DC: 1945 (DC Comics 1940's) [Recruiting]

[indarkestknight]

I'm definitely thinking of writing a character who lived through that dark moment, or whose perspective on both the American government and Superman/the League would be colored by their response (or lack thereof) to the American government's actions. Haven't nailed down what character yet – could be an original character, could be a Japanese character, or could be a character whose ethnicity is changed. A version of Mister Miracle, maybe?

That said, I recognize it's an uncomfortable topic, and while you mentioned wanting to take an authentic approach to the bigotry of the times, I can understand if this particular subject would be too painful/uncomfortable to want the game to grapple with.

As far as how Superman would have handled it, I get the sense from the first post that you're very interested in exploring him as a character, so I'd be more interested in what you think his response would be.

[Totoro]

I'm definitely thinking of writing a character who lived through that dark moment, or whose perspective on both the American government and Superman/the League would be colored by their response (or lack thereof) to the American government's actions. Haven't nailed down what character yet – could be an original character, could be a Japanese character, or could be a character whose ethnicity is changed. A version of Mister Miracle, maybe?

That said, I recognize it's an uncomfortable topic, and while you mentioned wanting to take an authentic approach to the bigotry of the times, I can understand if this particular subject would be too painful/uncomfortable to want the game to grapple with.

As far as how Superman would have handled it, I get the sense from the first post that you're very interested in exploring him as a character, so I'd be more interested in what you think his response would be.

I am interested in exploring Superman's nature. Given the fact this game is set directly in the aftermath of WWII there are going to be touches on difficult topics so I'm not going to shy away from it here however please be aware that the following is based on cursory research only and that it's all through the lens of a fictional universe in which superheroes were involved in these events. Some of this will absolve Clark of sin but it is no way intended to absolve those who gave those orders/carried them out of it - the events were obviously an absolute tragedy.

Superman would have been extremely upset by it however at the time of Pearl Harbour he would have been involved in the war for around half a year at most, maybe. He would have been just twenty years old trying to come to terms with becoming a soldier/war hero. Considering his sheer speed he would've been present across countless battlefields near-constantly experiencing war and seeing things that nobody - least of all someone barely out of their teens from a sheltered small town - should see on an extreme scale.

So, while if he was older or more established he would have put his foot down he would have been 5000 miles away fighting in Europe and likely unable to do more than be upset when he learned the extent of it. (Which I am under the loose impression was hardly that well-publicized anyway and hardly the sort of thing you want to explain to the most powerful military asset in the world who is known to be extremely morally conscious.)

The League would not have been formed at the time and so they had nothing to do with it - certainly couldn't really be blamed for it. The League is a thing that got formed post-war when the heroes all returned. In early 1942 when that happened there would have been metahumans but they would have been almost like unpaid mercenaries fighting on the side of the allies listening to requests for where they were needed. Considering 1942 is also when Zod arrived and the fighting turned to more of a brutal challenge even for metahumans they definitely wouldn't have had much time to spare.

Another consideration is that many villains (Or at least villains to be/syndicate members to be) were on the side of the allies. Plenty of them may have encouraged that order to be given for all sorts of reasons and they are more likely to think to play political games than someone like a 20 year old version of Superman would be.

After the fact it's something Superman would probably have publicly decried and he would call for a stop to any kind of racial hatred, citing that it's racial hatred elsewhere that led to the second world war and that it is always absolutely unacceptable.

I do think it's possible that the different circumstances of the Japanese surrender may have actually led to more bad blood from an American perspective. There were no bombs dropped and I would imagine at least a vocal minority would have called for Captain Atom to cause a detonation in Japan as 'payback'.

In shorter summary:
-> Clark wouldn't have done much but he was very young, very new to heroics and probably barely informed while fighting in Europe.
-> League were not formed at the time so hard to blame them.
-> Could certainly see blame being levelled at the American government and/or public.
-> I think that kind of emotional struggle would be interesting. I like characters who are fighting for a public they maybe don't like and/or trust.

[BlueOrange]

Oh bloody hell Totoro, why do you have to keep on coming up with good ideas that attract good writers?

No ideas at present, but I’m keeping an eye on this.

[Nowherewoman]

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

I am interested in exploring Superman's nature. Given the fact this game is set directly in the aftermath of WWII there are going to be touches on difficult topics so I'm not going to shy away from it here however please be aware that the following is based on cursory research only and that it's all through the lens of a fictional universe in which superheroes were involved in these events. Some of this will absolve Clark of sin but it is no way intended to absolve those who gave those orders/carried them out of it - the events were obviously an absolute tragedy.

