Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time

[Phoenixrisen]

The opening scene in episode two was the white cloaks. What the Questioner was eating had very crunchy chick vibes.

[Haloriel]

There's an audiobook version of the first book in the series, The Eye of the World, read by Rosamund Pike. I thought I'd mention this because it's related, and listening to a sample was fantastic. She has such a pleasant voice, and I don't say that lightly!

[Envious]

Got sick of the books and stopped about half way through (wiki'd the endings to satisfy my curiosity). If I had to read one more braid tug, I was going to flip my shit.

[Flower]

I think I already have an idea of who the dragon is. Squeee! Can't wait to be proven wrong or right. 

[Azy]

I think I already have an idea of who the dragon is. Squeee! Can't wait to be proven wrong or right. 

Who do you think it is?

[Flower]

I'm leaning towards Matt.

[Azy]

I think I had a pretty good inkling toward the end of the first book, but the show is leaving stuff out I think.  It seems like 1 episode covers 3-4 chapters.   

[Wistful Dream]

I lost the book series at book ten, Crossroads like others explained. And I've never been tempted back into it. Honestly I find the show so much better than the books. The diversity, the female characters being so much more varied, and the relationships in general are profoundly improved.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Perrin's wife was an interesting choice. Pho, my spouse, who's watching with me asked if she had been in the books and when I said no his response was "They didn't give him a wife, they gave him a complex" And.... kind of agree with that.

Also, pillow friends?! That last episode was ALL the feels and I love what they did with it so damn much.

I will say...not just braid pulling but the fact that Jordan would write angry women as crossing their arms under their breasts and pushing up killed me. I'm so glad that hasn't made it into the show.

[Azy]

While the book series was pretty good if you could get through it, I do think it's better suited as a TV series.   

[HairyHeretic]

I'm not sure I like what the TV show is doing with Mat though. He was a trickster and a scoundrel, but not the outright thief (and tbh a bit of a scumbag) that the show is portraying him as. I'm hoping that will change.

[Flower]

Another lovely episode.

Episode 7

What am awesome intro. I was loving every second of badassery!!!

[Oniya]

I will say...not just braid pulling but the fact that Jordan would write angry women as crossing their arms under their breasts and pushing up killed me. I'm so glad that hasn't made it into the show.

So - while the 'here are my boobs' aspect is annoying in the descriptions, I found myself noticing that this is exactly where one's arms normally fall when crossing them naturally.  Elbows right around the waist (maybe a bit up, but not much), which tends to fall underneath the bust.  There's also the 'tuck your hands into your armpits' pose, which covers the chest area, but looks even more like a pouting five-year-old.

[Wistful Dream]

The descriptors are annoying, but also I suppose I should have factored in my own breast size. My arms don't normally fall under my breasts, it feels more awkward that way. 

[Beorning]

Okay, after watching the latest episode, I have to say it again:

How about some world-building, please???

It's so frustrating that our heroes are heading toward a confrontation with the Dark One, there's one episode of Season 1 left... and we're still not being told what the Dark One even is..!

I mean, is it a he? A she? A super-powerful and corrupt wizard? A demon? Does it have a physical form or is it a trapped spirit?

It's hard to be excited about the coming (?) confrontation, when we still don't know what exactly the heroes are going to be confronting! Aaagh!

Also - a question:

Big spoiler, I guess

Could someone explain the logic behind Rand's realization to me? Okay, so he came to think that he's the Dragon - but what's his reasoning, exactly? Yes, he found out he could channel - but so can Nyneave and Egwene... and Nyneave seems way more powerful (also, Perrin is getting weird, too). And yes, he found out that he was born at the slope of that volcano... but it's not like there's a specific prophecy about the Dragon being born there (at least, we haven't heard it...). And yes, he was told so by the Black Wind... but he knows that the Wind lies and says all kinds of things. So, what's his reasoning? What the heck, Rand?

... and what the heck, Morraine? Why did she just accept Rand's proclamation? He suddenly says "I'm the Dragon" and she's like "Great, you're obviously right, let's strike out to fight the Dark One immediately"? Weird...

