Why Post Deletion Restrictions?

[impreg21]

I'm curious as to why it's against site rules to delete posts which are less than 60 days old. Not only does this not make sense in a bump evasion manner, it doesn't make sense in a request thread formatting or organisation manner, either.

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated at the rule of not being permitted to delete posts in my own request threads, which is necessary to keep the changelog and request thread itself kept clean and tidy so both myself and viewers can manage them better. As someone who dislikes messiness of keeping a million posts which are obsolete and completely unnecessary when they have been superseded, it's really putting me off continuing to use Elliquiy. I can tolerate the already overly strict rules elsewhere on the site, but this particular one is pushing me over the edge. I also have a medical condition which prevents me from being able to focus or work properly in messy environments, due to sensory issues (particularly triggering my vision issues with this rule when I'm having to manage obsolete posts which keep growing in amount), and this is anti-accessible in this aspect.

Unfortunately, if there isn't an actually good reason for this rule, my 1.5 years of being a member of this site may be forced to come to an end, because it's not very accommodating and I'm already struggling with the overly strict rules of this site even other than this, with this one taking the cake.

[Oniya]

As the bump rule states that members may not make two unsubstantive bumps in a row (that is to say, a new post that doesn't add anything new content-wise), the 60-day window is to ensure that the last two monthly bumps remain in place.

[impreg21]

Again, it doesn't make any sense when staff can and clearly do check for deleted posts (how could they have noticed a post deleted, otherwise?). If the site isn't willing to accommodate people and their possible disabilities with being able to manage their own request threads, I can't stay here any longer.

Blue Moon Rolelplaying (which I'm sure has some of the same staff as Elliquiy) don't have such a rule, as long as new posts made after the previous one was deleted do not bump prior to the allowed time. It doesn't improve enforcement in the way you are claiming, it's just being anti-accessible for people who can't process what's on their screen when there are obsolete posts from days to weeks ago. Not everyone can or should follow the same posting or editing strategy on a website which claims to be for creative writing and expression. I find it literally impossible at this point to manage my threads, thanks to this anti-deletion rule, even if I'm not bumping those threads.

[Amaris]

So, you want the staff to have to go look for any deleted posts by everyone who has made a request in various request boards to be able to ensure rules are being followed? I feel like you're not asking for accessibility. You're asking to be catered to.

[impreg21]

You are free to think what you want. Quite frankly, the staff here have been quite hostile to me from the start, and you are free to check my latest response to a staff member in PMs; they dictated that I do something, I did it and asked a question, they ignored me. It's been weeks since that, and still no response. This entire site is so strict, it's as if I'm walking on eggshells every time I post something. To say this site is run by at least one member of BMR, it's black and white compared to that site.

As for your statement about asking to be catered to, it's nothing new to me. Being told my medical stuff is nothing but a "get out of jail free card" is nothing new to me, and you can join the list of people incorrectly assuming so. I won't be stating anything more than it being sensory issues, but if you check any other site I am a member of, or you had access to my computer's filesystem, you'd see what I'm talking about.

As from this point, whether this accessibility is added and the rule is changed or not, I will not be preserving my previous posts, only editing the current ones, and any bumps I make will immediately be deleted on creation of another bump. None of this avoids or breaks the per-week bumping rule for substantive changes to my RTs, so there shouldn't be an issue. If this is a problem, I'd rather staff just delete or ban my account here at Elliquiy, because the site is unusable to me at this point; I can't scroll through countless posts which really serve no purpose other than to distract me from my editing of the RTs and cause me sensory issues.

[Inkidu]

Again, it doesn't make any sense when staff can and clearly do check for deleted posts (how could they have noticed a post deleted, otherwise?). If the site isn't willing to accommodate people and their possible disabilities with being able to manage their own request threads, I can't stay here any longer.

Blue Moon Rolelplaying (which I'm sure has some of the same staff as Elliquiy) don't have such a rule, as long as new posts made after the previous one was deleted do not bump prior to the allowed time. It doesn't improve enforcement in the way you are claiming, it's just being anti-accessible for people who can't process what's on their screen when there are obsolete posts from days to weeks ago. Not everyone can or should follow the same posting or editing strategy on a website which claims to be for creative writing and expression. I find it literally impossible at this point to manage my threads, thanks to this anti-deletion rule, even if I'm not bumping those threads.