Superman would have been extremely upset by it however at the time of Pearl Harbour he would have been involved in the war for around half a year at most, maybe. He would have been just twenty years old trying to come to terms with becoming a soldier/war hero. Considering his sheer speed he would've been present across countless battlefields near-constantly experiencing war and seeing things that nobody - least of all someone barely out of their teens from a sheltered small town - should see on an extreme scale.

So, while if he was older or more established he would have put his foot down he would have been 5000 miles away fighting in Europe and likely unable to do more than be upset when he learned the extent of it. (Which I am under the loose impression was hardly that well-publicized anyway and hardly the sort of thing you want to explain to the most powerful military asset in the world who is known to be extremely morally conscious.)

The League would not have been formed at the time and so they had nothing to do with it - certainly couldn't really be blamed for it. The League is a thing that got formed post-war when the heroes all returned. In early 1942 when that happened there would have been metahumans but they would have been almost like unpaid mercenaries fighting on the side of the allies listening to requests for where they were needed. Considering 1942 is also when Zod arrived and the fighting turned to more of a brutal challenge even for metahumans they definitely wouldn't have had much time to spare.

Another consideration is that many villains (Or at least villains to be/syndicate members to be) were on the side of the allies. Plenty of them may have encouraged that order to be given for all sorts of reasons and they are more likely to think to play political games than someone like a 20 year old version of Superman would be.

After the fact it's something Superman would probably have publicly decried and he would call for a stop to any kind of racial hatred, citing that it's racial hatred elsewhere that led to the second world war and that it is always absolutely unacceptable.

I do think it's possible that the different circumstances of the Japanese surrender may have actually led to more bad blood from an American perspective. There were no bombs dropped and I would imagine at least a vocal minority would have called for Captain Atom to cause a detonation in Japan as 'payback'.

In shorter summary:
-> Clark wouldn't have done much but he was very young, very new to heroics and probably barely informed while fighting in Europe.
-> League were not formed at the time so hard to blame them.
-> Could certainly see blame being levelled at the American government and/or public.
-> I think that kind of emotional struggle would be interesting. I like characters who are fighting for a public they maybe don't like and/or trust.

This plays into my vision of Talia. My thinking ATM is that the League of Assassins/Demon fought the Reich primarily to keep them away from the Lazarus Pit. Talia, finding the Nazis' brutality revolting, went further, aiding partisans in N. Africa, and possibly providing intelligence to Montgomery's forces. In the process, she pissed off her father. Again.

Later, she became disillusioned by the nuking of Japan, and learning of the internment camps, seeing them as no better than thing the Reich did, which kind of killed her support for the Allies.  At the moment, she's happy to play both sides (League and Syndicate), though whether to keep  a balance of power between them or to further Ra's' agenda by setting them at each other's throats isn't entirely clear, even to herself. She'd be inclined to be mildly sympathetic towards anyone who had suffered through the camps first-hand.

[Totoro]

Oh bloody hell Totoro, why do you have to keep on coming up with good ideas that attract good writers?

No ideas at present, but I’m keeping an eye on this.

I'm an ideas person! Gotta make up for all my glaring flaws somehow.

This plays into my vision of Talia. My thinking ATM is that the league of Assassins fought the Reich primarily to keep them away from the Lazarus Pit. Talia, finding the Nazis' brutality revolting, went further, aiding partisans in N. Africa, and possibly providing intelligence to Montgomery's forces. In the process, she pissed off her father. Again.

Later, she became disillusioned by the nuking of Japan, and learning of the internment camps, seeing them as no better than thing the Reich did, which kind of killed her support for the Allies.  At the moment, she's happy to play both sides (League and Syndicate), though whether to keep  a balance of power between them or to further Ra's' agenda by setting them at each other's throats isn't entirely clear, even to herself. She'd be inclined to be mildly sympathetic towards anyone who had suffered through the camps first-hand.

I think it makes sense that the league would fight the Reich. As bad as they are I think they would see that a Nazi regime would be a fairly large problem for their machinations.

No nuking of Japan! A hero called Captain Atom (Loosely similar to Dr. Manhattan if you are familiar with Watchmen? He will be getting an NPC sheet that elaborates but he can create a nuclear detonation at will, pretty much) set off a 'warning shot' nuclear blast in the sea near-ish Japan and the U.S. basically said 'Surrender or he nukes a city every hour until you do' so Japan surrendered without actually being bombed. (Albeit still under the threat of it.)