[HairyHeretic]

Think of the Dark One as an incarnation of Evil.

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_One

Spoilery answers

The books go into way more detail about some stuff, one of which is the Karaethon Cycle

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Karaethon_Cycle

These are prophecies concerning The Dragon.

I think in the show Moiraine made mention of them once or twice, but the books go into more detail.

Here's the key bits that point towards Rand

On the slopes of Dragonmount shall he be born,
born of a maiden wedded to no man.
He will be of the ancient blood, and raised by the old blood

In the books, when Rand is bringing his father back to Emond's Field in the wake of the Trolloc attack, his father is delirious from the wound he took and more or less says he isn't Rand's real father, that he found a child lying in the snow after a huge battle.

At the same time the Dragon was reborn, Moiraine and Suian were novices, and were with an old Aes Sedai who had the Talent of Foretelling.

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Gitara_Moroso

She proclaimed the Dragon reborn at that moment and then dropped dead from the shock of it. They then dedicated their lives to finding him. In the books its clearly called out the Dragon is male, but that's one of the things the show has changed.

I guess the reason they haven't gone into more of that detail in the show is partly down to how they've changed things, and partly because most of the main characters aren't aware of it.

[Sethren]

So I vibe with so much of this thread so I just couldn't quote everything lol so I'll try to pick my brain and write what is most relevant.

I understand the frustration of...What's going on? Who's this? What's that! My poor fiance, whose read the books, is being driven mad by my constant questions lol. I am noticing the show really requires you to pay attention to it or you will miss things. That said, I love the show so far, I'm intrigued in reading the books myself. But like others am hesitant given the sheer volume of them and who the hell these days has time to really invest in reading, sadly.

I can see why people get a LOTR vibe off of it but frankly the concept of an unsuspecting hero in a boy, blah blah is just a 'trope' that has helped defined a type of fantasy. It unfortunately, is a chemistry that works for fantasy coming of age stories. More so than people are trying to steal the concept from LOTR.

I think the reason in the show, a lot isn't explained is because I think not a lot is truly and factually known about the dark one and the dragon. This all happened a thousand years ago. And since men aren't even really allowed to channel - use magic - without fear, judgement, superstition - and of course go insane-, a lot of old knowledge has been lost or coveted by the Aes Sedai and other groups of people with old religions. As you'll have noticed in the show, even though the Aes Sedai are mostly treated with respect, they're feared and also hated as well. So magic aka channeling is usually the stuff of 'bad things' for people. Most people keep well enough away from it on principal of just wanting to live normal lives. Even the Aes Sedai although show 'more' control over channeling, even they run the risk of burning out and killing themselves or causing destruction around them. So even woman are wary of it as you see with Nynaeve. Basically ignorance is bliss in this world.

My fiance says the show is definitely drifting from the books but he isn't bothered by it, yet. At least from what he can remember. He's started rereading the series.

I have a feeling that the Dragon is either Nynaeve or Rand. Simply because neither wants it and are really bucking against everything that is happening so far. Then there is the mystery surrounding Rand's past - that the last episode reveals a little bit of- and Nynaeve is proving to be scarily powerful. Though initially my first guess had been Matt - I hope it isn't him because he's already been touched by the darkness, the poor guy. It seems too 'easy' to be Egwene. 

I REALLY want to know what the hell is going on with Perrin and the wolves and the golden eyes! I don't feel like he's the dragon but he's definitely something what with that whole spill.

[Azy]

I do think this show is like the Harry Potter movies.  You understand more if you've read the books because they've cut things out in the interest of time, and yes, they've added some things for dramatic effect. 

[Beorning]

I watched this season's final episode. Aaagh! So exciting... and yet, still no context for what's going on...

This show is frustrating... They spent many minutes on exploring the philosophy of pacifist wanderers that appeared in a side plot - but they forgot to explain the key elements of the main conflict.

