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Author Topic: 'Void + Void = No Void'  (Read 1451 times)

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Offline DallasTopic starter

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'Void + Void = No Void'
« on: May 09, 2019, 01:52:23 PM »
Wanted to try my hand at a story theme that can perhaps make a nod to some intriguing scientific theories. Currently trying my hand at something like a "Void/Abyss/Paradox versus Void/Abyss/Paradox" that somehow consume or undo each other. Or perhaps they consume each other into nothingness, or a "void beyond a void". But I keep coming up short. The problem split in two, joining together as one in some fashion and (somehow) resolving itself.

Another comparison where I started would be a metaphor of a black hole versus another black hole. But that doesn't really work in my head. I keep imagining that it would just make a bigger black hole, and thus the theme wouldn't hold up the way I want it to.

The closest I can seem to come to this is something like Shrodinger's Cat but it seems a bit off the mark (by my understanding of it, anyway). I did well in school on Science, but my knowledge is hardly college level on that area. Any ideas or interesting theories that can be applied to this? I am drawing a blank.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 01:54:11 PM by Dallas »

Offline midnightblack

Re: 'Void + Void = No Void'
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2019, 08:31:23 PM »
Quote
I keep imagining that it would just make a bigger black hole, and thus the theme wouldn't hold up the way I want it to.

That is pretty much what is assumed to happen, though the phenomenon hasn't been observed, at least to my knowledge.

Quote
The closest I can seem to come to this is something like Shrodinger's Cat but it seems a bit off the mark (by my understanding of it, anyway).

Unfortunately, I don't have too much time for a detailed post right now. But I will say that Schrödinger's Cat is a rather silly thing to dwell over in this day and age, particularly if taken ad litteram. That paradox was brought up in the early days of quantum mechanics, in a time when the theory wasn't fully understood, and the person who designed it never got the brighter anyway in that regard. It is essentially completely flawed, as it applies to a macroscopic object (the cat), concepts that are no longer valid at the macroscopic scale. There's nothing paradoxical about the idea behind it, if one restrains to the domain where quantum mechanics is valid.

Offline Oniya

Re: 'Void + Void = No Void'
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2019, 03:07:53 AM »
Perhaps something where the two domains are each other's 'Void'?  Like the older theory of the Quasar as a 'white hole' that spewed out the end-product of what passed through a black hole.  This theory has been pretty much tossed out, but does encourage the possibility that if you could somehow avoid the spaghettification caused by the tidal forces of the black hole, you could emerge from the other side in 'another universe' (because of course that matter has to go somewhere.  To the denizens of the 'departure' side, the black hole would lead to 'the Void' - and in theory, there could be another black hole somewhere in the other universe that spewed back into the original.

Offline stormwyrm

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Re: 'Void + Void = No Void'
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2019, 08:47:04 AM »
That is pretty much what is assumed to happen, though the phenomenon hasn't been observed, at least to my knowledge.
It has been observed. That's basically what happened with the first gravitational wave that LIGO detected. It was the merger of two black holes into one bigger black hole.

And to return to Dallas's original question, I think one interesting way of treating it comes from mathematics, beginning calculus to be specific. Obviously 0×0 = 0. 0+0 = 0. 0-0 = 0. But what about 0/0? That's what's called an indeterminate form, and its value depends on how you got there. For instance, if you have x/x, as x approaches 0, it is 0/0, but in the limit, it approaches 1. But if it's x2/x, it approaches 0. With x/x2 though, it grows without bound, diverging to infinity as they say. 00 is a similar indeterminate form. Make of that what you will.  ;D

Offline DallasTopic starter

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Re: 'Void + Void = No Void'
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2019, 05:42:28 PM »
How is it that I can understand that... and risk having my brain implode on itself when trying my hand at Multiverse Theory?  ^-^

Perhaps something where the two domains are each other's 'Void'?  Like the older theory of the Quasar as a 'white hole' that spewed out the end-product of what passed through a black hole.  This theory has been pretty much tossed out, but does encourage the possibility that if you could somehow avoid the spaghettification caused by the tidal forces of the black hole, you could emerge from the other side in 'another universe' (because of course that matter has to go somewhere.  To the denizens of the 'departure' side, the black hole would lead to 'the Void' - and in theory, there could be another black hole somewhere in the other universe that spewed back into the original.

I do like entertaining this. Though I feel like, in order to make the science nod work, I would have to be ambiguous about the actual science part. ;D

Going back to Schrodinger's Cat... some fun uses of this have oddly worked to create some interesting stories. I am reminded of Hellsing Ultimate's case with Alucard and his 'past lives' (Dracula, Vlad the Impaler) when crossed with an actual physical manifestation of Schrodinger's cat. Humorous side note, TeamFourStar's Abridged take on it seems to explain it better than the official series did, from what I can remember.

Another interesting application of it is on Final Fantasy VIII's Squall... that is, if one believes in a certain popular fan-made speculation (see 'Squall Is Dead' theory). Though, I don't feel it quite adds up given the narrative and writer's later handwaved it off as untrue, but it is an interesting application as a literary device. Again, when ambiguous about the science part. However, I still have to understand what a given theme could be borrowing from (Theory of Relativity being applied to a "God creates X in Y days" while a planet could be billions of years old, Multiverse Theory being borrowed in [Insert Time Travel Story/Movie title here], etc.).

The problem with Void vs Void if one applies science to it is that it seems to contradict many things about a negative force when combined with another negative. Or perhaps I am just not thinking on it the right way. Whatever the case, even fudging it to a 'Positive + Negative = Balance' seems blurry unless I looked at it from a Math perspective as Stormwrym suggests (i.e., 1 + -1 = 0). But can Balance also end up being Nothing? This is where Neo & Agent Smith (The Matrix) come to mind.  As technically, these two were anomalies within their system.  :-\
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 05:50:08 PM by Dallas »

Offline GabeTheKid

Re: 'Void + Void = No Void'
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2019, 04:46:13 AM »
What you described sounds more like the relation between matter and antimatter. They are literal polar opposites to eachother and colliding them causes mutual annihilation.

Offline Tolvo

Re: 'Void + Void = No Void'
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2019, 06:11:05 PM »
A bit old now but if there is still an interest in this, you may wish to examine how these concepts can end up handled in Jainism, Hinduism, and Buddhism. Buddhism is quite noted for One Mind and No Mind. As well concepts of Vajra and bells in both Hinduism and Buddhism. Void/Chaos in cosmogony as well.