That said her ending up neutral still seems to make sense and it's not like Captain Atom just went away. The U.S. army still has a walking nuclear weapon who everyone is pretty sure would have used his powers unless someone like Superman decided to stop him and nobody did intervene when he blew up part of the ocean. (Perhaps they thought that forcing the surrender was the right thing to do, perhaps they would have done something if he actually went to attack a city but nobody can really confirm either way.)

[Nowherewoman]

Hmmm. OK, need to rethink a bit, but the basic thread is the same. Nazis bad, Allies not that much better. Especially the Soviets. Though she might approve, in principle, of a planned economy/ecology, as being a better way to achieve her father's goals without, you know.  A worldwide murderfest...

[Totoro]

Hmmm. OK, need to rethink a bit, but the basic thread is the same. Nazis bad, Allies not that much better. Especially the Soviets. Though she might approve, in principle, of a planned economy/ecology, as being a better way to achieve her father's goals without, you know.  A worldwide murderfest...

Yeah I think the fear of the allies could easily come from their continued experiments with government metahumans like Captain Atom and Damage (Who will also be getting an NPC sheet) coupled with the fact plenty of villains fought on their side. During the invasion of Germany during the latter part of the war there would have been people like Black Adam obliterating pretty much everything in their way. Regardless of the foe that war became a massacre after Zod and the other Kryptonians died.

Ra's Al Ghul is one I might make an NPC. I didn't want to take too many but thinking about it he is relevant for so many backstories both heroes and villains that it might be nice to just have him firmly established.

[BlueOrange]

I'm an ideas person! Gotta make up for all my glaring flaws somehow.

You’re not just an ideas person. You’re an effective implementation person, too.

The potential political/historical sophistication of this game appeals. There were definitely good Germans during WW2, and the question of whether there were good members of the NSDAP is one that is debatable.

I’m thinking now about Doenitz and Rommel, and their (hypothetical) super-powered analogues. Elite professionals who sincerely believed that Germany’s survival was being threatened, and who admired (at least at first) Hitler’s ability to unify the German people and lift them out of their demoralized state.

I don’t think I want to explore that concept any further without first understanding how acceptable the exploration would be.

[Totoro]

You’re not just an ideas person. You’re an effective implementation person, too.

The potential political/historical sophistication of this game appeals. There were definitely good Germans during WW2, and the question of whether there were good members of the NSDAP is one that is debatable.

I’m thinking now about Doenitz and Rommel, and their (hypothetical) super-powered analogues. Elite professionals who sincerely believed that Germany’s survival was being threatened, and who admired (at least at first) Hitler’s ability to unify the German people and lift them out of their demoralized state.

I don’t think I want to explore that concept any further without first understanding how acceptable the exploration would be.

Unfortunately pretty much 0% as per:

"Nazis: Don't make a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer. The only villains who joined the Nazis were Zod and the Phantom Zone Kryptonians, who are dead."

If a character was/is or will become a Nazi they don't belong in this game. I'm not even allowing them as player characters as villains, let alone as heroes.

[BlueOrange]

Makes sense. Will see if something else comes up.

[Nowherewoman]

A Soviet meta might give you some of the same conflicted political edge. Just as a thought, BlueO

[BlueOrange]

A Soviet meta might give you some of the same conflicted political edge. Just as a thought, BlueO

Ahhh. Yes. Someone who was part of Trotsky’s faction, perhaps.

[Nowherewoman]

Or even your average Comrade Ivan, who was changed somehow. A patriot and soldier, but one who is VERY aware of the failures and betrayals of the Stalinist regime.

Just spitballing here.

[BlueOrange]

Actually, I think the stuff I want to explore needs to be aligned with the Axis. But a Japanese character could work. The challenge there is that my understanding of Japan is at its weakest around WW2. And the modern Japanese psyche is profoundly influenced by the fact that they are the only nation that was nuked in an act of war. So my understanding of contemporary Japan becomes a mixed blessing.

Is the American occupation taking place?

[Totoro]

Japanese characters are definitely allowed however I do just want to be clear that I would be cautious of creating a character who is a war criminal particularly if they were in a position of command issuing those kinds of orders. If nothing else they will probably struggle for connections with various characters who'd probably kill them on sight. I can't imagine the League/US Government allowing a high-level Axis commanding officer or politician on their soil and this game will be set in America (Going broader than that will just mean nobody ever gets near anyone else.)

Yes, still an allied occupation of Japan similar to the real one.

While Japan was not hit by a nuclear bomb they did have a nuclear detonation set off just off their coastline. They were still 'heartbeats away from it' and were forced into surrender by nuclear weaponry. (Albeit in the form of a man - if Captain Atom still counts as a man.)