[Phoenixrisen]

I watched this season's final episode. Aaagh! So exciting... and yet, still no context for what's going on...

This show is frustrating... They spent many minutes on exploring the philosophy of pacifist wanderers that appeared in a side plot - but they forgot to explain the key elements of the main conflict.

The lack of explanation of elements that someone who hasn't read at least the first book wouldn't have is a bit troubling. Especially if it leaves folks confused, but those wandering pacifists are, at least a little, important. I haven't read the last books, and it's been a while, so I have no idea how exactly the story ends, but they do have a touch of importance.

[Wistful Dream]

I think it's actually a good way to approach it, in that, we are learning with the younger characters, as the world they knew is totally remade. I think perhaps they wanted that vibe, as I've seen it in other shows lately as well. Rather than a long info dump they let the viewer learn about the show as it goes. Particularly as they've changed some things.

[Azy]

I think it's actually a good way to approach it, in that, we are learning with the younger characters, as the world they knew is totally remade. I think perhaps they wanted that vibe, as I've seen it in other shows lately as well. Rather than a long info dump they let the viewer learn about the show as it goes. Particularly as they've changed some things.

It is that way for the most part if you read the books, if memory serves me.  The troubling thing is they are leaving things out that were in the book that helped explain what was going on.  I think they tried to add it in a bit where was it that gleeman guy who made a comment about Rand's red hair not being very common?  That's important.  While it seemed like they were going for a diverse cast, they kept Rand with red hair as he was in the book because that's important.  I believe it was mention at the very beginning of the book when he's introduced as a character that the red hair makes him stick out from everyone else.  They really nailed that home in the show, because if you noticed, everyone else has dark hair and darker skin, and then there's the tall red head. 

[Beorning]

I think it's actually a good way to approach it, in that, we are learning with the younger characters, as the world they knew is totally remade. I think perhaps they wanted that vibe, as I've seen it in other shows lately as well. Rather than a long info dump they let the viewer learn about the show as it goes.

Yeah, but... actually, I feel we are *not* learning along with the characters. Not when it comes to the key issues.

Let's take the first episode: Morraine appears in the heroes' village and goes "Doom, gloom, the Dark One is waking!". Now, there are two options there:

1. The heroes, just like the viewers, don't know who / what the Dark One is. So, with Morraine giving this warning, it'd only make sense for one of the heroes to ask: "Err, who is the Dark One, lady?". Cue: exposition, the viewers learn at least a little about the Dark One.

2. The heroes actually know who the Dark One is. It could be a common knowledge in this setting, after all. If so, then of course, the heroes won't be asking Morraine for explanations - but in that case, the show should find a way of giving some exposition another way.

Meanwhile, what the show does is option #2... but without providing any exposition for the viewers' benefit. We're not learning along with the heroes, because the heroes already seem to know the basic information about the Dark One etc. So, they don't ask questions, just act. But the show doesn't provide that info any other way - as if assuming the viewers know that information, too. But we don't know. So, we get a whole season about characters trying to stop the Dark One... without a single scene explaining who that guy actually is...

There are a few others things left unexplained like that. I.e. the trollocs - no info on what they are, where they come from etc. (even though, in one of the later episodes, the fact that they shouldn't appear in some places, but still do, suddenly becomes a plot point). Or the Fades - I think there's one single sentence of information devoted to them in the whole season, even though they are a recurring threat. Or the Whitecloaks...

Heck, there even are moments when the five young heroes explicitly don't know something - and yet, the show doesn't bother to have them ask any questions (and prompt exposition). For instance, the Black Wind encounter - when it happened, I was intrigued and wanted to learn more. And, considering the scary and confusing nature of the encounter, it'd be perfectly natural for one of the heroes to ask Morraine "What the heck was that???". Meanwhile, everybody just shrugs it off, the story moves on and the viewer is left hanging...

So, overall, I don't agree that the show is doing the "The viewers know as much as the characters" thing. Because, while watching, I was under the impression that all of the characters know more than I do. And I was left to watch the action without knowing the context...