Trump

[legomaster00156]

I think there was a misunderstanding, in that she assumed you meant that they were forced into the firefighting.

[Tolvo]

I don't know that it's really a fair reading considering how much I constantly criticize Trump that I'd be arguing he was right about this? I've been pretty highly critical of him, and I even said that I think he isn't making actual criticisms and is just being a dick. On top of also claiming I did no research when she didn't even read the article she posted which raises my points and others, like about how the program uses child labor, how six people have died in recent weeks, that the ACLU is concerned they might be coerced, that a politician called it Slave Labor, that it doesn't lead to actual jobs after sentences are served, as well as the pay of 1 dollar an hour while fighting fires. That article seems to really agree with me and is more critical than I was being.

But in case there is any further misunderstanding I don't think Trump was right at all, I don't think he actually knows anything about this. If he did, the criticisms of it are mostly things he actually agrees with(I don't think Trump is gonna suddenly come out against Prison Labor, the Prison System, Low Wages, etc).

[Iniquitous]

I don't know that it's really a fair reading considering how much I constantly criticize Trump that I'd be arguing he was right about this? I've been pretty highly critical of him, and I even said that I think he isn't making actual criticisms and is just being a dick. On top of also claiming I did no research when she didn't even read the article she posted which raises my points and others, like about how the program uses child labor, how six people have died in recent weeks, that the ACLU is concerned they might be coerced, that a politician called it Slave Labor, that it doesn't lead to actual jobs after sentences are served, as well as the pay of 1 dollar an hour while fighting fires. That article seems to really agree with me and is more critical than I was being.

But in case there is any further misunderstanding I don't think Trump was right at all, I don't think he actually knows anything about this. If he did, the criticisms of it are mostly things he actually agrees with(I don't think Trump is gonna suddenly come out against Prison Labor, the Prison System, Low Wages, etc).

Just because, in the past, you have been vocal about your dislike of trump doesn't mean every single thing you type should be understood. And, for the record, I don't read every single thing you post. I don't read every single thing -anyone- on this site posts. So, to expect me to know your snark and how you mean something, and to be expect me to read your every post, is flat ridiculous.

Simple solution.  Don't expect strangers to understand what you mean when you are being snarky... cause people are going to not understand.  And for the record,  I don't see anything wrong with inmates choosing to volunteer to fight fires as a way to make a little cash, shorten their sentences, and contribute to the society they want to eventually rejoin.  I don't see it as slave labor - they VOLUNTEER - and until it is proven without a doubt that they are coerced into this, I will continue to believe these people are choosing to do this of their own free will.

[Tolvo]

I don't expect everyone to read everything I post, that'd definitely be unreasonable. But when I'd just done it in the thread and was currently calling him a dick I don't think it's entirely fair to assume that I am defending him.

I disagree about that system quite heavily frankly, but my point was that there are actual criticisms and that the article does bring up a lot of them. I'm not saying you have to agree with me.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/11/trump-paris-trip-nationalism-snub-983170

Also, I do have criticisms of Macron and Merkel(They do good things too) but I'm really glad to see them and others talking about nationalism and are against it. Also I need to find the footage from the meeting with Putin during this. It looks a little weird frankly, like either it had a big impact on him or he was getting really jittery.

https://twitter.com/StollmeyerEU/status/1061584529251536896

[gaggedLouise]

Trump returned home from the conmemorative gathering in France where he had been at his grumpiest and least charming, and had effectively opted out from any meaningful conversations about world peace and nationalism in the context of the centenary, with all the other leaders and top people attending in Paris.

So, what does Donny do? Once he's home he grabs his iphone and unleashes a flood of jingoistic insults at Macron and his country, on the well-known redneck theme that "France has never won a war, the French are a bunch of effete cheese-and-frogs-eating sycophants who can always easily be made to bend for a tyrant until the US steps in and shkes things up". According to Trump, France was pretty much defeated by Germany in WW1 until the Yankees came along and turned the game over, and in WW2 the French gave in too and the Americans saved Europe (implied as) almost single-handedly. Now they want an EU army, Ho-ho-Ho! says Trump, playing to his fucked up home audience.

Trump playing the fake tough guy here, and getting some scathing lessons from people much more knowledgeable about history: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1062311785787744256

[Tolvo]

I don't think he intended this, but in his analogy he is comparing the USA to the Kaiser and the Third Reich. Not a very, complementary thing to say.