[BlueOrange]

*nods*

Yeah, I was never thinking of taking it all the way to 'war criminal'.  I'm looking for 'fundamentally good person who happened to be on the wrong side' and therefore needs to reconcile 'fundamentally good' with 'wrong side'.

One thing that Japan did before and after WW2 was be fascinated with the major imperial nations of the time, and make an active effort to understand their success.  If MC were fascinated with America's success, they might then attempt to join the Justice League.

[Totoro]

*nods*

Yeah, I was never thinking of taking it all the way to 'war criminal'.  I'm looking for 'fundamentally good person who happened to be on the wrong side' and therefore needs to reconcile 'fundamentally good' with 'wrong side'.

One thing that Japan did before and after WW2 was be fascinated with the major imperial nations of the time, and make an active effort to understand their success.  If MC were fascinated with America's success, they might then attempt to join the Justice League.

I can stomach fundamentally good but on the wrong side provided they were not too high up on the wrong side. I think the capacity to forgive is hard to find but it's very, very hard to find if they were one of those giving orders. Also considerably easier in terms of Japan vs. trying to defend Nazis.

To be clear there is no actual Justice League here it's just 'The League'. I've created two super-broad teams just to try to get a bunch of different characters all under one banner with the idea being that in-universe these teams would be precursors to others.

[BlueOrange]

Awesome, thanks.

So, someone whose role was tactical in nature, and served with the Navy in attacks on Allied shipping?  (Has had a costume change since, and is profoundly uncomfortable about Pearl Harbor?)

Perhaps someone with divine wind powers.

[Totoro]

Awesome, thanks.

So, someone whose role was tactical in nature, and served with the Navy in attacks on Allied shipping?  (Has had a costume change since, and is profoundly uncomfortable about Pearl Harbor?)

Perhaps someone with divine wind powers.

If they are an OC their powers need to be somewhat rooted in DC. In that there are already established methods of divine power sources and they need to make sense with those.

Japanese navy is fine and I think it's interesting if they are stuck hiding a large part of their former life.

[indarkestknight]

There's a Super Friends only aerokinetic character named Samurai who never got a lot of development but could be used as the basis for a Japanese character with a "divine wind" theme. He also inspired the later character Wind Dragon from the Justice League Unlimited animated series, who could also serve as a basis for such a character.

[Totoro]

There's a Super Friends only aerokinetic character named Samurai who never got a lot of development but could be used as the basis for a Japanese character with a "divine wind" theme. He also inspired the later character Wind Dragon from the Justice League Unlimited animated series, who could also serve as a basis for such a character.

These work.

I do wanna be clear that you have a fair bit of leeway with characters here - even more so with those who aren't super firmly established. Unless the alterations are so extreme that they are no longer remotely recognizable as even a version of a character they're probably good.

Only exception is doing gender/race changes when there's already a suitable alternative or when the gender/race is really important to a character.

[Kadigan]

The greatest of gender swaps

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

[BlueOrange]

I might lean on the group for support when it comes to the design of the powers, definitely not my expertise.

So, can anyone help me with powers that would go with this background, and any tweaks needed to make it work?

Kaiyoo Aiko (beloved girl of the ocean) was born in 1925 to a deeply religious shinto family, and was blessed with [storm/weather powers] by Susanowo (Japanese god of the sea and storms) at a young age.  (She may have been trained.)

In 1941, at 16, she joined the attack on Pearl Harbor, having been convinced that Japanese independence was threatened by American imperialism.  She remained an active participant in Imperial Japanese Navy operations until the end of the war.  When the 'warning shot' nuclear attack was made, she was on an independent (solo) patrol roughly 100 miles away.  Had she chosen a different path that day, she might have been in a position where could have tried to prevent the attack.  As it was, her first knowledge of the attack was a flash from over the horizon, and the rising of a mushroom cloud.

(While I was writing that, I note with gratitude that there's a canon character called Samurai.  Perhaps the simplest path forward is to claim his powers.  But I'd rather go with an OC, I get very paranoid if I try to write a canon character.)

Humiliated, she requested permission to commit suicide from the imperial family; her request was denied.  Abandoning the white and red she had worn when fighting alongside the navy, she began taking many solitary flights over the Pacific Ocean.  During one of these flights, she assisted [American hero] in [saving the lives of some innocent people]. At this point, it became clear to her that the cause of friendship and understanding was more important than national interests.  Perhaps service to the people she had wronged would provide an opportunity for redemption.

