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Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 20782 times)

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Offline Orval Wintermute

Re: Brexit
« Reply #650 on: October 03, 2019, 09:41:44 AM »
Just when you think the tone of the debate can't get worse, a Tory MP has been accused of using the same words as the convicted terrorist and murderer of Jo Cox MP. This a week after Johnson dismissed threats of violence against female MP's as "humbug"

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/conservative-front-bencher-slammed-for-shouting-britain-first-in-commons/03/10/

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #651 on: October 04, 2019, 07:31:23 AM »
After a series of implacable defeats and a standoff both with the parliament and Brussels, BoJo may perhaps just have blinked on his key promise:

Quote from: Reuters
Anti-Brexit campaigners began legal action in Scottish courts on Friday to order him to comply with the Benn Act or have judges write to the EU on his behalf asking for the extension. The legal challenge also says if Johnson fails to comply, the courts could impose penalties “including fine and imprisonment”.

In submissions to the Scottish court, the government said that Johnson accepted that he was obliged to send a letter to the EU asking for a delay and that if an extension was granted, Britain would also agree to it.

“In the event that neither of the conditions set out ... is satisfied he will send a letter in the form set out in the schedule by no later than 19 October 2019,” said the document posted on Twitter by Jo Maugham, a lawyer involved in the case against Johnson.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-court-extension/uk-pm-johnson-will-ask-for-brexit-extension-if-no-deal-by-october-19-court-documents-idUSKBN1WJ1BR

Offline Orval Wintermute

Re: Brexit
« Reply #652 on: October 04, 2019, 08:18:14 AM »
So the question now becomes who is Johnson lying to?

He's said in public that he would rather "die in a ditch" than sent that letter. So is he lying to the public or lying to the courts? And possibly more importantly has he lied to Parliament?

Online Oniya

Re: Brexit
« Reply #653 on: October 06, 2019, 12:15:13 PM »
I found this in my feed today:  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/style/brenda-hale-brexit-brooch.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Upshot:  Brenda Hale, the judge who ruled against the suspension of Parliament, wore a large spider brooch as she gave the ruling, leading to speculation about whether she was sending a message.

(This isn't entirely unfounded, as Madeline Albright was known to use her choice in jewelry to send messages - like wearing a snake brooch after the Iraqi press called her a 'serpent.')

I'm particularly fond of the theory that she was making a veiled reference to the song 'Boris the Spider' by the Who.

video - no spiders pictured

Offline Orval Wintermute

Re: Brexit
« Reply #654 on: October 06, 2019, 12:40:50 PM »
There was also lots of interest about why she had two pairs of scissors on her desk during the hearing.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #655 on: October 06, 2019, 01:31:36 PM »
Macron tells Boris: "You have one week to get this plan into a useful shape, Monsieur!" :)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/06/macron-gives-boris-johnson-end-week-overhaul-brexit-plan

:)

Online Oniya

Re: Brexit
« Reply #656 on: October 06, 2019, 01:41:11 PM »
Out of curiosity - and I apologize if it's been mentioned before - does Northern Ireland tend towards 'Leave' or 'Remain'?  I understand the controversy about having to put up a 'hard border' around Northern Ireland, but I was wondering if Northern Ireland is being dragged into Brexit or not.

Offline Sara Nilsson


Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #658 on: October 06, 2019, 05:39:55 PM »

Despite that vote, only one Northern Ireland MP speaks against a no-deal Brexit in the House of Commons. That is the rather impressive independent Unionist, Sylvia Hermon. The Democratic Unionists are all for Brexit, while Sinn Fein boycott Parliament.

Meanwhile, the press are reporting, based on Cabinet leaks, that Boris Johnson will dare the Queen to sack him rather than resign, if it comes to that. This seems to be another example of the government making an utterly outrageous statement, from which they will (probably) back down.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2019/10/06/boris-johnson-will-dare-queen-sack-bid-deliver-brexit-10872313/amp/

Offline Sara Nilsson

Re: Brexit
« Reply #659 on: October 06, 2019, 06:20:49 PM »
I dont think he wants to resign, that will be like admitting he couldn't do it. But if he is sacked by the Queen then he can always go.. well I could have done the job but I was pushed out.,

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #660 on: October 08, 2019, 04:04:47 PM »
There was a truly awful tweet by the leave.eu campaign today. Hopefully, I have posted it in a way that will not add any more traffic to their site, but it is horrible in so many ways.