Also this is actually a bit old but people are talking about it again so I thought I'd remind everyone of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9qv8RSreIM

That is a real product. It recently appeared during Fox news in certain broadcasting areas during ad break and so people are talking about it more. Boy does it come off like something from the Onion.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cnn-sues-president-trump-aides-removal-jim-acostas/story?id=59161653

So CNN is suing the White House. Ironically enough, even Trump has said now that suspending Acosta's pass wasn't right.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/us/politics/trump-kirstjen-nielsen-homeland-security-john-kelly.html

And it looks like Trump may be planning to get rid of the people in his staff that stop him from taking even more extreme measures.

[gaggedLouise]

I don't think he intended this, but in his analogy he is comparing the USA to the Kaiser and the Third Reich. Not a very, complementary thing to say.

Yes, and he's conveniently forgetting 1) that France did some very active heavy lifting when it came to getting the British army out of the thirteen colonies - ships, guns, trained soldiers, money credits and military expertise. Actually almost a lend-lease thing, some of it, except the US never had to pay anything back due to the French revolution.

2) the Normandy invasion wouldn't have been anything like the success it was without the support, at least two years in advance, of the French resistance - information on the German defence systems, help with carrying out sabotage activities, intelligence work, returning downed allied airmen: all of it behind the lines and by people who were mostly civilians, not seasoned military men.

[Tolvo]

I wonder how Trump feels about the French Resistance. I guess they were just evil Antifa or something.

[The Lovely Tsaritsa]

Yes, and he's conveniently forgetting 1) that France did some very active heavy lifting when it came to getting the British army out of the thirteen colonies - ships, guns, trained soldiers, money credits and military expertise. Actually almost a lend-lease thing, some of it, except the US never had to pay anything back due to the French revolution.

2) the Normandy invasion wouldn't have been anything like the success it was without the support, at least two years in advance, of the French resistance - information on the German defence systems, help with carrying out sabotage activities, intelligence work, returning downed allied airmen: all of it behind the lines and by people who were mostly civilians, not seasoned military men.

He doesn’t conveniently forget. He’s just moron.

[Oniya]

He doesn’t conveniently forget. He’s just moron.

Quoted for truth.  I believe he literally does not know the history he's trying to exploit.

[Tolvo]

I don't know that he forgets, he does own some history books for instance.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-adolf-hitler-books-bedside-cabinet-ex-wife-ivana-trump-vanity-fair-1990-a7639041.html

Not to be confused with the amusing New Yorker comedy article about this concept.

[Oniya]

I don't know that he forgets, he does own some history books for instance.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-adolf-hitler-books-bedside-cabinet-ex-wife-ivana-trump-vanity-fair-1990-a7639041.html

Not to be confused with the amusing New Yorker comedy article about this concept.

I have copies of The Hunger Games, the Book of Mormon, and Virginia Hospitality.  Doesn't mean I've opened them. 

[Tolvo]

Fair I meant it as more of a jab. Technically there is nothing wrong with owning a book by Hitler, it can be helpful in just studying history or what not to do(Or if you are a bad person what to do). It is a bit questionable given Trump's views and supporters and such, but still he might just own it. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd at least find it useful for understanding how to do propaganda. I honestly don't know if he really reads much of anything, even his own books he's sold(Written by someone else).

Actually what amuses me is his old video game Trump's Real Estate Tycoon. He voiced himself in the game, and the game actually in the narrative calls him a mobster with ties to the mafia who has to cheat to win. I don't know that he quite played the finished product or had anyone check it for him.

[gaggedLouise]

I don't know that he forgets, he does own some history books for instance.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-adolf-hitler-books-bedside-cabinet-ex-wife-ivana-trump-vanity-fair-1990-a7639041.html

Not to be confused with the amusing New Yorker comedy article about this concept.

