You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 09, 2016, 03:55:49 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: North Korea  (Read 4515 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MuninnTopic starter

North Korea
« on: May 21, 2010, 05:19:42 AM »
Clinton: N. Korea must face consequences

This situation is getting pretty scary and I'm in a country that's close enough to get into trouble!   

Anyone wanna help me fed-ex myself somewhere safer? :P

But, really, what are your thoughts on this situation? You think a war will really break out?  Do you think the North is being honest in claiming their innocence? Is Kim Jong Il nuts?

Offline Zakharra

Re: North Korea
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2010, 08:53:25 AM »
Kim Jong Il nuts?

 He is nuts and should have stopped a bullet long ago.

Offline GolGol

Re: North Korea
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2010, 09:26:04 AM »
Kim Jong Il is nuts. But at a same time rather funny. Just watch Team America :p

And I think there is little risk of war actually breaking out. North Korea does not want it and neither does anyone else. The difference is though that North Korea does not want peace either in order to keep their seclusion from the rest of the world and at the same time benefit from help packages.

That's my opinion at least :p

Offline MuninnTopic starter

Re: North Korea
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2010, 12:44:23 PM »
Kim Jong Il is nuts. But at a same time rather funny. Just watch Team America :p

And I think there is little risk of war actually breaking out. North Korea does not want it and neither does anyone else. The difference is though that North Korea does not want peace either in order to keep their seclusion from the rest of the world and at the same time benefit from help packages.

That's my opinion at least :p

This is true but the North is apparently quite quick to threaten war with anything they don't like - stop us from making a nuclear power plant where we can refine uranium? IF YOU DO SOMETHING WE'RE GONNA RECOGNIZE THIS AS AN ACT OF WAR. 
Stop us from test-firing our "satellite?" WE'RE GONNA DECLARE WAR. 
Oh, we totally didn't blow up that ship, nosiree, and if you try to blame us and punish us even though you have evidence WE'RE GONNA CALL THIS AN ACT OF WAR!!! >:(

Of course, this is a sarcastic oversimplification but you get the point.  The situation seems very volatile.  Or, rather, it has been for a long time and it's just getting worse...

Offline Stan'

  • The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be!
  • Lord
  • Enchanted
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Location: Glasgow
  • Gender: Male
  • The Ultimate RP Warrior!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: North Korea
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2010, 12:45:27 PM »
North Korea would be mad to start a war.  Do they not realise how many countries would be against them?

Offline MuninnTopic starter

Re: North Korea
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2010, 12:54:35 PM »
North Korea would be mad to start a war.  Do they not realise how many countries would be against them?

Oh I agree, Stan, but they can still do a hell of a lot of damage before they are stopped (Soul is very close to the border I believe and if the North has some decent firepower they can lay into it pretty hard) and invading would be extremely difficult - what with the citizens being essentially brain-washed to follow their glorious leader to their grave. Also, their leader is off his rocker anyways, so if they do declare war it wouldn't be too surprising.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 12:56:20 PM by Muninn »

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: North Korea
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2010, 02:08:31 PM »
Oh I agree, Stan, but they can still do a hell of a lot of damage before they are stopped (Soul is very close to the border I believe and if the North has some decent firepower they can lay into it pretty hard) and invading would be extremely difficult - what with the citizens being essentially brain-washed to follow their glorious leader to their grave. Also, their leader is off his rocker anyways, so if they do declare war it wouldn't be too surprising.

South Korea is in a bad spot. Seoul has been zeroed out by North Korean artillery YEARS ago. Add in the fact that I'm willing to Kim Jong Il is going to hammer the Japanese on the way out (the Japanese/Koreans have been at each others throats for centuries.. Japanese metallurgy was helped by the kidnapping of Korean artisans way back when). He's already show he can put a missile pretty much anywhere in the main islands when he tested his missiles back in the 90s (if I recall right.. he put a pair in the ocean on the other side of Japan).

He's a CERTIFIABLE nutjob who I'm willing to be has had anyone that remotely resembles a threat to him internally in the ground and the only country he really has to worry about is to the north. The Chinese are the only folks who can roll over his army quickly, the rest of us are out numbered and would require a long protracted fight to stop. (and at a cost to South Korea, and possibly Japan, that can be described as catastrophic).

The man has literally starved his people to death and I'm sure if he dies anyway besides a quick dropping dead on the spot that he's quite likely to try and take a BUNCH of folks with him on the way out.

I'm willing to bet there is a department somewhere in Seoul that is trying to figure out how they can help rebuild the North when he finally shuffles off the mortal coil and the North Korean government implode economically. It's not 'if' but 'when'. This year, or ten down the line.