[Totoro]

I might lean on the group for support when it comes to the design of the powers, definitely not my expertise.

So, can anyone help me with powers that would go with this background, and any tweaks needed to make it work?

Kaiyoo Aiko (beloved girl of the ocean) was born in 1925 to a deeply religious shinto family, and was blessed with [storm/weather powers] by Susanowo (Japanese god of the sea and storms) at a young age.  (She may have been trained.)

In 1941, at 16, she joined the attack on Pearl Harbor, having been convinced that Japanese independence was threatened by American imperialism.  She remained an active participant in Imperial Japanese Navy operations until the end of the war.  When the 'warning shot' nuclear attack was made, she was on an independent (solo) patrol roughly 100 miles away.  Had she chosen a different path that day, she might have been in a position where could have tried to prevent the attack.  As it was, her first knowledge of the attack was a flash from over the horizon, and the rising of a mushroom cloud.

(While I was writing that, I note with gratitude that there's a canon character called Samurai.  Perhaps the simplest path forward is to claim his powers.  But I'd rather go with an OC, I get very paranoid if I try to write a canon character.)

Humiliated, she requested permission to commit suicide from the imperial family; her request was denied.  Abandoning the white and red she had worn when fighting alongside the navy, she began taking many solitary flights over the Pacific Ocean.  During one of these flights, she assisted [American hero] in [saving the lives of some innocent people]. At this point, it became clear to her that the cause of friendship and understanding was more important than national interests.  Perhaps service to the people she had wronged would provide an opportunity for redemption.

Mercifully "Susano-o-no-Mikoto" is a canonical God in DC comics already based on the power source you mentioned and so it's more than possible to use a blessing from him as a source of power. Just need a reason why her but frankly DC gods tend to fling around blessings pretty willingly so that shouldn't be too hard to swing.

[BlueOrange]

Mercifully "Susano-o-no-Mikoto" is a canonical God in DC comics already based on the power source you mentioned and so it's more than possible to use a blessing from him as a source of power. Just need a reason why her but frankly DC gods tend to fling around blessings pretty willingly so that shouldn't be too hard to swing.

Yay!

I was thinking that her parents were the keepers of a shrine to Susano, and maybe they prayed really hard, and Susano was in a blessing-granting mood.  I'd like for her to be quite religious, and as I read up on Susano (in Japanese myth, not DC canon, no idea how to find my way into the DC canon), he turns out to be a patron of love and marriage.  He's a very fitting deity, who protects against disease and pestilence with purifying rain, and who loses his temper and causes devastating floods.

Looking up Samurai, I find this:

In addition to controlling wind, Samurai can also call upon other abilities he learned during his years of training in the ancient arts[clarification needed]. He invokes them by speaking a phrase in Japanese:

    Kaze no Yō ni Hayaku (風のように早く) — The most frequently used of Samurai's powers. All of Samurai's body (except sometimes his head) becomes a powerful tornadic wind that allows him to travel at superspeed and use his winds to pick up objects or blow them around. In later episodes of the series, he would frequently appear with only his lower body transformed into a tornado. The phrase translates to "swift as the wind," and may be a reference to one line of the Fūrinkazan, the battle standard used by the Sengoku period daimyō Takeda Shingen.
    Tōmei Ningen (透明人間) — This allows Samurai to turn invisible. The phrase translates to "transparent man/human".
    Igo Moen (囲碁もえん) — Only used once or twice throughout the series (Journey Into Blackness), Samurai engulfs himself in flames. The first half of the phrase is not proper Japanese, but the second half can be read as "great fire/flame".
    Hi ga Moe (火が燃え) - Also used only twice.[1] This allows Samurai to cast illusions in order to fool an enemy. Both times, he created the illusion of fire to frighten his captors.

Of those, Kaze no Yo ni Hayaku (which seems like a very cumbersome fomulation, "Kaze Hayaku"/"Wind Speed" seems more like a Japanese way of communicating the same meaning) makes perfect sense and seems very thematic.  The other powers don't make sense to me and I'd rather not have them for Aiko.  (It reads as 'random cool shit that might conceivably be Japanese' to me.)

How would you feel about 'can summon rain' and 'has a rope that establishes a telepathic link between two people if you tie their wrists together' (like a shinto wedding ceremony).  The nature of the telepathic link is that it enables perfect cooperation between the linked persons (except if they're not getting along, in which case it makes the masculine party lose their temper, and makes the feminine party try to hide from them). The rope might create a permanent telepathic bond if used as part of a shinto wedding ceremony.