Well, my mum owns a copy of Conversations with Hitler by Hermann Rauschning, a 1940 "Hitler on Hitler" book, purporting to show Hitler speaking candidly between four eyes about his long-term aims and ideas during his first years in power (some scholars today think the convos were mostly made up by Rauschning). She loathes Fascism and xenophobia of any kind. So sometimes, owning a book of that kind is a "know your enemy" thing. :)

[Tolvo]

To be fair a lot of people own books by horrible people. Though Hitler's books are a bit more, open sleeve on that hatred. Lots of people own books on Kant's views on the philosophy of morality and those are taught a lot in philosophy classes. He also very infamously believe black people and native americans were sub humans and all people were born white and that skin color comes from moral corruption. Which seems really easily disprovable but you know, weird racists gonna do what they do. But also his philosophies still have a big impact and he had a lot of other ideas that were actually good for framing understandings of things. Just you know, keep in mind when he talks about equality he means just for white men.

[Vekseid]

Trump skipped out on visiting Arlington, but the French made sure to:

https://twitter.com/franceintheus/status/1062066314448117760

[Tolvo]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-blames-secret-service-canceled-visit-wwi/story?id=59160398

Apparently according to him it was the Secret Service who decided NO.

But then Sarah Sanders said it was Trump's decision to not disrupt traffic.

So I dunno, it'd actually not be that unreasonable a decision but then why lie about it and Trump is not the most reasonable of guys. Plus even if reasonable it would still look really bad to not go given how much people respect fallen soldiers and remembering veterans. Especially when he has a history of not showing any real support for veterans other than lip service.

Also his remark about wine is really weird because wouldn't it basically mean that our wine is worse than French wine if everybody wants French wine but not American wine and French wine is more expensive?

[TheGlyphstone]

Wine is for liberal sissies, REAL MEN! ^TM drink BEER?

[Tolvo]

I wonder if maybe it was him being pissed about American companies not being allowed to call Sparkling Wine Champagne and sell it as such to the EU and in the EU because of the law about how it has to be made in Champagne to use that label.

[gaggedLouise]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-blames-secret-service-canceled-visit-wwi/story?id=59160398

Also his remark about wine is really weird because wouldn't it basically mean that our wine is worse than French wine if everybody wants French wine but not American wine and French wine is more expensive?

Well, Trump is the guy who posed with a KFC meal on board bis campaign plane, back in 2016, complete with silver cutlery. No doubt the KFC plate was whisked away as soon as the photo had been taken, but he likes to promote himself as a man who loves inexpensive, chummy and all-American foods. I wouldn't be surprised if he's been selling off some of the White House wine cellar to make place for U.S. beer and soda. :)

Wine is for liberal sissies, REAL MEN! ^TM drink BEER?

Exactly!

[Tolvo]

I dunno, he seems to eat a mixture of like fast food but also overly expensive stuff. But I would not call him a man with taste judging by his alcohol and steak that he sells.

Like I don't think you gotta go to a fancy French restaurant or that you have no taste if you eat fast food. But he seems like he gives really mixed messages, and likes to just buy expensive things he doesn't have any real understanding of but just buys it because it must be good because its expensive.

His whole image of him as an every man is weird and as a man of the people when he lived in a tower with his name on it with gold thrown everywhere in his suite.

[TheGlyphstone]

It appeals to his base. For all his manifold and nearly limitless faults, Donald Trump does have one well-developed and practiced skill sets - promoting his brand, honed through business and his reality TV show. We're basically on the set of The Apprentice: White House, and Donald is playing to his audience for ratings.

[Tolvo]

I mean, does the business end count? Because he's terrible at business given how often he just refuses to keep his end of contracts and settles outside of court because he can't win the cases.

[gaggedLouise]

I dunno, he seems to eat a mixture of like fast food but also overly expensive stuff. But I would not call him a man with taste judging by his alcohol and steak that he sells.

The ABC article says that "President Trump does not drink alcohol himself". I never heard that claim before, and it sounds really odd that he would not be drinking beer or whiskey - manly stuff, that is. But red wine, no.

To quote those enigmatic lyrics:

So I said to the Captain, "Please bring me my wine".
He said, "We haven't had that spirit here since 1969!"

His whole image of him as an every man is weird and as a man of the people when he lived in a tower with his name on it with gold thrown everywhere in his suite.

Agree, lady!

[TheGlyphstone]

I mean, does the business end count? Because he's terrible at business given how often he just refuses to keep his end of contracts and settles outside of court because he can't win the cases.

And yet he keeps being able to start new businesses and convince people to sign contracts with him despite that proven track record - that's his salesmanship at work. He just can't deliver on what he promises, whether it's in business or politics.