Offline alxnjsh

Re: North Korea
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2010, 03:15:06 PM »
The U.S. will once again step in and do what the U.N. should be doing. It's time for North Korea to be shown the light - Kim Jong Il's repressive regime will hopefully come to an end in my lifetime.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: North Korea
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2010, 03:34:19 PM »
The U.S. will once again step in and do what the U.N. should be doing. It's time for North Korea to be shown the light - Kim Jong Il's repressive regime will hopefully come to an end in my lifetime.

With what? We're downsized to the point we'd not be able to do much (short of tactical weapons) if he rolled south on us.

The miliarty is already over extended.

Offline MuninnTopic starter

Re: North Korea
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2010, 07:11:37 AM »
South Korea is in a bad spot. Seoul has been zeroed out by North Korean artillery YEARS ago. Add in the fact that I'm willing to Kim Jong Il is going to hammer the Japanese on the way out (the Japanese/Koreans have been at each others throats for centuries.. Japanese metallurgy was helped by the kidnapping of Korean artisans way back when). He's already show he can put a missile pretty much anywhere in the main islands when he tested his missiles back in the 90s (if I recall right.. he put a pair in the ocean on the other side of Japan).

He's a CERTIFIABLE nutjob who I'm willing to be has had anyone that remotely resembles a threat to him internally in the ground and the only country he really has to worry about is to the north. The Chinese are the only folks who can roll over his army quickly, the rest of us are out numbered and would require a long protracted fight to stop. (and at a cost to South Korea, and possibly Japan, that can be described as catastrophic).

The man has literally starved his people to death and I'm sure if he dies anyway besides a quick dropping dead on the spot that he's quite likely to try and take a BUNCH of folks with him on the way out.

I'm willing to bet there is a department somewhere in Seoul that is trying to figure out how they can help rebuild the North when he finally shuffles off the mortal coil and the North Korean government implode economically. It's not 'if' but 'when'. This year, or ten down the line.

Yeah, Korea and Japan have a loooot of tension and that is mostly Japan's fault.  Love the country and its people but they are a racist lot.  The city I am currently living in was actually firebombed to the ground during the war and was rebuilt (its ugly IMHO).  To keep the people's spirits up they started to plant roses and now they have a rose festival every year (ended just last weekend).  I don't even wanna think what would happen if North Korea tried to do something... 

For right now it seems that China is trying not to take sides and being the big brother here, trying to keep the two from going at each other's throats.  We'll see how that works...

My Chinese friend's uncle is a violinist and he and his troupe ended up being invited into the North (likely to perform for Kim Jong Il himself) and one thing he noted or interest: the streets are essentially devoid of trash.  There is nothing because his people have nothing.  And while his people starve millions are spent on flippin' FIREWORKS for his birthday.  >:(

As for Kim Jong Il's sanity - I think anyone who places THEMSELF as a friggin' GOD and savior of his country and brainwashes his people to believe that has got to have more than a few screws loose.

Offline general9991824

Re: North Korea
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2010, 08:02:25 AM »
I have to agree that Kim Jong Il is pretty much batshit crazy at this point.  Which means logic might not have anything to do with his decision process. 

From what I've seen, DPRK has three big threats it can throw at ROK and Japan: a large contingent of special forces, overwhelming artillery capability, and big brother China. 

The North has proven several times in the past that it is capable of infiltrating the South with commando forces, and if things go hot, you can expect to see thousands popping up behind the main lines and causing chaos to the civilian population.  The South then has the tough choice of letting them go nuts and accept high civilian casualties, or diverting troops from the front lines. 

The next immediate threat is the huge artillery contingent the North has within range of Seoul.  While the equipment dates back to the 60's or 70's, most of the world's advancement in the last 50 years has been in accuracy.  However, if you're terror shelling a large city, accuracy doesn't matter too much.  Throw on top of that the fact that most of the cannons are stored in hardened bunkers, and counterattack becomes very difficult. 

The third big problem is China.  If the South and their allies could fight the North in a vacuum, they could bring their big guns to bear.  Heavy shelling of Seoul would be met with a nuclear counter attack or at the least heavy bombing.  However if things get too hot on the North, China will step in to prevent a flood of refugees coming across the Yalu. 

As much as Iíd like to see the North taken out, a military conflict is a net loss for everyone.  It sucks, but committing millions of Koreans (on both sides) to death to avenge the lives of less than 50 sailors isnít logical. 

I think at this point the best shot is to exert as much pressure as possible on the North and China.  If Beijing is embarrassed enough by their crazy neighbor they may either pull back on their aid, or possibly eliminate him themselves.  Hopefully Kimís son will be a little more pragmatic.  If he plays his cards right, he could transition from the isolated crazy person his father was to the forward thinking leader that pulled his people closer to Chinaís system. 

Offline alxnjsh

Re: North Korea
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2010, 11:42:41 AM »
With what? We're downsized to the point we'd not be able to do much (short of tactical weapons) if he rolled south on us.