It came the day when Angela Merkel had a phone call with Johnson. Now, she is portrayed as a Nazi, and the Americans, Russians and others might also be surprised to know that they played no part in the two world wars.

Worlds fail me, sometimes.


https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/1181515644954714114?s=21

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #661 on: October 08, 2019, 04:35:00 PM »
There was a truly awful tweet by the leave.eu campaign today. Hopefully, I have posted it in a way that will not add any more traffic to their site, but it is horrible in so many ways.

It came the day when Angela Merkel had a phone call with Johnson. Now, she is portrayed as a Nazi, and the Americans, Russians and others might also be surprised to know that they played no part in the two world wars.

Worlds fail me, sometimes.


https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/1181515644954714114?s=21

Sheesh, that was a low water-mark indeed.  :-( Basil Fawlty meets Enoch Powell.

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #662 on: October 08, 2019, 04:46:51 PM »
I had forgotten, in my outrage, that the British government were threatening to withdraw cooperation on security matters with European countries who were not accommodating to their Brexit plans.

Sylvia Hermon, who I mentioned a few posts back, was very critical of a government who would be so casual about the Good Friday Agreement and the Northern Ireland peace process (my words).

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Brexit
« Reply #663 on: October 09, 2019, 07:39:43 AM »
I had forgotten, in my outrage, that the British government were threatening to withdraw cooperation on security matters with European countries who were not accommodating to their Brexit plans.

Sylvia Hermon, who I mentioned a few posts back, was very critical of a government who would be so casual about the Good Friday Agreement and the Northern Ireland peace process (my words).

I think if anyone honestly thinks that Northern Ireland will stay self contained if the Good Friday agreement goes tits up, they don’t understand anything about either side. I’m sure there are lots of goodies buried throughout the region waiting to be dug up, oiled and put to use. Brexit is the worse thing to happen to Northern Ireland in a long time.

Close the borders and I bet within days someone will be stabbed, shot or blown up.

Offline Humble Scribe

Re: Brexit
« Reply #664 on: October 09, 2019, 09:12:09 AM »
I had forgotten, in my outrage, that the British government were threatening to withdraw cooperation on security matters with European countries who were not accommodating to their Brexit plans.

Well, "a senior Downing Street source", i.e. Dominic Cummings, was. As powerful and Mandelsonian as he may be, I don't think even he counts as 'the government' yet. Today BJ apparently had a queue of Conservative MPs telling him not to stand on a 'no deal' manifesto at the next election. I genuinely suspect that a lot of the tough talk is just for show.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #665 on: October 09, 2019, 12:15:29 PM »
I think if anyone honestly thinks that Northern Ireland will stay self contained if the Good Friday agreement goes tits up, they don’t understand anything about either side. I’m sure there are lots of goodies buried throughout the region waiting to be dug up, oiled and put to use. Brexit is the worse thing to happen to Northern Ireland in a long time.

Close the borders and I bet within days someone will be stabbed, shot or blown up.

I doubt that features particularly highly on the Leavers thinking.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #666 on: October 09, 2019, 12:31:47 PM »
I doubt that features particularly highly on the Leavers thinking.


And it doesn't help that the NI government and regional parliament have been out of function for almost the entire time since the referendum...  ::)

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #667 on: October 09, 2019, 01:23:32 PM »
Well, "a senior Downing Street source", i.e. Dominic Cummings, was. As powerful and Mandelsonian as he may be, I don't think even he counts as 'the government' yet. Today BJ apparently had a queue of Conservative MPs telling him not to stand on a 'no deal' manifesto at the next election. I genuinely suspect that a lot of the tough talk is just for show.
That is fair comment as there do seem to be two wings of the government with some Cabinet members supposedly considering or threatening resignation over this. However, Johnson does seem to be following Cummings's plan, even when it goes wrong eg the opposition not falling into his trap by refusing to call for an election, or withdrawing from numerous MPs whom he expected to fall into line following his threats.

