my gay friends".

Although I gotta say the line in the article "Straight men give the worst advice" is probably true. Anyone asking Mr. Torch advice on women is going to be the recipient of a blank stare and a "Uhhh....I dunno, buy her something!" as the solution to any problem.  ::)

Offline Will

Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2010, 06:23:14 PM »
You mean that won't work!?  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[  Fuck.

Offline Torch

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Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2010, 06:51:05 PM »
You mean that won't work!?  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[  Fuck.

I didn't say it wouldn't work.  >:)

Offline BraiochTopic starter

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Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2010, 07:22:59 PM »
Women are like Raccoons with ADD, buy them something shiny and it works......

That or you know, cleaning up after yourself, maybe cooking dinner once in awhile and buying her nice clothes once in awhile......

But generally, shiny things >:)

Offline grdell

Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2010, 03:10:52 PM »
I tend to simplify my sexuality in social situations. It's a lot easier to say "I'm gay" than to explain exactly what a Kinsey 4 is, even though I'm technically more bi than gay, I still like guys more than women, etc., etc. So a lot of my co workers and other friends just accept me as gay. And most of them are straight. I find that it's not really a problem, and most of them don't really care. (Recently, I found myself in a social situation with a lot of new friends, and when I flat out told them I was gay, most of them were astonished. "I couldn't tell!" was a common theme. Whatev.)

Anyway, I am finding in today's world, most straight guys view it as "no big deal." Then again, I don't live in an ultra-conservative area or work in an ultra-conservative industry, either, so I feel lucky in that respect.

Offline Sweet Trouble

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Re: I Love You Man (Apparently)
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2010, 12:00:09 PM »
My now deceased brother-in-law was gay, well gay-flex is what he called it. He preferred men, but craved a woman once in a blue moon. He preferred to present himself as openly gay and enjoyed what he called his "flamin' 'tude" lol.
We had a lot of fun together. He introduced me to "gay" bars and Trans Beauty pageants. We both loved to dance and would go out together.
I did witness that due to his unashamed openness he had to deal with some close-minded people. He had straight men acquaintances but no real straight male friends who would admit to the friendship. They were to afraid of the label "rubbing off on them." That was their lost, he was a wonderful person and the world is a sadder place without him.


Although I gotta say the line in the article "Straight men give the worst advice" is probably true. Anyone asking Mr. Torch advice on women is going to be the recipient of a blank stare and a "Uhhh....I dunno, buy her something!" as the solution to any problem.  ::)

OMGooossh you are so right.  If it is not shiny, they think "something for the house" is acceptable.


Women are like Raccoons with ADD, buy them something shiny and it works......

That or you know, cleaning up after yourself, maybe cooking dinner once in awhile and buying her nice clothes once in awhile......

But generally, shiny things >:)

Correction not all of us are like Raccoons with ADD, some of us are like Pussy Cats and prefer the attention. Scratch their itch and they purr.
Now a nice shiny collar is acceptable. hehe  ;D