You can absolutely delete every post in your request thread down to the actual first I believe. You're just not allowed to make non-substantive bumps. It's unfair to everyone else because things on E generally move at a slower pace people who don't come up with new ideas all the time often rely on their request thread  staying on page 1 for a few days to get some interest checks. When people make non-substantive bumps it drives the slower paced request threads down unfairly.

[Chasing Dreams]

You can absolutely delete every post in your request thread down to the actual first I believe. You're just not allowed to make non-substantive bumps. It's unfair to everyone else because things on E generally move at a slower pace people who don't come up with new ideas all the time often rely on their request thread  staying on page 1 for a few days to get some interest checks. When people make non-substantive bumps it drives the slower paced request threads down unfairly.

Per the Request Thread Policy, members cannot delete bump posts that are not older than 60 days old.

Edit: Added in the link to the Policy.

[Inkidu]

Per the Request Thread Policy, members cannot delete bump posts that are not older than 60 days old.

Edit: Added in the link to the Policy.

Oh, ah, mine get way older than that, so I never thought about that one before.

[Chasing Dreams]

We do understand that there are members that like to keep their threads tidy, so that's why there's the 60-day rule. It allows for tidy-ish threads to a certain degree.

[impreg21]

We do understand that there are members that like to keep their threads tidy, so that's why there's the 60-day rule. It allows for tidy-ish threads to a certain degree.

It's not tidy, though; it doesn't take into account that some people modify their threads, like to keep everything noted so they know where they are and to allow viewers to know what the changes were, and cannot, for one reason or another, always by choice, wait 60 days before they can clean up their posts. I am one of those people.

Feel free to take a look at my presence elsewhere on the internet; I have a very "don't need it, don't keep it" attitude which allows me to keep my focus up and sensory issues down. Take a look at my threads and you'll see how I, a very organised person who needs everything noted even outside of writing, do things, and it is completely incompatible with a 60-day rule. There shouldn't be any rule for post deletion at all. If the forum software requires the previous post is kept in order to check the date and time the last post was made, that shouldn't prevent a new post from being made to replace it, then deletion of that previous post which is now redundant anyway since it is no longer the most recent post, resetting the bump policy to day 0.

[Inkidu]

It's not tidy, though; it doesn't take into account that some people modify their threads, like to keep everything noted so they know where they are and to allow viewers to know what the changes were, and cannot, for one reason or another, always by choice, wait 60 days before they can clean up their posts. I am one of those people.

Feel free to take a look at my presence elsewhere on the internet; I have a very "don't need it, don't keep it" attitude which allows me to keep my focus up and sensory issues down. Take a look at my threads and you'll see how I, a very organised person who needs everything noted even outside of writing, do things, and it is completely incompatible with a 60-day rule. There shouldn't be any rule for post deletion at all. If the forum software requires the previous post is kept in order to check the date and time the last post was made, that shouldn't prevent a new post from being made to replace it, then deletion of that previous post which is now redundant anyway since it is no longer the most recent post, resetting the bump policy to day 0.

Could you perhaps spoiler the offending content with the date on which it could be deleted noted to remind you when to come back and delete it?

Date of Earliest Deletion

Offending Content to be Deleted

Code Select Expand

[spoiler=Date of Earliest Deletion]Offending Content to be Deleted[/spoiler]

Could material like that be placed in its own post to minimize your viewing of it, but also remind you when it can be safely deleted. Because as far as I can tell posts can be edited and the edits not publicized as a bump. I do it all the time to fix spelling, grammar, and formatting issues.

[Oniya]

You can indeed EDIT your posts at any time.  It's bumping it to the top of the board that has restrictions.

[impreg21]

Could you perhaps spoiler the offending content with the date on which it could be deleted noted to remind you when to come back and delete it?

That's not going to help; the mere existence of a post which has been superseded is the problem.

Let me put it another way; imagine having a version of software on your computer or phone, which has an issue which is fixed in the next version update, or it has a feature added in the next version update, there is zero reason to keep the previous version around as a separate app (outside of very few cases of development, which is getting specific and pedantic at that point); the old version is simply replaced by the new version because there is no reason for the previous one to exist; it would do nothing but make it more confusing to keep track of which one you needed to open and you'd have 2 icons, 2 sets of the same thing. Now, multiple that by at least 1 per week, and throw on sensory processing issues on top of that, meaning you can't tell one from another after 2 or 3 of them. The content of the post is not the issue, it is the fact I note every change to my RTs, and my "bump" posts are mentions of the changelog being updated, which pile up until I can no longer perform modifications or read my own RT without becoming confused at all of the different version numbers.