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #668 on: October 09, 2019, 02:15:05 PM »
Sheesh, that was a low water-mark indeed.  :-( Basil Fawlty meets Enoch Powell.
Leave.eu apologised and withdrew the Angela Merkel tweet today, but only after it had been retweeted and commented about for the best part of 24 hours.

Offline Orval Wintermute

Re: Brexit
« Reply #669 on: October 09, 2019, 03:50:16 PM »
The comments from Banks and co are so much "we're sorry" but "we're sorry we got caught"

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #670 on: Yesterday at 04:05:48 PM »
This thread has been quiet for a few days, but, although details are being deliberately kept vague and confidential (which is probably why it's so quiet), there does appear to be the possibility of a deal, after Boris Johnson's discussions with Leo Varadkar of the Republic of Ireland, although progress is slow.
I think the idea is that Northern Ireland but would  be in the single market, but would obey the single market rules, while, in some sleight of hand, still remaining part of the United Kingdom market.

The Democratic Unionist Party don't seem to object, perhaps because as Johnson has lost his majority anyway, he doesn't rely on them, although the more mainstream Ulster Unionists, who have lost all their parliamentary seats, have done, no doubt in a bid to outflank the DUP and regain their relevance.

It still needs to be agreed by the EU, and to get through Parliament, but who knows - I suspect it might give Boris Johnson a reason for requesting an extension, despite his do or die rhetoric.

It was the Queen's speech today. All very pointless as the government has no majority to deliver their grandiose plans, although a governmeny has the right and duty to announce their attentions. Also, I can't help noticing that the 93 year old queen, wearing a diadem rather than the heavy crown, did seem noticeably frailer.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #671 on: Yesterday at 04:25:26 PM »
It was the Queen's speech today. All very pointless as the government has no majority to deliver their grandiose plans, although a governmeny has the right and duty to announce their attentions. Also, I can't help noticing that the 93 year old queen, wearing a diadem rather than the heavy crown, did seem noticeably frailer.

The uphevaval, uncertainty and political bickering of the last year must have taken a toll on her, with a crescendo during the last two months. Many people have already dubbed this particular opening a ridiculous piece of cheap political theatre, with the Queen's Speech (99% pre-written, as everybody knows, by Boris and his henchmen) particularly stupid now that the government has no power to achieve any of what it says it will. "Seeing stuff like this on tv makes Monty Python look like Panorama" someone commented on twitter, referring to the BBC's flagship investigative journalism show. :)

Polly Toynbee smashes the whole pageantry and the abuse of the solemn occasion (and the monarch) to pieces in the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/14/sham-queens-speech-end-boris-johnson-labour

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #672 on: Yesterday at 04:58:41 PM »
I had forgotten to mention that another way a deal may get through parliament is if it linked to a confirmatory referendum to approve the deal. Watching Labour's spokesman Barry Gardiner on a news programme as I type this, though, makes this compromise unlikely, although other members of his party disagree.

With regard to the Queen, it's  ironic that it's the two 'posh' Old Etonian recent Prime Ministers Cameron and Johnson who have caused her embarrassment by involving her in politics.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #673 on: Yesterday at 05:06:22 PM »
I had forgotten to mention that another way a deal may get through parliament is if it linked to a confirmatory referendum to approve the deal. Watching Labour's spokesman Barry Gardiner on a news programme as I type this, though, makes this compromise unlikely, although other members of his party disagree.

With regard to the Queen, it's  ironic that it's the two 'posh' Old Etonian recent Prime Ministers Cameron and Johnson who have caused her embarrassment by involving her in politics.

I was watching the speech on an upload to Youtube by The Sun - there are several different uploads of course, from various news outlets. Anyway, the commenting field for that one is so packed with morons it's a riot. 99.9% hard Brexiteers and many of them seem to think the speech does represent the Queen's personal wishes  and beliefs, and that she is willingly and enthusiastically getting behind Boris. "Once we're out of the clutches of the EU and are free, she will get to rule again!" one deuce wrote. :D

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #674 on: Yesterday at 05:06:53 PM »
Oops! I have just spotted a typo on my earlier post which made it nonsensical. I probably should have said customs union rather than single market, too, in order to be more accurate.

I should have written that the plan seemed to be that Northern Ireland should NOT be in the customs union with the EU, but would obey the customs union rules.