The miliarty is already over extended.

It would require strategic redeployment. We spend 10 times more on our military than the next closest nation. North Korea is a tiny country and we've learned a lot tactically since Vietnam. I'm an extreme pacifist, but frankly I'm also completely against repressive regimes.

Offline Rayne

Re: North Korea
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2010, 11:49:35 AM »
I thought that Kim's son was even more insane than his dad, or at least much along the same lines. XP
Anyways, I'm not much for war either, but I totally think somebody needs to assassinate the guy or take out his entire regime. I mean, he's like a child throwing a tantrum, but with access to weapons. I'm sorry, but that just isn't something that should happen. Every time I read about this stuff I want to laugh because its so absolutely insane, except its scary too because since nobody wants to kill civilians this one tiny nation still has power to threaten and do whatever they'd like right now. At some point, Kim Jong Il is going to cross a line where we'll have to stop him and get him removed from power, one way or another. And that day's gonna suck when it comes.

Offline GeekFury

Re: North Korea
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2010, 12:26:26 PM »
So we might have a legitimate war this time, theres a novel first, last one was WW2 right?

Offline Zakharra

Re: North Korea
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2010, 12:58:29 PM »

The third big problem is China.  If the South and their allies could fight the North in a vacuum, they could bring their big guns to bear.  Heavy shelling of Seoul would be met with a nuclear counter attack or at the least heavy bombing.  However if things get too hot on the North, China will step in to prevent a flood of refugees coming across the Yalu. 

As much as Iíd like to see the North taken out, a military conflict is a net loss for everyone.  It sucks, but committing millions of Koreans (on both sides) to death to avenge the lives of less than 50 sailors isnít logical. 

I think at this point the best shot is to exert as much pressure as possible on the North and China.  If Beijing is embarrassed enough by their crazy neighbor they may either pull back on their aid, or possibly eliminate him themselves.  Hopefully Kimís son will be a little more pragmatic.  If he plays his cards right, he could transition from the isolated crazy person his father was to the forward thinking leader that pulled his people closer to Chinaís system.

 That. It all revolves around China, but even China is under some restrants. If NK actually started something that the South couldn't ignore, it would be very hard for China to step in and say 'Don't attack NK or we will get involved.'  NK is pissing off everyone by their tactics.  Past a certain point, China would probably help 'stop' NK and just absorb what they could of the country.
 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 01:22:42 PM by Zakharra »

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: North Korea
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2010, 12:58:39 PM »
It would require strategic redeployment. We spend 10 times more on our military than the next closest nation. North Korea is a tiny country and we've learned a lot tactically since Vietnam. I'm an extreme pacifist, but frankly I'm also completely against repressive regimes.

With what? In the time I was in service I saw something like four or five carriers go out of service, three whole aircraft platforms go out (That was something like 30 squadrons of aircraft). The other platforms I worked on were downsized and the overall size of the navy has dropped something like 20 to 30%.

We are only holding on in the gulf because the two locations were fighting in are fairly close. Afganistan and Iraq wouldn't be doable otherwise.

The reduction of the Navy is a key reason we can't handle the problem with Somalian Pirates.

Where are we going to get the several hundred thousand men it would require to put the fight to the ground if North Korea went south in a big way? I can't think of anyway we could commit to our treaty promises.

China will be the one who has to step in..and they'll only do that in return for MASSIVE concessions.

Offline Phaia

Re: North Korea
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2010, 02:52:02 PM »


I do not know if everyone realizes this but the view of North Korea is that they are STILL at war with the US and the 'traitors of the South' ROK.

Thier goal is to reunitified all of Korea and they are prepared to wage TOTAL WAR!

http://www.rense.com/general37/nkorr.htm

It is also believed that North Korea has several Nuclear weapons.

Yes! I belive we will see a war with North Korea again....to them its about timing..if they ever feel they can force the US to back completely down after destoring our force in the south. Then expect them to launch!!

Phaia

Offline Brandon

Re: North Korea
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2010, 03:13:08 PM »
Any kind of military action by the US just isnt possible at this point in time. Our military just isnt ready, they need time to prepare, physically, mentally, and logistically before they can fight in any conflict again, even short term ones and Im sorry but any invasion/warfare in North Korea will be a long term conflict lasting years. Probably even a decade or longer unless we get extremely lucky or have a lot of allies. If we took a purely supportive role I think we would be alright but that wont happen. The US is far to arrogant for that and I fear that a lot of soldiers will needlessly loose their lives because of that arrogance

I'll agree that from how the media reports the actions of North Korea and its leader I think the entire regime are a bunch of nut jobs but then I have to keep in mind that I dont know the people. Its far to easy to demonize people that are made out to be monsters without questioning the source.