[impreg21]

You can indeed EDIT your posts at any time.  It's bumping it to the top of the board that has restrictions.

It's not the editing which is the issue. Read my previous post in this thread for a better example of the issue. I need to note everything I do in a changelog of sorts in order to know what I've done and keep my focus in check, or it ends up with the entire thread being messed up and I can't properly understand what I've done in the past up to that point, and the more complex the thread and code becomes, the more difficult it is to process.

All changes I make to my main RT post are edits, followed by an edit in the changelog; the issue is when I add a post to mention to look at the changelog to see what I've added (which can be substantial since it's an extra plot or similar added to the main post of the thread), they all pile up and I can't keep track of many "changelog updated" posts which say the same thing on different days for different things. Every other site has no issue with allowing me to post a new bump post, then delete the previous one so I know when the last bump was and I'm not getting them all mixed up. Sometimes I also have to fix a typo in the bump posts which then adds an edited date to the posted date, making it even more difficult to understand what's going on.

[Inkidu]

It's not the editing which is the issue. Read my previous post in this thread for a better example of the issue. I need to note everything I do in a changelog of sorts in order to know what I've done and keep my focus in check, or it ends up with the entire thread being messed up and I can't properly understand what I've done in the past up to that point, and the more complex the thread and code becomes, the more difficult it is to process.

All changes I make to my main RT post are edits, followed by an edit in the changelog; the issue is when I add a post to mention to look at the changelog to see what I've added (which can be substantial since it's an extra plot or similar added to the main post of the thread), they all pile up and I can't keep track of many "changelog updated" posts which say the same thing on different days for different things. Every other site has no issue with allowing me to post a new bump post, then delete the previous one so I know when the last bump was and I'm not getting them all mixed up. Sometimes I also have to fix a typo in the bump posts which then adds an edited date to the posted date, making it even more difficult to understand what's going on.

Well... the latest bump post will always be at the bottom. It's how I run mine. My bumps act like a running changelog and I just delete a few of the older ones when my thread goes to page 2. The bumps are time and date coded. It's why I even stopped putting the date on the post specifically.

I feel like you could just edit it. Everything on the site is well-documented with time stamps. I don't myself see the need to indicate every minute detail in a new bump post. 

[impreg21]

Well... the latest bump post will always be at the bottom. It's how I run mine. My bumps act like a running changelog and I just delete a few of the older ones when my thread goes to page 2. The bumps are time and date coded. It's why I even stopped putting the date on the post specifically.

I feel like you could just edit it. Everything on the site is well-documented with time stamps.

Sure, they are datestamped/timestamped, but that doesn't change the fact the thread is cluttered and it makes it difficult to process what I'm looking at, especially with the way this forum software lays out posts in an untidy fashion.

I don't myself see the need to indicate every minute detail in a new bump post.

You might not, but other people might. Some might even need to.

[Inkidu]

Sure, they are datestamped/timestamped, but that doesn't change the fact the thread is cluttered and it makes it difficult to process what I'm looking at, especially with the way this forum software lays out posts in an untidy fashion.
You might not, but other people might. Some might even need to.

I get I've been here a long time and am used to these boards, but never have I ever thought E's boards were untidy. I feel like you're not even trying to meet anyone halfway here. Personal organization ultimately falls on the shoulders of the one who needs the organization. Just because I wish I had a bigger closet with taller racks or need more space out of a drawer doesn't mean I'm going to get it. At some point I had to learn to fold and store my clothes differently. There's a middle ground here that could accommodate you and stay within the civility rules of the site.

[Oniya]

So, here's a scenario that accomplishes a minimum of three posts at all times:

Let's say that I come up with an idea at the beginning of October.  I go to my first post and put it in, where-ever my organizational mind dictates, with the notation Added October 1.  For the sake of this example, we'll assume that this is my first request on the site.

After a few days, I come up with a new idea.  It's still too early to post a 'bump', so I edit it into my first post with the notation Added October 5.

