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Author Topic: Religion and patriotism  (Read 190 times)

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Offline BeorningTopic starter

Religion and patriotism
« on: November 14, 2017, 10:31:03 AM »
There's something I'm wondering about: is religion so strongly tied to patriotism in other countries as it is here in Poland?

Back here, the Catholic Church (which is the main religious denomination here) is tied to patriotism very strongly. For example, here's an excerpt from a prayer taken from one textbook for religion lessons in schools:

"God, you have created me from Polish parents and to live on Polish land. The heritage of my Nation shaped my thoughts, the bread of Polish soil nourished my body. I cannot love Your world without loving my Homeland the strongest. So please, send Your blessing onto Poland."

Of course, it's one example from one book - but from my Catholic days, I remember this general notion that it was mu duty as a Christian / Catholic to love Poland and be a Polish patriot. Is this kind of religious teaching found in other countries, or is this something unique to Poland?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Religion and patriotism
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 10:52:29 AM »
American money has 'In God We Trust' and 'One Nation Under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance, but the specific God/religion goes unstated. We do have a vocal minority that connects being American with being Christian, though.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: Religion and patriotism
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 10:55:43 AM »
How big of minority is it? Is this kind of teaching present in many churches?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Religion and patriotism
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 11:01:13 AM »
No idea on exact numbers, and it's not really specific to a particular church that I can point to, or even really party of the church doctrine itself. You seem to be talking about a religious duty to be patriotic, here it's generally seen as a patriotic thing to be religious among that minority.

Offline Lustful Bride

Re: Religion and patriotism
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 11:22:07 AM »
I look at religion the same way I look at my patriotism. They are separate things that can be good but easily lend themselves stop abuse.

To be a patriot is to love your country even when it is wrong and to recognize when it is in the wrong.

To be a nationalist is to love your country because it is never wrong. And anyone who says otherwise is the enemy.

Same applies to religion between believers and extremists.

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Religion and patriotism
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 02:59:56 PM »
Lustful makes a good point.

Here in Canada, we have the words "God keep our land", but there's a national discussion right now on changing the words, both from "In all our sons' command" to "In all of our command" and also, "God keep our land" to "We keep our land". Here, the appeal to Christianity was from a time when a homogenous demographic found that being Christian on some level was the default value, since professing anything different was cause to ostracize one from society. While there are some who will cross the concepts, such as the people I've heard talking about "Taking our country back for God and good Christian values", they are certainly our extremists and in an extremely minority position.

Offline Oniya

Re: Religion and patriotism
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 03:48:04 PM »
American money has 'In God We Trust' and 'One Nation Under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance, but the specific God/religion goes unstated. We do have a vocal minority that connects being American with being Christian, though.

Small point of fact - those two specific instances of 'God' were introduced in the 1950's.  There's an archival document that shows the original Pledge (written by socialist Francis Bellamy) did not contain 'under God'.  There are verses (that are rarely sung) of the National Anthem that contain references to God, which I believe are in Key's original, and the 'Battle Hymn of the Republic' contains numerous Biblical references (well, being a hymn, that would be expected.)

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Religion and patriotism
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 03:57:31 PM »
Every time I hear the words "Battle Hymn of the Republic", I always think of some Star Wars-esque sci-fi fandom version of patriotism.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Religion and patriotism
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 05:17:41 PM »
Small point of fact - those two specific instances of 'God' were introduced in the 1950's.  There's an archival document that shows the original Pledge (written by socialist Francis Bellamy) did not contain 'under God'.  There are verses (that are rarely sung) of the National Anthem that contain references to God, which I believe are in Key's original, and the 'Battle Hymn of the Republic' contains numerous Biblical references (well, being a hymn, that would be expected.)

Indeed. They were proof of our opposition to Godless Red Communism.