Offline MuninnTopic starter

Re: North Korea
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2010, 06:48:32 PM »
  Hopefully Kimís son will be a little more pragmatic.  If he plays his cards right, he could transition from the isolated crazy person his father was to the forward thinking leader that pulled his people closer to Chinaís system.
One can hope, but apparently he is "just like his father."  At least he questions the lavish lifestyle they live while the common people suffer.  That's a start, at least.

I'll agree that from how the media reports the actions of North Korea and its leader I think the entire regime are a bunch of nut jobs but then I have to keep in mind that I dont know the people. Its far to easy to demonize people that are made out to be monsters without questioning the source.
Sadly they have had decades and multiple generations brainwashed to believe their Dear Leader is not only right and wonderful but a god amongst men and that the US and other outside countries are evil.  Here's a good article on someone who visited Pyongyang:

Welcome to North Korea - a backward and brainwashed nation

So if we or the world were to try and invade we'd be in for one hell of a fight. Their people are ingrained to believe the "US Imperialist Aggressors" will do terrible and atrocious things - kill babies, burn the countryside, rape women, etc.  They may be poor and starved but if they're faced against an enemy they consider the devil himself... it won't be pretty.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 06:53:39 PM by Muninn »

Offline Brandon

Re: North Korea
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2010, 07:22:32 PM »
While that article could be spot on the title "North Korea - a backwards and brainwashed nation" makes me wonder about its authenticity. Another thing that calls it into suspect is the author mentions no good points in the entire article. A place may be the worst place imaginable to live in but youre always going to find good things somewhere.

Once again, the media could be 100% accurate, but how do we know it is without going there ourselves? Its possible that we (or even both us and the North Korean's) are being fed propaganda. 

Offline Rayne

Re: North Korea
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2010, 07:29:09 PM »
While that article could be spot on the title "North Korea - a backwards and brainwashed nation" makes me wonder about its authenticity. Another thing that calls it into suspect is the author mentions no good points in the entire article. A place may be the worst place imaginable to live in but youre always going to find good things somewhere.

Once again, the media could be 100% accurate, but how do we know it is without going there ourselves? Its possible that we (or even both us and the North Korean's) are being fed propaganda. 

Still, there's some truth in every biased opinion, no matter how small. Even if its not totally true, just partially means that they'll still fight for Kim Jong Il and not us, and when the people there don't want help, that'll make things difficult.

Offline Brandon

Re: North Korea
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2010, 07:48:10 PM »
Still, there's some truth in every biased opinion, no matter how small. Even if its not totally true, just partially means that they'll still fight for Kim Jong Il and not us, and when the people there don't want help, that'll make things difficult.

Youre right about that if war did break out, and I hope it never does, the militaries involved would probably have to fight civilians as well as the military. It would be the same if the US was invaded, except we would be way better armed thanks to the "right to carry arms"

Offline Noelle

Re: North Korea
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2010, 12:48:24 PM »
While that article could be spot on the title "North Korea - a backwards and brainwashed nation" makes me wonder about its authenticity. Another thing that calls it into suspect is the author mentions no good points in the entire article. A place may be the worst place imaginable to live in but youre always going to find good things somewhere.

Once again, the media could be 100% accurate, but how do we know it is without going there ourselves? Its possible that we (or even both us and the North Korean's) are being fed propaganda.

You might find these videos to be of some use.

And let's be real here -- the article isn't about tourism. They're not aiming to attract people to visit North Korea.
Let's say I'm writing a piece about Sudan. For example:

Sudan is a very tumultuous, dangerous country. The degree of risk for catching a multitude of diseases is very high due to very poor water quality and living standards, and has a history of ongoing violence and genocide, as well as a significant human trafficking network. UN peacekeeping troops have had severe difficulties in maintaining control, and thus makes the country very dangerous for travelers. Many Sudanese civilians do not have proper access to clean resources or an adequate amount of food, and thus, many starve or succumb to disease...
BUT HEY, look on the bright side, I hear there's a really nice lake in the south!

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: North Korea
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2010, 03:46:01 PM »
Wasn't there some rumors/talk a while back that KJI might actually be dead or crippled of a stroke, with a body double making his public appearances for him? Did that ever get fully disproved, or was it ever anything more than a fringe conspiracy theory to begin with?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: North Korea
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2010, 04:23:57 PM »
Wasn't there some rumors/talk a while back that KJI might actually be dead or crippled of a stroke, with a body double making his public appearances for him? Did that ever get fully disproved, or was it ever anything more than a fringe conspiracy theory to begin with?

The word was he was down from a stroke or another illness.  It is hard to tell if he was being doubled or not.

KJI is a bit of flake. I had seen some stuff a long while back that he and his father snatched folks from South Korea and Japan for training the spies and such.  A while back a couple was released after something like 20 years of training spies for North Korea.