By the beginning of November, someone's taken the first idea, I've added in a third, and it's bump time.  I edit the first post, either marking the first idea as Taken or removing it completely, add in the new idea with Added Oct 31 and make a new post:

Removed Plot1

New plots:
Plot2
Plot3

Proceed through November in a similar manner, adding new, dated plots to the first post. End of November, maybe I have three new plots and retired one for lack of interest.  December changelog:

Removed Plot3

New plots
Plot4
Plot5
Plot6

Head through December as above.  When January rolls around, I make a new post, like the two previous, and I delete the one I made at the beginning of November.  When February comes, I can delete the one I made at the beginning of December.  The first post remains tidy, with all of my active requests, and the remaining two posts serve as a rotating changelog and bump.

[Tolvo]

Could it also work to keep the log and changes as a link to an external source like Google Docs and then do all of that there with people being able to view it so you can edit and delete things at your leisure, and then when you or anyone needs to see the changes just click the link to it?

[Thesunmaid]

I have been a member for 14 years on Elliquiy and I have played and posted quite a few posts for rp ads.

The bumping policy has been in place that I know of long before I came along ( its been a while but I remembering reading and asking about the bumping policy when I first joined and it never really changed drastically in my memory) and I personally have always found the staff prompt and helpful when ever I have had to report anything or ask a question and I have found the rules reasonable.

While I am sure Blue moon is great I do prefer here because there is the questionnaire and I assure you sites that let anyone with an internet connection and an email join...the rules here are much more relaxed than some sites have to have because they do screen people who want to join. I have had very few bad experiences with people here and when I reported they were handled quickly. And the amount of bans they have had to do is tiny in comparison to another site I belong to.

The site is large and has a lot of members and and the policy while I am sure its been tweaked over the years has not changed drastically and it works...I am sure the staff would change or fix things if there were enough complaints about it or if it did not work well. They are not unreasonable and they already work hard enough for us to keep the place running smoothly with out having to keep logs of deleted posts and who and when they were deleted.

All you are doing right now is making yourself seem unreasonable and overly demanding. There are several suggestions that could probably work well for you but you seem determined to have them change the entire policy for you. I do have to agree with Amaris, you do seem to want them to cater to you.

[Thesunmaid]

Could it also work to keep the log and changes as a link to an external source like Google Docs and then do all of that there with people being able to view it so you can edit and delete things at your leisure, and then when you or anyone needs to see the changes just click the link to it?

Also thank you for this suggestion although I think I will just be keeping this for my own need to organize things for myself rather than posting. :)

[GothicFires]

I'm a disabled person. I have had physical issues since birth and they will only get worse as i get older (i'm going to be 50 on Thursday). A long time a go I even started a disabled persons thread so everyone on the site who was also disabled could have a feeling of community for those times when they were just tired. I also have some autistic traits. I'm not going to claim to have it but I am socially awkward and sometimes my brain just 'nopes' the fuck out.

So as a person with a similar background I also believe that your expectations are unreasonable. It is impossible for the world to make every concession that a disabled person needs because the needs are particular to one individual. Places, at least in America, have to make reasonable efforts in order to accommodate people. Wheel chair ramps, automatic doors, etc. When I was able to go out to restaurants I even campaigned for odorless cleaning chemicals in the bathrooms because my aunt has copd and she has had medical emergencies before triggered by those chemicals. But somethings are unreasonable. If a wheel chair bound person wants to be a cook at a restaurant there isn't a way for McDonands to safely modify their stores. i love waterfalls and there is a breathtaking one just a few hours from here but it takes hours to get to and i can only stand five minutes now. I can't expect the park to make a chairlift to the top so I can continue to see that view.

This site only has the obligation, since it is text based to have a resize function and some contrasting colors for people who are hard of seeing. Which it has. As someone who 1) never had the ability to do things the way other people do and 2) loosing the ability to do things I used to be able to do. Like putting on socks. At one point i could put on socks. I just didn't do it like everyone else. Now i have to have a device to put on socks because i can't. The point is... as a disabled person you look at the situation at hand and then find the tools and ways YOU can adjust to make it work for you. If you love writing and you have enjoyed writing with other people here then that should be enough incentive to figure it out instead of having a bad attitude towards system that has to work for hundreds of people. And trust me, I had no idea that there was a 60 day no deletion rule but then again I don't bump unless I add a new story idea.

So while i have sympathy for your condition, I don't have it for your attitude. I hope you can find a way to adjust that doesn't trigger your anxiety but you must ultimately do what is best for you in where your happiness lies. Just think upon it a little more.